Why doesn't jesus help everybody who asks?

[Harbinger]

I still haven't gotten anything even remotely close to a reasonable answer. People pray and ask Jesus to help them, they ask for others to pray for them. It's obvious people think these prayers are not only heard but, answered. Why doesn't every call for help get answered? mistercollie we all know your beliefs. If you can't add anything useful to the thread, please refrain from posting..

[SmithMachineGuy]

Jesus can't answer all the prayers, so he only takes care of the important ones like helping a football team win, or getting rid of a teenaged girls zit in time for prom.

[stateprop]

Why doesn't jesus help everybody who asks?

because he is dead?

[Tekkendo]

[Harbinger]

Why not just ask for a neg? You'll get the same results only I won't think you're a douche.

[Zeezprah]

Jesus can't answer all the prayers, so he only takes care of the important ones like helping a football team win, or getting rid of a teenaged girls zit in time for prom.

Don't forget, now, she has to be a hot one, too! Can't have no fugly bishes getting comfort from the Almighty!

[lucious]

Have you seen how complex the pathophysiology of the AIDS virus is? That shts way too hard, son.



its alot easier to just focus on football games.

[coffey06]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.
2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.
3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?
4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

I'm sure some people can think of other possible reasons. Again this assumes Christianity is true. Your purpose might be to point to "unanswered" prayer as disproof of Christianity, but being finite, limited beings it is simply impossible to know whether or not the above possibilities are false. Ask yourself if a parent refusing to help her child for whatever reason constitutes evidence against the existence of said parent. Obviously not. You must rely on other evidences to validate the existence or non-existence of the parent, and it is the same with God.

[Harbinger]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.
2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.
3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?
4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

I'm sure some people can think of other possible reasons. Again this assumes Christianity is true. Your purpose might be to point to "unanswered" prayer as disproof of Christianity, but being finite, limited beings it is simply impossible to know whether or not the above possibilities are false. Ask yourself if a parent refusing to help her child for whatever reason constitutes evidence against the existence of said parent. Obviously not. You must rely on other evidences to validate the existence or non-existence of the parent, and it is the same with God.

This seems like the standard apologetic answer. I'm talking little girl walking down the street feels a hand go up her skirt as another hand covers her mouth. The first thought through her mind is "Oh God please don't let this happen". I'm sorry but none of the answers you gave fit that scenario nor, do they make it OK.

[ViolentZ]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.
2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.
3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?
4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

I'm sure some people can think of other possible reasons. Again this assumes Christianity is true. Your purpose might be to point to "unanswered" prayer as disproof of Christianity, but being finite, limited beings it is simply impossible to know whether or not the above possibilities are false. Ask yourself if a parent refusing to help her child for whatever reason constitutes evidence against the existence of said parent. Obviously not. You must rely on other evidences to validate the existence or non-existence of the parent, and it is the same with God.

Your rationale does not really have appropriate hypothesis since it's impossible to test them.


in b4 'thats why its called a faith and not science'

[dakensta]

because he is dead?

oooface.jpg

[Zeezprah]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.

One person I know; born blind. Hates life. Another two, blind at the age of 5and 17, neither can cope, will spend anyway from hours to days at a time in their rooms, crying (shrieking, really) and eventually crying themselves to sleep. Another, born with a cleft lip or something, she can't talk and her upper lip juts out, even though she's obviously had surgery. Another, possibly born with Down's or something similar; eyes protrude from her skull more than they should, abnormally shaped skull, unfortunately an ugly person, has eaten herself into near-obesity.

Yeah, them not having been cursed with this sh!t would definitely prevent them from becoming evil people. Being humans, they'd inevitably be arseholes if their station was improved, and why would Jesus want to improve things for them, since they're all depressed as ffffuuuu, just as he seems to want us. Catholic view, anyways.

2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.

Agreed. But then since most people don't ask for this, not really relevant.

3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?

