***United States Air Force thread pt. 4 Still Droppin bombs on your a$$***SRS

[Baseballer]

Sup brahs? Been at Nellis for the past 3 weeks for red flag. Pilots flew the hell out of the jets, not a single person In my squadron said they've worked this many hours on a tdy in their career lol. Heading to tyndall soon, anybody out that way?

[F2.]

you back from happy valley?

yea I made it back with my sanity in hand lol. it wasn't near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but damn sure not a fun point in my life.

I can't wait to get out of Fairchild!

[BrbBowflexing]

Sup brahs? Been at Nellis for the past 3 weeks for red flag. Pilots flew the hell out of the jets, not a single person In my squadron said they've worked this many hours on a tdy in their career lol. Heading to tyndall soon, anybody out that way?

my good buddy is out there right now. he was gloating around the shop a good month before he left because he was going to vegas. I hope he's working his ass off in the heat lol

[Kooobe]

I am graduating from college next May. I have always wanted to join the military (especially the air force), but my parents wanted me to go to college first, offering to pay for it. During college I took 8 semesters of Arabic and I am also a native speaker of Persian/Farsi.

With my language background, how possible is it for me to get a job as a linguist in the Air Force? Since it's an intel position I'd imagine it's extremely selective. Regardless, I would just like to enlist in the Air Force. I believe I would be happy with some of the more common jobs (at least as far as I know) like Air Traffic Control or Loadmaster.

Like I said, I am graduating next May, but I want to start talking to a recruiter as early as this summer so I can line things up. If you guys have any advice regarding the recruitment process, I'd highly appreciate that.

[F2.]

I am graduating from college next May. I have always wanted to join the military (especially the air force), but my parents wanted me to go to college first, offering to pay for it. During college I took 8 semesters of Arabic and I am also a native speaker of Persian/Farsi.

With my language background, how possible is it for me to get a job as a linguist in the Air Force? Since it's an intel position I'd imagine it's extremely selective. Regardless, I would just like to enlist in the Air Force. I believe I would be happy with some of the more common jobs (at least as far as I know) like Air Traffic Control or Loadmaster.

Like I said, I am graduating next May, but I want to start talking to a recruiter as early as this summer so I can line things up. If you guys have any advice regarding the recruitment process, I'd highly appreciate that.

airborne linguist is on the critically manned list brah. you'll need to go take the DLAB and get a passing score.

not sure about ATC, but loadmaster is not a common job. if you can get a contract do it though! I have yet to meet a load with anything bad to say about it(I'm currently in tech school for load), and I know there is atleast 1 fully qualified load+ another guy in the pipeline right now in the thread. so, if you have any specific questions ask, cause one of us will know


my advice, go speak with your recruiter now. the sooner you start the process the longer he may let you wait around for a good contract

[gl0beTr0tter]

airborne linguist is on the critically manned list brah. you'll need to go take the DLAB and get a passing score.

not sure about ATC, but loadmaster is not a common job. if you can get a contract do it though! I have yet to meet a load with anything bad to say about it(I'm currently in tech school for load), and I know there is atleast 1 fully qualified load+ another guy in the pipeline right now in the thread. so, if you have any specific questions ask, cause one of us will know


my advice, go speak with your recruiter now. the sooner you start the process the longer he may let you wait around for a good contract

I'm a load. Been flying for about a year. Do you know your airframe yet?

[ChrisHansenDatelineNBC]

If I were to enlist, would there be any benefit to enlisting with an associates as opposed to being one semester away from an associates? I have enough credits to go in as e3 as is. Also I think I narrowed it down to these two options" EOD, and SERE. Anyone have input on either?

[F2.]

I'm a load. Been flying for about a year. Do you know your airframe yet?

c17's at mcguire. can't wait til I start flying


anyone here at/know about McGuire's dorms? particularly, will I finally be trusted to come home and have a couple beers in the privacy of my dorm, or will I still not be trusted?

[abstracthomie]

If I were to enlist, would there be any benefit to enlisting with an associates as opposed to being one semester away from an associates? I have enough credits to go in as e3 as is. Also I think I narrowed it down to these two options" EOD, and SERE. Anyone have input on either?

No real benefit, you can finish up once you are in for free with tuition assistance. I'm EOD, love the job and get to do pretty awesome ****. What would you like to know? PM me if you'd like.

[liammac]

I'm a load. Been flying for about a year. Do you know your airframe yet?

C-17 load here, ill see you when I get to McChord.

