Tribute Page to the GH GUT.

[leonidas300]

Sure, you are not automatically a hater, but many people on this board fail to give credit to Ronnie in general. His gut was apparant, yes, but those who only critizise his gut don't see that the rest of his body was in a league of his own.

I call someone a hater when he says: "look Ronnie is not a good bb, he had the worst gut".

Those people don't see his achievements and don't see that there are bblers with a worse gut than him (Fux, Nasser). Nevertheless. Ronnie had years where he had a bad gut, I never said sth different. But he could made up for this with his world class body IMO.

I didn't want to offend you, sorry!

Well that is where we disagree because personally I could care less how massive the rest of your body is unless that mass is accompanied with a tiny waist as epitomized by Lee Haney. I completely disagree with the judging over the past decade as I believe large waist have no part in bodybuilding, to me it runs counter to everything that bodybuilding is supposed to be about. However I recognize the many people disagree with my opinion and are entitled to that difference. This is like judging art work where personally I despise most abstract modern art and other people love it, both sides are correct, but that does not make either side a "hater".

[stealth_swimmer]

can't forget nasser...

Those are back poses. The judges don't see the waist there so a lot of competitors let their waists hang out there.

Don't get me wrong, Nasser's stomach was big but he usually held it pretty tight during contest.

[Vadim Beliaev]

Why is a person a hater when the praise another person's physique but critique another person's physique. I thought that was called intelligent criticism. I would love to have a physique like Arnold, Haney, Milos, and my ideal physique would be Bob Paris. I could only dream of looking like that and I can openly acknowledge when I am envious of another person's physique. I despise the way Ronnie looks and personally I think it is revolting. If a magical bodybuilding fairy (ohh the potential with that phrase) were able to sprinkle some magical GH dust on me and overnight I could have Ronnie's body with no work at all, I honestly would decline as I like my body better than his. Now if given the option to have Bob Paris's I would immediately accept the offer. I do not understand how having a aesthetic preference is hating, seems to me that people just throw around the "hating" word as a substitute for any kind of intelligent or rational discussion.

wouldnt be a problem if you just made your point once and were done with it
yet you are constantly around spewing **** about the IFBB pro division, in fact there are almost daily posts made by you how much the IFBB sucks, how the competitors have ruined their physiques, how the judging is screwed up etc blah blah blah

This my friend is HATING in its purest form

what is more, you have a choice of following feds that do stick to your aesthetic ideals. In fact you have so many natural feds some of which are truly natural and some of which are only "natural", but yet most of them cater to your examples of ideal physique.
You do know that those feds need your support?
What are you doing here still?

[John Doe X]

Why is a person a hater when the praise another person's physique but critique another person's physique. I thought that was called intelligent criticism. I would love to have a physique like Arnold, Haney, Milos, and my ideal physique would be Bob Paris. I could only dream of looking like that and I can openly acknowledge when I am envious of another person's physique. I despise the way Ronnie looks and personally I think it is revolting. If a magical bodybuilding fairy (ohh the potential with that phrase) were able to sprinkle some magical GH dust on me and overnight I could have Ronnie's body with no work at all, I honestly would decline as I like my body better than his. Now if given the option to have Bob Paris's I would immediately accept the offer. I do not understand how having a aesthetic preference is hating, seems to me that people just throw around the "hating" word as a substitute for any kind of intelligent or rational discussion.

Sure, you are not automatically a hater, but many people on this board fail to give credit to Ronnie in general. His gut was apparant, yes, but those who only critizise his gut don't see that the rest of his body was in a league of his own.

I call someone a hater when he says: "look Ronnie is not a good bb, he had the worst gut".

Those people don't see his achievements and don't see that there are bblers with a worse gut than him (Fux, Nasser). Nevertheless. Ronnie had years where he had a bad gut, I never said sth different. But he could made up for this with his world class body IMO.

I didn't want to offend you, sorry!

I agree with sentiments expressed by leonidas in their entirety.

