Best form of self defense?

[ThatBigSwole]

Id say mma, simply because everysingle martial art has a downfall somewhere wether it be ground game or striking,etc. many people(above) actually dont know much about the martial art theyre suggesting.

[SimonThePieman]

A few of you have taken a few points and run with it.

I'm not say KM is better than others because of groin or eye strikes. Its the mentality of finishing asap by any MEANS necessary that makes it dangerous.

At the end of the day its application, not knowledge.

I've trained BJJ with mundial champions, I've trained MMA with UFC fights (this is quite some ago and no I never competed. I got to a high level Blue in BJJ and am too pretty for MMA) so i've seen some very good instructors. I've never trained KM or any type of kung fu.

But the 2 people i've seen who looked the most dangerous were a wing chun guy and KM coach. Now I'm not saying the arts are better. But I know for a fact both of those guys have been in some serious scraps and now how to apply fist to face + friends. The wing chung guy was a very small guy, but hard as nails and 20 years on the door in a rough hood certainly put things to practice. He wasn't crane kicks and trapping in sparring. It was street boxing for lack of a better term

The KM, was ex Israli military and those guys donned masks and armour and sparred scenarios live. It looked ****ing mean. Mind you i have seen KM coaches that look like Thai bo instrctors.

What i will say for MMA classes is that anyone that has live sparing will be good as you can't hide behind lycra and theory when you throw down properly. There are no gimmick when its full rules sparing.

As someone said. Choose an art that is effective (internet arguing will prove there is no 'best') get good at it. And you will be better at looking after yourself than before.

The

[maccer21]

all im going to say is, with boxing a good and speedy 3 punch combination is all you will need to floor an attacker. you can have him hit 3 times before he even realises hes on the ground. you shouldnt really need anything else imo. if you can do that well then your sorted

[smokeater]

Never heard of systema...interesting.

Should point out though that jui jitsu and kickboxing are also martial arts. The sport version is taught pretty differently as you mentioned so it's important for people to realise whether they're learning the martial art or the sport version of each.

Systema is what the Soviets have used for a long time. North American Systema is mostly what Vladimir Vasiliev brought over from Russia. In the US or Canada I wouldn't trust any form of Systema that doesn't have affiliation with him. I don't know of any other credible instructors outside his circle.

I think there is value in learning a number of different martial arts and self defense systems. They all have something of value to offer, even the sport arts.

[TheHunter09]

Basically I'm just wondering what you guys reckon is the best form of self defense for example boxing over kick boxing?
Just looking for opinions here not including guns/ weapons...

Thanks!

You will not get a right out answer as there is not one, i am a former pro boxer and karate brown belt whos career was cut short with a broken neck so i know my stuff. There are many things you could learn but never stick to one disepline for to long.
Boxing is the best for quik feet and punches and lateral movement, gracie ju jistu is great for submission holds/locks ect, karate and kung fu are also good more for knee strikes and kicks, along with savate and krav maga (israeli army seld defence).

I would reccomend to start with a 12 week boxing plan, followed up by either savate, or karate for another 12 weeks, then perhaps move onto mma for 12 weeks followed up by judo or ju jitsu for another 12. This is a one year training plan and will give you a good basic knowlege into each disepline. After this you will know which you prefer and stick to it, but you will still need to train in the others to keep your mind open.

Also look into jeet kune doe, a martial art founded by the late great bruce lee, this is a totaly unorthadox style which will teach you many things about the other diceplines.

[ClimbingGiraffe]

A full on groin strike not debilitating? BULL****! f you have ever experienced a true groin strike you don't need this explained to you

Gouging the eyes whle being choked not effective? BULL****! A good eye gouge can blind, and that is one of the innate terrors in a human's mind. No matter how much they want to continue wringing your neck, if you jam a nail into each of their eyes, they will withdraw out of sheer instinct. Hesitance on the part of the user is the biggest drawback to proper eye gouges, and a proper eye gouge attempt with little provocation is a good psychological attack as it instills a fear of blindness on the target.

Targeting the neck is ineffective? BULL****! The neck is especially hard to defend as it can be attacked from any direction to amazing effect, not just the throat.

[zeddo]

Either Full-contact Hapkido or MMA. Both are very practical and effective, but MMA you'll get results quicker as Hapkido (unless you have a master that teaches practical side of things early on, like mine) focus more on technique, and sparring / practical in-put later whereas MMA you'll be sparring very early on. Both are flexible, ie, they both have kicks, punches, elbows, knees, holds, chokes, ground fighting, throws (only Hapkido) etc etc.

Source: Did Hapkido for 2 years, and my instructor was also a MMA instructor, i would watch the MMA class train before mine.