[Muddschell]

Air Force's newest 2d Lt checking in

[ChrisHansenDatelineNBC]

No real benefit, you can finish up once you are in for free with tuition assistance. I'm EOD, love the job and get to do pretty awesome ****. What would you like to know? PM me if you'd like.

Location: Travis

I live a couple miles down in vv, u mirin?

obviously a bomb callout is rare, so what do you do on a shift, other than maintain/check equipment? watch tv? fap?
and how are shifts structured? are you like FF's with 24 hour shifts and so many off?
is the environment anyway stressful? obviously eglin is stressful as fuuark, and the bombs can make it stressful, but I mean thedaily environment

thanks for any help EOD bro

[abstracthomie]

Location: Travis

I live a couple miles down in vv, u mirin?

obviously a bomb callout is rare, so what do you do on a shift, other than maintain/check equipment? watch tv? fap?
and how are shifts structured? are you like FF's with 24 hour shifts and so many off?
is the environment anyway stressful? obviously eglin is stressful as fuuark, and the bombs can make it stressful, but I mean thedaily environment

thanks for any help EOD bro

At least at Travis, we get a good amount of calls to the local area which spans out to SF, Santa Cruz, etc. Cops always try to get us to respond to pipe bombs and random things like that, we do A LOT of ordnance pick ups, mostly washed up flares, old canon balls, grenades and stuff all around the area.

Aside from calls, we do a lot of training either at home or wherever with different organizations, be it the FBI, local police bomb squads. We are pretty busy sending people around the world to support the secret service, wherever the president, vp or other foreign dignitary may be you'll have a few EOD teams working (fun stuff, get paid extra to travel and barely work and interesting to see how the secret service and all the orgs work). We go to lots of different TDY's for training all over the place. There's a lot of cool things to the job and tons of perks that other career fields don't get.

Shifts are pretty normal and consistent with most shops all over, we work from 830-4ish Mon-Fri and we pull standby once a month where you are always on call.

Most guys have really ALPHA attitudes and can easily deal with stressful situations. But day to day, I would say I have THE MOST chill job. Almost all shops are really relaxed and we usually all just **** around a lot and generally, the rest of the base just leaves us alone. Training is difficult, but definitely worth it.

[gl0beTr0tter]

c17's at mcguire. can't wait til I start flying


anyone here at/know about McGuire's dorms? particularly, will I finally be trusted to come home and have a couple beers in the privacy of my dorm, or will I still not be trusted?

As long as you're of age they won't bother you.

C-17 load here, ill see you when I get to McChord.

You know your squadron?

[hindes204]

c17's at mcguire. can't wait til I start flying


anyone here at/know about McGuire's dorms? particularly, will I finally be trusted to come home and have a couple beers in the privacy of my dorm, or will I still not be trusted?

Here at Travis they have dry dorms...no alcohol allowed whatsoever, regardless of age. Knew a tech sgt, 35 years old, had to live in the dorms while he waited on his wife's paperwork to be cleared from overseas......he wasn't allowed alcohol in his room either

[liammac]

As long as you're of age they won't bother you.



You know your squadron?

10th AS

[WeDoPullups]

Air Force's newest 2d Lt checking in

welcome....not too many officers ITT...I'm a year in

[ChrisHansenDatelineNBC]

At least at Travis, we get a good amount of calls to the local area which spans out to SF, Santa Cruz, etc. Cops always try to get us to respond to pipe bombs and random things like that, we do A LOT of ordnance pick ups, mostly washed up flares, old canon balls, grenades and stuff all around the area.

Yeah I heard travis is one of the best bases with assisting local agencies

Aside from calls, we do a lot of training either at home or wherever with different organizations, be it the FBI, local police bomb squads. We are pretty busy sending people around the world to support the secret service, wherever the president, vp or other foreign dignitary may be you'll have a few EOD teams working (fun stuff, get paid extra to travel and barely work and interesting to see how the secret service and all the orgs work). We go to lots of different TDY's for training all over the place. There's a lot of cool things to the job and tons of perks that other career fields don't get.

Shifts are pretty normal and consistent with most shops all over, we work from 830-4ish Mon-Fri and we pull standby once a month where you are always on call.

Most guys have really ALPHA attitudes and can easily deal with stressful situations. But day to day, I would say I have THE MOST chill job. Almost all shops are really relaxed and we usually all just **** around a lot and generally, the rest of the base just leaves us alone. Training is difficult, but definitely worth it.

thanks for your help bro. really does sound interesting

[ScivationLead]

Air Force's newest 2d Lt checking in

Congratulations! Let me know if you have questions about your training or choosing an airframe.

[F2.]

