Shoulder Press- front or back of head

[deRusett]

I have been watching many people do shoulder presses and have been wondering which is the propper way.

lower behind the head,
Lower infront of the head
does not matter


please elaborate as much as possible,

I would think hitting them from infront of the the head is better, but when I think about it I used to do them behind the head with an eazy curl bar, but infront with the smith machine, so I clearly don't know which to do.

[$AJ]

front; btn is unsafe unless you've develolped shoulder girdle flexibility

[GarethCheeseman]

When ever I've given behind the head a try it makes my shoulder blades hurt so I stick to in front of the head

[lonewolfshome]

I have been watching many people do shoulder presses and have been wondering which is the propper way.

lower behind the head,
Lower infront of the head
does not matter


please elaborate as much as possible,

I would think hitting them from infront of the the head is better, but when I think about it I used to do them behind the head with an eazy curl bar, but infront with the smith machine, so I clearly don't know which to do.

go to this site and have a readhttp://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/lat-pull-down.html...and heres a little more.........Lat Pull-downs Behind the Neck

by Marc David
An exercise to avoid

No story to go with this one, but think about it. Eventually you'll be doing some heavy weight. In a very unnatural position. That is a recipe for injury. It's much more natural and safe to do the same movement to the front. Either way your lats are getting worked. But behind the neck puts pressure on the shoulders which isn't the muscle group you are trying work.

This same philosophy goes for pull-ups. They should be done to the front as well. If you do pull-downs, try doing it to the front. Don't even think about behind the neck as they won't do any more for you except possibly give your an excuse not to do any more pull-downs.........................then go here and look for pulldowns and rc injury etc etc............http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e/shoulder.php

[aiwass]

In front of the head, for me. A bonus is that if you can't get it up, you're not stuck with it on your neck without a power rack.

[aqua-beowulf]

go to this site and have a readhttp://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/lat-pull-down.html...and heres a little more.........Lat Pull-downs Behind the Neck

by Marc David
An exercise to avoid

No story to go with this one, but think about it. Eventually you'll be doing some heavy weight. In a very unnatural position. That is a recipe for injury. It's much more natural and safe to do the same movement to the front. Either way your lats are getting worked. But behind the neck puts pressure on the shoulders which isn't the muscle group you are trying work.

This same philosophy goes for pull-ups. They should be done to the front as well. If you do pull-downs, try doing it to the front. Don't even think about behind the neck as they won't do any more for you except possibly give your an excuse not to do any more pull-downs.........................then go here and look for pulldowns and rc injury etc etc............http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e/shoulder.php

I have to disagree... most people on this forum know how I feel about btn exercises... they have helped to add width to my lats like pullups/chins to the front never could. I've been doing them for years without any trouble. I do btn chins, btn pullups, and btn presses several times per week. I think it has alot to do with your physical structure, as well as shoulder girdle flexibility, as to whether or not you could benefit from them without becoming injured. Despite what research states, I do get better development from btn exercises, and they will remain a staple in my routines. I think it's great to make people aware of the possible hazards, but not to discourage them from finding what works best for them. Keeping an open mind is important.

[lonewolfshome]

just a little bit more on laterals and pdbtn and benching etc .atleast attempt to read this.........................................SHOUL DER INJURIES-http://www.drweitz.com/scientific/injuries.htm

As a trade-off for mobility, the shoulder lacks some of the stability found in other joints.(53) The shoulder is under considerable stress during many commonly performed weight training exercises and, as a result, is frequently injured.(3,31,54,55) Shoulder pain is often taken for granted or ignored by many bodybuilders. For example, anterior shoulder pain felt secondary to performing bench presses (ie, achieving a "burn") is frequently assumed to be a sore anterior deltoid muscle from a hard workout. It may, in fact, represent a sign of rotator cuff strain or impingement.

Impingement syndrome and anterior instability are the most common types of shoulder conditions associated with weight training. It is important to recognize that these conditions often coexist.(54) Rotator cuff strain/tendinitis/tear, proximal biceps tendinitis, and subacromial bursitis frequently result from subacromial impingement. However, primary tendinitis resulting from overload may also occur. Less common types of shoulder injuries include brachial plexus neuropathy, suprascapular nerve impingement, posterior glenohumeral instability (due to heavy bench presses), acromio-clavicular joint sprains (AC), proximal biceps tendon tears, pectoralis major strains or tears, and osteolysis of the distal clavicle.



Impingement syndrome

Impingement syndrome refers to impingement of the rotator cuff tendons, especially the supraspinatus tendon, under the subacromial arch. The biceps tendon or the subacromial bursa may also be impinged under the subacromial arch. The position that appears to be most damaging is abduction with internal rotation. It is not clear whether rotator cuff muscle/ tendon overload precedes impingement or is caused by it.(53,56)

A major factor in shoulder impingement injuries in weight lifters is the muscle imbalance syndrome mentioned earlier, highlighted by overly tight shoulder internal rotators and weak shoulder external rotators.(53,57) A substantial portion of the typical training program is dedicated to training the pectorals and the lats. Both tend to produce internal rotation of the shoulders. The external shoulder rotators (the infraspinatus and the teres minor) are often neglected.