[ClimbingGiraffe]

The best form of self defense is not a martial art. It's a mentality. Styles and forms are absolutely pointless. Aggression, common sense, a fundamental understanding of striking and restraining, and imagination used together is the ultimate self-defense.

A karate master may beat me soundly in a karate match, but in a real fight, he'd be in far more trouble than me if he lacked anything outside of karate.

[EpicBodyBuilder]

I'd go for MMA. If you have time, watch the movie Undisputed 3 ( if you haven't seen it yet ) It's a good source of inspiration. Undisputed 2 is also quite good though.

[illych]

Escrima is also quite useful as well. I know a few guys who have trained in it and carry ASP folding batons, and they will break bones like twigs.

Aggression, common sense, a fundamental understanding of striking and restraining, and imagination used together is the ultimate self-defense.

THIS.

Aggression > Technique

[MURDR]

all im going to say is, with boxing a good and speedy 3 punch combination is all you will need to floor an attacker. you can have him hit 3 times before he even realises hes on the ground. you shouldnt really need anything else imo. if you can do that well then your sorted

You're an idiot.

[NuggzTheNinja]

REAL KM, ie: the KM taught in the IDF, is broken down into two types of classic: KM aggresivut (aggression) and KM technit (technical). 90% of your classes are aggressivut, which is basically just receiving a massive asskicking from your instructor, guys in your unit, and yourself.

Lots of "run out of the circle" or "run through the wall of ppl", 100% force bodyshots only while your legs are tied together, you hold shooting positions and pushup position while the instructor gives you 100% kicks in the stomach, things like that. It's basically just made to get you used to taking hits. You put your hands up, they slap you in the face, kick you, etc.

The technical stuff isn't very technical at all. It's all weapon retention and weapon strikes. You learn how to beat someone to death with a rifle, which isn't really that complicated. They teach you some basic striking with a huge emphasis on knees-to-the-nuts, but you can't practice kneeling people in the nuts without losing friends fast. Most of the time you're kneeling a sleeping bag or beating it with a rifle.


Useful for a civilian? Not really, unless you a carry a rifle around.

[stefanuus]

Umm ive seen loads of street fights and been in a few and ive studied which art is the best for street fighting and there are a couple of factors that come into play....

VS an untrained person (person who has no or very little training in any art) that has no weapons boxing is the most efficient......u might as why well all you need is 1 punch to KO someone and since untrained people dont know slipping,ducking,blocking etc. u can take up to 7 guys at once(ive seen it more then once) if your strong and fast.....ofc you cant train boxing for a couple of weeks and expect to do this,just train hard and be dedicated and ull become better every day.........now VS an untrained person with a weapon Krav maga or something like that is probably the best since well obvious weapon defence,altho not that good vs an unarmed opponent(especially vs multiple opponents).......now vs multiple opponents with weapons with weapons there is no art that can help u sadly

VS a trained person (that trains some combat sport/martial art and is good at it)....it depends on the number of opponents and what sport they train.........if its a 1v1 fight then MMA is best.....but most street fights are not 1v1 so a striking art like Muay thai or boxing is best way to deal with this situation since if u take someone down their friend could just kick u off or choke u easily.


so yeah thats what ive come up with studying street fighting........also one very important thing in a street fight fight dirty..........use ur training but dont limit urself to it uppercut them in the balls....use pressure points if it comes to grappling.....grab their throat,squeez it and punch them in the face.....pull their hair,bite,headbutt etc. If you combine your training with dirty tactics u will be deadly...........and also remember to workout for strength,speed,conditioning(not that important in street fights but still :P)

[Da-Risin-Smoke]

A full on groin strike not debilitating? BULL****! f you have ever experienced a true groin strike you don't need this explained to you

Gouging the eyes whle being choked not effective? BULL****! A good eye gouge can blind, and that is one of the innate terrors in a human's mind. No matter how much they want to continue wringing your neck, if you jam a nail into each of their eyes, they will withdraw out of sheer instinct. Hesitance on the part of the user is the biggest drawback to proper eye gouges, and a proper eye gouge attempt with little provocation is a good psychological attack as it instills a fear of blindness on the target.

Targeting the neck is ineffective? BULL****! The neck is especially hard to defend as it can be attacked from any direction to amazing effect, not just the throat.

This guy is truly an idiot. I'm guessing you've never trained in martial arts before.

Are you going to think because someone has control of your large scale joints, such as your ankle, shoulder, or your neck, you're going to try to finger yourself out of a manipulation?

Good luck on that one chief.

The moment I get you in a choke and I catch you trying to gouge my eye, I'm going to break your neck.

