Why you should squat deep to improve your vertical.

[DNClay]

In light of a recent member(s) promotion of only doing quarter squats (trolling?)


The guys you see that consistently have the highest verticals aren't in the nba, they're in the nfl. Elite corners, safeties, receivers, wide receivers, tight ends, and linebackers routinely have standing verticals above 40" and max verticals a few inches higher. Why? There's more of an emphasis on strength training and....you ready?.....deep squats. Athletes in the NFL you'll notice all have extremely strong posterior chains. So it's not uncommon to see a 6'2" 250 player with a 40" vert.

Your glutes are a stronger muscle than your quads, just as your shoulders are stronger than your triceps. Most of your power generation on the vertical jump comes from your glutes in conjunction with the rest of your posterior chain. Being strong, flexible, and explosive in your hip extension is crucial. It shouldn't be a surprise why deep squats and deadlifts are most popular with athletes improving their vertical, you just can't hit your posterior chain as well with 1/4 squats. One thing that's great for improving your vert is squatting deep with chains. Once you get out of the bottom of the lift, the weight increases. So it's the best of both worlds: you're hitting the glutes like you would a deep squat, and putting up bigger weight like you would in a 1/4 squat.

Look, I was dunking at 6'2" 147. And i'm jumping higher than i ever have now at 190 and i'm not even training specifically to improve my vertical. I think losing weight to jump higher is only a good idea if you're fat, or bulked up like a competitive bodybuilder. Other than that there's no such thing as being too strong if you want to improve your vert.

Most of the time it's BS when you hear people say "Oh I don't have the right body for deep squats." Really? You think being 6'2" 147 with super long legs stopped me? Most athletes in the NFL for that matter have really long legs in proportion to their height. Squatting deep for the first few months is gonna feel weird and awkward, and your probably going to be putting up less weight than you think you should. It won't be fun. That's because your glutes, lower back, and core are underdeveloped. But once you get the hang of the deep, low-bar back squat, it'll become your favorite exercise.

Believe who you want, but I went from being a skinny ******* with decent hops to gaining 40-plus pounds and getting up higher on a windmill off the dribble than Adarqui does catching lobs on a basic dunk. I train legs less often than him as well, so I can still go to school, have a job, maintain a healthy social life, and spend time with the girlfriend. If you aren't born naturally springy, improving your deep squat along with some plyometric training is your best bet improving your vertical.

Oh.... and I have a more desirable physique to the ladies.


Oh.... and..... a few years ago @170lbs or so....





'Why the need for full range movements??'

"Along these same lines many people will ask, "Since during a vertical jump one only descends into a 1/4 squat position, then why should they do loaded squats with a full range of motion going past parallel?" Again, realize the purpose of strength training is to improve the general strength of the muscles involved. The fact is that a full deep squat is better at strengthening all the muscles involved in the vertical jump, despite the fact that one is capable of using much more weight in a 1/4 squat. A full squat fully activates the muscles of the quadriceps and also strongly engages the hamstrings, glutes, and even calves. Not only does this build strength, but it also keeps the lower body in developmental balance and helps prevent knee injuries and muscle strains. A 1/4 squat doesn't strengthen the muscles of the posterior chain nearly as well and also puts a lot of stress on the tendons of the knee. However, there is a time when the 1/4 squat can be effective. That is after the base of strength has been developed. The 1/4 squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance [sic] strength development. If I could throw out one piece of advice to every young athlete it would be, "Do squats and do them full and deep!" "

Kelly Bagget
Vertical Jump Bible
P. 16

.................................................. ............................................

More from Bagget on partial squats and full squats:

Taken from: http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...answers67.html

"Q: What do you think of supramaximal methods such as heavy partials, limited ROM exercises and holds for building strength and size? I read your Templates article and most of your others and don't ever recall you using things like board presses, lockouts, holds etc.

A: I recommend them sometimes but not really in the traditional sense. Partials, heavy supports, supramaximal holds, and limited ROM isometrics all pretty much all work via the same mechanisms.

They increase strength 2 ways. First of all, they can "temporarily" increase neural drive. Say you take a heavy weight out of the bench press rack and either hold it for 10 seconds or do partial reps for 10 seconds. After the hold your ability to then lift a heavy load in normal fashion is temporarily enhanced. This is due to increased sensitivity of the contractile proteins that effectively bind up large amounts of calcium that were released during the supramaximal hold. Therefore, due to enhanced force of the mechanical twitch, you temporarily end up stronger than before. This is why I've told some lifters I was training for powerlifting to unrack a supramaximal bench press and simply hold it for about 5-10 seconds about 5 minutes prior to their heaviest bench attempts in competition.

