Has anyone here seen any significant results from using CLA or would i be better off trying something else?
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Thread: CLA results?
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02-05-2007, 08:24 AM #1
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02-06-2007, 06:39 AM #2
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02-06-2007, 06:54 AM #3
You're likely to get mixed reviews on this compound. I, myself say use it with better efficacy prediction if in appropriate quantity which will be weight-adjusted so it likely comes down to weight (volume of distribution).
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
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02-06-2007, 07:04 AM #4
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02-06-2007, 07:13 AM #5
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02-06-2007, 07:28 AM #6
just because I was asked nicely by the toad fellow...
http://forum.anabolicx.com/index.php?showtopic=1317
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
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Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 07:37 AM #7
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02-06-2007, 07:39 AM #8
Yes, dinoiii deals the good stuff - umm fatty acids of course.
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
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Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 07:41 AM #9
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02-06-2007, 07:48 AM #10
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02-06-2007, 07:50 AM #11
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CLA or Thermo CLA? I took both, thermo was for fat LOSS (thermogen) and CLA was to prevent fat expansion. On workout days I would take CLA in the morning and thermo before a workout, on off days I would take CLA in the morning and before bed. (you can take thermo all the time, but it costs more than CLA)
I saw very good results from the two at the beginning of my cut, I may invest in a bottle of CLA for my bulk now that I think about it to try to cut down on fat gain.. but we'll see.
Personally, I liked them both.
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02-06-2007, 07:55 AM #12
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02-06-2007, 07:56 AM #13
Well, in the name of EFA - I too would place them far ahead of CLA [insert ad for Vaporize here so thanks! lol - mind you all that this was an unpaid endorsement - HA!]
But CLA is tricky - there can ONLY be suggestion of RANGES of actual pertinent isomer vs. the suggestion of ad commonplace today as for companies not getting the chemistry as I mentioned in the link above.
All that said - I haven't an idea of what brand you took, the isomer concentration, nor if I am certain CLA is a "two-week" kind of thing but adipocyte size controller - again, combined with guarana is a different scenario, which doesn't sound like this is how you went about it.
I still suggest CLA to have very REAL effects when dosed accordingly and from the right source [stick with Tonalin].
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 07:58 AM #14Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
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02-06-2007, 08:01 AM #15
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02-06-2007, 08:18 AM #16Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
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For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 09:11 AM #17
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02-06-2007, 09:20 AM #18
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02-06-2007, 09:24 AM #19
Couple replies in rapid-fire response mode:
1. guarana - start with recommended dose on container [if tolerance yet to be assessed and you are NOT familiar with stims, start at roughly half]
2. not seeing "results" in the particular supplements to me should NOT include any/all CLA supps as they are BY FAR all NOT Created equal and I have had many the debate with various company owners about this very little pertinent fact....study results and this is ANY/ALL were done with Tonalin brand and NOT soomeone's suggestion of a 90% whatever....
In addition "results" would likely hinge closely on expectation - many don't remotely use it at high enough a dose for long enough a time then claim bogus - well, I'm calling bluffs - seriously on this one.
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 09:32 AM #20
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02-06-2007, 09:56 AM #21
If you're dosing appropriately - then yeah ... 6 weeks should be rather significant. However, there is a lot of information that suggests longer-term lower dosing may have benefit as well.
Let's consider the most recent study:
40 overweight adults 3.4 g per day over 6 months of CLA or Safflower (safflower was considered the "placebo" in this study).
CLA group: DEC 2.2 pounds body fat
Safflower group: INC 1.5 pounds body fat
Points:
(1) Subjects were NOT even on a caloric-restricted diet OR controlled exercise program
(2) Duration was over the holiday season where many people have 2-5 pound weight increase
Watras AC, Buchholz AC, Close RN, Schoellar DA. (2006). Conjugated Linoleic Acid Reduces Body Fat and Prevents Seasonal Weight Gain Among Overweight Adults. 2006 Experimental Biology Meeting Abstracts. The FASEB Journal; 20(4): Abstract ID 386.9
--> yes, it was 6 months, but the dose was only 3.4 grams. People tend to assume this to be the dose and then don't see something in like 2-4 weeks and write it off...the fatty acid is crap. This fatty acid is FAR FROM THAT - don't write it off...get as cheap a Tonalin-containing brand as is possible for sincerity of a trial and dose it accordingly if expected to have results (according to the dosing schemes I have suggested for quicker than 2 months - and added guarana to potentially eliminate adipocytes --- read: fat cells).
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 10:05 AM #22
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02-06-2007, 10:08 AM #23
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Amazing article.
I think that was the only long ass article that has ever kept my interest long enough for me to read the entire thing.
I was a little confused on the sesamin / guarana ordeal though.
You only suggest these two for Fatloss, not for Mass building. Why is this? Sorry if I just didn't understand it in the article.
I have been "bulking" for the last 6 months, and have put on a lot of muscle, but more fat than I'd like. While I still wish to gain strength and size, I need to lose some fat. Are sesamin and guarana not good for this?
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02-06-2007, 10:25 AM #24
You haven't read my stuff long enough to realize there is so many ways to get out quality info while keeping the reader's interest.