[ClimbingGiraffe]

I have trained in some martial arts before, I took Karate for 2 years, but I realized how useless it was in a real situation. I then learned how to fight on my own, to great effect.

An MMA wannabe badass that started **** with me out of no where one night trying to take my wallet and phone. When he was on mount trying to choke me, I got one chance and I jammed my fingers into his eye and he let me the **** go screaming in pain like a little bitch. I kicked him in the face for good measure and took off running, easily diffusing the situation. I never saw him again tll this day, but I hope the ****er lost his eye.

The thing about a proper eye gouge is it should be done without hesitance or thought. You jam your finger into someones eye and dig into it with your nail and they won't sit there and think about choking you, they're going to stop everything and their whole world will revolve around that sudden searing pain in their eye(s).

Another time I was attacked by two Native guys in Canada, BC on the island, and had to fight them off. I stopped one by grabbing his balls through his little basketball shorts and squeezing hard before tearing at them like I was starting a lawnmower. He immediately fell over puking and crying and I elbowed the other in the face when he was in a state of shock at what he'd just seen. I again kicked him in the face when he was down trying to get up, and again ran for it.


When you're in a dangerous situation and it may come down to life or death fighting dirty (It's not even dirty, it's just smart), and doing so without any hesitance or thought will result in you winning almost 100% of the time. Thnking about and hesiantly/half-heartedly attempting to gouge someone's eye while they choke you is a good way to get a broken neck. Quickly jamming your thumb into someone's eye with the intent to stick it through the back of their head is a good way to get out of being choked.

[Sven Draconian]

In my life, I've found most people who are over, lets say, 260 pounds under 20% bodyfat don't have a lot of issues.

So, I'll suggest squatting and eating.

[Huke]

A full on groin strike not debilitating? BULL****! f you have ever experienced a true groin strike you don't need this explained to you

Gouging the eyes whle being choked not effective? BULL****! A good eye gouge can blind, and that is one of the innate terrors in a human's mind. No matter how much they want to continue wringing your neck, if you jam a nail into each of their eyes, they will withdraw out of sheer instinct. Hesitance on the part of the user is the biggest drawback to proper eye gouges, and a proper eye gouge attempt with little provocation is a good psychological attack as it instills a fear of blindness on the target.

Targeting the neck is ineffective? BULL****! The neck is especially hard to defend as it can be attacked from any direction to amazing effect, not just the throat.

Again, it isn't simply a matter of walking up and landing the eye gouge, throat strike or groin hit. The other guy has hands and feet too, and odds are, you've got eyes, a throat and a groin, not to mention a number of other targets you need to worry about.

I agree with you that these areas, when hit, can damage a person quite a bit. But, because of their vulnerability, your body is structured in such a way that these areas are protected. More importantly, people instinctively protect these areas. Think about it. When a person is about to get hit, they tend to shut their eyes and hunch over with their hands in front of them. Natural protection for all three of your favourite targets.

Hitting them works, but it isn't easy to land an effective strike. There are much higher probability of success targets that you can hit.

The best form of self defense is not a martial art. It's a mentality. Styles and forms are absolutely pointless. Aggression, common sense, a fundamental understanding of striking and restraining, and imagination used together is the ultimate self-defense.

A karate master may beat me soundly in a karate match, but in a real fight, he'd be in far more trouble than me if he lacked anything outside of karate.

I hope you're kidding. Could a guy with a few months of training taken from 5 or 6 different martial arts beat up Chuck Norris? I doubt it, but I'd still pay to see the attempt. Nom sayin?

I have trained in some martial arts before, I took Karate for 2 years, but I realized how useless it was in a real situation. I then learned how to fight on my own, to great effect.

An MMA wannabe badass that started **** with me out of no where one night trying to take my wallet and phone. When he was on mount trying to choke me, I got one chance and I jammed my fingers into his eye and he let me the **** go screaming in pain like a little bitch. I kicked him in the face for good measure and took off running, easily diffusing the situation. I never saw him again tll this day, but I hope the ****er lost his eye.

The thing about a proper eye gouge is it should be done without hesitance or thought. You jam your finger into someones eye and dig into it with your nail and they won't sit there and think about choking you, they're going to stop everything and their whole world will revolve around that sudden searing pain in their eye(s).

Another time I was attacked by two Native guys in Canada, BC on the island, and had to fight them off. I stopped one by grabbing his balls through his little basketball shorts and squeezing hard before tearing at them like I was starting a lawnmower. He immediately fell over puking and crying and I elbowed the other in the face when he was in a state of shock at what he'd just seen. I again kicked him in the face when he was down trying to get up, and again ran for it.