As long as you're of age they won't bother you.

hopefully this

Here at Travis they have dry dorms...no alcohol allowed whatsoever, regardless of age. Knew a tech sgt, 35 years old, had to live in the dorms while he waited on his wife's paperwork to be cleared from overseas......he wasn't allowed alcohol in his room either

I'd be sad panda if it was this, then I'd shortly there after get over it though

[derek_jeter]

hopefully this



I'd be sad panda if it was this, then I'd shortly there after get over it though

Only dry dorms I've heard of are Elmendorf, Eielson, and from what I just learned, Travis.

[iccyman001]

Sup broskis

[epicknight7]

Hey guys,

I'm thinking about enlisting in the AF but was wondering how common it is these days to enlist with a degree. I finished college last Fall '10 with a degree in General Biology (3.7gpa). Anyways, I've done some research and the following specialties are appealing to me because they somewhat relate to my educational background:

1. Medical Laboratory Specialist
2. Histopathology
3. Public Health Specialist
4. Bioenvironmental Engineering
5. Cytotechnology

I'm aware of OTS, but honestly I don't think my degree is "technical" enough and I don't really have leadership experience (but I do have work/volunteer experience on my resume dating back at least 8 years if that means anything). Anyways, at 25 years old I feel like time is running out for me since the age limit to enlist is 27 for the Air Force (and Coast Guard, another branch I am considering). I'm aware the process takes months on end too so I can't afford to waste anymore time.

My prime motivations right now for considering this are to "kill two birds with one stone": 1) get the honor/privilege of serving my country (like my dad did), and 2) make use of my degree by pursuing one of the above-listed job programs.

Other motivators are financial assistance for possible grad school, I grew up as a military-dependent, gain direction/purpose in my life, camaraderie, travel the world, learn valuable/transferable skills.

I'm hoping to make a career out of this (i.e. "lifer"; not sure if that's considered derogatory these days but my bad if it is) so if anyone with similar experiences can share some insight/advice, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks and thank you everyone for your service

Cheers

[iccyman001]

Hey guys,

I'm thinking about enlisting in the AF but was wondering how common it is these days to enlist with a degree. I finished college last Fall '10 with a degree in General Biology (3.7gpa). Anyways, I've done some research and the following specialties are appealing to me because they somewhat relate to my educational background:

1. Medical Laboratory Specialist
2. Histopathology
3. Public Health Specialist
4. Bioenvironmental Engineering
5. Cytotechnology

I'm aware of OTS, but honestly I don't think my degree is "technical" enough and I don't really have leadership experience (but I do have work/volunteer experience on my resume dating back at least 8 years if that means anything). Anyways, at 25 years old I feel like time is running out for me since the age limit to enlist is 27 for the Air Force (and Coast Guard, another branch I am considering). I'm aware the process takes months on end too so I can't afford to waste anymore time.

My prime motivations right now for considering this are to "kill two birds with one stone": 1) get the honor/privilege of serving my country (like my dad did), and 2) make use of my degree by pursuing one of the above-listed job programs.

Other motivators are financial assistance for possible grad school, I grew up as a military-dependent, gain direction/purpose in my life, camaraderie, travel the world, learn valuable/transferable skills.

I'm hoping to make a career out of this (i.e. "lifer"; not sure if that's considered derogatory these days but my bad if it is) so if anyone with similar experiences can share some insight/advice, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks and thank you everyone for your service

Cheers

I know many people who have enlisted with degrees and it's alot more common than you think. With that being said I don't think there is one person in here who will tell you NOT to go in comissioned. I could go on forever how it's better than being enlisted in ways that matter. If you want to be a lifer then it's insane not to go in commisioned.

If you joined right now (enlisted) you would come in as an E3: Starting base pay:1787$
Coming in commisioned you will start as an O1: Starting base pay: 2876$

Now fast forward we will say 5 years. If you are a semi-intelligent person in the enlisted work, you will be an E5 now. Base pay:2530$
5 years as an officer: O3: 5117$


Now let me show you something silly.

Let's say you are a boss in the enlisted work and you make E9..... E9 at 20 years: 5618$

Now let's say you are dumb and don't make any rank past O3:6240$............

Now that's just saying you don't make additional rank in 15 years in the O world.... YOU ARE STILL MAKING MORE than someone who was a boss in the E world.

It's financially irresponsible not to go O.

Now, money isn't everything.....

You said "I don't really have leadership experience ". How many commsioned officers do you honestly think come in with this type of skill. It's something that is learned from other great leaders. Depending on the career field you go into you will have always be paired up with higher ups. The first few years will be absorbition time for you. TAKE IT ALL IN AND LEARN.

