Cooking proteins out of food

[hockeyjunkie]

It may have been discussed here before...I've searched and can't find any threads answering in details...so I'll just ask a fresh question:

Can you cook the protein out of foods such as steak, chicken and eggs?

[miss_carrie]

It may have been discussed here before...I've searched and can't find any threads answering in details...so I'll just ask a fresh question:

Can you cook the protein out of foods such as steak, chicken and eggs?

hmm...i doubt it. i know you can cook whey protein (i.e. in a protein bar recipe) so i doubt it is possible to "cook" the macros out of a food

[emunah]

no.

[hockeyjunkie]

hmm...i doubt it. i know you can cook whey protein (i.e. in a protein bar recipe) so i doubt it is possible to "cook" the macros out of a food

OK then, just a couple of thoughts:

Heat changes the molecular structure of compounds, and protein is a compound made up of amino acids (peptides, etc).
Excessive heat or over cooking foods won't "break down" protein? Not necessarily cook it out of the food, but break it down...

For example: Med Rare steak vs. Well Done-why do a lot of the articles I read say to eat your meats rare/med rare?

Why, back in the day, did the likes of Arnold and the other old timers eat their eggs raw? Not cooking them?
Granted today's bodybuilders cook them as they now have protein supplements, but pre supplements, eggs were eaten raw.

I've also heard it said that over cooking veggies, cooks the vitamins out of them. Raw veggies are best. So can you cook the v's out of veggies? And if so, why can't you cook the protein out of meat and eggs?

[terracotta]

Veggies - you lose the water soluble vitamins to the water and you kill the enzymes

Meats - you kill the enzymes.. in rare/med. rare steak, you have more enzymes, and can digest more of the protein - that is, the bioavailability of protein from rare/med. rare steak and from milk is higher than from well done meats. The protein content does not change based on the cooking. You can also taking digestive enzymes with your food - eg. Udo's digestive enzyme blend.

Now, your body can digest a certain amount of protein on its own without the food enzymes, but with a large protein meal, you are better off taking enzymes with the meal.

[hockeyjunkie]

Veggies - you lose the water soluble vitamins to the water and you kill the enzymes

Meats - you kill the enzymes.. in rare/med. rare steak, you have more enzymes, and can digest more of the protein - that is, the bioavailability of protein from rare/med. rare steak and from milk is higher than from well done meats. The protein content does not change based on the cooking. You can also taking digestive enzymes with your food - eg. Udo's digestive enzyme blend.

Now, your body can digest a certain amount of protein on its own without the food enzymes, but with a large protein meal, you are better off taking enzymes with the meal.

Thank you for the clarification! I certainly wasn't debating the fact, I just wanted the "urban legend" put to rest in my own mind...THANKS!

BUT...taking what you just said into consideration, the more you cook your meat, the less "usualbe", "available" or "digestable" the proteins become (unless you supplement with enzymes)?

I like my steaks med rare, but I cook the crud out of my egg whites as I really can't stand wet eggs. I wanted to be sure I wasn't being counterproductive in over cooking my eggs.
I guess it's kinda like buying a protein supplement that advertises 55 GRAMS OF PROTEIN PER SERVING, when really all your body can "use" or "digest" is 25-30. Right?

[emunah]

your body can use more than 30 grams. that's another myth

[terracotta]

bioavailability is a percentage.. there is no meal protein limit.

[PopeGregorius]

It may have been discussed here before...I've searched and can't find any threads answering in details...so I'll just ask a fresh question:

Can you cook the protein out of foods such as steak, chicken and eggs?

What you are really asking is 'Can you cook the nitrogen out of foods'. Then answer is no.

Carbs & fats contain carbon/oxygen/hydrogen. Protein is carbon/oxygen/hydrogen/nitrogen. They only way you can build protein (eg muscle) is by eating protein.
---
If you want a digestive enzyime eat fresh pinapple, kiwi or papaya.

[bootybabe]

No you can't cook protien out of food.

[hockeyjunkie]

your body can use more than 30 grams. that's another myth

Just curious...do you have any links that support the theory that this IS a myth?

I've searched and searched (prior to posting this thread) but have yet to find substancial evidence that your body actually USES/PROCESSES more than 35-35 grams per sitting/serving.

Thanks in advance

[terracotta]

She doesn't need links, it is just a misunderstanding of what happens.

When you eat protein, your body breaks it into amino acids. Those amino acids stay in your body for ~12 hours. At ANY GIVEN TIME your body can use only a certain amount of them, but the rest are still there.

[hockeyjunkie]

She doesn't need links, it is just a misunderstanding of what happens.

When you eat protein, your body breaks it into amino acids. Those amino acids stay in your body for ~12 hours. At ANY GIVEN TIME your body can use only a certain amount of them, but the rest are still there.

I wasn't suggesting she "NEEDED" links to prove it nor was I stating I "needed" them to believe it.

I just want to read about it. It helps me retain the info if I read articles or studies on it as opposed to simply being told what I have read and understood all along is a myth.

I'm a "why" person...I'm a "give me specifics" person. I wasn't debating the fact she is or isn't wrong. Apparently I was and I just wanted more info on it.

Thanks for the info you did provide...but if anyone has any links out there where I can read more about it, please provide them.

Thanks in advance!

[emunah]

Why not find an article that actually says you can only use 30 grams?

That myth was started by supplement studies. There has never been a study actually showing that.

[hockeyjunkie]

Why not find an article that actually says you can only use 30 grams?