When you're in a dangerous situation and it may come down to life or death fighting dirty (It's not even dirty, it's just smart), and doing so without any hesitance or thought will result in you winning almost 100% of the time. Thnking about and hesiantly/half-heartedly attempting to gouge someone's eye while they choke you is a good way to get a broken neck. Quickly jamming your thumb into someone's eye with the intent to stick it through the back of their head is a good way to get out of being choked.

Congrats on winning a few fights against a couple of tough guys with no idea what they're doing. Its a good thing you didn't get charged for taking things over the top.

[hayekz]

I trained Kyokushin as a kid until I was about 14, enjoyed it.

Started Muay Thai a few months ago and really enjoying it.

If I had to pick between the 2 I might be swayed to Muay Thai mainly because it offered what I wanted from a MA class: conditioning and learning to fight.

Kyokushin is very effective, but its too old school for my liking these days with an emphasis on katas and other stuff from a syllabus that you would probably never use. If you want to choose a martial art you should look at what you want from it, do you want to be involved with the spirtual/arty side of it, or do you want to partcipate in a sport?

[34pdaddy11]

Krav Maga by far, its what the Israeli army and special forces uses as well as most major black ops(cia), its used often as a counter-terrorism martial art and is one of the more practical ones too.

cant add links yet, so search this on youtube and it click the first video- Krav Maga Trainer!_ Roy Elghanayan _

[ClimbingGiraffe]

Again, it isn't simply a matter of walking up and landing the eye gouge, throat strike or groin hit. The other guy has hands and feet too, and odds are, you've got eyes, a throat and a groin, not to mention a number of other targets you need to worry about.

I agree with you that these areas, when hit, can damage a person quite a bit. But, because of their vulnerability, your body is structured in such a way that these areas are protected. More importantly, people instinctively protect these areas. Think about it. When a person is about to get hit, they tend to shut their eyes and hunch over with their hands in front of them. Natural protection for all three of your favourite targets.

Hitting them works, but it isn't easy to land an effective strike. There are much higher probability of success targets that you can hit.

I'm not saying go just for them at all. I was just arguing that they are effective when employed successfully, so knowing how to do them right is a major plus. You're arguing about something I never said. I said they were effective, not the only thing you should know.

I hope you're kidding. Could a guy with a few months of training taken from 5 or 6 different martial arts beat up Chuck Norris? I doubt it, but I'd still pay to see the attempt. Nom sayin?

A guy with a few months of training in any real fighting situation could potentially take chuck norris simply by the nature of fighting itself. It's unpredictable. That said, I'm certain that if Chuck Norris were restricted to Karate, he would be at a severe disadvantage against someone without that handicap.

An aside, I personally don't like the Martial Arts that drill rigid forms into you. People say that they've lasted so long because they're effective, but you have to realize most of these things were developed in a time when the people you were most likely to use it on, were people trained in the exact same thing. In that case, it came down to who was better within that system, not who was better.

The Samurai are a perfect example. They developed a multitude of martial arts styles, and they became renowned as amazing warriors. You always hear about how great they were at war as it was their profession. But then come the Mongols. The Mongols came along and initially crushed them before suffering from the "Kamikaze" and withdrawing. When their styles of war were put to test against something outside of their rigid system, it was beaten handily.

Congrats on winning a few fights against a couple of tough guys with no idea what they're doing. Its a good thing you didn't get charged for taking things over the top.

Most situations where you're attacked, you're not fighting Iron Mike, Bruce Lee, or Randy Couture. You're usually fighting random *******s. For self defense it's usually going to be enough to know how to protect yourself from said random *******s and not worry about Cain Velasquez coming for you.

Also, taking it over the top? Are you retarded or something? A guy jumps me telling me he wants my wallet and phone and proceeds to tackle me, climb up, and choke me and I'm taking something over the top? Or another situation where I'm attacked and on the ground fighting against two violent strangers, I "start the lawnmower" and I'm taking it over the top? What kind of ****ed up world do you live in?

[Huke]

Also, taking it over the top? Are you retarded or something? A guy jumps me telling me he wants my wallet and phone and proceeds to tackle me, climb up, and choke me and I'm taking something over the top? Or another situation where I'm attacked and on the ground fighting against two violent strangers, I "start the lawnmower" and I'm taking it over the top? What kind of ****ed up world do you live in?

Canada

[DamianD]

As stated previously, jiu jitsu is an effective form of martial arts but it's not very practical for self defense. Jiu Jitsu works off of timing and the opponents movements. You either counter them or use them against them. This means you can end up on your back and you will be on the ground.