I don't want to repeat the blindingly obvious but bodybuilding is subjective, we each possess a different interpretation of what constitutes an aesthetic physique. If someone prefers the mass monsters irrespective of the presence of a gut or not then that is fine with me. I will respect their opinion even if I completely and utterly disagree with it.


Reisinger:

"His gut was apparant, yes, but those who only critizise his gut don't see that the rest of his body was in a league of his own.

I call someone a hater when he says: "look Ronnie is not a good bb, he had the worst gut".



The point from my perspective is that one must take a holistic approach rather than an atomistic one, i.e. one cannot divorce the gut from the physique as a whole. They are inseparable. In my opinion, any gut that protrudes past a chest is just an anathema. Yes, Fux may have had a gut worse than Ronnie but that is fairly peripheral as it doesn't remain something to either boast about or take comfort in that fact

Although I do think that Ronnie does push him fairly closely




Incidentally, by highlighting Ronnie, I am not doing so at the exclusion of Dorian, I feel the need to state this as others in this thread have reacted as though you are prejudiced against one or the other if you highlight one whilst concurrently failing to highlight the other

[leonidas300]

What are you doing here still?

I am here just to annoy the hell out of you. I wake up every morning and start concocting ways to agitate you. It gives my life meaning.

[leonidas300]

From Urban Dictionary

1. hating

When one puts down the success or fortune of others due to jealousy.

She is "hating" on me because I won the lottery and she didn't.

So explain to me how I am hating because I am in no way shape or form jealous of any of these people I criticize. Am I critical and opinionated, without a freakin doubt. Am I hating? Only to the playa haters who be hating on my intellectual skillz and mad prowers of observation.

[Vadim Beliaev]

I am here just to annoy the hell out of you. I wake up every morning and start concocting ways to agitate you. It gives my life meaning.

mission accomplished then

From Urban Dictionary

1. hating

When one puts down the success or fortune of others due to jealousy.

She is "hating" on me because I won the lottery and she didn't.

So explain to me how I am hating because I am in no way shape or form jealous of any of these people I criticize. Am I critical and opinionated, without a freakin doubt. Am I hating? Only to the playa haters who be hating on my intellectual skillz and mad prowers of observation.

this is actually the first time i see that jealousy is required in order to hate someone
I disagree

Besides, keeping in mind how much attention you devote to topics at hand, makes me wonder, maybe you are somewhat jealous?

[Reisinger850]

Reisinger:

"His gut was apparant, yes, but those who only critizise his gut don't see that the rest of his body was in a league of his own.

I call someone a hater when he says: "look Ronnie is not a good bb, he had the worst gut".



The point from my perspective is that one must take a holistic approach rather than an atomistic one, i.e. one cannot divorce the gut from the physique as a whole. They are inseparable. In my opinion, any gut that protrudes past a chest is just an anathema. Yes, Fux may have had a gut worse than Ronnie but that is fairly peripheral as it doesn't remain something to either boast about or take comfort in that fact

Although I do think that Ronnie does push him fairly closely

So since you have posted a pic from the 03 Mr.O with Ronnie's gut, does this mean Ronnie should not have won in your opinion in 2003?

I want to get this straight:

Because of his gut, he SHOULD NOT HAVE WON in 2003, although he was like without a doubt the winner and perhaps the winner with the biggest margin to second place ever?

You want the athletes to be marked down if they have a gut. Okay, but what should the judges have done regarding Ronnie?

You want sth to change because you critizise the gut thing and the judging... ------> Then I want you to name another winner in 2003 for example.


I wait.


Same can be asked the other poster who don't like the word hater in general.

[sikboy]

I agree with sentiments expressed by leonidas in their entirety.

I don't want to repeat the blindingly obvious but bodybuilding is subjective, we each possess a different interpretation of what constitutes an aesthetic physique. If someone prefers the mass monsters irrespective of the presence of a gut or not then that is fine with me. I will respect their opinion even if I completely and utterly disagree with it.


Reisinger:

"His gut was apparant, yes, but those who only critizise his gut don't see that the rest of his body was in a league of his own.

I call someone a hater when he says: "look Ronnie is not a good bb, he had the worst gut".



