Function Trainers - Good idea?

[oakvilleguy]

Hi everyone.

I'm hoping to come on here and get some unbiased advice. I'm 35 years old, and my wife and I have recently begun to improve our fitness.

I personally have struggled with weight issues since two years of age, and at my peak 7 years ago reached 327 lbs (all of it fat). I've since come down to 255 lbs and am continuing to work on steadily losing weight.

I have been working out cardio only for the last couple of years, and want to augment my work out to include strength training. I have no intention of ever becoming a body builder, I just want to be able to take my kids to the beach without embarrassing them and myself by joining them in the water.

I work 60+ hours a week (in a desk job) and have children to tend to - so a normal gym is out of the question due to time constraints.

I've recently gotten my feet wet by buying some used PowerBlocks (dumbbells) and a bench from a neighbour. I've definitely seen some progress as I've gone down a size of pants in the last month.

Now my question:

I'm not getting much of a lower body workout right now with just dumb bells. So I want to replace the bench (space constraints) with a function trainer. My main goal being fat loss.

Does anyone have some opinions between the following functional trainers:

1) Torque F5 used @ $ 1900
2) New Torque F7 new @ 2900
3) Hoist V6 @ $ 3000
4) Life Fitness G7

Thanks for any advice or perspective you guys can offer.

[Cleveland33]

I personally feel, and you will get this in this forum ad naseum, that you're best bet is a rack and an olympic barbell weight set.

Clearly you understand the effectiveness of weight training to lose weight, just because it's a barbell doesn't mean that you'll be building a bodybuilder physique. In fact, some may argue that a functional trainer is more useful for bodybuilding than weight training.

Congrats on your successes though - repped.

[cgc]

I like the idea....but price vs what you get IMO isn't worth it.

I'm not bashing the equipment at all...I like them. Just think they are WAY over priced.

BUT, if you like them and can afford one its not a bad piece. I'm not 100% sure I would want this as my ONLY piece of equipment though.

[oakvilleguy]

I personally feel, and you will get this in this forum ad naseum, that you're best bet is a rack and an olympic barbell weight set.

Clearly you understand the effectiveness of weight training to lose weight, just because it's a barbell doesn't mean that you'll be building a bodybuilder physique. In fact, some may argue that a functional trainer is more useful for bodybuilding than weight training.

Congrats on your successes though - repped.

Interesting perspective. I'm glad I've come here.

Do you feel with the newer machines/attachments you can simulate many of the exercises that a Olympic barbell/rack system will give you? Much of the marketing states these gyms can do everything a rack can do. What am I missing?

I'm was at 53% body fat, when I started this. Keeping that in mind I'm quite intimidated by an Olympic barbell set. I have no one to spot me or my form, and I already injured myself wrists on my dumbbells. So I'm really shying away from the barbells.

[oakvilleguy]

BUT, if you like them and can afford one its not a bad piece. I'm not 100% sure I would want this as my ONLY piece of equipment though.

What else would be needed in order to achieve fat loss?

[Cleveland33]

Interesting perspective. I'm glad I've come here.

Do you feel with the newer machines/attachments you can simulate many of the exercises that a Olympic barbell/rack system will give you? Much of the marketing states these gyms can do everything a rack can do. What am I missing?

I'm was at 53% body fat, when I started this. Keeping that in mind I'm quite intimidated by an Olympic barbell set. I have no one to spot me or my form, and I already injured myself wrists on my dumbbells. So I'm really shying away from the barbells.

lack of spotters is what the power rack is for. there is a stickied thread at the top of the forum page about power racks - I would really suggest you read through it, a lot of information on what to look for and what a rack can do. Then I would go through the craigslist thread - if you can afford a functional trainer, you can afford a rack and weight set, and if you get it on CL you'll come out WAY ahead.

As for the actual training - everyone has a different style. But since you're "intimidated" and new, I would really suggest you look into the 5x5 training style. Now there are different variations so make sure you are looking at the beginner routine. Some involve Olympic lifts, namely the clean and jerk. Others don't. Personally I am following the Stronglifts 5x5 and I think it's perfect for beginners (even though I have been around a gym for the last 20 years, I really was a beginner to weight training).

In a nutshell, you start all lifts with just the Olympic bar (45lbs).
On Monday, you do the following:
Squat 5 sets of 5 reps
Bench 5x5
Bent over row 5x5

On Wed
Squat 5x5 (add 5lbs each workout so now you're at bar + 2.5lbs plates on each side)
Military press 5x5 (bar only because this is the first workout with this press)
Deadlift 1x5 (on deadlifts you add 10lbs each workout)

Friday
Squat 5x5 (additional 5lbs since Wed)
Bench 5x5 (add 5lbs from Monday)
Row 5x5 (again, add 5lbs)

And then just keep doing that till you start stalling on some of the lifts.

