How long did it take you to visibly change?

[tonguey]

I was just wondering how long did it take you to see the results of your lifting? Is it in a weeks time or like six months?
Are the changes supposed to be really slow? how am I supposed to know if my results are good or just mediocre?

From the time you had no muscle to now how long did it take?
Im gettin frustrated with my results and I dont know what Im doing wrong.

[MiloMan]

How much do you weigh? Has your body weight gone up or down recently? If so, how much, and over what time period?

How many calories do you take in, on an average day?

[f34r]

I notice changes at every 10 pounds

[Quantum_Man]

When I started lifting again, I noticed changes in like 2-3 weeks. Good ole muscle memory!

[wildturkey]

I notice them all the time. When I first started I piled it on really quick, and it was very noticable, now my progress is slower, but I still notice small things but most of my friends don't really notice.

Nick.

[BennyT]

Since exams started i stopped lifting and eating properly, and have lost 2kg ... its VERY noticeable to me, especially arms and chest

[Lee_5]

i noticed good results after about 5 months.

[akaMarko]

When I started lifting( April 2003) I noticed changes in the first 3-4 weeks. People around me also started to comment. After about 6 months the comments became less frequent tho I could still see results from the original measurements I took.

Resist the urge to look in the mirror everyday cause it'll drive you nuts. Check yourself every couple of weeks by taking measurements. Also, don't go by the scale, since fat and muscle appear/weigh differentlym, this can add to the confusion of whether or not you're gaining.

[Bignbuff]

When I first started lifting it took me about 2-3 months.

[sculli]

You will notice strength improvements first and the physical changes will follow. This is not a quick process in general, think of it as a marathon not a sprint. It takes time to get results and to really get the best results it needs to be a lifestyle rather than a hobby.

[Nainoa]

Now that I've made lifting a "Life Style Change" not just a winter recreation...

I noticed the most changes in the first 12 weeks... Mostly due to the fat I dropped... I went from 16.3% to 11.8% in 12 weeks. Then for a long time I didn't really notice much in the way of changes...

Started seeing small improvements etc...
Most of them were like "Body surprises." Like the day I was scratching an itch on my chest, and reached for my drink. All of a sudden I felt this knob... Looked in the mirror and sure enough it was the right sternal attachment of my pec!

A week or two later my left pec attachment appeared...

Then I did HST...

A week or two later by my right pec coming out from the shadow of my collar bone... A month later my left pec followed suit.

Finished my Strategic deconditioning... Put in a few lifts, and all of a sudden I noticed my dreamed of "Horse Shoe" on my Right Tri.
(For some reason my right side seems to be ahead of the left pretty good)

Heck I didn't even realize that my Two-Pack abs was starting to show a 4 pack until one of my buddies mentioned it to me.

Recently I've noticed that I need to buy bigger polo's for work, because I keep ripping the arm pits when I stretch really big.

It's just a process that comes along in bits and pieces.

One thing I've noticed though... That first 12 weeks, I got a lot of comments from everyone... Then the comments went pretty cold, from the people who see me on a regular basis.

I was feeling a little frustrated for a while... Then I was watching an old video of me on a camping trip last summer flexing (Hamming) for the camera. And I was amazed at the differences!

Then I ran into some old friends, who all went off their rockers at the improvements I've made.

But the best one... An old friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a year stopped in to say Hi. She walked through the door, I didn't have a shirt on, had just finished my workout, so I was pumped still. And she said "Holy **** are you lookin' good!"

And that was a friggin Awesome feeling!

The one thing I wish I would have done was taken pictures at the very begining, so I could compare them now whenever I get a case of Frustration!

Nainoa

[jmack93]

After 2 weeks I saw bulges that weren't there before.

After 4 weeks I saw my body starting to take a new shape.

After 8 weeks I saw a body I didn't think I'd have for 6 months.



If you're busting ass and not seeing results, my guess is what you're doing wrong is:

1.) You're not accurately measuring the output of your workouts.

2.) You're leaving too much muscle unstimulated.

3.) You're not resting enough.


Here are the solutions:

1.) Use the Power Factor and Power Index to measure your workouts.

2.) Increase your weights and use partial ranges of motion (use a leg press with the safeties on for legs/calves, a power rack or smith machine for deadlifts, shrugs, bench, close grip bench, military press, lat pulldown machine for lats, cable for biceps and abs).

3.) Use your PF and PIs to know when you need to add more rest between workouts.

[f34r]

Originally posted by jmack93
After 2 weeks I saw bulges that weren't there before.

After 4 weeks I saw my body starting to take a new shape.

After 8 weeks I saw a body I didn't think I'd have for 6 months.



If you're busting ass and not seeing results, my guess is what you're doing wrong is:

1.) You're not accurately measuring the output of your workouts.

2.) You're leaving too much muscle unstimulated.

3.) You're not resting enough.