I work in the maintenance work. I see new LTs come in all the time. You know who always turn out the best? The ones who learn from the enlisted leaders they are paired up with. Normally you will see a LT come in and work right next to a E7 or above. Those guys have close to 20 years experience in the military.... they can help you go along way.

[iccyman001]

Cheers

I could go on forever with reasons you should come in commissoned, but if you are set on enlisting, then I am here for you as well.

I absolutely love the military and everything about it. I planned on coming in for 6 years then getting out and moving onto other things. Then I fell in love and they will have to kick me out when it's time to retire

So if you really want to go enlisted then let us know. Some of those job choices you posted pay off BIG TIME once you get out. Bioenviormental Engineering is one that really stands out. I know people who have left the military and walked on to 80k a year jobs because of BIO.

[epicknight7]

I could go on forever with reasons you should come in commissoned, but if you are set on enlisting, then I am here for you as well.

I absolutely love the military and everything about it. I planned on coming in for 6 years then getting out and moving onto other things. Then I fell in love and they will have to kick me out when it's time to retire

So if you really want to go enlisted then let us know. Some of those job choices you posted pay off BIG TIME once you get out. Bioenviormental Engineering is one that really stands out. I know people who have left the military and walked on to 80k a year jobs because of BIO.

Thanks iccyman001 for the reply, I really appreciate it.

It seems that the number one motivating factor to seek a commission is financially-related (among other perks). Having lots of money is nice, but honestly I've always been a simple/frugal person to begin with so it's hard to get motivated if that's the only main incentive of becoming an officer. I guess I'm sounding naive at this point and lack foresight, but I'm trying to be realistic here given my options (especially since time is not on my side).

To elaborate on my situation I have been in talks with a Navy Officer recruiter (since last August, so it's been about a year now) for a nuclear submarine slot (the only opening available, by the way), but I've reached a stalling point in the process in trying to get a MEPS appointment. I reached my target weight (for my height) last March/April and have been trying to get a MEPS appointment ever since. I've done everything my recruiter has told me to do so I think the ball is in his court. Every time I try to contact him about a possible MEPS appointment, he says he'll "try" to set one up for me but there's never a follow-up. I try to call him back, but he never answers and his voicemail inbox is full. Emailing is a lost cause too. He'll eventually pick up and then we talk about MEPS again. The cycle continues. I get the impression that my recruiter thinks I don't have anymore more options left so he might be trying to milk me or something, placing me in the backburner. Either that, or he doesn't realize the sense of urgency of my situation (time-wise).

As days go by all I can think about is the countdown until I reach 27. Right now I am seriously considering other branches (Air Force, Coast Guard) because I feel like I've hit a wall in the Navy. Some concerns I have though:
-am I allowed to talk to more than one recruiter? (especially from different branches)
-does my current recruiter need to know that I am actively looking at other branches?
-can one apply for different branches at the same time? (ex: apply for both Air Force and Coast Guard and accept whoever takes me in first)
-can you apply for both officer and enlisted at the same time? (in case the officer slot doesn't work out)

I just had a long discussion with my dad right now, and he says that I should try to "exhaust" all my chances in seeking a commission in the different branches (even the Army) before I ever consider enlisting. While that approach makes the most sense, I'm worried that I might fall into that "run-around" trap again which will only waste more time. If I find out that I didn't make it into an officer program it may already be too late to enlist (at least for the Air Force and Coast Guard).

Sorry if I sound defeatist/negative right now, but I'm trying to be realistic here. There are many factors that add on to my current mindset:
-all military branches are downsizing, so they can afford to be more selective in deciding who gets to join (i.e. competition)
-with the economy not recovering fast enough, more college graduates are looking to the military (i.e. competition) and will obviously seek officer slots first

I know dealing with competition is something I can't control (i.e. try your best and hope for the rest), but I'm also not naive to assume that getting a commission will be easy just because one has a degree. If I decide to enlist, I'll definitely try my best to apply for OCS/OTS but I'll also have the realistic mindset that I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a commission slot (okay, that's probably an exaggeration but you know what I mean). At least there are jobs in the Air Force that relate to my degree so at least my education won't be wasted.

Anyways, thanks for hearing me out. I'm going to do more research on Army commissioning options, but enlisting in the Air Force is more realistic at this point. I'll also continue studying for the ASVAB (which I've been doing for the past week or so).


tl;dr
I've considered commissioning options (multiple branches) but realize time is not on my side; my current mindset is that it's better to serve than to not serve at all (even if that means enlisting)

Thanks all

[iccyman001]

Thanks iccyman001 for the reply, I really appreciate it.