[Wosborne1]

Rack and Oly bar+ weight set
Powerblocks cover dumbells...
Elliptical cardio machine. (some may not like them but they are the best IMO for HIIT cardio, which consequently is some say the best for fat loss (there is video of Jim Wendler advocating it).

Either way I suppose the bottom line is, eat as clean as possible, read the fat loss stickies and go by those. Lift then do cardio, and make sure to eat less calories than you burn. If you want to go with those go ahead, that being said, if you like me you will get bitten by the iron bug and want to keep going. But once again read the stickies, get advice here and then make your choice based on what you want. But I would invest in a cardio machine of some sort.

[Cleveland33]

more on the Strong Lifts 5x5 here:
http://stronglifts.com/

[oakvilleguy]

Either way I suppose the bottom line is, eat as clean as possible, read the fat loss stickies and go by those. Lift then do cardio, and make sure to eat less calories than you burn. If you want to go with those go ahead, that being said, if you like me you will get bitten by the iron bug and want to keep going. But once again read the stickies, get advice here and then make your choice based on what you want. But I would invest in a cardio machine of some sort.

I've got an Octane Q37 elliptical that I use religiously. I love the thing.

Lets go back to the functional trainer. I really want to clarify here.

The big pluses for me are:

+ Quick to switch exercises (especially important as I only have 40 mins in the morning to work out)
+ Small compact fits in a 35x35 area and folds up so I can use the room for other purposes.
+ Wife will use as well
+ Kids can't get into it as it locks (in the case of the Torque)

- More expensive (I don't really care that much)

Is there something that I can do with a rack that I can't do with any of these machines?

Does anyone have any advice regarding the particular machines. For example the Torque F7 vs F5 ... the F5 has leg curls built in, where as the F7 does not.

[Wosborne1]

Time shouldn't be an issue really. Unless you mean 40 minutes for lifting AND cardio. If thats the case then, doing empty stomach cardio will help you lose weight rather quickly.

But I still vote for the power rack, who knows your children may want to lift when they get older as well, so you would be making a worthwhile investment for the family. That being said I see no issue with you in your situation getting the cable machine, because down the road if you see fit you can invest in a power rack, and well then you have both (which alot of well stocked home gyms have). And don't forget you have the power blocks which can be used to do many effective full body lifts just in a slightly different manner.


Good luck with your search! a

P.s. i wish I had an elliptical at my house

[thedickus]

I've got an Octane Q37 elliptical that I use religiously. I love the thing.

Lets go back to the functional trainer. I really want to clarify here.

The big pluses for me are:

+ Quick to switch exercises (especially important as I only have 40 mins in the morning to work out)
+ Small compact fits in a 35x35 area and folds up so I can use the room for other purposes.
+ Wife will use as well
+ Kids can't get into it as it locks (in the case of the Torque)

- More expensive (I don't really care that much)

Is there something that I can do with a rack that I can't do with any of these machines?

Does anyone have any advice regarding the particular machines. For example the Torque F7 vs F5 ... the F5 has leg curls built in, where as the F7 does not.

I've never used either and have barely used a functional trainer, but I love cable crossover machines. So here's my take. The F5 comes with the bench that will move out of the way and yes it has the leg ext/leg curl attachment but it also only has 1 200lb weight stack. Probably not a big deal initially but I'm sure you'll out grow it quickly. There are ways to get around topping out your weight stack, like doing isolation exercises before doing compound movements like presses or squats or doing the movement very slowly. The F7 has 2 150lb weight stacks which I like but no bench included, so you'll have to buy a bench anyway. You may be able to find a bench with a leg ext/leg curl attachment and about 100lbs of free weights should get you by for quite a while. I like the idea of both of those units being lockable. I have no kids but a 9 year old nephew and 5 year old niece stay with us often and I always have to go over the ground rules to stay out of the gym area when they're in the basement.
You're right your wife would be more apt to use a functional trainer than free weights especially if she or both of you have no real experience with free weights.
The only thing you really can't do with that machine that you can do with a rack are free weight exercises like benches, deadlifts, squats, or olympic style lifts. But you can do their machine counterpart and still get in an excellent workout while taxing your muscles.
Hopefully you'll get someone on here with actual experience in the one or more of the machines you're inquiring about that can offer some useful insight for you.

[rpark]

I like the idea of functional trainers. I've got a free motion dual cable cross, and it's the one piece that everyone in my family uses. My kids and wife all love it and do a variety of exercises with it. I use it for a few things, but not quite as much as everyone else.

I can't comment on any of the trainers you listed, but I can say that the FreeMotion unit is pretty nice. Retails over 3k, but you can find either a floor model or used well under 3k.

