***Thread for survivalists, preparedness, G.O.O.D., SHTF, TEOTWAWKI***

[Internexus]

Yeah I work from home selling advertising media.

We still go to town for groceries and to stock up on things that give variety to what the garden provides. I mean eating seasonally can get a little boring. But if we were forced to live off the garden we could make it for 6 months.

We're just getting established out here... We used to live on the edge of the city on 3/4 of an acre. Then the city went through a massive expansion and we were looking to get out... Found this 10 acre ponderosa.

I have an expansion plan for the garden/fields and orchard out here... It will take 3 years total to implement it and the new fruit trees and berry bushes and perennial roots I've added won't be in full production until 2014.

Once they are, we'll be able to live off the land, the forest and the water year round. (Should we need to.)

Sounds like it's going to be a fantastic setup as long as you can keep up on all the work you'll be doing, but then again that's what having kids is for right? :P

[RyouBakua]

things to do:


energy production
(wind/solar/hydro if near a stream)

water catchment
(more for running toilets/washing machine)

fresh water storage

diesel generator-to-house hookup

fuel storage

[meatjesus]

fark I had to sub this thread. So many commonalities. I have a baby girl due in ~3 months.


A buddy of mine sent me a link to this:


Super cheap generator.



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...635-_-08012012

A friend of mine has a similar sized one, but its a Honda. Not that I am a brand whore, but I wouldn't trust this thing for longer than a year. I know you guys are all about the big boy generators, but honda makes a decent sized gas model that puts out some nice power. Speaking of output. How do the ratings work? For example if I wanted to run a microwave and chill my fridge how much power do I need?

[Farley1324]

Honda makes good stuff.

Find out how many watts the appliance in question draws.

Look at the rating for the generator. (continous)

I think?

[RyouBakua]

fark I had to sub this thread. So many commonalities. I have a baby girl due in ~3 months.

A buddy of mine sent me a link to this:

Super cheap generator.



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...635-_-08012012

A friend of mine has a similar sized one, but its a Honda. Not that I am a brand whore, but I wouldn't trust this thing for longer than a year. I know you guys are all about the big boy generators, but honda makes a decent sized gas model that puts out some nice power. Speaking of output. How do the ratings work? For example if I wanted to run a microwave and chill my fridge how much power do I need?

congrats about the baby

that one is rated for 1600 watts

most appliances have a starting watts/running watts

generally,
fridges 2200/700
microwave 800/625

[meatjesus]

My pops has a 2nd home up in the sticks, Pacific NW. 2nd home, as in a cabin

His place has a backup generator, well, 500gal propane tank, and a septic system. At first I thought it was bothersome running off that, but now I can respect the freedom that they give. Bit jelly of my old man at times.


edit: ^ thanks for explaining the generator. So the bigger the better theory should work well for running part or parts of a modern home.

[RyouBakua]

edit: ^ thanks for explaining the generator. So the bigger the better theory should work well for running part or parts of a modern home.

when it comes to a household the difference between starting and running watts can be in the 1000s and i dont have any experience there

so im not quite sure about a "break" in power
(the time between the power outage and the generator start-up)

[tenaciousj]

fark I had to sub this thread. So many commonalities. I have a baby girl due in ~3 months.


A buddy of mine sent me a link to this:


Super cheap generator.



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...635-_-08012012

A friend of mine has a similar sized one, but its a Honda. Not that I am a brand whore, but I wouldn't trust this thing for longer than a year. I know you guys are all about the big boy generators, but honda makes a decent sized gas model that puts out some nice power. Speaking of output. How do the ratings work? For example if I wanted to run a microwave and chill my fridge how much power do I need?

Thats expensive for a small generator unless you need something that is small this one is way more powerful for the same price.

http://www.amazon.com/DuroStar-DS400.../dp/B004918MO2

[Nainoa]

Sounds like it's going to be a fantastic setup as long as you can keep up on all the work you'll be doing, but then again that's what having kids is for right? :P

Oh yeah... Right now my wife has 1 basic duty... Clean the kitchen and load the dishwasher and she can barely wrap her hands around that!

Doing the rest of the house work, yard work, gardening, while building two (Admittedly over elaborate) deer stands and cutting fire wood is grinding me down pretty serious.

I don't know what the hell I'm going to do next spring when we'll have a small baby to take care of and I'll be tending the green house, expanding the orchard, expanding the garden and putting up a fence for the new half acre plot... While running a rain barrel system to water the orchard expansion.