But thank you very much for the props.
I was a little confused on the sesamin / guarana ordeal though.
You only suggest these two for Fatloss, not for Mass building. Why is this? Sorry if I just didn't understand it in the article.
I have been "bulking" for the last 6 months, and have put on a lot of muscle, but more fat than I'd like. While I still wish to gain strength and size, I need to lose some fat. Are sesamin and guarana not good for this?
http://www.manupdb.com/viewtopic.php?t=848
It used to be thought that one of the isomers in CLA would promote muscle gain, whereas the other one would promote fat loss - I, myself am not necessarily even sold on the muscle gain per se, outside the fact that a particular level of fatty acid need be available to support the appropriate anabolic environment (androgen precursor, et al).
All of the respective fatty acids have their roles, your fatty acid regime more than anything should be tailored towards what you want to do. What I don't recommend is adding in the guarana in a proposed mass attack for that "article" (kind of just playing a member of a round table though, not really an actual article - will be doing those MUCH more in the coming months).
Sorry I haven't really posted a lot on bb.com since an article series of mine crept over here about 2 months ago...it has been rather hard keeping up with all of the slews of boards at your disposal since that time.
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 10:41 AM #25
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02-06-2007, 10:58 AM #26
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02-06-2007, 11:13 AM #27
It was VPX Thinfat, which is Tonalin. I was taking it twice of the 3 doses daily with caffeine (I don't know why you say specifically guarana). I wasn't using it as an "adipocyte size controller" since I was cutting and had no need to prevent them from growing.
2 weeks wasn't a long enough time frame to get a truly accurate measure of effectiveness, but I had run a bottle of CLA at 3 grams a day for a month a few years ago, and after seeing no results from it I wanted to take another approach.
Im not ready to completely rule CLA out as being completely worthless, but most people should be supplementing with Fish Oil, and then Sesamin before CLA if it is results that they want.
EDIT
Just one more thing to add, after using MCT oil pre-workout the past few weeks while going low carb, I have found it to be really effective and fueling early morning on an empty stomach workouts. Just another fat I would value far ahead of CLA.Last edited by Lonny; 02-06-2007 at 11:18 AM.
Don't Support Companies that are suing me!!
Lonny says
"Supplement your weakness"
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02-06-2007, 11:22 AM #28
Well, at least we can together spread the good news.
lol
I think it really comes down to a communication issue really. I am all about educating what studies really say, and how people can subsequently make them work in their own diets (the "real world" if you like) and through simple communication, not an ad campaign.
I certainly am NOT one to come on here and tell you the results will be like ephedra -or-clen...nor would I say it matches PH-style results, but there are ABSOLUTE INTRICACIES and IMPERATIVE THINGS that you can do to make supplement strategies act as just that - adequate "supplements" to proper/sound dieting.
Those that are looking for a fixtures to a crappy existence (read: sh*tty diet, et al) will NOT find it in my words - I don't have the answers on how to make the calories from that pizza you ate "go away" - and to that, I am sorry.
ok, I am done now...
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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02-06-2007, 11:26 AM #29
Just read the AE link you posted Dino and will need to read the other links and your other work.
I find I agree entirely with your stuff and found it a really good read. The only difference between our opinions is on the matter of CLA.Don't Support Companies that are suing me!!
Lonny says
"Supplement your weakness"
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02-06-2007, 11:36 AM #30
hey there Lonny,
I am hoping you weren't offended by anything I said. I am still offering support of CLA and for far different reasons than I would suggest MCTs, but let me get to that in a second because you said some things that I think would add significant value to the discussion.
First
I am unaware of which VPX product you speak - their old true CLA formula or the new one (the latter of which is a CLA plus formula - that was actually a down grade IMO). There are all sorts of issues that came out of the old formula because believe it or not CLA remains a calorically-dense item and taking those spoonfuls from the former version was a challenge to adequately measure.
As far as MCTs: these officially saw the light of day in development as caloric-sources for people with pathologic conditions that didn't allow normal absorption and utilization of long-chain fatty acids.
The problem that was discovered with these fatty acids in body composition domains is that you have to dose them super high to see the results you want...in fact, they don't possess thermogenic benefit unless they represent > 30 % of the total caloric tallies for each day (this translates into ingestion of about 45 grams of MCTs on a 2000 calorie diet...GOOD LORD) -uuuuummm, recall what I said above and if you think that CLA is not cost efficient dosing it as high as I have suggested, you will see MCTs are by far worse - plus its a difference between a polyunsaturate (CLA) and a saturate (MCT) which offers again another rationale of why and/or why not...but that is well beyond the scope of this thread.
This is my take but I am always welcoming of different thoughts...
I won't argue with anyone though - simple discussion
D_Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Industry Author & Product Development Consultant
---------------------------------
Please visit me at the "Ask Dr. Houser" subforum at www.leanbulk.com/forum.
For FREE Newsletter...send blank "SUBSCRIBE" email to askdinoiii@hotmail.com
Please do NOT email in regards to scripts or consults. Advice provided in my posts is for informational purposes ONLY and NOT meant to take the place of your own EXAMINING physician!
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