[cgc]

What else would be needed in order to achieve fat loss?

I mean realistically, you don't even need that functional trainer. A set of bands and a well put together bodyweight exercise regiment (along with good diet) will result in weight loss. My point was I would prefer to have the option of weights and a kettlebell or two.
Lean muscle mass aids in fat loss...so lifting heavy weights is an important roll as well.

I mean, from what you've outlined as your strong point (and this is just my opinion) that's just a lot of money. But if you're ok with it...rock and roll, man.

[oakvilleguy]

I've never used either and have barely used a functional trainer, but I love cable crossover machines. So here's my take. The F5 comes with the bench that will move out of the way and yes it has the leg ext/leg curl attachment but it also only has 1 200lb weight stack. Probably not a big deal initially but I'm sure you'll out grow it quickly. There are ways to get around topping out your weight stack, like doing isolation exercises before doing compound movements like presses or squats or doing the movement very slowly. The F7 has 2 150lb weight stacks which I like but no bench included, so you'll have to buy a bench anyway. You may be able to find a bench with a leg ext/leg curl attachment and about 100lbs of free weights should get you by for quite a while. I like the idea of both of those units being lockable.

The only thing you really can't do with that machine that you can do with a rack are free weight exercises like benches, deadlifts, squats, or olympic style lifts. But you can do their machine counterpart and still get in an excellent workout while taxing your muscles.
Hopefully you'll get someone on here with actual experience in the one or more of the machines you're inquiring about that can offer some useful insight for you.

Yes I'm starting to lean towards getting an F7. The dealer actually includes the optional bench which tucks away. It's a shame it doesn't have the leg curl unit, I know my wife really likes it on the F5.

When I look at the Hoist V6, they seem similar and I think the Hoist has an optional bench with the leg curl unit that uses the V6's weight system. It's hard to confirm, and my local Hoist dealer is a bit uneducated about the product.

[oakvilleguy]

I mean realistically, you don't even need that functional trainer. A set of bands and a well put together bodyweight exercise regiment (along with good diet) will result in weight loss. My point was I would prefer to have the option of weights and a kettlebell or two.

Interesting point. If you do take that point to the extreme, I can just get a sack and fill it with rocks and perform various exercises with that. A sack is pretty cheap

Joking aside: I guess the lure to me of the function trainer is quite a bit. It's expensive yes, but that's worked as a motivator for me to use my Elliptical (still use it 4-6 times a week after 2 years of owning it) and I'm sure it will do the same for the same for the equipment.

Plus there's simple to follow diagrams where I can do multiple different exercises. Pulling a rubber band feels so ... mundane to me. I appreciate it's a completely valid exercise, but I think pulling heavy weights should yield better results than bands?

I know some of these units have bars that attach to the weights. What's the difference between barbells and just having the bar attached to the cable weights? Isn't it the exact same thing?

[Cpl.Girthington]

I know some of these units have bars that attach to the weights. What's the difference between barbells and just having the bar attached to the cable weights? Isn't it the exact same thing?

Exact same thing; no. The bar attached to a cable follows a fixed path. At times this will stress a muscle group more than a free path, but free weights involve a larger element of weight control. This will engage more muscle groups and result in more "strength". That's why someone earlier mentioned that a functional trainer is more of a bodybuilding tool than a strength building one. Bodybuilding tends to focus on a particular muscle, strength training tends to focus on incremental measurable increases in weight moved.

[oakvilleguy]

Exact same thing; no. The bar attached to a cable follows a fixed path. At times this will stress a muscle group more than a free path, but free weights involve a larger element of weight control. This will engage more muscle groups and result in more "strength". That's why someone earlier mentioned that a functional trainer is more of a bodybuilding tool than a strength building one. Bodybuilding tends to focus on a particular muscle, strength training tends to focus on incremental measurable increases in weight moved.

It's not a fixed path. It's attached to a cable on both ends so can move in the same manner as a barbell no?

[Cleveland33]

It's not a fixed path. It's attached to a cable on both ends so can move in the same manner as a barbell no?

yes, but not to the same degree as free weights. Function trainers are great, but when it comes down to it, nothing is going to be as versatile, efficient, and effective as free weights.

[oakvilleguy]

yes, but not to the same degree as free weights. Function trainers are great, but when it comes down to it, nothing is going to be as versatile, efficient, and effective as free weights.

Hi, thanks for the answer. My apologies if I pursue this a little deeper, I'm a bit of a stickler for details at times.

When you say degree, can you elaborate on that? They can travel freely in 3d and travel a long distance (I believe 8 feet). I'm confused to how a barbell is superior except for the 6" or so off the ground the system does not offer resistance at.