Now if you're attacked by some guy and he has friends, jiu jitsu sucks. You're on the ground and although you may be capable of grabbing the guys arm and breaking it, you're getting kicked in the face. Not good..

You want to get an overall feel of every art for the best self defense. Boxing,kickboxing, mauy thai, will help you with your stand up game. Don't just do boxing though because with kickboxing it helps you keep your distance. Ground game is however important though since jiu jitsu would help you get back to your feet, so once again. You want to learn more than one thing.

[gixxer0.6g]

I've found getting my conceal permit and a small pistol has been the easiest.

[DamianD]

I've found getting my conceal permit and a small pistol has been the easiest.

Made me laugh.. Not legal in IL though. =/

[Da-Risin-Smoke]

As stated previously, jiu jitsu is an effective form of martial arts but it's not very practical for self defense. Jiu Jitsu works off of timing and the opponents movements. You either counter them or use them against them. This means you can end up on your back and you will be on the ground.

Now if you're attacked by some guy and he has friends, jiu jitsu sucks. You're on the ground and although you may be capable of grabbing the guys arm and breaking it, you're getting kicked in the face. Not good..

You want to get an overall feel of every art for the best self defense. Boxing,kickboxing, mauy thai, will help you with your stand up game. Don't just do boxing though because with kickboxing it helps you keep your distance. Ground game is however important though since jiu jitsu would help you get back to your feet, so once again. You want to learn more than one thing.

BJJ is a great self-defense art. I don't know what you're talking about. Have you seen what people with experience with ground game do to people that have no clue?

BJJ is a defensive art, and an art of patience. Notice how BJJ places teach defense against takedowns, but don't do a good job teaching how to takedown, unless the person has had experience in Greco-Roman Wrestling or Judo.

I don't want to go to the ground if possible, I want to stay on my feet. However, should the situation arise, I want to be prepared.

Even though, I'd prefer to take my assailant down to where he has the MOST disadvantage.

[SimonThePieman]

I have trained in some martial arts before, I took Karate for 2 years, but I realized how useless it was in a real situation. I then learned how to fight on my own, to great effect.

An MMA wannabe badass that started **** with me out of no where one night trying to take my wallet and phone. When he was on mount trying to choke me, I got one chance and I jammed my fingers into his eye and he let me the **** go screaming in pain like a little bitch. I kicked him in the face for good measure and took off running, easily diffusing the situation. I never saw him again tll this day, but I hope the ****er lost his eye.

The thing about a proper eye gouge is it should be done without hesitance or thought. You jam your finger into someones eye and dig into it with your nail and they won't sit there and think about choking you, they're going to stop everything and their whole world will revolve around that sudden searing pain in their eye(s).

Another time I was attacked by two Native guys in Canada, BC on the island, and had to fight them off. I stopped one by grabbing his balls through his little basketball shorts and squeezing hard before tearing at them like I was starting a lawnmower. He immediately fell over puking and crying and I elbowed the other in the face when he was in a state of shock at what he'd just seen. I again kicked him in the face when he was down trying to get up, and again ran for it.


When you're in a dangerous situation and it may come down to life or death fighting dirty (It's not even dirty, it's just smart), and doing so without any hesitance or thought will result in you winning almost 100% of the time. Thnking about and hesiantly/half-heartedly attempting to gouge someone's eye while they choke you is a good way to get a broken neck. Quickly jamming your thumb into someone's eye with the intent to stick it through the back of their head is a good way to get out of being choked.

This chap hasn't presented himself that well (the story couyld well be false), but he's ultimately correct.

Most people are prepared to fight and the first one to inflict some serious damage is normally the one who wins.

Having training can help get you into that situation better than someone without, but then there is the attitude to execute it

[Da-Risin-Smoke]

Good lord, I should post this thread on Bullshido.

[DamianD]

Gah, I can't quote because I'm on my phone.

Like I said, BJJ is great but not the most effective. Even though most fights end up on the ground it's not practical if you're getting attacked by more than one person. OP isn't looking to win a cage match, he's playing self defense.
Anyone that thinks BJJ is the most effective self defense is an idiot. I'm sorry, it's a great art but not for self defense. Especially since a lot of schools teach it with gi's.

[jorairdan]

everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.

[DamianD]

I got hit in the mouth. Stuck with the plan and got a triangle, which turned into me punching my best friend in the face because of miscommunication..
I asked if he was good.. He said yes.. So I kept punching him until everyone realized that "I'm good" means I'm done..

Either way we have a saying in our gym.

Punch a black belt BJJ artist and he drops to a brown belt. Punch him again and he's a purple belt.. Hit him again and he's lost the fight. This goes for the guys that only do BJJ.