Supercharger / Turbocharger. Which do you prefer? Which sounds better, etc

[MiscNasty]

Please enlighten me on how a turbo can spin the wrong away.
All the heat and gasses that spin the exhaust wheel we all going one way. It doesn't magically just reverse.
Maybe you're talking about compressor stalling?









I want to believe. I don't doubt your car is fast and I'm jelly as fk but to really double your hp running only 9psi. Was that a race gas tune maybe? Did you do a before/after dyno run on the same dyno? Etc

Got to be some other stuff done???

With 100% Efficiency you would need 14.7psi to double NA hp.

Dubious.

I know his car, its beastly as hell. And yes... it makes the stated power.

Here ya go.
Blue pull is 100% stock, 314hp
Red pull is AR Design Catless Xpipe w/ OEM rear section + drop in K&N filter, 344hp
Green pull is AR Design Catless Xpipe w/ OEM rear section with ESS/AR 700 supercharger (Vortech V3 @ 9psi) 613hp

[BigB02z28]

30rwhp per psi is some serious gains. Off a supercharger at that.

[srsnotsureif]

30rwhp per psi is some serious gains. Off a supercharger at that.

I get about 20 HP per psi out of mine... Went from 150HP stock, got 350HP at 10 psi... I estimate about 600~ at 20 psi now.

[MiscNasty]

30rwhp per psi is some serious gains. Off a supercharger at that.

The S65 engine is very efficient, and keep in mind i'm at 12:1 still =D

[BigB02z28]

The S65 engine is very efficient, and keep in mind i'm at 12:1 still =D

How much total timing? Are you using meth injection?

[afrobrah]

The S65 engine is very efficient, and keep in mind i'm at 12:1 still =D

Yeah I guess. Us factory boosted guys are only around 8.5-9:1.
And plus being an m3 it will already have some large duration cams in there and a nice flowing head since it factory makes its peak power at like 8k rpm. Jelly.

How much that kit set you back?

[m0nst3rb1c3ps]

supercharger due to instant power but yes i know turbos have that now too lel

[kickblake]

I know his car, its beastly as hell. And yes... it makes the stated power.

But on just 9 psi? That's entirely doubtful. Generally it takes 14.7psi (1 atmosphere) to double power. And he's talking MORE than double power on only 75% of that boost.

[kickblake]

Here ya go.
Blue pull is 100% stock, 314hp
Red pull is AR Design Catless Xpipe w/ OEM rear section + drop in K&N filter, 344hp
Green pull is AR Design Catless Xpipe w/ OEM rear section with ESS/AR 700 supercharger (Vortech V3 @ 9psi) 613hp

I'm sorry, you either have more motor work, race gas and insane timing, or your dyno operator is a fuarking liar. The physics don't support doubling RWHP at anything less than 14.7psi AND that's a theoretical doubling that's then impacted by driveline losses.

[MiscNasty]

How much total timing? Are you using meth injection?

Timing is never constant. The DME (ECU) in these cars is self adaptive and regulates cam timing, ignition timing and fuel depending on IAT's and sensed octane.
Negative on the meth. I just ran blend of 91 and 100. Roughly 98 iirc on the pull.

Yeah I guess. Us factory boosted guys are only around 8.5-9:1.
And plus being an m3 it will already have some large duration cams in there and a nice flowing head since it factory makes its peak power at like 8k rpm. Jelly.

How much that kit set you back?

Ehh, this kit was a hair over 15k

I'm sorry, you either have more motor work, race gas and insane timing, or your dyno operator is a fuarking liar. The physics don't support doubling RWHP at anything less than 14.7psi AND that's a theoretical doubling that's then impacted by driveline losses.

Nope, no motor work. Full exhaust, blower and some higher octane fuel. The 613 pull was done when I had 1 blend in take (roughly 98 octane) the 344 run was a 95ish blend as well, and the base run was 91 octane.