[Cleveland33]

Hi, thanks for the answer. My apologies if I pursue this a little deeper, I'm a bit of a stickler for details at times.

When you say degree, can you elaborate on that? They can travel freely in 3d and travel a long distance (I believe 8 feet). I'm confused to how a barbell is superior except for the 6" or so off the ground the system does not offer resistance at.

I don't know the physics of it, KBKB might be able to explain it.

By degree I meant the level of effectiveness. I might be wrong, though.

[Skyaura]

Hi, thanks for the answer. My apologies if I pursue this a little deeper, I'm a bit of a stickler for details at times.

When you say degree, can you elaborate on that? They can travel freely in 3d and travel a long distance (I believe 8 feet). I'm confused to how a barbell is superior except for the 6" or so off the ground the system does not offer resistance at.

Oakvilleguy,

First, like many here, I am a big proponent of the power cage and free weights. That said, I am a big fan of functional trainers and a big part of that is due to the enormous flexibility of that machine. One is able to do lower and upper body compound movements, along with ground base exercises as well as isolated exercises. Also, certain Functional Trainers such as the Tuff Stuff FTX and Cybex Bravo have a pad that allow for complete stabilization or partial stabilization for exercises.

They are not just for body building. Cable exercises have been incorportated in a number of athletic department's lifting programs, especially rotational exercises.

Just my 2cents.

[boxertim]

i tried the functional trainer at a gym close to me...i like the workout alot. i'm sure that it was a torque or a matrix. i have used it every time i go there and i have looked for used ones online to put in my gym.

good luck.

[thedickus]

Hi, thanks for the answer. My apologies if I pursue this a little deeper, I'm a bit of a stickler for details at times.

When you say degree, can you elaborate on that? They can travel freely in 3d and travel a long distance (I believe 8 feet). I'm confused to how a barbell is superior except for the 6" or so off the ground the system does not offer resistance at.

For your goals they are the same thing. The bar pretty much travels freely and your body isn't going to know the difference between the resistance offered from the functional trainer or the resistance offered from free weights.
Just stay patient and hopefully someone who's actually used the machines you're inquiring about will be able to give you some insight. You might even go over to the personal trainer section as I'll be many of those people have taken their clients through workouts on functional trainers and may have used the ones you're asking about. I used to be a trainer back in the late 90s but functional trainers weren't really in vogue yet in the midwest.

[Cpl.Girthington]

Oakville, don't want to give you the impression that using a functional trainer is a bad thing. I just took exception to the movements being described as the EXACT same as freeweight. Saying the weight moves in a fixed path means just that, on the functional trainer, or any selectorized piece the weight stack is sitting on fixed rails, and can only move up or down. The weight comes to your body via a cable and a series of pulleys. Your body is pulling against the pulley at whatever angle you select on the functional trainer (height of pulley is adjustable on, I think, any functional trainer). With freeweights part of the workout is controlling the path of the weight, functional trainers have a bit less of this component due to the reason mentioned above. I hope that clarified what I meant a bit. Your body will move through space in a very similar manner against resistance in either freeweight or selectorized cable exercises, arguments are often made as to which is better, but a large part of the arguments are going to stem from personal preference. I like functional trainers, and I commend you for doing your homework prior to purchase. In my home gym I have a selectorized multigym (bodycraft galena), leverage multigym (powertec wb-ms10), a power rack bench barbell and dumbbell setup. I have all that stuff cause I like it all, and because I feel and enjoy the differences between the types of resistance. Good luck, and as always, post pictures when you get your equipment up and running.

[RandyBA]

Functional trainers offer a great variety of exercises. I have the Inspire FT1 and love it. However that is not the only equipment that I use. I mix in dumbells and smith machine as well as free weight exercises for a well rounded program.

With space limitations the FT will give you alot of options.

[oakvilleguy]

So my wife told me that my new Torque F7 was just delivered. Can't wait to get home from work and start assembling.

[thedickus]

So my wife told me that my new Torque F7 was just delivered. Can't wait to get home from work and start assembling.

Outstanding. Did you get a bench with it that has the leg extension/curl attachment?

[oakvilleguy]

Outstanding. Did you get a bench with it that has the leg extension/curl attachment?

Sadly that is only available on the F5 (the lower end model).

[Jiminy16]

So my wife told me that my new Torque F7 was just delivered. Can't wait to get home from work and start assembling.

Hi,

I'm considering the F7 myself and would love to know what your experience with it has been.

Thanks!

[2bars]

I'm interested too, T-nation has an article "A Comeback for Lat Pulldowns?" involving one of these functional trainers. Too bad they're expense as hell or I'd get one. They do look a lot more comfortable for the arms than a single fixed bar, especially when we have joint problems and stuff. For couples like this, they could easily change the weights for different movements and do them in a safe way.