Additionally, by loading up and emphasizing certain parts of a movement with supramaximal weight, you can prolong the level and duration the muscles are under tension. Thus partials, holds, and isometrics can be good for increasing strength in the "sticking point" of a movement. This is why I often prescribe them for bodyweight exercises like chinups and why some variation of "partial holds" are included in most gymnastics progressions. If you can't do a chinup and the tension you can generate at the midpoint of the movement is what's holding you back strengthwise, how much time under tension do you get in the midpoint of that movement in a standard set of 5 rep assisted chinups?? Maybe 5 seconds.

Now, say you start at the top of a chinup and lower yourself down to the midpoint and hold it for as long as you can, or do partial reps in that same limited ROM, both for say 10 or 20 seconds. Now you compare 20 seconds to 5 seconds. It's obvious the set of 10 or 20 second holds or partials can be better for increasing strength in the weak part of that movement cuz of the increased and lengthened tension you created in that ROM. Same with bench press. Powerlifters that wear bench shirts find the shirt lifts the bar about halfway up for them. So all they have to worry about is the top half of the movement. Which is why powerlifters do lots of "partial range" board presses and lockouts since the lockout is their "sticking point". That won't work for shirtless lifters though because their sticking point is more towards the bottom.

The bad thing about using those methods for strength is that the strength from a partial movement is fairly specific to the joint angle. In other words, the reason you see lots of guys in the gym that can do 1/4 squats with 405 pounds but can't squat an empty bar ass to the grass is because the strength they gain doing those 1/4 squats isn't transferable to the full range squat. Another thing is, it's very easy to get injured working with supramax loads associated with those methods. Working with the bodyweight is one thing but supramax bench presses, pulls and squats with heavy weights way above your maximum full range strength is another. Do that for a good while and you could very well end up being a Train Wreck.

Now what about size? There are bodybuilding books recommending schemes that consist nearly 100% of partial range training by loading up weight in the strong range of a movement and performing partial reps. (Static contraction training/power factor training by Pete Sisco). Basically, anything you do to place tension on a muscle group will develop strength or size to a certain extent. Bodyweight movements, pushing a car, throwing rocks, isometrics, positives only, negatives only, or whatever. There are plenty of ways to induce tensions and plenty of books on each one of those schemes alone.

Now, if the basic tenet of partial range bodybuilding were 100% true, then the guy squatting 405 in quarter squats would be a lot stronger in a full squat and have bigger legs then deep squatters wouldn't he? Yet, in the real world the reverse is true. If you unrack a bench press 200 pounds heavier then your max and do a bunch of partials, you will probably feel like you're "the man", and you'll temporarily probably be quite a bit stronger due to the potentiation affect I described above. You might also stimulate "some" chronic strength and growth, yet you DON'T fully activate and train all the muscles involved in the full range bench press or train "full range" strength.

Additionally, a bodybuilder using partial range supramaximal weights on every exercise for the whole body WILL over time strain the heck out of their joints, ligaments and tendons, little doubt about that. That's why most powerbuilders and guys who use a lot of heavy partials are almost always training around injuries. In fact the only time I've ever been hurt in the gym was following one of those types of routines for squats and I strained ligaments in my back!

So, for size improvements, the only time I'd recommend partials in the strong point of your ROM is when the ROM must be limited due to injury, or sometimes at the every end of the set when you do a static hold or partials to increase the length of stimulus on the muscle. Partials and isometrics etc. performed in the "weak" range of a movement have much greater value and greater overall carryover based on what I've seen in the real world and the research."

.................................................
Even more on squat depth from Baggert:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...danswers1.html



Fact of the matter is, Adarqui's program is the ONLY strength training routine aimed at improving vert I've ever seen that does NOT include parallel squats (or below). That doesn't make it wrong necessarily, but it goes against the more time-tested programs have have shown to significantly improve your vertical. If quarter squats really did a better job at improving your vert, one would expect more professional programs calling for them in place of full squats entirely. Besides, they're much easier to do. If it works for Adarqui, that's good for him. Keep going. But I, as well as many real strength coaches, performance coaches, and professional AT's see more results in utilizing full-range squats.

[efran1234]

lol the second pic looks like youre stepping off the truck

[DNClay]

^ i see that now that you mention it haha.... both trucks are parked in pretty much the same location, just lower angle on the second pic.

[adarqui]

this is quite possibly the most idiotic post I have EVER read..