There is considerable stress imposed on the rotator cuff muscles during the performance of many exercises, such as the bench press. Too many sets of exercises for the same body part with excessive weight can result in fatigue and overload injury to the rotator cuff. Therefore, weight lifters should be encouraged to perform fewer sets and no more than 12 sets per body part, including warm-ups.

A common exercise is the lateral raise with the shoulder in internal rotation (Fig 6). The lifter is often instructed to point the thumb down as though pouring water from a pitcher in an effort to better isolate the side deltoid. It may be true, but there is a risk of accelerating or aggravating an impingement syndrome. The clinician should suggest that lateral raises be performed face down on an incline bench positioned at about 75 degrees up from the ground. This position will isolate the side delts without creating impingement (Fig 7).

Another common mistake is raising the arms above 90 degrees while performing side raises. Unless the thumb is pointing up, this position may increase the risk of impinging the rotator cuff tendons under the subacromial arch. Shoulder protraction is associated with narrowing of the subacromial space.(58) Allowing the shoulders to become protracted forward beyond the neutral position during the performance of exercises such as bench presses may increase the strain to this area.



Anterior instability of the glenohumeral joint

Instability may be due to a single-event trauma where the capsule and glenoid labrum are torn or may be atraumatic representing a tendency toward a loose joint capsule. When either inherently loose or torn loose, the capsule may be unable to support the shoulder in the extremes of abduction and external rotation. Therefore, exercises that place the shoulder in this position should be modified or avoided such as the behind-the-neck press, the behind-the-neck pulldown, and the pec deck(59) (Figs 5, 9, and 10). It may also occur from repeatedly hyperextending the shoulder during the performance of bench presses, flyes, and the pec deck by lowering the bar or dumbbells to the point where the elbows are behind the back. Weight lifters not only place their shoulders in an abducted/externally rotated or hyperextended position, but also do it with considerable weight held in their hands. The general principle to use in advising patients is to avoid positions in which the elbows extend behind the coronal plane of the body. It is important to remind the patient that overhead positions are less stable and therefore more risky. While instability is often caused by gradual repetitive capsular stretching injury, Olympic lifters tend to suffer instability resulting from a single-event traumatic injury. They often lose control of a weight while holding the weight in an overhead position.(54)
.................................................. ...............Less common shoulder injuries related to weight training

There have been a number of reports in the literature of suprascapular nerve injury either via stretch or compression. Abduction of the arm against resistance has been implicated as the mechanism of injury.(61) The lateral raise and the shoulder press are two exercises that involve abduction against resistance.



A number of reports(5,20,62) document the occurrence of tears of the pectoralis major muscle or tendon, usually from bench pressing. The tendon may either avulse from the bone, tear at the musculotendinous junction, or tear in the muscle itself, usually near the musculotendinous junction. Most of these injuries occur while the arms are extended behind the chest.(20) To prevent such injuries the lifter should avoid lowering the bar to the point at which the shoulder is hyperextended.(5,20,62) Regular stretching may be helpful.



An entity known as atraumatic osteolysis of the distal clavicle has been reported in a number of studies as being related to weight training. This condition, referred to as weight lifter's shoulder, is marked by pain at the acromioclavicular joint while performing the dip, bench press, clean-and-jerk, and overhead presses. Radiographs show osteoporosis and loss of subchondral bony detail at the distal clavicle. In addition, cystic changes may also be present.(63,64) Atraumatic osteolysis is believed to result from repetitive loading of the acromioclavicular joint resulting in neurovascular compromise to the distal clavicle. Management is difficult given that most patients are serious lifters. Either a dramatic reduction in weight, elimination of the offending maneuver, or substitution of exercises may be suggested. Alternatives to the bench press include a narrow grip bench, cable crossovers, and the incline or decline press. If unsuccessful, elimination of heavy lifting for 6 months is recommended. There is some evidence that those treated surgically with amputation of the distal I to 2 cm of the clavicle are able to return to some lifting. However, many athletes are not able to return to a pre-injury level of lifting.(63)

[Sir_Malak]

just a little bit more on laterals and pdbtn and benching etc .atleast attempt to read this.........................................SHOUL DER INJURIES-http://www.drweitz.com/scientific/injuries.htm

As a trade-off for mobility, the shoulder lacks some of the stability found in other joints.(53) The shoulder is under considerable stress during many commonly performed weight training exercises and, as a result, is frequently injured.(3,31,54,55) Shoulder pain is often taken for granted or ignored by many bodybuilders. For example, anterior shoulder pain felt secondary to performing bench presses (ie, achieving a "burn") is frequently assumed to be a sore anterior deltoid muscle from a hard workout. It may, in fact, represent a sign of rotator cuff strain or impingement.

Impingement syndrome and anterior instability are the most common types of shoulder conditions associated with weight training. It is important to recognize that these conditions often coexist.(54) Rotator cuff strain/tendinitis/tear, proximal biceps tendinitis, and subacromial bursitis frequently result from subacromial impingement. However, primary tendinitis resulting from overload may also occur. Less common types of shoulder injuries include brachial plexus neuropathy, suprascapular nerve impingement, posterior glenohumeral instability (due to heavy bench presses), acromio-clavicular joint sprains (AC), proximal biceps tendon tears, pectoralis major strains or tears, and osteolysis of the distal clavicle.