The point from my perspective is that one must take a holistic approach rather than an atomistic one, i.e. one cannot divorce the gut from the physique as a whole. They are inseparable. In my opinion, any gut that protrudes past a chest is just an anathema. Yes, Fux may have had a gut worse than Ronnie but that is fairly peripheral as it doesn't remain something to either boast about or take comfort in that fact

Although I do think that Ronnie does push him fairly closely




Incidentally, by highlighting Ronnie, I am not doing so at the exclusion of Dorian, I feel the need to state this as others in this thread have reacted as though you are prejudiced against one or the other if you highlight one whilst concurrently failing to highlight the other

I think Ronnie is the GOAT, but that gut is an abomination.

mission accomplished then



this is actually the first time i see that jealousy is required in order to hate someone
I disagree

Besides, keeping in mind how much attention you devote to topics at hand, makes me wonder, maybe you are somewhat jealous?

Very thin line between love and hate, someone may love another's physique, they may also hate themselves and the pro for not being able to attain a similar amount of muscularity, so some attack what they secretly admire, attempting to draw attention away from the fact that they admire the physique, even if they dont admire the whole physique, they may still admire parts of it, or the dedication it takes, if they themselves do not possess the dedication, they will think they are weak in comparison, so they try to bring down the achievements of another, very childish behavior, if i admire a physique i praise it and the accomplishments of the athlete and this makes me train even harder, to try to obtain a similar amount of muscularity, or just to become more muscular, haters only succeed in making one train harder, so we should thank them really.

Not saying anyone in particular is like this, but a lot of guys who hate on the pros may very well be like this.

[leonidas300]

Besides, keeping in mind how much attention you devote to topics at hand, makes me wonder, maybe you are somewhat jealous?

Yes, I would love to have an enormous protuding gut, I feel so embarrassed now.

[leonidas300]

I think Ronnie is the GOAT, but that gut is an abomination.


Very thin line between love and hate, someone may love another's physique, they may also hate themselves and the pro for not being able to attain a similar amount of muscularity, so some attack what they secretly admire, attempting to draw attention away from the fact that they admire the physique, even if they dont admire the whole physique, they may still admire parts of it, or the dedication it takes, if they themselves do not possess the dedication, they will think they are weak in comparison, so they try to bring down the achievements of another, very childish behavior, if i admire a physique i praise it and the accomplishments of the athlete and this makes me train even harder, to try to obtain a similar amount of muscularity, or just to become more muscular, haters only succeed in making one train harder, so we should thank them really.

Not saying anyone in particular is like this, but a lot of guys who hate on the pros may very well be like this.

That makes very little sense when people like myself openly acknowledge jealousy at the level of muscularity and aesthetics that people like Milos, Bob Paris, Lee Labrada, and Serge Nubret have obtained. I know I have nowhere near the ability or dedication to achieve a physique like that and I praise them for their hardwork and achieving what I consider a level of almost sublime perfection. Ronnie, Jay and the other mass monsters look just, well like monsters to me and they have nothing in terms of physique that I am envious of. To me the physique must be examined as a total package. I could care less how huge someone's arms, legs, backs, or other appendage is unless it is attached to a very aesthetic total package. I "hate" on pros that I find repulsive, I praise those I find pleasing. This all boils down to one's subjective opinion so there really isn't any point in trying to psychoanalyze this.

[Northman69]

So since you have posted a pic from the 03 Mr.O with Ronnie's gut, does this mean Ronnie should not have won in your opinion in 2003?

I want to get this straight:

Because of his gut, he SHOULD NOT HAVE WON in 2003, although he was like without a doubt the winner and perhaps the winner with the biggest margin to second place ever?

You want the athletes to be marked down if they have a gut. Okay, but what should the judges have done regarding Ronnie?

You want sth to change because you critizise the gut thing and the judging... ------> Then I want you to name another winner in 2003 for example.


I wait.


Same can be asked the other poster who don't like the word hater in general.

03 was his best year by far....still I honestly think GH and insulin are taking the bodybuilding out of bodybuilding.

