I've generally always included bent-over barbell rows in my routine, but I've gotten away from them recently. Heavy squatting and heavy deadlifts and heavy BOR all on separate days just wasn't allowing my lower back enough recovering time.
So these days I seem to be rotating seated close grip cable rows (my favorite), the Hammer Strength plate loaded iso row machine, and wide grip T-Bar rows (which are only slightly kinder to my lower back than bb rows).
Someone seems to have absconded with the wide "D-Grip" bar at our gym or I'd do wide grip seated cable rows too.
I don't like doing wide grip rows with an angled lat bar. In fact I hate it.
So what's everyone else doing?
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Thread: Let's talk about ROWS
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02-01-2012, 03:52 PM #1
Let's talk about ROWS
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02-01-2012, 04:08 PM #2
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02-01-2012, 04:10 PM #3
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02-01-2012, 04:15 PM #4
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02-01-2012, 04:21 PM #5
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02-01-2012, 04:23 PM #6
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02-01-2012, 04:36 PM #7
by Charles Poliquin
Very often in seminars or internships I get the following question asked in one form or the other:
I have not seen you mention barbells rows in your workouts. Agreed, most people do not perform them correctly, but what are your reasons to ignore this great exercise? Could you provide a quick primer to barbell rows just in case I get bored by chin-ups?
The reason that I don’t mention barbell rows is simply that I don’t believe they are a great upper back exercise, even when performed correctly. Why? Because there is is too much neural drive expended in firing the muscles involved in maintaining the postural aspect of the exercise. There is a great neuromuscular demand on firing the erector spinae, glutes and hamstrings at the same time- so much that the level of recruitment finally left over for the lats is too minimal to be worth it.
I would rather stick to variations of one arm dumbbell rows. To develop optimal structural balance, I strongly believe that for every set of chin-up done, one should a set of dumbbell rows (for both arms, of course). One arm dumbbell rows allow for even distribution of the load on both upper extremities, and great range of motion (particularly for the scapulae retractors). I can hear the functionalist cult already on their soap box: “What about function? This is a primary movement”. My answer to that is: if you already did a good job in the loading parameters for the squat and deadlift exercises, why overtrain the posterior chain?
Clearly I post upper two citations for discussion. I don't know are they right.
and
Let's have a look at the rows fist. If you compare it to a dumbbell row you will notice that they have more than one contact point. A normal dumbbell row uses the entire upper body as a contact point for support, the 1-arm dumbbell row stabilizes the body using the leg on the same side and the knee and hand on the other side of the active portion. Multiple contact points are important as they divide the stress over a larger plane and not just a small area like the lumbal vertebrae. Now in a bent-over barbell row we stand bent-over with the upper body as a lever hinging on those very vertebrae, while the other end of the lever is carrying an inhuman amount of weightLast edited by bbsitum; 02-01-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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02-01-2012, 04:40 PM #8
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On bent over 1 arm dumbbell rows,
I don't know if I never gave em a fair shot or I have been doing them wrong.
but to me they never felt like they did sh!t for me.
I can go heavy or light, focus on strict form or just throw em up and nothing.
I haven't done them in a long time (kind of gave up on them)
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02-01-2012, 04:51 PM #9
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I like bent over barbell rows way better than one arm DB (although DB rows both arms simultaneously is great). There's something about squeezing/pinching my shoulder blades together that seems to hit the deep upper back muscles much better that I don't feel with one arm DB rows. Doing it with DBs both arms at a time makes the shoulder blade pinch even more intense, although less weight can be used. The Yates style more upright style feels better on my back as long as I keep the bar very close to my body. My gym has this bar http://www.t-gripbarbell.com/index.htm which I like better than the overhand, underhand or the close parallel grip
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02-01-2012, 05:02 PM #10
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BOR are a probably one of my favorite. I like adding in drop sets with them as well once in a while. I usually will load on the appropriate # of 25s and strip em from there until I get to 95lbs. I usually do this on the last set because it fries me. Yates speaks highly of rows being a key to developing a solid back. Can't argue with teh back he produced
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02-01-2012, 05:19 PM #11
Rarely do I see people doing them correctly. They either go too heavy and heave-ho, or their form is just really odd.