-am I allowed to talk to more than one recruiter? (especially from different branches)
Yes, of course you can
-does my current recruiter need to know that I am actively looking at other branches?
No, but it might put a fire under his or her ass
-can one apply for different branches at the same time? (ex: apply for both Air Force and Coast Guard and accept whoever takes me in first)
That part I am not sure, but I would assume no.
-can you apply for both officer and enlisted at the same time? (in case the officer slot doesn't work out)
I also don't know

I just had a long discussion with my dad right now, and he says that I should try to "exhaust" all my chances in seeking a commission in the different branches (even the Army) before I ever consider enlisting. While that approach makes the most sense, I'm worried that I might fall into that "run-around" trap again which will only waste more time. If I find out that I didn't make it into an officer program it may already be too late to enlist (at least for the Air Force and Coast Guard).


I agree with this to a certain point. IMO Air Force, Navy, Coasty... yes.... the others, hell no. That is just my opinion though

Sorry if I sound defeatist/negative right now, but I'm trying to be realistic here. There are many factors that add on to my current mindset:
-all military branches are downsizing, so they can afford to be more selective in deciding who gets to join (i.e. competition)
-with the economy not recovering fast enough, more college graduates are looking to the military (i.e. competition) and will obviously seek officer slots first
the military in some aspects is always competitive.You will be rated against your peers while you are in (in a perfect world) and you will go far and have a better chance of staying in if you are top notch. Last year we had a 15 year Major selected for the force shaping. He never got in any trouble, never did anything wrong. The issue, he never did any professional developement courses. All of his peers at his level had courses under the belt.


I know dealing with competition is something I can't control (i.e. try your best and hope for the rest), but I'm also not naive to assume that getting a commission will be easy just because one has a degree. If I decide to enlist, I'll definitely try my best to apply for OCS/OTS but I'll also have the realistic mindset that I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a commission slot (okay, that's probably an exaggeration but you know what I mean). At least there are jobs in the Air Force that relate to my degree so at least my education won't be wasted.

Anyways, thanks for hearing me out. I'm going to do more research on Army commissioning options, but enlisting in the Air Force is more realistic at this point. I'll also continue studying for the ASVAB (which I've been doing for the past week or so).


tl;dr
I've considered commissioning options (multiple branches) but realize time is not on my side; my current mindset is that it's better to serve than to not serve at all (even if that means enlisting)

Thanks all

First off look at bold ^^^^

Another reason I highly stress commissioning..

Let's say you join within a year.

Enlisted 26 year old E3. You will be a pee on. I don't mean that in a bad way ( like they will do nothing but **** with you and make you do stupid ****) but you will be the guy who takes out the trash, sweeps the floors, does the bitch work. You will have people who are 20 years old telling you what to do. For some people it can be mentally degrading. Mostly when it's some PUNK ASS 20 year old. You fall into the mindset "I am older than this guy, why the EFF do I have to listen to him."

Commissioned 26 year old O1. You are still the lower end in the totem pole(sp?) but you are already treated as an adult, respected because of your rank, put into a higher position, etc etc...

Are you catching my drift?

[Epictetus IV]

Thanks iccyman001 for the reply, I really appreciate it.

tl;dr
I've considered commissioning options (multiple branches) but realize time is not on my side; my current mindset is that it's better to serve than to not serve at all (even if that means enlisting)

Thanks all

Please. Please. PLEASE!!! Get your commission. If not for the money, do it for the quality of life. Would you rather be treated like an adult? Or like a child? I understand the attractiveness of enlisting, but intellectually speaking you need to be in a position where you will be challenged. Do not worry about the fact that you have "no leadership experience". The vast majority of officers who join have none either. That is the point of "Officer Training School". To teach you how to be a leader. Trust me, if the Air Force requires you to know it, they will teach it to you.

Also, 2) make use of my degree by pursuing one of the above-listed job programs.

This is also flawed thinking. Your background in biology, while nice to have, will not benefit you any when it comes to those jobs. The Air Force is very specific in what it teaches you and anything that you are required to know on the job will be taught to you. Following procedures, regulations, instructions are very important so anything you do outside of that you're looking for trouble. Example: Car mechanic for 10 years decides to join the USAF. With his background he tries to get a job in Vehicle Maintenance. Too bad the Air Force doesn't look at any of that. It all boils down to the needs of the Air Force and what jobs need people at any given time. Trust me when I say that having a background in Biology will not at all help you get a job related to that.


