My friends and girl friends all say they can't tell I go to the gym and I'm wasting my time. Even when I had cut in the summer and weighed 64kg. So I've started doing a program where I do 210 sets a week.
My journey: last two years I consistently train and bulk and cut, tracking my calories, macros and weight. I train with high intensity (rpe 9/10) and great form, but I don't get sore at all.
Overall, I’ve focused on my back. I've done an upper lower body split 4x a week. Each week I've done in total:
6 x squats 80kg, 3 x Romanian deadlifts 110kg, 3 sets of hip thrusts, 6 sets of pullups/chin-ups 8 reps, 6 x barbell rows 10x65kg, 3 x overhead press 30kgx10, 6 sets of triceps, 6 sets of hammer curls, 7 sets of biceps, 6 sets of face pulls. 36 sets abs a week. 10 sets side delt raises, 10 sets rear neck training, 10 sets hip abductor work. I progressively overload when I can and deload around every 6 weeks. No momentum, v slow eccentrics on all exercises.
before the last two years Many martial arts. I've trained the big compound moves and abs 3x a week since I was 16 and a half, but without bulking and cutting (odd how some friends became massive without ever bulking and cutting!).
Diet last two years
I eat the same thing every day
Meal 1 immediately after waking up.
500g whole milk (when cutting skimmed milk), 35g 5% fat beef (total 2.5g leucine).
100g carrots
30g whole oats
Gym training session
Meal 2: 4/6 hours after waking.
3 medium eggs (150g), 35g 5% fat beef (total 2.5g leucine).
250g frozen spinach
200g frozen brussel sprouts
250 frozen brocolli
300g oats (30g when cutting)
40g seeds (360 calories fat)
meal 3: 4/6 hours later
75g 5% fat beef (total 2.5g leucine).
50g oats
meal 4:
120g lean wild alaskan salmon immediately before bed (total 2.5g leucine)
Overall very rough macros a day:
170g protein, 55g fat
Cutting: 2000 calories, 170g carbs
Bulking: 2750 calories, 330g carbs. I made it 3400 calories for the new super high-volume program.
I gain and loose around .5% bodyweight a week.
Progress: I'm now 21 years old, 5'10 and 70kg, 18 percent bodyfat.
I attach pictures of me after eating a massive amount of food at lunchtime, without a pump and without flexing. Are those strength numbers and pictures worryingly small for someone of my experience?
New program
I've designed a new super high-volume program to run for a short duration before my tendons and fatigue becomes excessive. I try to add a set per week of each muscle group trained to progressively overload. I ran it for the last few weeks, and I'm finally getting sore! Please find it attached.
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Thread: No Progress
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05-08-2024, 05:06 AM #1
No Progress
Last edited by James3382; 05-10-2024 at 07:06 AM.
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05-08-2024, 05:59 AM #2
Everyone is going to respond differently when it comes to eating, training, and other aspects of bodybuilding (assuming bodybuilding is your goal). I'd probably expect someone who's doing everything decently well for 2 years to look a little more developed, but you look just fine, imo. If you were 10kg heavier and all of that extra weight was fat, most people would probably say you looked stronger. So I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think.
There are 2 things I would naturally look to for most people in your situation.
First would be diet - any human who wants to get bigger needs to be in a caloric surplus. It seems like you have a decent diet plan in place, and I'm assuming when you're 'bulking' that you're actually gaining weight - if you're not then you'll need to reassess.
Second would be training - having appropriate volume, intensity, exercise selection, etc.
My natural reaction to people who lay out something like what you're doing is that the volume is probably too high and the intensity is probably too low. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, it sounds like your intensity level is decent, but something definitely seems to be off based upon the working weights you're using. A preponderance of people would be using heavier working weights on the compound lifts after 2 years if their training program is decent.
So some questions for you:
Are you SURE you're at 9-10 RPE with good form?
Do you, or have you ever, gone to failure so that you know what a 9/10 RPE actually feels like?
How long are your rest periods between sets? 1 minute? 10 minutes? Something in between there?
Around how long does a typical workout take you?
Not trying to be rude at all with any of these questions - just trying to understand/re-confirm what you're saying.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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05-08-2024, 06:56 AM #3
Your pics look appropriate for those numbers. On the other hand, the numbers are pretty low for someone who's trained for 6 years.