More and more casual who don't even compete are using the stuff, just is dumb. Just brings more negativity to bodybuilding.

[sikboy]

That makes very little sense when people like myself openly acknowledge jealousy at the level of muscularity and aesthetics that people like Milos, Bob Paris, Lee Labrada, and Serge Nubret have obtained. I know I have nowhere near the ability or dedication to achieve a physique like that and I praise them for their hardwork and achieving what I consider a level of almost sublime perfection. Ronnie, Jay and the other mass monsters look just, well like monsters to me and they have nothing in terms of physique that I am envious of. To me the physique must be examined as a total package. I could care less how huge someone's arms, legs, backs, or other appendage is unless it is attached to a very aesthetic total package. I "hate" on pros that I find repulsive, I praise those I find pleasing. This all boils down to one's subjective opinion so there really isn't any point in trying to psychoanalyze this.

Did i ever say that i thought you were like this in any way? I was commenting on some ppl in the IFBB section but no one in specific.

It is one thing to prefer a certain physique over another, or dislike a physique for what ever reason, but it is something else to hate the pro for there accomplishments, and this is really the reason why so many ppl on the board attack the pro's, they use the guts as a starting point on which to base the majority of their attacks, i am not a fan of the guts either, i dont think many ppl are, but why should the bb be attacked because he has a gut? A fan of bb would just say, i dislike his physique because of his gut its hideous and not attack every aspect of him after this, some of which are admirable, such as the athletes dedication, success ext.

I wonder why you thought my post was directed towards you? It really wasn't bro, i wasn't trying to psychoanalyze anything, just a general observation on some ppl in this section and of course its mostly the trolls who attack the pros in this manner.

[leonidas300]

Did i ever say that i thought you were like this in any way? I was commenting on some ppl in the IFBB section but no one in specific.

It is one thing to prefer a certain physique over another, or dislike a physique for what ever reason, but it is something else to hate the pro for there accomplishments, and this is really the reason why so many ppl on the board attack the pro's, they use the guts as a starting point on which to base the majority of their attacks, i am not a fan of the guts either, i dont think many ppl are, but why should the bb be attacked because he has a gut? A fan of bb would just say, i dislike his physique because of his gut its hideous and not attack every aspect of him after this, some of which are admirable, such as the athletes dedication, success ext.

I wonder why you thought my post was directed towards you? It really wasn't bro, i wasn't trying to psychoanalyze anything, just a general observation on some ppl in this section and of course its mostly the trolls who attack the pros in this manner.

Overall it seems that we are in agreement then. I admire every single professionals dedication, work ethic, and honestly their single mindedness in their pursuit of their goals even when they are walking guinea pigs. Lord knows I would never experiment on my body the way they do, but I respect their decision to do so. Sometimes the experiment turns out some monstrosities

[sikboy]

Overall it seems that we are in agreement then. I admire every single professionals dedication, work ethic, and honestly their single mindedness in their pursuit of their goals even when they are walking guinea pigs. Lord knows I would never experiment on my body the way they do, but I respect their decision to do so. Sometimes the experiment turns out some monstrosities

You see what we have to bear in mind also is when new drugs hit the scene the athletes do not know the full effects of the drug and will only know through personal use and even then they wont have the full picture until some in depth studies are completed with the drugs in question, the bb are guinea pigs yes they are also pioneers and are pushing the boundary's on human muscular potential, when newer drugs become available they will be no doubt be able to create the perfect physique, huge thick muscles/strength, incredible vascularity and conditioning and a tight waist, they have a lot of the tools, but not all the knowledge on how to best use them, though some are figuring out the best ways to use them now, it just takes time, to see how they have effected athletes of old such as Dorian, Ronnie, Nasser, Fux ect, you can bet those guys IGF-1 use was incredibly high as was their food consumption during this time, as apposed to say Dex.

Many bb may have thought that IGF-1 was a new kind of steroid to be abused and get great gains from, with steroids the more you take, the bigger you get, with IGF-1 the more you take, the more you grow things you dont want to grow, i have taken large doses of gear and i can say i didnt get many side effects, i would never take large doses of LR3 for extended periods, this compound with steroids is incredibly potent, even in small doses and IMO commands more respect than steroids alone.