People do enlist with Bachelor degrees. I wouldn't say that it's very common, but it does happen. I just cannot stress enough the VAST difference in lifestyles of an enlisted member and an officer. Please take it from someone who is actually in the AF when they say that you will be much happier, treated with more respect, and be more challenged if you joined as an officer. You're 25 right now. By the time you do actually make it to basic training you will probably be 26. You will be going through training with people who are 17 and 18 and fresh out of high school. You will be over 50% older than them. Sure, there will be mature people in training with you, but there will also be a lot of immature people. I could picture you saying, "What the hell was I thinking...". You will also better relate to officers. Your interestes, hobbies, study habits, will likely not mesh with someone fresh out of high school who wants nothing more than to party.

I'm trying to put this in a way that doesn't make enlisted people look uneducated. Because they really aren't. It's just a different breed. I'm just trying to paint the picture for you to see how differently they are treated. Would you rather have someone hold your hand to show you how to do things and tell you what you can and can't do or would you rather be given the proper respect to know that you have the mental aptitude to understand basic rules and be able to follow them without direct supervision?

Another thing to look at is long term decisions. Do you plan on having a family? Wife? Kids? Being an officer is going to put you in a much better situation to be able to provide for you and your family. Your quality of life will be much higher. Job prospects for if you decide to get out. IMO a commissioned officer with a bachelor's degree is going to be much more competitive in the marketplace than an enlisted member.

Think of all the work you just did, all the hours of studying you did working towards your degree. Do you really want to join something that doesn't even require a degree? Do you not even care about being over-qualified? What you need to do is think more about where the Air Force will better use you. Think about all the qualities you bring to the table. Do you think the Air Force would better utilize you as an enlisted member or an officer? You've already proven that you can study and retain information. You've put in the hard work to get a degree. IMO, the only smart move for you to do is to commission. ESPECIALLY if you have the capacity and means to do so. Which you do.

Think about it like this. Say McDonalds was offering you a job. You could either choose to be a manager or a cook. Which one would you pick?

[epicknight7]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to put a well-thought reply. (Also, PM sent to iccyman001, thanks!)

Please. Please. PLEASE!!! Get your commission. If not for the money, do it for the quality of life. Would you rather be treated like an adult? Or like a child?

I don’t know much about how enlistees are treated, but I’m assuming they’re treated with contempt?

Do not worry about the fact that you have "no leadership experience". The vast majority of officers who join have none either. That is the point of "Officer Training School". To teach you how to be a leader. Trust me, if the Air Force requires you to know it, they will teach it to you.

The problem though is that leadership experience is what recruiters/boards are looking for in the first place before placing a potential candidate into OTS. Just like on the civilian job market; one needs experience in order to get experience (catch-22).

This is also flawed thinking. Your background in biology, while nice to have, will not benefit you any when it comes to those jobs. The Air Force is very specific in what it teaches you and anything that you are required to know on the job will be taught to you. Following procedures, regulations, instructions are very important so anything you do outside of that you're looking for trouble.

In all honesty, I listed those jobs at face value. I figured they are lab-type positions, so by pursuing them I figured it would only help me gain related experience and strengthen my resume, especially if I decide to return to the civilian world and pursue medical laboratory positions.

Trust me when I say that having a background in Biology will not at all help you get a job related to that.

Well, I will most likely not consider enlisting if none of those five job choices are guaranteed (i.e. on the “contract”) though at this point I think military service in general pays off in the long run. My dad retired from the Navy as an enlisted and he makes decent pay working for the military as a civilian contractor. But then again, I guess not all job specialties are “equal,” at least in the eyes of the civilian job market. (I’ve been told there’s a saying in the Navy that goes like “Choose your fate, choose your fate.”

People do enlist with Bachelor degrees. I wouldn't say that it's very common, but it does happen.

It would be nice to contact people who have gone that route so I can gain some insight from their experiences and decisions. I’m thinking they have tried the officer route as well and couldn’t make it so they enlisted as the next best thing.

You will be going through training with people who are 17 and 18 and fresh out of high school. You will be over 50% older than them. Sure, there will be mature people in training with you, but there will also be a lot of immature people. I could picture you saying, "What the hell was I thinking...". You will also better relate to officers. Your interestes, hobbies, study habits, will likely not mesh with someone fresh out of high school who wants nothing more than to party.

I have no illusions, and realize that this is a very real possibility that I have to deal with if I decide to enlist. At the end of the day though, we’re all on the same team and have to look out for each other. Camaraderie and a sense of belonging to something greater than myself would be a very rewarding experience no matter what way you look at it or approach it.