Impingement syndrome

Impingement syndrome refers to impingement of the rotator cuff tendons, especially the supraspinatus tendon, under the subacromial arch. The biceps tendon or the subacromial bursa may also be impinged under the subacromial arch. The position that appears to be most damaging is abduction with internal rotation. It is not clear whether rotator cuff muscle/ tendon overload precedes impingement or is caused by it.(53,56)

A major factor in shoulder impingement injuries in weight lifters is the muscle imbalance syndrome mentioned earlier, highlighted by overly tight shoulder internal rotators and weak shoulder external rotators.(53,57) A substantial portion of the typical training program is dedicated to training the pectorals and the lats. Both tend to produce internal rotation of the shoulders. The external shoulder rotators (the infraspinatus and the teres minor) are often neglected.

There is considerable stress imposed on the rotator cuff muscles during the performance of many exercises, such as the bench press. Too many sets of exercises for the same body part with excessive weight can result in fatigue and overload injury to the rotator cuff. Therefore, weight lifters should be encouraged to perform fewer sets and no more than 12 sets per body part, including warm-ups.

A common exercise is the lateral raise with the shoulder in internal rotation (Fig 6). The lifter is often instructed to point the thumb down as though pouring water from a pitcher in an effort to better isolate the side deltoid. It may be true, but there is a risk of accelerating or aggravating an impingement syndrome. The clinician should suggest that lateral raises be performed face down on an incline bench positioned at about 75 degrees up from the ground. This position will isolate the side delts without creating impingement (Fig 7).

Another common mistake is raising the arms above 90 degrees while performing side raises. Unless the thumb is pointing up, this position may increase the risk of impinging the rotator cuff tendons under the subacromial arch. Shoulder protraction is associated with narrowing of the subacromial space.(58) Allowing the shoulders to become protracted forward beyond the neutral position during the performance of exercises such as bench presses may increase the strain to this area.



Anterior instability of the glenohumeral joint

Instability may be due to a single-event trauma where the capsule and glenoid labrum are torn or may be atraumatic representing a tendency toward a loose joint capsule. When either inherently loose or torn loose, the capsule may be unable to support the shoulder in the extremes of abduction and external rotation. Therefore, exercises that place the shoulder in this position should be modified or avoided such as the behind-the-neck press, the behind-the-neck pulldown, and the pec deck(59) (Figs 5, 9, and 10). It may also occur from repeatedly hyperextending the shoulder during the performance of bench presses, flyes, and the pec deck by lowering the bar or dumbbells to the point where the elbows are behind the back. Weight lifters not only place their shoulders in an abducted/externally rotated or hyperextended position, but also do it with considerable weight held in their hands. The general principle to use in advising patients is to avoid positions in which the elbows extend behind the coronal plane of the body. It is important to remind the patient that overhead positions are less stable and therefore more risky. While instability is often caused by gradual repetitive capsular stretching injury, Olympic lifters tend to suffer instability resulting from a single-event traumatic injury. They often lose control of a weight while holding the weight in an overhead position.(54)
.................................................. ...............Less common shoulder injuries related to weight training

There have been a number of reports in the literature of suprascapular nerve injury either via stretch or compression. Abduction of the arm against resistance has been implicated as the mechanism of injury.(61) The lateral raise and the shoulder press are two exercises that involve abduction against resistance.



A number of reports(5,20,62) document the occurrence of tears of the pectoralis major muscle or tendon, usually from bench pressing. The tendon may either avulse from the bone, tear at the musculotendinous junction, or tear in the muscle itself, usually near the musculotendinous junction. Most of these injuries occur while the arms are extended behind the chest.(20) To prevent such injuries the lifter should avoid lowering the bar to the point at which the shoulder is hyperextended.(5,20,62) Regular stretching may be helpful.



An entity known as atraumatic osteolysis of the distal clavicle has been reported in a number of studies as being related to weight training. This condition, referred to as weight lifter's shoulder, is marked by pain at the acromioclavicular joint while performing the dip, bench press, clean-and-jerk, and overhead presses. Radiographs show osteoporosis and loss of subchondral bony detail at the distal clavicle. In addition, cystic changes may also be present.(63,64) Atraumatic osteolysis is believed to result from repetitive loading of the acromioclavicular joint resulting in neurovascular compromise to the distal clavicle. Management is difficult given that most patients are serious lifters. Either a dramatic reduction in weight, elimination of the offending maneuver, or substitution of exercises may be suggested. Alternatives to the bench press include a narrow grip bench, cable crossovers, and the incline or decline press. If unsuccessful, elimination of heavy lifting for 6 months is recommended. There is some evidence that those treated surgically with amputation of the distal I to 2 cm of the clavicle are able to return to some lifting. However, many athletes are not able to return to a pre-injury level of lifting.(63)

Ive heard of bb'rs refusing to flat bench heavily because of this and they stick to weighted dips etc... since they can still get growth without the uber weight.