Body parts, family members and so forth are not objects which can just be replaced. And often times people in horrific situations, in their own words, "simply learn to live with it." I wouldn't call that a part of God's plan, so much as people having to accept the reality that he won't be helping them any time soon. My grandma died; my grandfather turned to drinking; he called my aunt a whore; another daughter with mental issues went insane and tried to kill both him and my mum; my mum spent 6 years depressed as phuck and trying to look after everyone, and then divorced my dad after an affair. There has been no real "fix" for us in any of this, other than to accept that things are phucked and moved on. That's how these situations resolve for most people - there is no miracle, no answered prayer.

4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

Yeah. Those kids I mentioned that are blind? Doesn't matter that they've had their lives snatched away from them and replaced with something that won't be as fulfilling - oh, I'm not saying they'll be depressed forever. If they're lucky, my mum, a charity worker for the blind, will get them used to it and they may have happy lives. But let's not kid ourselves - it'll be a band aid for a gunshot. There will be no upside to any of it, they will miss out.

That girl with the lip? Well, hopefully she'll have enough surgery so that it resembles a normal lip. Hopefully she'll get her teeth fixed, and hopefully she'll have speech therapy and be able to speak a perfectly understandable sentence. I hope so. I've talked to her a bit, although she ended up having to write stuff down because I didn't understand that much, and she seems nice. More than that, I can tell that if she hadn't been born with this defect she'd be gorgeous. So hopefully she'll get the surgery she needs, because I know that she's never had a boyfriend. I know that she's bullied, even now as a 20 year old. She tries to live a normal life, but when you can't go anywhere and know that you'll be understood, when no one will ever want to be with you, when you have hopes and dreams that rely, as almost all of them do, on having the ability to talk right...well, maybe you'll understand why your points this far have been pretty obtuse and downright offensive.

I'm sure some people can think of other possible reasons. Again this assumes Christianity is true. Your purpose might be to point to "unanswered" prayer as disproof of Christianity, but being finite, limited beings it is simply impossible to know whether or not the above possibilities are false. Ask yourself if a parent refusing to help her child for whatever reason constitutes evidence against the existence of said parent. Obviously not. You must rely on other evidences to validate the existence or non-existence of the parent, and it is the same with God.

I think the more likely reason is that whatever's out there doesn't care enough to do something about it or isn't sentient. No parent that loves their child would mutilate them, blind them, disfigure and main them, but then not answer when they quietly sob and plead for help. Nobody that's all loving would just leave them there, and out of all of those people I mentioned, that's just what happened. The Down's girl is a Christian, but she's admitted she just wants to have another life because she hates this one. The girl with the cleft lip doesn't believe. That now-blind 17 year old didn't believe - jokes that that's why it happened. And as for the five year old, he doesn't believe anymore. He doesn't understand why he'd be blind if Jesus loves him so much, and from what I've heard his mum stopped trying to convince him of God's existence. From what my mum said, and the pictures of the family I've seen, I think she's just trying to convince herself, too. They're a nice family. Hope the kid learns to adapt well.

I'd just like to finish by saying I don't mean this to sound scathing or hateful, I really don't. From the posts I've seen, you're an alright guy, and I'm positive you didn't mean anything wrong with what you said. But as someone who's witnessed just barely a fraction of the horrible things that people go through, and the kinds of things they've said to me about their experiences, or lack thereof, with God, your post was...I can't describe it, but it was just wrong. Those arguments just discard human suffering entirely, and write it off. And that irks me.

[Streetbull]

I still haven't gotten anything even remotely close to a reasonable answer. People pray and ask Jesus to help them, they ask for others to pray for them. It's obvious people think these prayers are not only heard but, answered. Why doesn't every call for help get answered? mistercollie we all know your beliefs. If you can't add anything useful to the thread, please refrain from posting..

God is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. God is in process of becoming those things.

Think of God as a human body (we are made in God's image). Just as we are not aware of what each cell is up to, God is not aware of each of us. Only when something that really irritates the system, like an infection, does God become aware. But it has to be massive, like a war or similar. Then He organises to deal with the problem.

Does that answer your question?

[US_Ranger]

These threads are a dime a dozen. This **** has been answered so many fcking times.