But they did bulk. If you've been eating at maintenance for 2 years, where would the muscle weight come from given that you're not that heavy?Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Galatians 4:16
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05-08-2024, 07:17 AM #4
Bro, you don't need more volume, you need to put on 15-20 lbs in bodyweight and get stronger. I'd do 531 for hardgainers or any strength-focused program. Bring the intensity and up your calories.
https://forums.t-nation.com/t/5-3-1-...gainers/281696▪█─────█▪ Equipment Crew #79 ▪█─────█▪
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05-08-2024, 08:09 AM #5
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05-08-2024, 08:22 AM #6
Really appreciate all that advice.
Rest breaks - 3 minutes compounds. 1/2 minutes isolations.
https://studio.youtube.com/video/tlABppeDx48/edit
Vids of me training below. I certainly don't think I can do more reps with decent form.
https://studio.youtube.com/video/O3BnQ04pW6Y/edit
https://studio.youtube.com/video/zYPO7-QJmqA/edit
The scale says I've gained 6kg over the last 6 months - I'm visibly chubbier - maybe 1 kg is water weight.
The new super high volume program takes maybe 2 hours a day with warmups.
Maybe the lift numbers are low due to how slowly I do reps and pause for a deep stretch at the bottom? And high reps?
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05-08-2024, 08:22 AM #7
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05-08-2024, 08:24 AM #8
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05-08-2024, 08:26 AM #9
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05-08-2024, 08:28 AM #10
I should've been more specific, sorry. before the two years (6 years ago) I trained 3x a week but had weak spinal erectors so did lots of one leg squats and hip thrusts for example and belt squats, and chest supported rows and chins. I did some arms too, not much though. My program was similar to starting strength 5x5 (but with 8-12 reps).
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05-08-2024, 08:38 AM #11
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05-08-2024, 09:01 AM #12
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05-08-2024, 09:11 AM #13
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05-08-2024, 09:11 AM #14
In regards to 5/3/1 being a strength based program - Strength and size are largely inseparable. You'll need to gain strength to gain size. I'm not saying 5/3/1 is the best program for getting bigger - just wanted to point out the relationship between strength and size.
Your effort level looks decent in those video's.
I'd say that 30 seconds rest between sets on isolations is not nearly enough unless you're intentionally doing work that's pretty far from failure (which probably isn't a good idea). For reference, I do most of my isolations as rest/pause, with 45 seconds rest between sets. With 45 seconds rest between, I typically see about a 50% percent reduction in the number of reps I'm able to do. If I do a set of 10 on the first set and wait 45 seconds, on the second set I'll usually be able to do 3-5 reps. I guess what I'm suggesting is that if you're doing straight sets (same number of reps in each set) with 30 seconds rest between, you're VERY far from being at 9 or 10 RPE in your first set or two. These isolation exercises in particular need to be done closer to failure than what you would seem to be doing right now. My advice would be to reduce the amount of sets you're doing, increase your rest times, and go much closer to failure (or actually to failure) on your isolation work. You're very likely not getting much benefit from how you're doing isolation work right now.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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05-08-2024, 09:12 AM #15
There are no linear results of increases in volume to increases in muscle. It's more like a standard bell shaped curve. Cut back on your volume, eat right and you'll probably have better results. You want to be at the top of the bell shaped curve. I studey this inn gradiate scool.
Funihe renal hoses in offevil Kanas for traving wokes
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05-08-2024, 09:19 AM #16
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05-08-2024, 09:49 AM #17
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05-08-2024, 09:55 AM #18
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05-08-2024, 10:00 AM #19
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05-08-2024, 05:27 PM #20
- Join Date: Jul 2006
- Location: Bangkok, Thailand
- Age: 35
- Posts: 7,631
- Rep Power: 13967
Your lifts correspond with your body honestly (and you don't have a bad build at that). But, at that low bodyweight, you would be hard-pressed to have a high amount of muscle. Now, if you don't want to gain a lot of size, that's okay too... it's your life.
You need to bump up that weight if you want size and you need to work on getting those numbers up a a bit. At your age, you should be working on getting some strength under your belt.
Realistically, I would tell you to get on Bill Starr's 5x5 and run that for 6 months while crushing peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and whole milk in addition to your normal meals.
My advice to any young lifter... build strength in your teens and twenties... then in your 30's you can pump more volume and continue to build strength and size at a slower rate when injuries become more inevitable and life just gets busier.https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180003183&p=1635918623#post1635918623
New Shanghai Log!
