Clinical proof that high-grade Tribulus works!

[scarboro]

I've been posting studies that clearly show it has NO effect on test/androgenic properties.

OP, POST AN ABSTRACT ?

[FullMetal]

Then you're **** out of luck, loser. I'm not your teacher. Get off your ass and learn something. Or don't. its irrelevant to me.

I made this thread to back my statements from last night, not to hand-hold skeptics who are too study-shy to follow up on the information I provided.

lol you are so mad.

This thread will fail too. You are pedaling placebos.

[DesireToGrow]

lol you are so mad.

This thread will fail too. You are pedaling placebos.

for shizzle my nizzle.

OP you better chill with the insults. This isn't the misc.

[C-Squared]

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players.

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.

This exact test was quoted last night. Provide information on the tested extract's country of origin, the concentration of the extract, and the part of the herb used. According to the published studies to which I provided links, these factors are crucial in the effectiveness of the Tribulus extract.

You'll find that every test that renounces Tribulus as a useful herb fails to mention any of these key factors, due to what I can only imagine is a total lack of knowledge in the proper handling of herbs. Without the proper constituents, Tribulus is just a weed... with them, its a very useful herb!

[FullMetal]

I've been posting studies that clearly show it has NO effect on test/androgenic properties.

OP, POST AN ABSTRACT ?

He won't. Even if he does it will have nothing to do with the point of the thread. He will just talk about how it is the "wrong kind" and "not from the right country"

BRB have to eat. Just did more volume in one back workout than C-Squared does in two months.

[C-Squared]

lol you are so mad.

This thread will fail too. You are pedaling placebos.

Not at all. Now read the information I have provided (I even posted a summarized version), or cry yourself to sleep when I reply to nothing else you write in this thread. Your complete lack of knowledge on this subject makes me think you'd be better suited in another section. The real men are talking - goodbye!

for shizzle my nizzle.

OP you better chill with the insults. This isn't the misc.

oops, it was when I first posted it haha, it must have been moved... my bad!

[shot_gun]

Tribulus worked for me (well Animal Stak and Dymatize z force which both had a ton of tribulus in it) went from 141 to 152 and my body fat (because of metabolism) is still low. Even though that it actually works, you are just wasting your time explaining because obviously, nobody isnt going to believe you.

SOOO


JUST LEAVE IT.

**** THE STUDIES MAN.

LET THE THREAD DIEEEEEEEEEEE

[C-Squared]

I've been posting studies that clearly show it has NO effect on test/androgenic properties.

OP, POST AN ABSTRACT ?

Look up the links, breh... the tests I cited clearly show that Tribulus stimulates a "middle man" hormone that itself boosts testosterone.

Thank you for revealing another glib assumption about Tribulus - it is not a "T-booster." increased testosterone IS an effect of it, but what it does in the body is stimulate pituitary LH.

[C-Squared]

Tribulus worked for me (well Animal Stak and Dymatize z force which both had a ton of tribulus in it) went from 141 to 152 and my body fat (because of metabolism) is still low. Even though that it actually works, you are just wasting your time explaining because obviously, nobody isnt going to believe you.

SOOO


JUST LEAVE IT.

**** THE STUDIES MAN.

LET THE THREAD DIEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm actually on my way out to dinner now, but if you saw the lol-fest from last night, you'd know that I at least had to come on here and back what I claimed.

Now that I have, I don't expect any of the sycophants from last night to make a credible reply, but that's fine... just reaffirming that I can back up what I say

[aosch]

For the self-pandering germ incubators from last night who claimed I couldn't back my statements about MediHerb Tribulus extract being clinically proven to work... oh hai published sources:

Just looked up a few of these studies. All they say is protodioscin is present in TT. One particular mentions thats the best way to isolate the fractions is using an HPLC.

This info gives nothing about your claims, al lyour proved with these is that the saponin is present. Did you even browse through these studies yourself?

[legalgear]

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15.
The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.

Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

[legalgear]

Int J Androl. 2000;23 Suppl 2:82-4.
Phytochemicals and the breakthrough of traditional herbs in the management of sexual dysfunctions.

Adimoelja A.

School of medicine 'Hang Tuah' University, Teaching and Naval Hospital,Surabaya, Indonesia.

