how long should you wait...

[eupharies]

Carbs create an insulin spike so if you eat fats with them they will be storedm but when is it safe to eat fats again after eating a meal of carbs?

[rhizome]

Carbs create an insulin spike so if you eat fats with them they will be storedm but when is it safe to eat fats again after eating a meal of carbs?

All false.

[stathis723]

All false.

xx2

[eupharies]

well high gi carbs hten

[rhizome]

well high gi carbs hten

Still false. Not the way things work brah.

[eupharies]

Ok, if you eat to many carbs in one sitting, then the carbs not used would be stored as fat. Thats why its better to eat carbs with protein as protein is harder to digest therefore will speed up your metabolism, using more of the carbs...

[stathis723]

Carbs create an insulin spike so if you eat fats with them they will be storedm but when is it safe to eat fats again after eating a meal of carbs?

you can combine carbs and fats, Fats dont make you fat, carbs dont make you fat, Calories in Vs calories Out discontrol make you fat..

Ok, if you eat to many carbs in one sitting, then the carbs not used would be stored as fat. Thats why its better to eat carbs with protein as protein is harder to digest therefore will speed up your metabolism, using more of the carbs...

Omaigad!

[eupharies]

Got that off a website....
Well if you eat highGI carbs, you will have an insulin spike, and if you have eaten any fats with it, then they will be stored...

[turtle_soup]

Ok, if you eat to many carbs in one sitting, then the carbs not used would be stored as fat. Thats why its better to eat carbs with protein as protein is harder to digest therefore will speed up your metabolism, using more of the carbs...

WTF????

Where in the world did you get your information?

#1... carbs don't make you fat
#2.... your metabolism does not speed up because of protein
#3.... basic nutrition 101


I'm not an expert.... so anyone correct me if im wrong.
Carbs... High sugar carbs such as - a donut are consumed by your body within MINUTES.... as in - a 300 caolorie donut is consued (throughout the digestion process which beings in your mouth) in minutes... a good carb such as a carrot is consumed over the course of 30 minutes or soo... ummm.. Something like a donut the carbs are consumed at 30 caloris a minute - don't know the exact science...

So.... limit your BAD carbs - and enjoy your GOOD Carbs.... bad carbs= hiking in the mountains all day (granola bars)... good carbs = a pre-work snack (an apple or banana)

PROTEIN is consumed MUCH slower... don't know the exact science or numbers...


Calories in vs calories out for basic weight loss!

[eupharies]

ok and because the High GI carb calories are consumked within minutes, then it will be stored because you dont need that many cals within a few minutes (bad chose of wording) but you can prob see what i mean.

[stathis723]

Got that off a website....
Well if you eat highGI carbs, you will have an insulin spike, and if you have eaten any fats with it, then they will be stored...

that website fail, use the search botton in this forums, not that every1 here is an expert but u can find some good info about nutrition

[rhizome]

ok and because the High GI carb calories are consumked within minutes, then it will be stored because you dont need that many cals within a few minutes (bad chose of wording) but you can prob see what i mean.

no, no, no.

[stathis723]

no, no, no.

i cant believe that guy honestly , hes playing with our nerves?

[turtle_soup]

ok and because the High GI carb calories are consumked within minutes, then it will be stored because you dont need that many cals within a few minutes (bad chose of wording) but you can prob see what i mean.

It won't be stored as fat... Your food doesn't go from calories to fat immediately.

use me as an example:
My BMR is around 1600ish calories per day. If I eat 2000 calories of carbs, proteins and fats with NO excercise my body would store 400 calories as fat.
(basic basic concept here and I know there is a lot more science involved)

I use a basic rule of thumb = Carbs equates to energy.. the more carbs, the more energy I need to expend..
Right now I'm trying to lean out more so my diet consists of "carbs only for energy purposes - as in a cup of oatmeal as a morning snack... lean meats and veggies the rest of the day'

Like another poste said - do a search on this site... there is TONS of great information from people - but keep in mind every body reacts differently...

[turtle_soup]

i cant believe that guy honestly , hes playing with our nerves?

But whats so sad... is people read crap and think its true... they read some off the wall site or some stupid arse article in a mag and think... wow...

Seriously... i've seen way to many people who have NO clue about it go this route - and all that happens is they sabotage themselves and give up.

[rhizome]

i cant believe that guy honestly , hes playing with our nerves?

Ya know. Some people just have lost touch with reality since they've had so much nonsense drilled into their skulls that they cannot let go of the blatant misinformation no matter what.

[eupharies]

Thats why im asking on here i think i will go with less carbs in my diet, ive been told to do a recomp, so lose fat + gain muscle at the same time, by training days eating over maintenance and off days eating slightly under.

[bbjeff86]

To answer the poster you would wait until your next meal to consume your fats, i.e. a protein/fat meal. wait atleast 2 hours.