It seems that older enlistees are stigmatized in the military. Any truth in that? For example, I hope my “maturity” wouldn't be misinterpreted as a buzzkill/downer for the younger recruits (I hope I don’t become an outcast!) The partying/fun days are far behind me now, and I only look towards the future. I think letting go of one’s personal pride is one of the hardest things to do, but humility is also one of the most important lessons in life.

Would you rather have someone hold your hand to show you how to do things and tell you what you can and can't do or would you rather be given the proper respect to know that you have the mental aptitude to understand basic rules and be able to follow them without direct supervision?

From my current understanding, the enlisted side is more “hands on” while the officers are more desk/administrative. I read somewhere on yahoo answers that an enlisted person is the guy who swoops in and carries out the work while the officer is the guy who tells the enlisted guy to swoop in and carry out the work (and get credit for it). Sure, it can make someone develop a cynical mindset after looking at it that way, but the bigger picture is more important.

Another thing to look at is long term decisions. Do you plan on having a family? Wife? Kids?

Honestly, the thought of a family and kids has never crossed my mind since getting a career started (especially in the military) is my number one priority. Those things probably won’t cross my mind until I reach my 30s/40s. I’m looking forward to the personal growth that I can potentially gain from serving in the military.

Think of all the work you just did, all the hours of studying you did working towards your degree. Do you really want to join something that doesn't even require a degree? Do you not even care about being over-qualified?

In today’s world, it seems that one can never study/work enough to get where he/she wants to be in life. The military is no exception. All one can do right now is try their best and keep moving forward regardless the circumstances.

What you need to do is think more about where the Air Force will better use you. Think about all the qualities you bring to the table. Do you think the Air Force would better utilize you as an enlisted member or an officer? You've already proven that you can study and retain information. You've put in the hard work to get a degree. IMO, the only smart move for you to do is to commission. ESPECIALLY if you have the capacity and means to do so. Which you do.

You’re right. I’ll definitely contact an officer recruiter before considering enlisted. However, I’m try to not be naïve here and maintain a realistic mindset that seeking a commission these days is really competitive so there’s no point in counting chickens before they hatch.
After exhausting all my chances on seeking a commission for all the branches, would it then be okay (in your opinion) to consider enlistment? Like you said, enlisting isn’t “bad” but it’s “different.” I’m sure there are plenty of opportunities to be the best you can be on the enlisted side too as well (ex: warrant officer programs).

Think about it like this. Say McDonalds was offering you a job. You could either choose to be a manager or a cook. Which one would you pick?

I’m sure the answer is obvious to everyone for this rhetorical question, but one has to realize that we all have to start somewhere, even if that means it’s at the very bottom.

Thank you for your response, and taking the time to read my reply (if you choose to do so). Also, thank you for your service; I hope to have that honor/privilege in the near future as well.

[Epictetus IV]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to put a well-thought reply. (Also, PM sent to iccyman001, thanks!)

I don’t know much about how enlistees are treated, but I’m assuming they’re treated with contempt?

Contempt might not be the right word, but definitely in a sense I would say yes. People are very prideful. When being taught certain tasks from people senior in rank to you there is definitely that sense of 'everything I say is right, everything you say and do is wrong'. The problem is a lot of people who are doing the teaching don't understand or take the time to evaluate their trainee's mental acuity when tailoring their training plan. They assume their prowess is the be-all end-all to mastering the task at hand. They might be technically adept at a specific skill set but by setting that boundary of 'I'm right, you're wrong' they create an unnecessary barrier between the trainer and the trainee. As a force I don't think we do a good job of fostering a learning environment. There have even been times when the trainer was incorrect, and when questioned by the trainee about whether it was correct or not they stuck to their guns and defended their position to the end even knowing they were wrong, simply because they were senior in rank and would not have a person junior to them correcting them.

I work closely with officers on a daily basis and can honestly say that they are respected on a level that enables them to pick up tasks easier and with much less mental stress. With enlisted in my career field it is a cock measuring contest. Who knows more than who. Lets see if I can make myself look smarter than this guy. Technical acumen only comes from experience, and with that junior members do have a lot to learn from those senior to them, but IMO officer's do a better job of bestowing knowledge on those junior to them than enlisted do. It is just a different beast.

(Keep in mind I can only speak of my experiences in my aviation career field which is an entirely different beast than the rest of the Air Force. Most other career fields may not have the problems I speak of, I simply don't know, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.)

The problem though is that leadership experience is what recruiters/boards are looking for in the first place before placing a potential candidate into OTS. Just like on the civilian job market; one needs experience in order to get experience (catch-22).