In light of a recent member(s) promotion of only doing quarter squats (trolling?)

trolling? Verkhoshansky.com

The guys you see that consistently have the highest verticals aren't in the nba, they're in the nfl. Elite corners, safeties, receivers, wide receivers, tight ends, and linebackers routinely have standing verticals above 40" and max verticals a few inches higher. Why? There's more of an emphasis on strength training and....you ready?.....deep squats.

Uh what? The VAST MAJORITY of football weight rooms DO NOT have their athletes squatting deep. Half squats are KING in football weight rooms, ESPECIALLY high school. Every damn kid on the team is going above parallel to "pad their numbers" in your eyes. It is a rare occurrence when you see a football weight room using deep squats.

Wait, are you also trying to tell me that football player's have good form oly lifts now too?

Do we seriously need to go to youtube and point out the thousands of football players with hideous power clean form? You'd probably make the case though, that power clean is so important for vert, and then you'd get on someone for having "****ty form".

The vast majority of football players squat parallel or above, and have ****ty form on the oly variations.

Athletes in the NFL you'll notice all have extremely strong posterior chains. So it's not uncommon to see a 6'2" 250 player with a 40" vert.

These guys have extremely strong everything, including quads. The sport of football requires extremely powerful quads, due to a few factors:
1. Rapid acceleration
2. Rapid deceleration

Rapid deceleration for position players such as db's/WR's will develop extremely powerful quads. Are you seriously this clueless? Of course they have well developed glutes & hamstrings, they have well developed <EVERYTHING>.

Your glutes are a stronger muscle than your quads,

What do you base that comment on?

Does cross sectional area of muscle matter? I thought strength was directly proportional to cross sectional area of the muscle? You're telling me the glute max has more ability to hypertrophy than the Vastus Lateralis, Vastus Medialis, Rectus Femoris, and Vastus Intermedius combined?

Are you seriously this clueless?

Perhaps you should demonstrate a max effort glute bridge vs a max effort quarter squat with plenty of forward knee shift? If you compare closed chain or open chain exercises, i'd be willing to bet plenty of money thats knee extension would absolutely massacre hip extension.

Are you seriously this clueless?

You're telling me you can reverse hyper, controlled, more than you can knee extension?

Are you seriously this clueless?

just as your shoulders are stronger than your triceps.

Really? Again, CSA doesn't matter? What are you basing this on?

Are you trying to tell me the anterior deltoid is stronger than the triceps brachii, the 3 headed demon?

So, a much smaller muscle, the anterior delt, is stronger than the triceps?

Are you seriously this clueless?

Can you please demonstrate how the anterior delt is stronger than the triceps in an open chain isolation exercise?

You're telling me a DB front raise, strict & controlled is stronger than, for example, a strict and controlled skullcrusher?

Are you seriously this clueless?

Most of your power generation on the vertical jump comes from your glutes in conjunction with the rest of your posterior chain.

Really? What do you base that on, because if i actually gave a **** about your pathetic bitch ass i'd post hundreds of EMG/Peer reviewed studies which absolutely refute this extremely stupid and ignorant comment.

ARE
YOU
SERIOUSLY
THIS
CLUELESS?

SRS?

The quads are without a doubt the most important muscle group for VERTICAL DISPLACEMENT OF THE HUMAN BODY THE END SHUT UP THANKS.

Being strong, flexible, and explosive in your hip extension is crucial.

Cool i agree finally bro, good job, brownie points.

It shouldn't be a surprise why deep squats and deadlifts are most popular with athletes improving their vertical,

deadlifts by themselves are ineffective at achieving considerable gains in vert, what does this tell you?

Hold on, use your brain for a second... think................

A routine based solely on deadlifting is far less effective than a routine based solely on deep or half squatting, what does that tell you...

come on man

you

can

do

it


THINK...


Oh, right, quads.

derp.

Are you seriously this clueless?

you just can't hit your posterior chain as well with 1/4 squats.

You can hit your glutes extremely hard with HALF SQUATS, EMG studies support it, in fact, go ask glute guy.. Even glute guy would tell you that you are extremely clueless & have stupid pictures of you jumping in a swamp.

Here bro, here's something for you to read, which i'm astonished you even have the ability to do. I think you can read, but seem to have a problem learning.

http://tinyurl.com/4ph67ls

That's an article by GLUTE GUY, read it, look at the data, look at what a self admitted glute obsessed glutebrah has to say on the issue of vertical jump and quads.

When you're done reading that, perhaps you should shuttledock your own vagina with an enormous frozen terd.

One thing that's great for improving your vert is squatting deep with chains. Once you get out of the bottom of the lift, the weight increases. So it's the best of both worlds: you're hitting the glutes like you would a deep squat, and putting up bigger weight like you would in a 1/4 squat.