Traditional herbs have been a revolutionary breakthrough in the management of erectile dysfunction and have become known world-wide as an 'instant' treatment. The modern view of the management of erectile dysfunction subscribes to a single etiology, i.e. the mechanism of erection. A large number of pharmacological agents are orally consumed and vasoactive agents inserted intraurethrally or injected intrapenially to regain good erection. Modern phytochemicals have developed from traditional herbs. Phytochemicals focus their mechanism of healing action to the root cause, i.e. the inability to control the proper function of the whole body system. Hence phytochemicals manage erectile dysfunction in the frame of sexual dysfunction as a whole entity. Protodioscin is a phytochemical agent derived from Tribulus terrestris L plant, which has been clinically proven to improve sexual desire and enhance erection via the conversion of protodioscine to DHEA (De-Hydro-Epi-Androsterone). Preliminary observations suggest that Tribulus terrestris L grown on different soils does not consistently produce the active component Protodioscin. Further photochemical studies of many other herbal plants are needed to explain the inconsistent results found with other herbal plants, such as in diversities of Ginseng, Eurycoma longifolia, Pimpinella pruacen, Muara puama, Ginkgo biloba, Yohimbe etc.

[scarboro]

This exact test was quoted last night. Provide information on the tested extract's country of origin, the concentration of the extract, and the part of the herb used. According to the published studies to which I provided links, these factors are crucial in the effectiveness of the Tribulus extract.

You'll find that every test that renounces Tribulus as a useful herb fails to mention any of these key factors, due to what I can only imagine is a total lack of knowledge in the proper handling of herbs. Without the proper constituents, Tribulus is just a weed... with them, its a very useful herb!

So we (the majority) have TONS of studies proving that an unidentified extract of trib fails to show any statistically significant test increases.

You meanwhile have a few studies documenting that steroidal saponins were discovered in tribulus by process of reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography. Steroidal saponins are THOUGHT to be precursive to anabolic steroids. These studies are by foreign/unheard of institutes btw.
There is no direct proof to link ANY trib to test increase.

Infact, I find it hilarious how your argument rests on the potential discovery of steroidal saponins WHICH in themselves have yet to prove any real results.

[shot_gun]

Look up the links, breh... the tests I cited clearly show that Tribulus stimulates a "middle man" hormone that itself boosts testosterone.

Thank you for revealing another glib assumption about Tribulus - it is not a "T-booster." increased testosterone IS an effect of it, but what it does in the body is stimulate pituitary LH.

actually it is a testosterone booster,

Do you know what LH does?

[legalgear]

Could very well be the herb supplier. I just debunked the ecdysterone myth that different extracts have different properties, but I did find that MOST suppliers sell a CRAP 90% UV scanned ecdysterone which is nothing close to HPLC tested. The 80% HPLC was china white and the UV was a nasty brown obviously no where near "pure".

[Skigazzi]

Can you post the studies or the abstracts you are claiming prove TT works instead of posting a picture of the bottom of the companies product spec sheet you are pimping here. Product spec sheet does not equal a 'source of reliable info".

Please do not post the Tribestan study that was paid for by the makers of Tribestan and never successfully duplicated. Lets just ignore that one for now, please provide something on the other ones.

[chlaxman]

I always LOL when people post abstracts to back their opinions

[panic91984]

Can you post the studies or the abstracts you are claiming prove TT works.

Please do not post the Tribestan study that was paid for by the makers of Tribestan and never successfully duplicated. Lets just ignore that one for now, please provide something on the other ones.

lol, I was having flashbacks myself:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=protodioscin

[FullMetal]

[scarboro]

Can you post the studies or the abstracts you are claiming prove TT works.

Please do not post the Tribestan study that was paid for by the makers of Tribestan and never successfully duplicated. Lets just ignore that one for now, please provide something on the other ones.

CLIFFS ON HIS STUDIES:
-WITH SOME HIGH TECH TESTING, IT SHOWS TRIB HAS SLIGHT AMOUNTS OF STEROIDAL SAPONINS
-STEROIDAL SAPONINS ARE THOUGHT TO INCREASE YOUR TESTOSTERONE (BY THE NATURAL HERB PRODUCING COMMUNITY)

Not only does trib NOT increase test levels directly, but it lies under the assumption that one of it's components has a possibility to increase test.

So basically he's saying:
Trib --->Steroidal Saponins ----> Test Increase

The fallacy here is that neither trib or steroidal saponins have been proven UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE TO INCREASE TEST.

edit: i'm out for the night, back to tmisc

[shot_gun]

LOL

.......

reped.

[Arlecchino]

I may have time to clean up the insults later.