You may be looking too far into this. There are others in this thread that will be able to answer specific officer questions for you who went through exactly what you're going through now. Try not to mistake leadership with management. I can only guess the AF is not looking for times when you had people directly underneath you, but more times when you maybe led different events, led a study group, class leader, etc. The AF is not going to expect someone who went from high school straight to college to have any direct actual leadership experience. Only times where you clearly set yourself apart from your peers. (Tutor, study group, etc.)

Again, this is just guessing on my part. I do not know what officer recruiters/boards are really looking for. For that I would ask your recruiter or talk to some O's in this thread.

In all honesty, I listed those jobs at face value. I figured they are lab-type positions, so by pursuing them I figured it would only help me gain related experience and strengthen my resume, especially if I decide to return to the civilian world and pursue medical laboratory positions.

There is no doubt that those jobs will help you in the civilian world. I am simply pointing out that having your background in Biology will not directly help you in the performance of your job in the Air Force. Only if having that background to be selected for that job was a prerequisite would it help. If simply looking to bolster your resume in the medical field it would definitely help.

Well, I will most likely not consider enlisting if none of those five job choices are guaranteed (i.e. on the “contract”) though at this point I think military service in general pays off in the long run. My dad retired from the Navy as an enlisted and he makes decent pay working for the military as a civilian contractor. But then again, I guess not all job specialties are “equal,” at least in the eyes of the civilian job market. (I’ve been told there’s a saying in the Navy that goes like “Choose your fate, choose your fate.”

There is your main concern if commissioning doesn't work out. When I joined, I was guaranteed my job before I left for basic training. I am unsure if they are still offering the GTEP program for enlistees. I was considered 'EWQ' when I enlisted which enabled me to only list down the jobs I wanted and no open categories. If they make you list down an open category you are telling them you will take any job that falls into that group. Keep in mind that just like the O world, the AF's retention rates are at an all time high which enables them to be as picky as they want. Talk to your recruiter.

I have no illusions, and realize that this is a very real possibility that I have to deal with if I decide to enlist. At the end of the day though, we’re all on the same team and have to look out for each other. Camaraderie and a sense of belonging to something greater than myself would be a very rewarding experience no matter what way you look at it or approach it.

I completely agree, and it is definitely a rewarding experience.

It seems that older enlistees are stigmatized in the military. Any truth in that? For example, I hope my “maturity” wouldn't be misinterpreted as a buzzkill/downer for the younger recruits (I hope I don’t become an outcast!) The partying/fun days are far behind me now, and I only look towards the future. I think letting go of one’s personal pride is one of the hardest things to do, but humility is also one of the most important lessons in life.

While I don't think you would be misinterpreted as a buzzkill/downer, I do think that on a basic level you would have a hard time socializing with younger recruits. Tech school tends to be one big party for those who like to do it and you may look at yourself as an outcast if nothing else.

From my current understanding, the enlisted side is more “hands on” while the officers are more desk/administrative. I read somewhere on yahoo answers that an enlisted person is the guy who swoops in and carries out the work while the officer is the guy who tells the enlisted guy to swoop in and carry out the work (and get credit for it). Sure, it can make someone develop a cynical mindset after looking at it that way, but the bigger picture is more important.

The enlisted side is definitely more hands on. Depending on the job, officers are more administrative in nature. If this is not something you are interested in then you need to apply for a Rated slot instead of a Non-Rated slot. The Rated officers are usually the one's getting dirty and doing the exciting missions while the Non-rated tend to be your managerial/admin types.

As far as getting credit for things, that is something that permeates throughout the entire military. All people senior in rank to you (officer or enlisted) can essentially take credit for what you did because they are in charge of you, and also responsible for you, which means that in a backwards way they are responsible for that action being accomplished. Make sense?

After exhausting all my chances on seeking a commission for all the branches, would it then be okay (in your opinion) to consider enlistment? Like you said, enlisting isn’t “bad” but it’s “different.” I’m sure there are plenty of opportunities to be the best you can be on the enlisted side too as well (ex: warrant officer programs).

Without a doubt in my mind would it be okay! I love being enlisted. If you can play the game and follow the rules, you'll do just fine. I do plan on applying for a commission. I have a little less than a year left until I finish my bachelor's so I'm looking forward to it. But if I were in your situation I would settle for nothing less than the best. I would pursue a commission to the max extent possible, and only after all attempts and means of attempting has failed would I consider enlisting.

I’m sure the answer is obvious to everyone for this rhetorical question, but one has to realize that we all have to start somewhere, even if that means it’s at the very bottom.

Yes, this is true. But you have already started somewhere. You've done the work necessary for a commission. You have a degree. So there is no need for you to start at the very bottom.