Ok so your entire post is void? Did you just void your own post with this statement?

Ok so check this, what if I half/quarter squat to hit quads harder, but do things like hypers/lunges/reverse hyper/other direct glute work, to hit the glutes.... hm..... this is what I advise actually, interesting... So you take the specificity of half squat, and still target glutes/hams with other exercises.. people might say, "well why not just deep squat then and half squat", well, maximal lifting both deep and half is pretty taxing, you can do it, i dont care, who cares, but better advice would be to either do this:

1. Transition from deep squatting to half squatting
2. half squat & hit glutes/hams with more effective exercises

Derp.

Are you seriously this clueless, you swamp jumping hillbilly?

Look, I was dunking at 6'2" 147.

Cool, I was barely touching 10' rim with my fingertip until age 26, worked my way up to 39, detrained completely, went back down to fingertip, and after 1 year of solely half squatting + direct glute/calve work, general upper, etc, am up over 39 and into 40 territory.

Oh no that's going to cause a ****storm, *runs away*

suck my god damn epic dick that I just raped you with.



oh ya, i can post pictures too bruh, cept, i have videos, you swamp jumping hillbilly, relax.

And i'm jumping higher than i ever have now at 190 and i'm not even training specifically to improve my vertical.

Cool, post videos bruh.

I think losing weight to jump higher is only a good idea if you're fat, or bulked up like a competitive bodybuilder. Other than that there's no such thing as being too strong if you want to improve your vert.

What does "weight" have to do with "strength". I'm not an advocate of gaining weight simply to gain weight, i'm an advocate of gaining relative strength, whatever lean mass gains that occur within that type of training are fine by me.

Most of the time it's BS when you hear people say "Oh I don't have the right body for deep squats." Really? You think being 6'2" 147 with super long legs stopped me?

Uhhhhh... Can you please show me a variety of basketball players squatting deep with good form? Pretty hard to find.... let's not forget that basketball/football players are not just "6'2", they are in the ranges up into 6'7 and higher, etc.. you want them squatting deep?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY THIS CLUELESS

Long limb short torso athletes have problems squatting deep FOR THE MOST PART.. Sure their are exceptions, some people have excellent hip mobility/ankle mobility naturally, but most lanky athletes do not, and even working on it extensively doesn't yield considerable gains in that department.

Video of your squat?

Most athletes in the NFL for that matter have really long legs in proportion to their height. Squatting deep for the first few months is gonna feel weird and awkward, and your probably going to be putting up less weight than you think you should. It won't be fun.

Right bro but add some chains so you can hit quads properly right?

lmfao

That's because your glutes, lower back, and core are underdeveloped. But once you get the hang of the deep, low-bar back squat, it'll become your favorite exercise.

Man, I got to pay you to give me a blowjob like you've just given deep squatting, pretty impressive. I like how you blow with your tongue out, **** is hot.

Believe who you want, but I went from being a skinny ******* with decent hops to gaining 40-plus pounds and getting up higher on a windmill off the dribble than Adarqui does catching lobs on a basic dunk.

But you're still a ******* and i'm The Next Zyzz, big difference.

Plus you have no videos, you have pictures of your hillbilly ass in a swamp jumping off mud.

Relax bro srs.







[quote] I train legs less often than him as well, so I can still go to school, have a job, maintain a healthy social life, and spend time with the girlfriend./quote]

Pics of your ugly gf? Thnx.

Well, weren't you dunking at 6'2 147, in high school etc?

I don't even think I could hit rim until senior year of high school, I have pretty impressive endurance genetics, absolutely no power naturally, hence my need to squat 1-4x/day.

Insult my work ethic, go ahead, you're the clueless dbag who just got butt****ed in front of bodybuilding.com

If you aren't born naturally springy, improving your deep squat along with some plyometric training is your best bet improving your vertical.

Oh.... and I have a more desirable physique to the ladies.

Pics?

Oh.... and..... a few years ago @170lbs or so....

Cool PICTURES BRO, might want to learn how to post a video one day. I like how you're stepping on the bed of that truck in the second pic, smart move, looks really cool.





Anyway, i've been getting negged to hell by clueless retards such as DNClay etc. If you read my post and think he is right & I am wrong, then you're also a clueless idiot. However, If you read my post and realize DNClay is a clueless idiot (which he is), rep the **** out of me, thanks. I don't really care about reps but i'm starting to realize all the clueless idiots are repped, such as cockeater and DNClay (swampjumper). So maybe it isn't a good idea for me to get reps.