That myth was started by supplement studies. There has never been a study actually showing that.

I'm at work now...but once I get home I can provide those articles.
I have been sent several links as well as handed paper copies from trainers at my gym that state you can only utilize 20-30 grams per sitting.

I have those articles, I don't need them...I'm looking for links to read more about your statements.

Again, not arguing that you are incorrect or that I my belief in the myth is correct, I asked a simple favor...can anyone provide me with some pleasurable reading material. I can search it myself, but sometimes other folks have come across interesting reads that might be worth referring.

That's all...a nice conversation, a legitimate question, a simply request and I get spanked. Sorry I wasted your time with this thread.

[emunah]

Not meaning to 'spank you'. Its just that there are many bb myths out there and even when trainers give you info, it usually isn't actual research, rather what other people tend to say.

What do you mean by 'use by the body'. You mean protein synthesis?

There was one study that I think was based on all this. There was some study by Rennie and Wolf looking at protein synthesis and intake and based on some abstractions decided that 40 grams was the max per DAY, which later got confused. But it was an infusion study of aas, and I would hardly think that is extendable to actual protein intake. From the conclusions:



"Our results have some relevance to the question of the requirement of the human body for protein. They suggest that quite modest increases in amino acid supply, within the diurnal concentration range, result in substantial changes in the rates of synthesis, and thus probably the deposition of protein in muscle. Together with our previous results showing that stimulation of MPS is time limited (Bohé et al. 2001), it appears that only modest amounts of dietary amino acids would be needed to achieve maximal stimulation of the muscle anabolic processes (i.e. for adults of average weight, 55-75 kg 0.260 mg kg-1 h-1 2 h, or of the order of 30-40 g of protein). This is probably somewhat lower than the current FAO/WHO/UNU recommendation of 0.8 g kg-1 day-1 and much lower than that of 1.2 g kg -1day-1 proposed by some workers for the elderly (Campbell et al. 2001). The current results could have important implications for deciding upon protein requirements in circumstances in which the availability of protein is limited."

They aren't saying 30-40 grams at a time. They are saying 30-40 grams total. Per day. Which is in the range for the RDA but I find it unlikely to extrapolate to lifters/athletes.

Part of the issue also comes down to 3 vs 6 meals. In reality, it doesn't matter. A larger meal consisting of a larger amount of protein just takes longer to digest. The issue as I see it is that the digestion of protein in humans is fairly slow. A large meal of a solid protein may still be releasing amino acids into the bloodstream at the 5-8 hour mark. It's hard for me to see how the assertino that you MUST eat protein every 3 hours or you will fall into the pit of catabolism can possibly hold true. Basically, larger meals release the nutrients into the system over a much longer time frame than smaller meals. I have trouble seeing how 3 meals of 80 grams of protein is going to be massively different than 6 of 40 grams of protein. It is not as if eating 80 grams of protein in a meal means that 80 grams of protein all hit your bloodstream all at once. You'd expect a spike of nutrients, at which point this would feedback on gastric emptying and keep the rest of the meal in the gut, followed by a more steady release.

Something to think about... the official number tends to change depending on the supplement company with the number magically becoming whatever their protein produce happens to contain. When Met-RX protein products contained 30 grams of protein, 30 was the magic number; when they raised it to about 40, 40 become the magic number. Hmmm.....

Another thought: it would make zero sense in an evolutionary standpoint.
My point about our ancestors is that we are though to have evolved on anywhere from 2.5-3.5 g/kg of protein. Do you think we made sure to only eat a handful of protein at once? Right, we evolved as creatures of opportunity, when a big kill was made, people gorged. The reason our ancestors were more muscular and leaner than us was activity.

[TurbulentFluid]

What you are really asking is 'Can you cook the nitrogen out of foods'. Then answer is no.

Carbs & fats contain carbon/oxygen/hydrogen. Protein is carbon/oxygen/hydrogen/nitrogen. They only way you can build protein (eg muscle) is by eating protein.
---
If you want a digestive enzyime eat fresh pinapple, kiwi or papaya.

Erm, so basically, by your theory, if i eat a lot of artificial fertilizers which contain nitrogen, seasoned with some pencil carbon or diamonds and breathing in a lot of air which contains hydrogen and oxygen, I'm all set for some protein, lolol? Sadly, no...

Just kidding... No, you can't cook protein out of foods. Aminoacids are extreemly complex acids (by far more complex than "carbon/oxygen/hydrogen/nitrogen", although that's all they consist of - but the structure is so very complex, it's heat resistant. Proteins coagulate due to heat, but that doesn't affect their nutritive value. A good example of coagulating protein is eggs: when you put egg-white onto a heated pan, it turns white and dense - coagulates.
Vitamins, by contrast, are much simpler chemical structures which dissolve due to heat.

How does heat "ruin" a chemical structure? Easy - or not so easy. Atoms inside a chemical structure are bond by certain forces (I lack vocabulary to name them). When heated, atoms start vibrating because heat gives them energy. They constantly vibrate, but now they start vibrating more and more, and eventually break out of the structure and zoom away - home free, or creating other chemical structures. However, if caught in a more complex chemical structure, such as an amino-acid, the atom can't break all the links and zoom away, but with all the mess happening, the structure changes and the protein coagulates.

[ladym]

Check out this link on denaturing of proteins.

[hockeyjunkie]

emunah, TurbulentFluid and Ladym...THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

This is EXACTLY what I was looking for!