[kickblake]

Timing is never constant. The DME (ECU) in these cars is self adaptive and regulates cam timing, ignition timing and fuel depending on IAT's and sensed octane.
Negative on the meth. I just ran blend of 91 and 100. Roughly 98 iirc on the pull.



Ehh, this kit was a hair over 15k



Nope, no motor work. Full exhaust, blower and some higher octane fuel. The 613 pull was done when I had 1 blend in take (roughly 98 octane) the 344 run was a 95ish blend as well, and the base run was 91 octane.

98 octane = race gas. I've lived in Denver. Hell I had a procharged car in Denver. The pumps are 91.

[MiscNasty]

98 octane = race gas. I've lived in Denver. Hell I had a procharged car in Denver. The pumps are 91.

98 isn't race fuel.... Its high octane pump unleaded.....I mix 91 with 100 Unleaded all the time up here. C16/Q16/E98 etc. is race fuel.

[Everknown]

The rage here right now is the HKS Super Sequential.
My bov is screwed (not HKS) When just first turbo spinning it flutters hard when releasing, then when both are on it releases properly (pshhh).
Probably need to change the spring even though I've never changed it before, as in didn't know they could get screwed.

just put a HKS super squential on my build, when i went to nz everyone had them, but here no one has them lol

[kickblake]

98 isn't race fuel.... Its high octane pump unleaded.....I mix 91 with 100 Unleaded all the time up here. C16/Q16/E98 etc. is race fuel.

BRB driving to the gas station. Max 91

BRB next station max 91

BRB next station max 91

ad nauseum.

There's probably two pumps in the entire denver metro not located on the grounds of an airport or race track that serve up 100 unleaded.

[titan1234]

i love them both, i have an 8-71 blower with a 502 b.b in my 55 chevy and nothing beats that in your face and you better think twice look...lol
but i would go turbos over a vortec or paxton type supercharger...

[KRANE]

98 octane = race gas. I've lived in Denver. Hell I had a procharged car in Denver. The pumps are 91.

You're at altitude so you need a much leaner mixture than we folks at sea level. Nevertheless, 93 (Exxon) is about as high as you can get here at the fuel pump.

[Kaptn Krunch]

BRB driving to the gas station. Max 91

BRB next station max 91

BRB next station max 91

ad nauseum.

There's probably two pumps in the entire denver metro not located on the grounds of an airport or race track that serve up 100 unleaded.

In Denver, the way to go is E85. Lots of stations carry it.

Living at ~5280 feet above sea level, I'd take a turbo erry day. Altitude kills way too much power. There's still power loss even with a turbo, but not as much.

4g63 + Evo3 16G + 3" exhaust = lots of fun on a daily driver.

[kickblake]

In Denver, the way to go is E85. Lots of stations carry it.

It's down here too, but it requires 30% more fuel on the same vehicle.

BRB fuel system upgrades. Not to mention you're pretty well locked to a metro area with the car at that point. Unless you have a dyno wizard that can write you a pump gas emergency tune.

[Kaptn Krunch]

It's down here too, but it requires 30% more fuel on the same vehicle.

BRB fuel system upgrades. Not to mention you're pretty well locked to a metro area with the car at that point. Unless you have a dyno wizard that can write you a pump gas emergency tune.

Doesn't matter how much more fuel it takes. It makes huge power #s and is cheap to run. Not trying to win any MPG battles.

Depending on which EMS you use, it's very easy to change tunes on the fly. I can change my tune in about 30 seconds. On my old car, I had 1600cc injectors and dual fuel pumps, so it didn't matter what fuel I used.

[Diesel0022]

Please enlighten me on how a turbo can spin the wrong away.
All the heat and gasses that spin the exhaust wheel we all going one way. It doesn't magically just reverse.
Maybe you're talking about compressor stalling?

What happens is your tranny shifts at WOT, the sudden reduction in engine RPM's also lower the drive pressure of the turbo causing the intake side pressure to overcome the exhaust drive pressure and the turbo spins backwards for a moment. It's more common on diesels and higher displacement engines.