Regardless, this forum is full of clueless idiots spewing out advice who don't know the least of a **** about performance training.

www.verkhoshansky.com, supertraining, science & practice, read, absorb, pubmed.com, relax, and remember Air Jesus luvs you that's why I go at bodybuilding.com to decimate the brainwashing broginas.

[squatnoob405]

Full Oly high bar back squats. bend knees and fold like an accordion. stop when hams are sitting on calves.

no sitting back / hip drive powerlifting style here:



and here is a proper jump measurement. standing vertical using a jump tester.



i prefer doing full squats for strength and eventually have its carry over to explosiveness.. but you just can't ignore the fact that training (squatting) with heavy weights in the jumping angle (half squat) does have a much more direct carry over to the improvement of the vertical jump.. so i do both.



YT kingfish405 if u want to see the vids

[DNClay]

Thanks for the above post squatnoob, and i agree with measuring your vertical that way as well. It's easier to get up when all you're doing is seeing how high your head goes. I wish I had access to one of those jump testers. Your standing vert is looking sick. You could also argue that deadlifts replicate the motion and range of motion of jumping. I prefer deep squats because they strengthen your glutes, hamstrings, and lower back, as well as strengthening your quads. I think (and so does Kelly Bagget and Allan Barch Jr-50inch standing vert.) parallel squats are the most important. 1/4 squats will only put you over the top once you built up a strong base, which is best done from doing full squats.... obviously you have those down if you're squatting 455 in the first pic...good job man

"This message is hidden because adarqui is on your ignore list."

Can't read what adarqui wrote, but i'm guessing it's full of callouts, taking what i said out of context, and insults.

If anyone wants a better, more professional explanation of why you should squat deep, check out Kelly Bagget's 'Vertical Jump Bible,' page 16 paragraph entitled "Why the Need For Full Range Movements??"

[xxtwistedxx]

Thanks for the above post squatnoob, and i agree with measuring your vertical that way as well. It's easier to get up when all you're doing is seeing how high your head goes. I wish I had access to one of those jump testers. Your standing vert is looking sick. You could also argue that deadlifts replicate the motion and range of motion of jumping. I prefer deep squats because they strengthen your glutes, hamstrings, and lower back, as well as strengthening your quads. I think (and so does Kelly Bagget and Allan Barch Jr-50inch standing vert.) parallel squats are the most important. 1/4 squats will only put you over the top once you built up a strong base, which is best done from doing full squats.... obviously you have those down if you're squatting 455 in the first pic...good job man

"This message is hidden because adarqui is on your ignore list."

Can't read what adarqui wrote, but i'm guessing it's full of callouts, taking what i said out of context, and insults.

If anyone wants a better, more professional explanation of why you should squat deep, check out Kelly Bagget's 'Vertical Jump Bible,' page 16 paragraph entitled "Why the Need For Full Range Movements??"

pretty much

[bigBOSSguy]

but ure 6 foot 2

can a 5 foot 10 person slam dunk ?

[jcameron28]

Thanks for the above post squatnoob, and i agree with measuring your vertical that way as well. It's easier to get up when all you're doing is seeing how high your head goes. I wish I had access to one of those jump testers. Your standing vert is looking sick. You could also argue that deadlifts replicate the motion and range of motion of jumping. I prefer deep squats because they strengthen your glutes, hamstrings, and lower back, as well as strengthening your quads. I think (and so does Kelly Bagget and Allan Barch Jr-50inch standing vert.) parallel squats are the most important. 1/4 squats will only put you over the top once you built up a strong base, which is best done from doing full squats.... obviously you have those down if you're squatting 455 in the first pic...good job man

"This message is hidden because adarqui is on your ignore list."

Can't read what adarqui wrote, but i'm guessing it's full of callouts, taking what i said out of context, and insults.

If anyone wants a better, more professional explanation of why you should squat deep, check out Kelly Bagget's 'Vertical Jump Bible,' page 16 paragraph entitled "Why the Need For Full Range Movements??"

Kellyb
Full Member
Posts: 139
Re: Adarq bio?
ADARQ.ORG > Introduction Area > Introduce Yourself >
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 02:55:13 PM »
0
Dude you should open your own training compound. Your knowledge on sports training is as good or better then anyone anywhere IMO. The thing that has always stood out to me is you're not afraid to experiment with all sorts of stuff, but you don't lose site of the big picture. I dunno, it's hard to explain. In my experience too many people in S&C are either sheep or overanalyzers to the extreme. They either follow whatever they were taught and don't venture outside of it or they get bogged down in so much irrelevant stuff their program as a whole loses value You bring more of a principle based artistic approach to training.