"225, 315, 405 whatever. Yeah these benchmark digits come to mean a lot to us, the few warriors in this arena. They are, however, just numbers. I'm guilty of that sh*t too, waiting for somebody to powder my nuts cuz I did 20 reps of whatever the **** on the bench. Big f*king deal. It is all relative." G Diesel
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05-09-2024, 05:26 AM #21
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05-09-2024, 01:21 PM #22
How am I only 1" taller and 40 lb heavier than you with a similar bodyfat %? Your assumption that those calories will necessarily increase your bodyfat % is incorrect and counter productive to achieving your goals. Your bodyfat may increase a bit, but you can always cut later especially at your age.
Have you ever trained in low rep ranges? I suspect your perception of RPE 9/10 is off. It will become a lot clearer when you start failing at 5 reps. Also, don't get hung up on stuff like slow eccentric and mind-muscle connection. These are things to worry about when you are at solidly intermediate strength numbers. When you just want to get big and strong, they hardly pay any dividends and focusing on them can distract you from the goal of putting more weight on the bar. Just concentrate on controlling all phases of the movement and full range of motion.
Finally, don't waste time with an excessive number of accessory movements. If your ass is still small when you're squatting more than three plates then maybe do some hip thrusts. Maybe. I don't.▪█─────█▪ Equipment Crew #79 ▪█─────█▪
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05-09-2024, 05:19 PM #23
- Join Date: Jul 2006
- Location: Bangkok, Thailand
- Age: 35
- Posts: 7,631
- Rep Power: 13967
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180003183&p=1635918623#post1635918623
New Shanghai Log!
"225, 315, 405 whatever. Yeah these benchmark digits come to mean a lot to us, the few warriors in this arena. They are, however, just numbers. I'm guilty of that sh*t too, waiting for somebody to powder my nuts cuz I did 20 reps of whatever the **** on the bench. Big f*king deal. It is all relative." G Diesel
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05-09-2024, 07:00 PM #24
It’s funny how people who complain that they’ve made no progress for years always have an answer to any advice you try to give them. 5-10, staying at 150 lbs and wondering why he’s not gaining muscle.
There’s nothing to suspect, by definition when OP does 6 sets of an exercise for 10 reps all at the same weight, all of those sets won’t be at RPE 9/10. And 210 sets total with perfect form, slow eccentrics etc.? If that’s the case, there’s no way every set would be RPE 9/10.
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05-10-2024, 03:21 AM #25
Thank you very much!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zYPO7-QJmqA
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/O3BnQ04pW6Y
Squatting 80kg for 6 reps - I think it's RPE 9 - I certainly don't think I could get another rep with decent form. I'll increase calories and follow Greyskull LP - seems idiot proof and a good widely accepted beginner strength program.
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05-10-2024, 03:30 AM #26
[QUOTEOverall, I’ve focused on my back. Each week I've done:
6 x squats 80kg, 3 x Romanian deadlifts 110kg, 3 sets of hip thrusts, 6 sets of pullups/chin-ups 8 reps, 6 x barbell rows 10x65kg, 3 x overhead press 30kgx10, 6 sets of triceps, 6 sets of hammer curls, 7 sets of biceps, 6 sets of face pulls. 36 sets abs a week. 10 sets side delt raises, 10 sets rear neck training, 10 sets hip abductor work. I progressively overload when I can and deload around every 6 weeks. No momentum, v slow eccentrics on all exercises.[/QUOTE]
As I said before, I'm perfectly willing to take the advice and am not trying to answer back, just clarify my reasoning (e.g. I upped the volume since I made little muscle gain on a popular strength focused program 2 years ago - I'll try it again now though).
Sorry, I should've made clearer - I used to train 4x a week so I did 3 sets of squats for 10 reps twice a week.
Now I train 7 days a week, and so 30 sets a session. Most of those are such tiny muscles (hip abductors, neck, lower abs, wrist curls for elbow pain) - I didn't think they would impact my lifts too much. I agree with you that even still, I could be doing far too much volume to do RPE 9/10.
I'll cut out the accessories and follow a basic idiot-proof starting strength program and up my calories.
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05-10-2024, 04:06 AM #27
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05-10-2024, 04:08 AM #28
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05-10-2024, 04:13 AM #29
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05-10-2024, 04:14 AM #30
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