Stall happens when you push it outside the performance curve(like compressor stalling an airplane), or when an idiot puts too large of a turbo in for his application....or when the wastegate opens up too much

[flairon]

98 octane = race gas. I've lived in Denver. Hell I had a procharged car in Denver. The pumps are 91.

98 is not race gas. Thats just a good high octane.

Racing gas around here is 110 octane. There is no mistaking that exhaust smell of someone running that gas

[kickblake]

98 is not race gas. Thats just a good high octane.

Racing gas around here is 110 octane. There is no mistaking that exhaust smell of someone running that gas

Please tell me what street pumps flow 98 octane fuel. In Houston, the only ones that do are located on the grounds of race tracks.

In Oklahoma City there was ONE speciality pump in all of the city that had 100, and every friday there was a line on the way to the race track.


In Denver..................if there was one, I never knew it existed, and I would have liked to have considering I was driving a procharged mustang when it wasn't snowing.

[kickblake]

Doesn't matter how much more fuel it takes. It makes huge power #s and is cheap to run. Not trying to win any MPG battles.

Depending on which EMS you use, it's very easy to change tunes on the fly. I can change my tune in about 30 seconds. On my old car, I had 1600cc injectors and dual fuel pumps, so it didn't matter what fuel I used.

Maybe you're not trying to win any MPG battles, but I like my street cars to be street cars. If I can't go on a 3 hour drive for fear of not being able to find the appropriate fuel, it ceases to be a street car. Nomsayin? I drove my blown mustang from Denver to Houston through bumfuark kansas on the reg. Couldn't have done that with an E85 tune. The only station on I-70 that had it was outside a single tank range.

[Kaptn Krunch]

Maybe you're not trying to win any MPG battles, but I like my street cars to be street cars. If I can't go on a 3 hour drive for fear of not being able to find the appropriate fuel, it ceases to be a street car. Nomsayin? I drove my blown mustang from Denver to Houston through bumfuark kansas on the reg. Couldn't have done that with an E85 tune. The only station on I-70 that had it was outside a single tank range.

I guess I'm spoiled with DSMlink. Literally takes more time to load up the tuning program than it takes to change the the global fuel setting when switching from E85 to Premium Unleaded.

Why you no have switchable maps? 1 for E85. 1 for Premium.

Speaking of E85, I used to run my old 90s Dodge Ram on E85 to pass emissions. Straight Unleaded, it would fail. But with 1/2 tank E85 & 1/2 tank Unleaded, it'd always pass.

[Diesel0022]

Please tell me what street pumps flow 98 octane fuel. In Houston, the only ones that do are located on the grounds of race tracks.

In Oklahoma City there was ONE speciality pump in all of the city that had 100, and every friday there was a line on the way to the race track.


In Denver..................if there was one, I never knew it existed, and I would have liked to have considering I was driving a procharged mustang when it wasn't snowing.

Sunoco's around here have it

And a lot of the private owned gas stations sell Cam2 here

Ledgewood, Pompton, Wantage, East brunswick, Newton, Hardyston

Down in FL it is more predominant, tampa area has 98+ octane at every corner


Would I count it as street fuel? Eh, not really. Maybe a happy medium between street and race fuel

Powermist is 20 min from my house, thats what everyone uses around here at the strips (109 octane)

[d.nguyen]

e85 master race user here :P

BTW with the technology these days you can run flex fuel sensors and run either gas, or a mixture of both.

Also having 2 tunes is not a hassle switching from one gas to another in a "street" car.

[kickblake]

BTW with the technology these days you can run flex fuel sensors and run either gas, or a mixture of both.

If the ECU supports it.

[d.nguyen]

assuming full standalone I suppose i should have posted.

Everyone I know that is making decent power is on AEM or haltech for the most part and being in MN we have E85 everywhere now. It's a no brainer for us to use it.

[kickblake]

That's a pretty big assumption. Lots of guys in Houston making 700-900rwhp with stock electronics.

[d.nguyen]

what kinda cars?