I'm going to have to rely heavily on my Bro's to help me out... No other way I can do it.

[SigmundFreud]

One topic I haven't seen brought up, or that I missed, is the chance of an invading country. This is extremely unlikely but if SHTF other countries might try to take advantage of the chaos. Are there any Canadian repelling plants?

Congrats on the kid Nainoa.

[Farley1324]

One topic I haven't seen brought up, or that I missed, is the chance of an invading country. This is extremely unlikely but if SHTF other countries might try to take advantage of the chaos. Are there any Canadian repelling plants?

Congrats on the kid Nainoa.

What?

[RyouBakua]

got about 100 gal of fuel now

still have to work on more water

[Nainoa]

One topic I haven't seen brought up, or that I missed, is the chance of an invading country. This is extremely unlikely but if SHTF other countries might try to take advantage of the chaos. Are there any Canadian repelling plants?

Congrats on the kid Nainoa.

Canada is too dependent on the US for them to ever even consider taking us as an enemy. Their success is a direct trickle down of ours. (Hell they even share power grids with us at certain places in the east.) If they got too uppity, we'd just turn off all the lights in Toronto.


If you're looking for a STFH situation where another nation is aggressive towards us, the most likely is a Nucelar EMP...

Right now places like Iran and North Korea don't have effective targeting systems for their rockets and that's what gets them in the way of being able to launch a nuke over at a US city.

But in time it's entirely likely that they'll develop a rocket that can get into low orbit without any balistic targeting.

They'd just need enough telemetry to wait until the rocket was about 60 miles above us and then detonate.

The Blast would be nothing more than a flash of light in the sky... But the way an ElectroMagnetic Pulse propogates it could wipe out power for half the country for YEARS, frying ciruits and melting down power grid.

It would cripple us.


The other option would be a mass "Dirty Bomb" attack.

You couldn't cripple the US with just one dirty bomb in NYC... But it would hinder our economy for a week or a month as we had to do all the logistics... And then tax our economy on care and clean up.

But if you got dirty bombs in say a dozen major US cities, the crisis management and care would cripple us.

BUT smuggling that much radioactive material into the country would be TOUGH.


In general though you don't see empires like ours fall to the over power effect of outside forces.

The only reason my ancestors (The Visigoths) were able to sack Rome was because Rome was already rotting from the inside due to a complacent generation that was in power.


Hence why I saw "The Baby Boomer generation is the worst thing to happen to America since the Civil War."

[Nainoa]

got about 100 gal of fuel now

still have to work on more water

How are you stablizing the hundred gallons of fuel?

[Farley1324]

I'm no expert on the subject, but I see the "EMP knocking out half the country" secenario, ala One Second After, as being pretty exaggerated and over played in survival/preparedness circles. It seems to me that not only is the tech for somebody like N. Korea or Iran to pull that off a LONG ways above their capability, but the magnitude of the effect seems to be heavily exaggerated.

[Nainoa]

I'm no expert on the subject, but I see the "EMP knocking out half the country" secenario, ala One Second After, as being pretty exaggerated and over played in survival/preparedness circles. It seems to me that not only is the tech for somebody like N. Korea or Iran to pull that off a LONG ways above their capability, but the magnitude of the effect seems to be heavily exaggerated.

Actually a Properly placed EMP in the upper atmosphere could in theory wipe out all electronics in our country.

It's THE #1 REASON why during the cold war we made a pact with the Russians that said both sides would only test nukes underground after the Starfish Prime incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

And that was with 1962 technology!

[RyouBakua]

How are you stablizing the hundred gallons of fuel?

im not. im actively gassing and refilling

[jafomofo]

Just saw those generator comments above and those won't work for running a modern home. You want to be able to backfill your house off of the dryer outlet or a dedicated outlet. You need a 240v/30amp circuit to do that. This is the cheapest one I have been able to find. It fluctuates in price and in the past year has been as low as 330 shipped. I suspect that in the case of a generator you get what you pay for but this is better than nothing. Its also worth noting that this most likely won't power your whole house, you will have to pick and choose what to turn on at the fuse box.
http://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP4400...=I4UFG06J59MIW

[Farley1324]

Actually a Properly placed EMP in the upper atmosphere could in theory wipe out all electronics in our country.