As for everyone saying this is false... a couple of things. #1 there hasn't been enough research to prove it false or true. #2 theoretically it is sound reasoning based on physiological principals. #3 a calorie is not a calorie, that is the dumbest thing to believe and uses no common sense or reasoning. #4 Dante Trudel's writing steered me toward the seperation of carbs and fats, and he has been incredibaly inovative and succesfull and getting bodybuilders huge and ripped, so it's not complete bull****.

[eupharies]

ok , i think people here think im not looking in to this, jsut the more you look in to it the mroe confusing it gets you know!
Especially with this insulin spike stuff etc, I mean i know i should eat carbs at breakfast, Low GI before workout, and then after workout i just have dextrose in my shake.
I just wonder how many carbs is to much per meal....

[rhizome]

so it's complete bull****.

fixed, bro.

[hooked4life]

you can cut with donuts. this thread is absurd.

[imccarthy]

To answer the poster you would wait until your next meal to consume your fats, i.e. a protein/fat meal. wait atleast 2 hours.

As for everyone saying this is false... a couple of things. #1 there hasn't been enough research to prove it false or true. #2 theoretically it is sound reasoning based on physiological principals. #3 a calorie is not a calorie, that is the dumbest thing to believe and uses no common sense or reasoning. #4 Dante Trudel's writing steered me toward the seperation of carbs and fats, and he has been incredibaly inovative and succesfull and getting bodybuilders huge and ripped, so it's not complete bull****.

#5 You really don't understand what you are talking about.

Here's what Alan Aragon, Layne Norton, Will Brink, and Jamie Hale have to say about this:

J Beaty: What are your thoughts on the reemergence of the macronutrient food combining theory where carbs shouldn't be mixed with protein/fat meals and fat shouldn't be mixed with protein/carb meals?

L Norton: This is a rather simplistic way of looking at nutrition and focuses mainly on insulin rather than looking at the whole picture. While it probably isn't a good idea to have a really high carb meal with a really high fat meal, there's nothing wrong with having moderate amounts of both.

W Brink: like many theories, it comes around every few years or decades and gets people all worked up over their food. Problem is, it's no more true today then it was when the book Fit for Life by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond came out. The theory had no scientific support then and it has none now. Humans have been combining fats, carbs, and proteins quite successfully for eons and as omnivores, are perfectly capable of digesting mixed meals.

J Hale: You are probably referring to the theory that assumes insulin and blood levels of fat should never be raised at the same time. This theory assumes that insulin is the key contributor to obesity. There are a few things wrong with this line of thought. One of the key problems is not recognizing something called Acylation Stimulating Protein. Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is a hormone produced by adipocytes and is of importance for the storage of energy as fat. The consumption of dietary fat alone can increase fat storage. Dietary fat affects fat cell metabolism with NO INCREASE in insulin. Some studies have indicated dietary fat loading found a decrease in HSL (hormone sensitive lipase) and an activation of fat storage despite no increase in insulin. The key reason was activation of acylation stimulating protein (ASP) which is activated by the presence of chylomicrons (basically packaged triglycerides that are found in the bloodstream after the meal). ASP increases glucose uptake into the fat cell, increases insulin release from the pancreas and has been described as 'the most potent stimulator of triglyceride storage' in the fat cells by numerous scientists. Another problem with this line of thought is some proteins causes substantial elevations in insulin. Minimal levels of insulin affect fat cell metabolism. Basal levels can decrease lipolysis by 50%. Another consideration is most bbers are eating every 2-3 hrs so nutrients are still absorbing from previous meals; therefore previous meals interact with the blood levels of nutrients of the present meal.

A study conducted by Golay and colleagues compared a diet with equal macronutrient content and substrate percentages; that differed only in how the substrates were consumed (mixed diet vs. food combining). The results were no difference in weight loss. Here are the exact results reported by the researchers. ?Results: There was no significant difference in the amount of weight loss in response to dissociated (6.2 +/- 0.6 kg) or balanced (7.5 +/- 0.4 kg) diets. Furthermore, significant decreases in total body fat and waist-to-hip circumference ratio were seen in both groups, and the magnitude of the changes did not vary as a function of the diet composition. Fasting plasma glucose, insulin, total cholesterol and triacylglycerol concentrations decreased significantly and similarly in patients receiving both diets. Both systolic and diastolic blood pressure values decreased significantly in patients eating balanced diets. The results of this study show that both diets achieved similar weight loss. Total fat weight loss was higher in balanced diets, although differences did not reach statistical significance. Total lean body mass was identically spared in both groups. CONCLUSION: In summary at identical energy intake and similar substrate composition, the dissociated (or 'food combining') diet did not bring any additional loss in weight and body fat?. Actually looks like a slight increase in fat loss with mixed diet (balanced diet). We have tons of anecdotal evidence that denies the need for food combining. We have evolved on a mixed diet. With all of that said food combining may be beneficial regarding calorie control. Once you eliminate an entire macronutrient from a meal this can go a long way in decreasing total caloric intake. If this is what you need to do to control energy intake feel free to do so.