Here are the solutions:

1.) Use the Power Factor and Power Index to measure your workouts.

2.) Increase your weights and use partial ranges of motion (use a leg press with the safeties on for legs/calves, a power rack or smith machine for deadlifts, shrugs, bench, close grip bench, military press, lat pulldown machine for lats, cable for biceps and abs).

3.) Use your PF and PIs to know when you need to add more rest between workouts.

Are you Pete Sisco? Cuz you're spouting his ****

[jmack93]

So let me guess, you believe what you believe, and it's ok if you share that with others, but because you disagree with what I believe, my beliefs are "****", and I'm just supposed to keep it to myself? Sorry bud, aint going to happen.

This place is about discussing training, right? So that's what I'm doing.

If you have evidence that I've recommended something that won't work, or evidence that what you recommend is better, provide that evidence please.

Otherwise, what is the point of your communication?

[Supadude]

Originally posted by BennyT
Since exams started i stopped lifting and eating properly, and have lost 2kg ... its VERY noticeable to me, especially arms and chest

You lost 2kg in one week?

[f34r]

Originally posted by jmack93
So let me guess, you believe what you believe, and it's ok if you share that with others, but because you disagree with what I believe, my beliefs are "****", and I'm just supposed to keep it to myself? Sorry bud, aint going to happen.

This place is about discussing training, right? So that's what I'm doing.

If you have evidence that I've recommended something that won't work, or evidence that what you recommend is better, provide that evidence please.

Otherwise, what is the point of your communication?

The point was to ask whether you were indeed Pete Sisco. You have repeated everything he says to the letter.

As for your beliefs being **** - I didn't say that.

Are you Pete Sisco? Cuz you're spouting his exact methods

..is what I meant.

And about discusion. Let's do so.

Isn't limited ROM dangerous on your joints? You load them up with way more weight than usual then you stop when they are in a vulnerable position.

In Sisco's book he talks about how later on you will be working out once every 2 months or so. HIT-style training isn't it?

And Powerfactor and the other thing.. that's **** imho. It's just a different measuring system they use. If you want to prove things you have to use a pre-established measuring system, not make up your own.

[MisterT]

I noticed after several months. Some noticed beforehand only because I see myself every day and they haven't seen me in longer durations. Hence why measurements are a good indicator as to whether or not you are making progress.

[rkt11]

rip the arm part of my shirt reaching up

takes some time personally ive seen great gains but the best will come in a few months

[BennyT]

Originally posted by Supadude
You lost 2kg in one week?

In 2 weeks .. bear in mind I was eating below maintenance, and at non-constant times..

[justincgdick]

I went from doing nothing to working hard so I actually noticed my muscles harden up after about 2 weeks. The size difference was losing weight at first and after about 2 months I saw the muscle size difference. After about 2 week periods I can see differences but other people don't see em unless they see a pic.

[tonguey]

Originally posted by MiloMan
How much do you weigh? Has your body weight gone up or down recently? If so, how much, and over what time period?

How many calories do you take in, on an average day?

I weigh 200lbs with 20% bodyfat. I went up five pounds from when I started training three months ago. It seems I havent gained in measurements but I do see a change in my body from the fat loss.
My strength gains have stopped so Im wondering what to change here.

I take in 3000 cals average but somedays not as much.

[sculli]

Originally posted by tonguey
I weigh 200lbs with 20% bodyfat. I went up five pounds from when I started training three months ago. It seems I havent gained in measurements but I do see a change in my body from the fat loss.
My strength gains have stopped so Im wondering what to change here.

I take in 3000 cals average but somedays not as much.

You should lower your cals first off since you need to lose some BF. Also you didn't post your training routine so it's hard for us to give advice. If you've been on the same routine for the whole 3 months chances are if you change it up you will see improvements again.

[jmack93]

"The point was to ask whether you were indeed Pete Sisco. You have repeated everything he says to the letter."

Nope, I'm not Pete Sisco, John Little or Tony Reno, the 3 individuals who stand to finanacially gain most from my posts here. I do, however, respect the intellectual integrity and quality of their work, and the balls it takes to tell the entire bodybuilding world that unless you use scientific measurements, you have no idea what you're doing. Bodybuilders like to flex as an argument: "Dude, my arms are way more massive than yours, so you obviously don't know as much as me." But this means little, since flexing doesn't at all account for genetics or random training success. It *displays* those things, and might also display predictable training success, but objective measurement also displays predictable training success. What the fitness community NEEDS to flex more is Ockhams' Razor. We can't change genetics or harness randomness (if you figure out how, let me know) - but we can harness predictable success. That's what I believe using the PF and PI measurements allow you to do - predict success. And the proof's in the pudding in every workout.



"As for your beliefs being **** - I didn't say that."

Fair enough - chalk it up to internet ambiguity.



"Isn't limited ROM dangerous on your joints? You load them up with way more weight than usual then you stop when they are in a vulnerable position."