When I do mine, I make sure my back stays square to the floor, and I let my arm go about 90% of the way down, and when I bring it back up, make sure my back doesn't move, otherwise, I know I am starting to throw the weight. When I pull the weight up, I make sure my elbow completely breaks the plane of my back.
Its very difficult to explain to someone in writing. Its one of those things where you almost need to assess the form i person. From years of an old muscle strain acting up every now and then, I manage to keep a pretty consistent imbalance if I am not careful. 1 armed DB rows have a pretty big impact on regaining that balance, that I try and rotate them in and out every 12 weeks.One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
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02-01-2012, 05:23 PM #12
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02-01-2012, 05:51 PM #13
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02-01-2012, 06:09 PM #14
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02-01-2012, 06:13 PM #15
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I do..
Pull ups
Bent over BB rows
One arm DB rows
Med grip Pull downs
Bent over BB rows do tax my back some, I can see taking them out of the equation espec when your back gets to the point its strong and you have to use alot of weight to make them worthwhile but for now I am sticking to them.Keep it simple
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02-01-2012, 07:06 PM #16
Barbell rows, followed by reverse-grip pulldowns (close-grip).
Chins/pull-ups on alternate day.
Never liked db rows and especially hate the t-bar machine as the pad pushes against my chest. I like to recruit the stabilizers, I feel this is much more challenging and beneficial.
I also do deads at least once per week but consider them more of a 70% lower body, 30% back and upper body exercise. YMMV.Last edited by Ed_Hitchens; 02-01-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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02-01-2012, 07:10 PM #17
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02-01-2012, 07:16 PM #18
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02-01-2012, 07:22 PM #19
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Love me some rows! My fave is sorta like a pendlay row except I feel stretching all the way out without touching the floor is best for me. Seems to work the lats better by keeping tension on the muscle.
Someone stated they dont go all the way down on db rows. I personaly think the full range of motion and stretch at the bottom is key to fully developing the lats.Journal
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141126481
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02-01-2012, 07:25 PM #20
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02-01-2012, 07:33 PM #21
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02-01-2012, 07:34 PM #22
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I'd like to tell you that I'm doing it now (IOW, can't atm, but working on it ), but this is how was doing it and found that it worked well:
The key (for me...and some other respected members here) was to change from conventional deads and substitute rack deads/rack pulls on Back Day. It takes the majority of the lift off of your legs that have been recently working (depending on the starting point of the pull) and won't put you in danger of an injury that could result due to fatigue, depth, the "floor break point pull", etc., but will allow you to work on your back in great ways by doing this exercise. It also will give your legs a break! (especially hams)
I've always found that while trying to work on one particular muscle group, I had to chill a good bit... and let other compounds take a back seat, of sorts, to allow any improvement to occur. I know that backing off of "full" deads is probably blaspheme , but you need to decide on what changes (and why) you might need to make to move forward in your progress. I also tried to re-focus such shifts with each new 8-12wk program I would embark on. Hell, I even came to rotate the emphasis on a particular exercise on a weekly basis. Basically, beside what I said to start with here, periodization is everyone's friend in almost any case.
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02-01-2012, 08:32 PM #23
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02-01-2012, 08:37 PM #24
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02-01-2012, 08:42 PM #25
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02-01-2012, 10:55 PM #26
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02-01-2012, 11:19 PM #27
do you do your deadlifts on back day? If you do... you can do them at the end of your workout and get your rows in first. Of course your deadlift would be much weaker at that point too.
if you need to do deads at the beginning.. I use to alternate deads or bbell rows every other week. I also love dumbell rows bent over without a bench. opposite arm sits on same side thigh."The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge, but Fools Despise Wisdom and Discipline." Proverbs 1:7
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02-01-2012, 11:20 PM #28
BB rows are a staple for me ... and have done more for my back then just about anything else.
Every couple of weeks I'll also do high rep DB rows (high rep because most gyms suck when it comes to having heavy DBs). And every now and then, I'll do seated cable rows.It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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02-01-2012, 11:26 PM #29
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02-01-2012, 11:34 PM #30
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