[Darren in Gym]

Great insight man!!

[captainhorseboy]

i think the thing that bothers me most is the idea that people are trading off one part for the gains in others

like yeah, you get size everywhere else, but a gut comes with it

and i think many would agree that they prefer a competitor grow those parts in a less dramatic fashion without sacrificing the waist

[Duckenheimer]

[Darren in Gym]

I think, like sikboy said above, that these bodies are a results of the experimenting with differnet drugs (dosages and so forth), yeah there is going to be some mistakes, but i do think that honestly the Ifbb is finally taking a step in the right direction, with the likes of Dexter, Vic, Heath and Wolf taking out most of those top honours. And as for Cutler, while yes his waist is somewhat wide (not that bad come on!!) his gut is now firmly incheck. and as for Kai, i think that his phyisque (growing gut) will be less and less rewarded and officals and judges try to move away from the physiques that have dominated bodybuilding for over 15 years

[sikboy]

i think the thing that bothers me most is the idea that people are trading off one part for the gains in others

like yeah, you get size everywhere else, but a gut comes with it

and i think many would agree that they prefer a competitor grow those parts in a less dramatic fashion without sacrificing the waist

The gut can be avoided so easily, LR3 is an incredibly potent compound that promotes hypertrophy and muscle mitosis, is a great neuro preserver and even promotes neurogenisis, not many drugs can do anything close to what it can, it should be used by competitive bb's especially, in conjunction with other compounds of course.

LR3 is way ahead of the field when it comes to what it does and on so many levels.

[Darren in Gym]

The gut can be avoided so easily, LR3 is an incredibly potent compound that promotes hypertrophy and muscle mitosis, is a great neuro preserver and even promotes neurogenisis, not many drugs can do anything close to what it can, it should be used by competitive bb's especially, in conjunction with other compounds of course.

LR3 is way ahead of the field when it comes to what it does and on so many levels.

so is LR3 the cause of the "Gut" or is it the answer to it?

[sikboy]

so is LR3 the cause of the "Gut" or is it the answer to it?

I have explained all this in my other posts, it is a contributory factor, but an adaptive compound such as LR3 can only cause adaption if there is first a stress, or stressors induced within that biological system.

[Baby_Jesus]

in before many repost's

[leonidas300]

[sikboy]

Strong burnout over the years^^^^^

[leonidas300]

mission accomplished then

While I do enjoy messing with you, I have immense respect for the physique that you have developed. Just to demonstrate my lack of "hating" I will openly admit that your physique is much better than my own and I would be thrilled to death to have a physique like you have (except your height I love being 6'3" jk ) I would actually prefer to have a physique like yours rather than Ronnie's or Jay's. I honestly mean that, to me your look is much more preferable than those guys. I have immense respect for people that are able to build up incredibly muscular physiques, but for me at least, after a certain point it just turns freakish and revolting. That is all.

[Zeneth]

Oh man....horrendous...

[Samantha905]

disgusting to look at.


wheres Kovac's right nipple gone lol?

[Blitz-Test]

Bodybuilding has changed a great deal over the years. The pre-steroid era, the 'Glory Days' of the 70s, and when it morphed into the bulky look with Dorian Yates, who I suppose started that trend in a way.

It has gone to another level with Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler. The champions from the other eras dislike the 'oversized' look of the recent Mr Olympia champions, and every time that I have interviewed one of them, it has come up. Lee Haney, Frank Zane and Robby Robinson all were consistent with that, and a 'blown out stomach' was specifically mentioned.

Personally, I would rather see a more symmetrical look, especially on the person who takes the Sandow. The judges have changed as much as the contenders, so I suppose that we will have to wait for the next 'wave' to find out what is next.

Pre steroids is not the 70s it was more like the 20s lol

[Darren in Gym]

I have explained all this in my other posts, it is a contributory factor, but an adaptive compound such as LR3 can only cause adaption if there is first a stress, or stressors induced within that biological system.

ok so its the potential cause, gotta