Great question. Short answer: No. First let's clarify that you absolutely do NOT load them up with weight when you have your joints in a vulnerable position. You load them up with weight precisely when your joints are in the best position of leverage. So in fact, your joints risk injury FAR more with full-range-of-motion exercises using heavy weights. When's the last time you saw someone blow a knee out standing up? Never. But bend their knee back and apply their body weight and see what happens...

Sure, lifting heavy weights does present risk. So you minimize that risk by using power racks etc, or the equipment from eXplosive Fitness. But the risk doesn't come from doing partial reps in your strong range, it comes from weight training equipment that doesn't provide adequate control of the load. If you use the right equipment, it's totally safe, and actually helps strengthen your joints and ligaments.


"In Sisco's book he talks about how later on you will be working out once every 2 months or so. HIT-style training isn't it?"

PFT and SCT have many things in common with HIT, and it does provide by design the most high-intensity workout possible, so sure, you could call it that. The difference is that traditional HIT doesn't allow you to precisely measure what you've done, so even though you have a lot of the elements of actually working out correctly (heavy loads, low volume, partial reps), you're missing the planning element between one workout and the next.


"And Powerfactor and the other thing.. that's **** imho. It's just a different measuring system they use. If you want to prove things you have to use a pre-established measuring system, not make up your own."

Pre-established by whom? Every measuring system had to have been made up by *somebody* at some point. And that's just the point - Sisco and Little, 2 guys who knew just about as much about bodybuilding as anyone when they started their research - looked far and wide for a pre-established measuring system. But there wasn't one. And to this day, as far as I know, there still aren't any other than what they've come up with. So they did what any intelligent person worth the gray matter they've been given would do - they thought about what they wanted and figured out how to get it.

Hope that helps.

[JC-orginalbdass]

I didn't notice any gains until I started deadlifting. Bottom line.

[Nainoa]

Yeah I've just started "Seriously" deadlifting... And I swear, I friggin feel bigger every day!

Just my two cents

Nainoa

[Never_GiveUp]

I gained about 20 lbs of good mass (15-16 lbm) in about 3 to 4 months and didnt notice much difference in before and after pictures, however there were small differences. But results will vary for everyone, for some 10 pounds may make them look alot different, while for others (like me) 20+ pounds may seem like nothing. You just have to be patient and push-on and results will come.

[f34r]

Originally posted by jmack93
[/B]

I see.. okay. I have tried Sisco's training if you're wondering. Hurt my wrist in the power rack =(

Anyway, I have one last question, about SCT. He's saying that as you progress, you may need to workout once every 2 months, to allow your body to fully recuperate.
My question is - in the long run, is that safe? I mean consistently subjecting your body to so much stress that it takes months to recover can't be good for health, can it?

[tonguey]

Originally posted by JC-orginalbdass
I didn't notice any gains until I started deadlifting. Bottom line.

I gotta start deadlifting then!

[jmack93]

Originally posted by f34r
I see.. okay. I have tried Sisco's training if you're wondering. Hurt my wrist in the power rack =(

Anyway, I have one last question, about SCT. He's saying that as you progress, you may need to workout once every 2 months, to allow your body to fully recuperate.
My question is - in the long run, is that safe? I mean consistently subjecting your body to so much stress that it takes months to recover can't be good for health, can it?

That bites about the injury. I'm not a very large-boned or muscular guy, so I'm not normally tempted to go larger than I can, especially since I workout on my own. Gotta stick to your form, don't try to do too much too soon, and listen to bad pain. I once strained my neck in military presses, not because of any mechanical failure, but because I broke form and did something stupid - and a week of serious stiffness was the price. Oops!

So rest .... in SCT, the rule is if your SCT times are down for a significant # of exercises in one routine, you add 3 days to your rest between those routines. If your times are down for just a few exercises, skip them until the next time. So let's say you're on a full-body workout, once a week, on Monday. Well if the hold times godown on a few exercises one day, then next Monday you'd just skip them, and the following Monday you'd be back to the full routine.

Then, if more than half or so of the exercises go down, you add 3 days to your rest between workouts. So now it's Monday, then the following Thursday etc.

These rest periods are somewhat advanced, but honestly, more rest is only a bad thing if you overdo it to the extreme. If you got to these rest times through actual record-keeping and experimentation, it would be perfectly appropriate for your body and level of development. An extra day or two here or there won't totally kill your growth curve. An extra week before you're at that level might diminish it a bit more than you'd want.

Now... I'm just learning about Max Contraction Training, which is similar, but different in some ways, including the rest recommendations - but the pricinciples are the same: When you plateau, add more rest.

Hope that helps.

[Salford Reds]

I have a really good horseshoe on my tricep too - but still love handles and a few pounds on my gut.

Probably took me about 3 months for obvious improvements, then changes have been more gradual..