ANSWER:

You live in a linear time scale and can only see what's directly in front and behind you. You don't know the future and you don't know what impact divine intervention will have on you. Maybe not answering your prayers allows for someone 40 years from now to do something great and save millions of lives. You can't know this because you can't see the future. On the other hand, a god who doesn't live on a linear time scale would be able to see all of this and therefore make a decision (if god makes "decisions" in the same sense we do) on whether answering your prayers is the best course of action or not.

I would say "/thread" but there will be another 5 or 6 of these threads in the next month.

[Harbinger]

God is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. God is in process of becoming those things.

Think of God as a human body (we are made in God's image). Just as we are not aware of what each cell is up to, God is not aware of each of us. Only when something that really irritates the system, like an infection, does God become aware. But it has to be massive, like a war or similar. Then He organises to deal with the problem.

Does that answer your question?

When I was a kid, my god was all powerful...

[Harbinger]

God is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. God is in process of becoming those things.

Think of God as a human body (we are made in God's image). Just as we are not aware of what each cell is up to, God is not aware of each of us. Only when something that really irritates the system, like an infection, does God become aware. But it has to be massive, like a war or similar. Then He organises to deal with the problem.

Does that answer your question?

These threads are a dime a dozen. This **** has been answered so many fcking times.

ANSWER:

You live in a linear time scale and can only see what's directly in front and behind you. You don't know the future and you don't know what impact divine intervention will have on you. Maybe not answering your prayers allows for someone 40 years from now to do something great and save millions of lives. You can't know this because you can't see the future. On the other hand, a god who doesn't live on a linear time scale would be able to see all of this and therefore make a decision (if god makes "decisions" in the same sense we do) on whether answering your prayers is the best course of action or not.

I would say "/thread" but there will be another 5 or 6 of these threads in the next month.

So who's right?

[coffey06]

This seems like the standard apologetic answer. I'm talking little girl walking down the street feels a hand go up her skirt as another hand covers her mouth. The first thought through her mind is "Oh God please don't let this happen". I'm sorry but none of the answers you gave fit that scenario nor, do they make it OK.

The scenario you described is indeed terrible. No answer I or anyone else could give as to why God would allow a little girl to be abducted would be emotionally satisfying and none would make the action "ok" from the standpoint of the abductor's moral responsibility. There are three short things I want to say in response to the scenario you've given. First, freedom of the will entails that humans are free to bring about terrible evil and suffering. Even if it were the case that God only intervened in the will when someone acted wrongly, that would still negate free will as it would turn out that that person really wasn't free to err after all.

My second point concerns God's action in response to the abduction. I want to agree that God can choose to save the girl directly which would not result in a violation of the abductor's freedom of the will. You say that none of the responses I gave in my first post fit the scenario you described. What about #4? Isn't it at least possible? You would have to be omniscient, seeing the end of history from the beginning, to say with any confidence that God might not have sufficient reason for allowing this girl's suffering, even if such reason wouldn't emerge until centuries after the abduction. Obviously this response doesn't help the girl "now", nor does it do much to ease our emotional distress at the situation, but it is an intellectually viable possibility that must be considered.

Finally, consider your reaction to your own scenario given a naturalistic world view. You understandably see the abduction of an innocent girl by a pervert on the street to be an obscenely wicked action. I do too. However, if there is no God, and this girl is just a highly evolved animal who is destined to perish and lose consciousness forever, what ultimate value could she possibly have? She's just a complex arrangement of atoms having their origin in some early star and those atoms will eventually dilute as the universe reaches maximum entropy. Why is it wrong, on naturalism, for her to be abducted and raped? After all, such actions which look very much like rape and murder occur all the time in the animal world. Why are humans special given naturalism?

It seems to me that although the suffering and evil we see in the world is the #1 objection to belief in God, it is only if God exists that this girl's life and suffering will have any meaning. Only then can the injustice she experiences be made right. Otherwise her suffering is truly pointless.