. . .umad?

[adarqui]

Can someone please quote my reply to DNClay (swampjumper) with his quotes in it as well?

I can't believe that stupid hillbilly ducked my posted which completely dismantles him.

[adarqui]

Kellyb
Full Member
Posts: 139
Re: Adarq bio?
ADARQ.ORG > Introduction Area > Introduce Yourself >
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 02:55:13 PM »
0
Dude you should open your own training compound. Your knowledge on sports training is as good or better then anyone anywhere IMO. The thing that has always stood out to me is you're not afraid to experiment with all sorts of stuff, but you don't lose site of the big picture. I dunno, it's hard to explain. In my experience too many people in S&C are either sheep or overanalyzers to the extreme. They either follow whatever they were taught and don't venture outside of it or they get bogged down in so much irrelevant stuff their program as a whole loses value You bring more of a principle based artistic approach to training.





. . .umad?

he's jelly bro.








Dear Andrew Darqui,

my sincere congratulations, I can consider you my colleague. You invented a new variant of Stimulation Method!

I suggest you to continue in your data recording concerning the increasing of vertical jump after tonic exercises so it will be possible to have the statistic parameters.

If you wish, I will publish your data in the site.

With my best wishes for your work,

Yuri Verkhoshansky










Andrew Darqui is probably the most under-rated S&C coach in the US. His knowledge and ability to apply Eastern Bloc training methods to speed-strength sports is something that I don't think can be rivaled by anyone. I fully expect Andrew to become a household name in the near future."


Kelly Baggett

Founder of Higher-Faster-Sports
Performance Consultant
Author of “The Vertical Jump Bible”
Author of The “Ultimate NO-BULL Speed Development Manual”
Author of “The NO-BULL Muscle Development Plan”





I don't think he expected me to become a household name among bodybuilding.com broginas though.

[adarqui]

Thanks for the above post squatnoob, and i agree with measuring your vertical that way as well. It's easier to get up when all you're doing is seeing how high your head goes. I wish I had access to one of those jump testers. Your standing vert is looking sick. You could also argue that deadlifts replicate the motion and range of motion of jumping. I prefer deep squats because they strengthen your glutes, hamstrings, and lower back, as well as strengthening your quads. I think (and so does Kelly Bagget and Allan Barch Jr-50inch standing vert.) parallel squats are the most important. 1/4 squats will only put you over the top once you built up a strong base, which is best done from doing full squats.... obviously you have those down if you're squatting 455 in the first pic...good job man

"This message is hidden because adarqui is on your ignore list."

Can't read what adarqui wrote, but i'm guessing it's full of callouts, taking what i said out of context, and insults.

If anyone wants a better, more professional explanation of why you should squat deep, check out Kelly Bagget's 'Vertical Jump Bible,' page 16 paragraph entitled "Why the Need For Full Range Movements??"

weakest reply ever, i hope you get negged into the red like the little bitch you are.

[adarqui]

I'll precede each one of these posts with: How come you broginas don't go at Joe Defranco? He has people squatting above parallel onto a box, he should be negged! Fgts. I hate box squat, so accumulating these pictures was an awful experience. I promote pin squatting over box squatting, much safer, and you can shift more emphasis to the quads if you so choose. In regards to vert:

free front squat > free back squat > pin back squat > box squat

I'm sure someone will link a football player going deep, but that's in the vast minority of nfl/ncaa football players.

Is joe defranco a member of HalfDepthNation????

[adarqui]

I'll precede each one of these posts with: How come you broginas don't go at Joe Defranco? He has people squatting above parallel onto a box, he should be negged! Fgts. I hate box squat, so accumulating these pictures was an awful experience. I promote pin squatting over box squatting, much safer, and you can shift more emphasis to the quads if you so choose. In regards to vert:

free front squat > free back squat > pin back squat > box squat

I'm sure someone will link a football player going deep, but that's in the vast minority of nfl/ncaa football players.

Is joe defranco a member of HalfDepthNation????

[adarqui]

I'll precede each one of these posts with: How come you broginas don't go at Joe Defranco? He has people squatting above parallel onto a box, he should be negged! Fgts. I hate box squat, so accumulating these pictures was an awful experience. I promote pin squatting over box squatting, much safer, and you can shift more emphasis to the quads if you so choose. In regards to vert:

free front squat > free back squat > pin back squat > box squat

I'm sure someone will link a football player going deep, but that's in the vast minority of nfl/ncaa football players.

Is joe defranco a member of HalfDepthNation????

[adarqui]

Why is DNClay not negged into the red & why don't I have 10000 reps by now?