A Aragon: I think that the ?P+C & P+F = okay but avoid C+F? principle is idiotic when applied across the board without any contingencies or attention to individual situations. For example, if someone is low-carbing for whatever reason you choose (pathological carbophobia included), they might be done with their carb intake by early afternoon, and their meal construction for the rest of the day is gonna be primarily P+F by sheer default. In the latter scenario, I can see the principle being legit. However, when issued blanketly, it?s usually based upon the wacky idea that you don?t want fat floating around systemically when your insulin levels are high, because this will magically shift your net adipose balance in the positive. That?s false for a number of reasons. First of all, the insulin response generated by CHO + fat generally depends upon the degree of the fat?s saturation. Unsaturated fats tend to either lower insulin response of the coingested carbs, or not affect insulin response at all. Coingested sat fat, on the other hand, tends to raise insulin response, and can do so in a synergistic fashion. But then the question becomes, so what? Others have mentioned the more direct role ASP has in TG synthesis, and indeed, insulin is more of a multi-tasking anabolic/anticatabolic agent in comparison to ASP, which seems to exist solely to pump up the adipocytes. And of course the kicker is that ASP can do its TG-synthesizing magic in the sheer absence of insulin.

And then there?s energy balance? In a negative energy balance, insulinogenesis is wonderful thing, as long as the training stimulus & nutrition is there to work in concert with it to preserve LBM. In the condition of a positive energy balance, trainees in general are gonna have a lot more carbs to throw around, so this makes the whole separation thing even more dicey. Which meals should be carb-free or fat-free in order to pull of this magic separation tactic, and why? The logical answers to this question simply don?t exist. If you were to actually adhere to the mechanics of separation, you?d actually be hard-pressed to maintain a stable insulin profile ? which is ironic, since the control of insulin is what ?separatists? are aiming for. Regardless of all the previous points, the fundamental shortsight is that digestion/absorption of meals overlap each other when meal frequency is as high as it should be. Therefore, attempting strict separation of the macros = kidding yourself. Not to mention, most foods in nature are a combo of all the macros to begin with.

These guys are the best of the best... and all four say the whole theory is bunk. Get over it.

[eupharies]

Rhiz... youve got loads of rep, yet havent answered anything ive asked...

[imccarthy]

fixed, bro.

you can cut with donuts. this thread is absurd.

Reps.

[imccarthy]

Rhiz... youve got loads of rep, yet havent answered anything ive asked...

The whole idea of separating fats and carbs is bull****. Period. Read the article above for clarification.

[eupharies]

L Norton: This is a rather simplistic way of looking at nutrition and focuses mainly on insulin rather than looking at the whole picture. While it probably isn't a good idea to have a really high carb meal with a really high fat meal, there's nothing wrong with having moderate amounts of both.

Not completely, like he said you should having a high carb + fat meal, isnt a good idea.

[rhizome]

Rhiz... youve got loads of rep, yet havent answered anything ive asked...

The only way to answer your questions would be with lies and would only serve to further perpetuate the misinformation.

You can read the long more complicated explaination above. Or you can just wipe your mind of your current notions.

[imccarthy]

The only way to answer your questions would be with lies and would only serve to further perpetuate the misinformation.

You can read the long more complicated explaination above. Or you can just wipe your mind of your current notions.

Quoted for truth. I'd rep you again if I could.

[eupharies]

im not after lies, just the truth slighlty simplified lol

[bbjeff86]

That is fine and dandy that is those individuals views. And while there have been no study's to prove the need to seperate, there have also been no studies that prove that combining is best. It's funny, because most of those quates say that it is a bad idea to combine in massive quantities... basically admitting that you shouldn't mix them. But then they go on to say it's ok in moderation... well thats true and fine and dandy, but if you want to get huge and ripped, moderation is not an option, you have to consume ungodly amounts of food. I respect Layne Norton alot, and Will Brink, never heard of the others. But I would much more willingly trust people like Dante Trudel, and Dave Palumbo, who are warry of extra carbs, and mixing them. They both have created huge/ripped individuals, and are/were huge themselves. My google image search showed that no one you listed was excessively large. Probably because in order to keep bodyfat in check while combining those macros requires a lower calorie consumption.

I understand what you are saying that in moderation is fine, and that is mostly true for many people, however I believe and have seen that seperating them is a much more efficient way to ward off unwanted bodyfat.

I'm not sure were the blatant lack of respect comes from. Why not just engage in an intelectual debate?