On the cross, Jesus bore our sin and suffered in ways most of us can't even imagine. If Christianity is true, God isn't some detached entity who cares little about his creation. He is a God that suffers when we suffer, hurts when we hurt, and longs for us to find everlasting love and mercy. He proved that by humiliating himself, even to death on the cross, for people who reject and hate him that they might turn from their wickedness.

Sermon over.

[US_Ranger]

So who's right?

Answer: Who the fck cares?

[Harbinger]

Answer: Who the fck cares?

Somebody must otherwise, we wouldn't have special places like this to discuss these issues.

[coffey06]

Sincere post.

Thanks for the sincere post, my friend. I agree that my post to which you responded does little to help with the emotional pain of suffering. It was merely to address Harbinger's question from an intellectual level. Although I inadvertantly responded to many of the issues you raised in my 2nd response to Harbinger, I just want to add one thing in particular with regard to your post.

Much of the suffering we endure may indeed be pointless with regard to this life. The girl with the myriad facial deformities may never be beautiful, never be loved, and never be happy - in this life. If she dies and God doesn't exist, then that's it. Her suffering was pointless. But if God is real and he really loves his creation, then there will be a day a million years from now where she looks back on her brief, seemingly-momentary affliction and says "I would go through that a million times over to know this blessing". If we want to get mad at God for allowing us to suffer, we have to keep things in perspective with the eternal consequences.

[ViolentZ]

It seems to me that although the suffering and evil we see in the world is the #1 objection to belief in God, it is only if God exists that this girl's life and suffering will have any meaning. Only then can the injustice she experiences be made right. Otherwise her suffering is truly pointless.

wtf am i reading

[AugustusMcCrae]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.
2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.
3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?
4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

LOL!
I am sorry, but all I see here are lame rationalizations to explain the failure of a dead man to grant ones wishes.

[nschell69]

Somebody must otherwise, we wouldn't have special places like this to discuss these issues.

I don't think "Jesus" would ask for anything from GOD so I doubt he would grant wishes if he were in such a postition. There is no easy way out on the path of spiritual development. Oh and as Socrates said. "Our prayers should be for blessings in general, for God knows best what is good for us."

Inb4 proof of spiritual development

[Harbinger]

The scenario you described is indeed terrible. No answer I or anyone else could give as to why God would allow a little girl to be abducted would be emotionally satisfying and none would make the action "ok" from the standpoint of the abductor's moral responsibility. There are three short things I want to say in response to the scenario you've given. First, freedom of the will entails that humans are free to bring about terrible evil and suffering. Even if it were the case that God only intervened in the will when someone acted wrongly, that would still negate free will as it would turn out that that person really wasn't free to err after all.

There is no such thing as free will but, that's a discussion for another day.

My second point concerns God's action in response to the abduction. I want to agree that God can choose to save the girl directly which would not result in a violation of the abductor's freedom of the will. You say that none of the responses I gave in my first post fit the scenario you described. What about #4? Isn't it at least possible? You would have to be omniscient, seeing the end of history from the beginning, to say with any confidence that God might not have sufficient reason for allowing this girl's suffering, even if such reason wouldn't emerge until centuries after the abduction. Obviously this response doesn't help the girl "now", nor does it do much to ease our emotional distress at the situation, but it is an intellectually viable possibility that must be considered.

Insert Occam's razor here...

Finally, consider your reaction to your own scenario given a naturalistic world view. You understandably see the abduction of an innocent girl by a pervert on the street to be an obscenely wicked action. I do too. However, if there is no God, and this girl is just a highly evolved animal who is destined to perish and lose consciousness forever, what ultimate value could she possibly have? She's just a complex arrangement of atoms having their origin in some early star and those atoms will eventually dilute as the universe reaches maximum entropy. Why is it wrong, on naturalism, for her to be abducted and raped? After all, such actions which look very much like rape and murder occur all the time in the animal world. Why are humans special given naturalism?

This is a huge reason why I despise religion so much. It devalues humanity in a disgusting and despicable way.

It seems to me that although the suffering and evil we see in the world is the #1 objection to belief in God, it is only if God exists that this girl's life and suffering will have any meaning. Only then can the injustice she experiences be made right. Otherwise her suffering is truly pointless.