DNClay is a little pussy, never have I seen such a wimp on a forum. "Calls someone out" then ignores their rebuttal which completely shreds him.

[adarqui]

roflmao.

[justib06]

roflmao.

your not a S&C coach. If you are, you have no clients. You spend to much time licking our "broginas" on here to have a job. Alls you do is rip apart each and every word a poster says so you really don't deserve anything but a ****ty rep. Theres always someone on the forum everyone absolutely detests, and that seems to be you mr. Christianmingle fgt.

[adarqui]

your not a S&C coach. If you are, you have no clients. You spend to much time licking our "broginas" on here to have a job. Alls you do is rip apart each and every word a poster says so you really don't deserve anything but a ****ty rep. Theres always someone on the forum everyone absolutely detests, and that seems to be you mr. Christianmingle fgt.

If you wish to address me further, please contact my secretary. Thank you.

[sailingpece]

OP doesn't know the first thing about vertical jump training....I would go about responding to every little piece of broscience that he spit out but adarqui did a great job with that so reps to him.

[viperjax]

The OP is wrong that most NFL players are squatting deep. I don't work w NFL football players but I have trained with college players and even the best ones are clearly not hitting PL parallel, much less ATG. You are looking at genetic monsters who could dunk in the 8th grade and extrapolating that it will work for the average bb.com reader.

On that note I don't do half squats personally because my knees are wrecked from doing them when I didn't know any better. If you have to take Advil due to joint pain after squatting you're probably doinitwrong in the long term. A lot of injuries show up much farther down the line..

Also umm.. adarqui is actually right.. the hamstrings are LESS important than the quadriceps in the vertical jump. BUT this needs to be stated with a caveat: this is because the hamstrings act as antagonists (read for more). In other words your quads, though they are are what regulates your vertical jump height, are limited by the strength of your hamstrings. Obviously the solution is to work them both.

[sailingpece]

The OP is wrong that most NFL players are squatting deep. I don't work w NFL football players but I have trained with college players and even the best ones are clearly not hitting PL parallel, much less ATG. You are looking at genetic monsters who could dunk in the 8th grade and extrapolating that it will work for the average bb.com reader.

On that note I don't do half squats personally because my knees are wrecked from doing them when I didn't know any better. If you have to take Advil due to joint pain after squatting you're probably doinitwrong in the long term. A lot of injuries show up much farther down the line..

Also umm.. adarqui is actually right.. the hamstrings are LESS important than the quadriceps in the vertical jump. BUT this needs to be stated with a caveat: this is because the hamstrings act as antagonists (read for more). In other words your quads, though they are are what regulates your vertical jump height, are limited by the strength of your hamstrings. Obviously the solution is to work them both.

One aspect of speed training that is specific to vertical jumping is to improve the ability relax the antagonist muscle while the prime mover is contracting....similarly, the best baseball pitchers are able to delay the contraction of their bicep muscle as they extend the elbow.

[adarqui]

Thanks sailingpece & viperjax for chiming in.

On ths issue of hamstrings, sailingpece is correct. However, there is a point at which the antaganoist must contract to protect joint stability, and in the case of jumping, knee hyperextension. Sailingpece eluded to this in his reply, just clarifying. So yes, in regards to vertical jump, more inhibition from the hamstrings as a knee flexor alone will lead to improved vertical jumping ability by allowing more force to be produced by knee extension (quads). The hamstrings are WEAK hip extensors in jumping, the majority of hip drive comes from the glutes. The most natural & best jumper's i've ever tested had extremely weak hamstrings in isolation (ham curl) and multi-joint (ghr etc).

With that said, the hamstrings still need to be strong to protect the knee & for other movements such as sprinting/cutting etc. But too often, people praise the hamstrings as being extremely important in vertical jumping, this is far from reality.

Vertical displacement of the human body is driven by quads, glutes, and calves. Powerful shoulder drive (flexion) is icing on the cake because of the cross-flexor extensor reflex. Improve your shoulder power while integrating this ability into various jumping movements, and you will have more ability to produce force through knee/hip extension and "plantar flexion" which is still really extension of the ankle.

peace

[ClimbingGiraffe]

Isn't the purpose of Box Squats different from that of the normal Squat? So comparing the slightly above Parallel Box squat to a normal Squat would be a fallacious argument wouldn't it?

Also wouldn't the Box in the Box Squat remove pressure from the knee joint, which is the main drawback to the above parallel Squat? One of the benefits of ATG Squating is supposed to be the fact it doesn't mess your knees up as badly, correct?