It's THE #1 REASON why during the cold war we made a pact with the Russians that said both sides would only test nukes underground after the Starfish Prime incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

And that was with 1962 technology!

Yeah, but this is the damage they listed:

"...knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link."


Color me not-extremely impressed.

[RyouBakua]

You want to be able to backfill your house off of the dryer outlet or a dedicated outlet

you dont want to backfill off the dryer outlet

during a blackout, the electric company will be on the job and dont need to be messing with a live wire



dedicated outlets with a breaker is the only way to go

[meatjesus]

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...how-much-power

pretty good info on the left side menu. Nothing runs like a deere...err Honda.

[jafomofo]

you dont want to backfill off the dryer outlet

during a blackout, the electric company will be on the job and dont need to be messing with a live wire



dedicated outlets with a breaker is the only way to go

Live wire? turn off main, plug in generator, enjoy dvds. Someone bargain shopping for generators isn't going to drop the coin to set up a proper exterior feed receptacle, trasnfer switch, etc...

There are also some nifty little plates that you can put on your fusebox for this purpose to preclude you or someone else from ****ing up and sending power out but I'll have to look up the link.

[Nainoa]

Yeah, but this is the damage they listed:

"...knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link."


Color me not-extremely impressed.

Yeah in 1962 those were the high end technology in and around the world.

If that EMP can wipe out a streetlight, what do you think it will do to a modern day computer.

The reality is that we live in a world where everyone is as dependent on the smooth flow of technology in the system as a baby is dependent on it's mother's milk.

If you fry everything but the biggest shielded server farms and electrical hubs how sour do you think the milk will get?

That's the basic question...


I can tell you this... I'm "Unplugged" 51% of the time (Or more)... When I take people with me into the "Real World" for a couple of days at a time... They melt down like little children after about 24 hours without technology to stroke their hair and tell them what a special little boy or girl they are.

Two or three people melting down for a day or two until they finally give themselves over to the experience isn't a big deal, especially because I'm always there to keep them from going completely off the rails. But 20 or 30 million people living unplugged for 2-3 months with no one to help them but an over taxed and apathetic government will realign an entire society QUICK!


Of course I don't believe this ^^^ is the case for the most likely SHTF experience. I've believed for a long time that the growing water crisis and it's relationship to our agricultural base have put us on a path towards the first great american famine. Just look at what's happening in the Great Plains right now!

[jafomofo]

I can tell you this... I'm "Unplugged" 51% of the time (Or more)... When I take people with me into the "Real World" for a couple of days at a time... They melt down like little children after about 24 hours without technology to stroke their hair and tell them what a special little boy or girl they are.

I can almost picture this, sounds nice. Would nuzzle in.

Two or three people melting down for a day or two until they finally give themselves over to the experience isn't a big deal, especially because I'm always there to keep them from going completely off the rails. But 20 or 30 million people living unplugged for 2-3 months with no one to help them but an over taxed and apathetic government will realign an entire society QUICK!

why 20-30 million? Concerning the water issue I think there are some legitimate concerns in/around new york about them polluting the water way that provides them most of their drinking water. insomniac probably know more living so close but i was listening to the regular news, not even npr, and they were saying it was at risk and there are what 20 million people in the greater new york area?

[Nainoa]

I can almost picture this, sounds nice. Would nuzzle in.



why 20-30 million? Concerning the water issue I think there are some legitimate concerns in/around new york about them polluting the water way that provides them most of their drinking water. insomniac probably know more living so close but i was listening to the regular news, not even npr, and they were saying it was at risk and there are what 20 million people in the greater new york area?

Well the "Water Crisis" that's building in this country (And indeed all of western culture) is sort of a two headed beast.

One head is the Municipal water system as it relates to pollution and also infrastructure.

To be honest with you I've busted my ass in my life to be able to NEVER be dependent on a Municipal source. Municipal water is the bane of the 21st century... And we have something like 10 years to convert every major american city over to the same kind of high end reclimation technology that Singapore is using right now, or we're going to see massive breakdowns and contamination events.


The other part of the water crisis that people ignore is the agricultural impact. Right now "Most" americans get the food on their plate from an average of 1400 miles away. We centralized agriculture at the end of the 20th century into places that were short term good for agriculture to be.

BUT now the water sources and infrastructure for 3 of the 4 major agricultural zones are operating beyond max capacity.

We have been pulling more water out of the Aquifers under the great plains (Grain Belt) for over a decade than the rain can replace.