Made right how??? Is god going to unrape her? According to Christianity all the rapist need to is repent, all is forgiven and the girl gets screwed again. How is that justice? This is another reason I despise religion. Sin has absolutely NOTHING to do with what you did or who you did it to. It's all about not bending to god's will. That isn't justice.

On the cross, Jesus bore our sin and suffered in ways most of us can't even imagine. If Christianity is true, God isn't some detached entity who cares little about his creation. He is a God that suffers when we suffer, hurts when we hurt, and longs for us to find everlasting love and mercy. He proved that by humiliating himself, even to death on the cross, for people who reject and hate him that they might turn from their wickedness.

Jesus didn't suffer anymore than he planned on suffering. Pain for a few hours dead for 36 hours, I'd hardy call that a sacrifice. Even for a sin nobody actually committed.

Sermon over.

thank god.

[askemhoes]

i had a talk with god brah, he said jesus has got into pot since he got back to heaven. sorry brahs.

[sy2502]

Assuming that Christianity is true (otherwise the answer is Jesus doesn't answer prayers because he's dead), there is any number of reasons why Jesus may not seemingly answer a prayer. Here are some possible responses:

1) Jesus knows the "help" you're asking for will hurt you in the long run. Example: cure your acne, which turns you into a handsome arrogant prick who treats others poorly.
2) Jesus can't do the action you are asking for. Example: make someone freely fall in love with you.
3) Jesus does help, but you don't recognize it. Example: you pray for God to fix your flat tire, and a nice guy drives by later and helps you fix your tire. Maybe that was God's plan?
4) There are good and sufficient reasons for allowing you to endure whatever suffering you're enduring. Example: perhaps cancer leads you to greater reliance and faith in God.

I'm sure some people can think of other possible reasons. Again this assumes Christianity is true. Your purpose might be to point to "unanswered" prayer as disproof of Christianity, but being finite, limited beings it is simply impossible to know whether or not the above possibilities are false. Ask yourself if a parent refusing to help her child for whatever reason constitutes evidence against the existence of said parent. Obviously not. You must rely on other evidences to validate the existence or non-existence of the parent, and it is the same with God.

These would all be interesting answers if it wasn't for a small detail: Jesus said he'd answer prayers. Period. He didn't say he'd answer them if he wanted to, he didn't say he'd answer them his own twisted way, he didn't say he'd answer them in the distant future.

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it, and it will be yours. ~ Mark 11:22, 24

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. ~ Matthew 7:7-8

I don't see any clauses in the above. It seems to really say you are supposed to get what you pray for.

[coffey06]

These would all be interesting answers if it wasn't for a small detail: Jesus said he'd answer prayers. Period. He didn't say he'd answer them if he wanted to, he didn't say he'd answer them his own twisted way, he didn't say he'd answer them in the distant future.

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it, and it will be yours. ~ Mark 11:22, 24

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. ~ Matthew 7:7-8

I don't see any clauses in the above. It seems to really say you are supposed to get what you pray for.

Everything in its context (inb4 context lol). So if we take those passages as literally as you want to take them, does that mean that I can pray for Jesus to kill everyone and send us to hell and that he should do it because "Jesus said he'd answer prayers. Period."? Your criticism doesn't take into account the overarching theme of the coming of the kingdom of God which runs through the Gospels. The purpose of prayer is to praise God and seek that his will be done on Earth as in heaven and scriptures regarding prayer must be read with that in mind.

[Godfrd824]

Epicurus put it so well;



I'll just say, if I was God, I would fix all issues, and I wouldn't force you to love me, and I wouldn't condemn even Hitler to burn for all eternity.

[nschell69]

Epicurus sure was small minded eh?

[dabears8273]

I still haven't gotten anything even remotely close to a reasonable answer. People pray and ask Jesus to help them, they ask for others to pray for them. It's obvious people think these prayers are not only heard but, answered. Why doesn't every call for help get answered? mistercollie we all know your beliefs. If you can't add anything useful to the thread, please refrain from posting..

Jesus dies a LONG time ago, how could he help people now?