I'm no internet S&C coach, I'm just some random guy that's after a real answer.

[adarqui]

Isn't the purpose of Box Squats different from that of the normal Squat? So comparing the slightly above Parallel Box squat to a normal Squat would be a fallacious argument wouldn't it?

Also wouldn't the Box in the Box Squat remove pressure from the knee joint, which is the main drawback to the above parallel Squat? One of the benefits of ATG Squating is supposed to be the fact it doesn't mess your knees up as badly, correct?

deep squatting carries a higher risk of meniscus injuries than half squatting. Both half & deep are very safe though when progressed properly & form is kept safe. The injury talk regarding half squatting is blown way out of proportion imo, clueless broginas such as DNClay bring up incorrect facts such as football player's develop using deep squats etc, then he'd tell you that's why their knees are generally healthy except for impact injuries etc. Truth is, the vast majority of these athletes half squat, and their knees are just fine. Most injuries in football come from impact or from torsional movements in cleats at high speed, none of which is mad any safer had they deep squatted.

You'll get a wide range of answers among old timers who spent their days deep squatting. Some will say they are fine, others will say it wrecked their knees and now they "squat half" etc. Everyone is different, much of what causes all of the knee ailments is a host of issues including diet, playing through injury, bad sleep, training too much and too long, carrying too much fat, bad form on lifts, injuries during sport, etc..

I'm no internet S&C coach, I'm just some random guy that's after a real answer.

peace

[Willhu12]

Highest verts are from Olympic weightlifters, not the NFL.

PS: Glute guy is arrogant, ignorant and fradulant. He is NOT the world expret on the gluteus maximus/medius/minimus or hamstring muscles.

PPS: Got nothing against QTR squats BTW, just don't like to do them, makes me feel like I'm taking the easy way out.

[adarqui]

Highest verts are from Olympic weightlifters, not the NFL.

possibly, but we'll never know now will we, there's no Olympic Lifter Combine on OlyLift Network now is there?

And if this were true, which it quite possibly is, what does that say about vert? Yet again, it indicates that it is dominated by quads & RFD.

PS: Glute guy is arrogant, ignorant and fradulant. He is NOT the world expret on the gluteus maximus/medius/minimus or hamstring muscles.

He's well respected on the internet for what it's worth...

PPS: Got nothing against QTR squats BTW, just don't like to do them, makes me feel like I'm taking the easy way out.

If it makes you feel like you're taking the easy way out, then you need to realize that's a brainwashed symptom manifesting itself. There's optimal or non-optimal. If something is optimal it cannot possibly be considered an "Easy way out". That's like being a strongman and never doing "cheat curls", talking **** about them etc.. Effective exercise for strongman competitors or for maximal bicep development in general, though it caries it's risk, but to simply diminish their effectiveness and importance because someone calls it "cheating", shows ignorance. Same issue with half squat vs deep squat issue that all of the broginas on this site get worked up about.

adios

[Gamebreaker3233]

I think both types of squats have their place. If one is a beginner going down to parrallel would be more beneficial in the long term. I don't understand why adarqui squats everyday multiple times a day. If one squats twice a week perhaps work up to a max set in the full squat and one set in the half squat.

[Willhu12]

possibly, but we'll never know now will we, there's no Olympic Lifter Combine on OlyLift Network now is there?

And if this were true, which it quite possibly is, what does that say about vert? Yet again, it indicates that it is dominated by quads & RFD.






He's well respected on the internet for what it's worth...




If it makes you feel like you're taking the easy way out, then you need to realize that's a brainwashed symptom manifesting itself. There's optimal or non-optimal. If something is optimal it cannot possibly be considered an "Easy way out". That's like being a strongman and never doing "cheat curls", talking **** about them etc.. Effective exercise for strongman competitors or for maximal bicep development in general, though it caries it's risk, but to simply diminish their effectiveness and importance because someone calls it "cheating", shows ignorance. Same issue with half squat vs deep squat issue that all of the broginas on this site get worked up about.

adios

So is Mark Rippetoe.

[sailingpece]

Highest verts are from Olympic weightlifters, not the NFL.

PS: Glute guy is arrogant, ignorant and fradulant. He is NOT the world expret on the gluteus maximus/medius/minimus or hamstring muscles.

PPS: Got nothing against QTR squats BTW, just don't like to do them, makes me feel like I'm taking the easy way out.

Not true...guys in the NFL get plenty of stimulus with direct jumping and sprinting....olympic lifting is just a bunch of movements that express strength, it may improve vertical jumping but ultimately its the very act of jumping itself that will bring about the most direct gains as far as improving your vertical is concerned.