There are giant chunks of Nebraska and Iowa that can no longer draw irrigation out because the Wave shape of the aquifer left them on a dry peak... So they have to rely on the rain... Which works for a lot of fields... Right up until you get a massive drought.


Between this and the water crisis building up in the Emerald and central valley(s) of California we are seeing the first warning sights of a massive agricultural failure in this country. This drought that's crippling Iowa, Nebraska and Southern Illinois because they don't have the aquifers to handle their irrigation infrastructure is the first warning bell that tells us the clock has become ticking on the countdown to the first great american famine.

[HairyScandinavian]

Two or three people melting down for a day or two until they finally give themselves over to the experience isn't a big deal, especially because I'm always there to keep them from going completely off the rails. But 20 or 30 million people living unplugged for 2-3 months with no one to help them but an over taxed and apathetic government will realign an entire society QUICK!

Can you imagine the wrath of all the attention whoring females who desperately want to post "OMG EMP just knocked out all electronics!" as their ******** status? I've seen them get fidgety and irritated with a low battery on their smart phone, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

[Nainoa]

Can you imagine the wrath of all the attention whoring females who desperately want to post "OMG EMP just knocked out all electronics!" as their ******** status? I've seen them get fidgety and irritated with a low battery on their smart phone, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

I've learned that people are more addicted to the convenience and distractions offered by technology than they realize.

A person who is used to being "Plugged in" all the time gets "Unplugged" for a couple of days and their mood, attitude and behavior are EXACTLY like someone who tries to quit smoking "Cold Turkey."


I'm writing that piece for that "Unplugged" eco tourism company and in doing research interview and talking to people who have based their lifestyle on the "Assumed fact" that technology will always be there to take care of them...

You'd be amazed the look you get from these people when you say "So how would you feel if you went on a vacation where you just checked your phone, laptop and all other electronics at the front desk and you just put on your hiking boots and spent a week camping and hiking in nature."


Try it once... Technology dependent People can't even CONSIDER a week like that... They will come back at you after the Bert stare and say "That's unreasonable, I should at least be able to bring my phone with! You can't live that way."


Well we used to... Hell when I was a kid all I had for the first 13 years was a rotary phone... I almost never used it because I was outside playing in the woods!

[RyouBakua]

whats more is that "when" that particular infrastructure goes down

lots of things will go down not to mention millions of servers and everyday automation

everything from automatic doors to computer controlled valves in dams

(luckily these dams have their own backups but just how long will those run)




next page topic: faraday cages

preppers prepare!

[Nainoa]

whats more is that "when" that particular infrastructure goes down

lots of things will go down not to mention millions of servers and everyday automation

everything from automatic doors to computer controlled valves in dams

(luckily these dams have their own backups but just how long will those run)




next page topic: faraday cages

preppers prepare!

Yeah my well pump and fuel oil (back up) furnace are shielded... As is the plenum (sp?)circuitry of my electric primary head... I just need to get a generator big enough to handle these.

[meatjesus]

Looks pretty decent. Anyone try this stuff?


Whether you're a hunter or camper looking to fill your pack for weekend meals, or the "prepper" wanting to help you & your family survive an urban emergency or natural disaster, having a stash like this one from Wise makes sense.

Here is the product description from Wise regarding the "Grab & Go 60 Serving Emergency Entree Only Bucket":
"Wise Company Grab and Go Food Kits are perfect for any unplanned emergency. Our ready-made meals are packed in airtight, nitrogen-packed Mylar pouches, and then encased in easy to carry, durable plastic containers. Our unique packaging process removes the majority of the residual oxygen through a nitrogen flushing practice. Wise Company Grab and Go Food Kits carry a shelf life of up to 25 years, with absolutely no rotation needed.

2 Servings per day (entrees only) for 1 adult for 1 month or 4 adults for 1 week

Includes:

--8 Savory Stroganoff
--8 Cheesy Macaroni
--8 Pasta Alfredo
--4 Cheesy Lasagna
--8 Creamy Ala King and Rice
--8 Tomato Basil Soup
--8 Creamy Pasta and Veg Rotini
--8 Teriyaki and Rice"

Without using up too much bandwidth, here are some pics of some select entrees:
Cheesy Lasagna


Pasta Alfredo


Savory Stroganoff


These buckets ship directly from their distributor. Price is $109.00 SHIPPED