Trainer Appearance

[martymcfly]

bumping up a great thread.

[Jamps]

Speaking of Lyle, I'm not so sure what his physique looks like, but either way I wouldn't mind paying the guy for some training or diet advice.

Doesn't Jay Cutler hire Chris Aceto, a guy who is about 100 lb. lighter than he is (if not more)? Same with Chris Cormier hiring Charles Glass.

yes, yes he does....or at least did in the beginning. At first these guys would hire them but that's mainly due to referrals and making a good name for themselves. After a while most pro's tend to ditch their "trainers" for a new or go solo if they didn't initially start out w/ them.

[Jamps]

Alwyn Cosgrove is a quack who can't even come up with his original ideas. He completely plagiarized Lyle McDonald's book, almost word for word.

What a tool. Cosgrove sucks.

....this is actually really funny to me since Cosgrove recently mentioned in an article that if he saw someone w/ a good idea succeeding then who copy it to the T =/

[Jamps]

Why don't I like it? Because it violates the law of specificity. That's why I don't like cross training in general. I'm trying to make people good at something and you simply can't do achieve that when you're simultaneously training multiple opposing qualities, like strength and endurance. Cross training is awful because it reinforces all the stupid misconceptions that normal people have about training, such as their pathetic whining about "not wanting to get too big", to name one example. If someone tells me they are deadset on developing their endurance and strength at the same time then I know they aren't going to go anywhere - they will look and perform exactly the same in half a year's time. Trainers really ought to know better than to endorse programs like this. Cross training, by it's very nature, is designed for beginners and it ensures that people will stay mediocre at whatever they do.

"If you try to do everything, you get nothing" -Charles Poliquin's on CrossFit



There you go. People who are dedicated to this hobby know what the hell they are doing.

Dave tate wrote a really good article stating just that...specialize in everything and suck at everything. Most people who i come into contact w/ have a type of "Workout mentality" rather than a serious training one, so something like gay-fit...i mean cross-fit or cross training would fit the bill as long as they sweat, "feel the burn", and have sore abs/glutes (for women) the following day

[Jamps]

Why don't I like it? Because it violates the law of specificity. That's why I don't like cross training in general. I'm trying to make people good at something and you simply can't do achieve that when you're simultaneously training multiple opposing qualities, like strength and endurance. Cross training is awful because it reinforces all the stupid misconceptions that normal people have about training, such as their pathetic whining about "not wanting to get too big", to name one example. If someone tells me they are deadset on developing their endurance and strength at the same time then I know they aren't going to go anywhere - they will look and perform exactly the same in half a year's time. Trainers really ought to know better than to endorse programs like this. Cross training, by it's very nature, is designed for beginners and it ensures that people will stay mediocre at whatever they do.

"If you try to do everything, you get nothing" -Charles Poliquin's on CrossFit



There you go. People who are dedicated to this hobby know what the hell they are doing.

Dave tate wrote a really good article stating just that...specialize in everything and suck at everything.

On a side note, most people who i come into contact w/ have a type of "Workout mentality" rather than a serious training one, so something like gay-fit...i mean cross-fit or cross training would fit the bill as long as they sweat, "feel the burn", and have sore abs/glutes (for women) the following day

btw, am i the only one that notices that whenever cosgrove is praised so is boyle, chad, thib, and other random tnation guys? Those guys over there are doing a great job, and u made a great point earlier about them praising each other.

[dasixthsun]

Yes and no. You need to look healthy though. Some people may be turned off or intimidated by someone with a "bodybuilder" look. Also, clients may look for differen't trainers that look like what they want to look like. Some clients, don't care. It really depends on the person and what they perceive.

this^

I currently work at a "family friendly" fitness center and i am the biggest trainer there and the majority of clientele is 40 and above and people are intimidated by my size. I was working out one day and another trainer overheard a couple say who is the big black guy like in an intimidated way. And not to help that all the salespeople and trainers are allway throwing the "you dont want to be a musclehead" phrase around. I getting tired of hearing that word also.

[NeverGymLess]

I'm 180 bs, 5 foot 9, can bench 280ish, run a few miles at a time but perfer HIIT, bf maybe 12-15% etc. Are there people in "better shape" than me? Sure. However, I am certainly not "out of shape" by any means. Sorry.

I know an out of shape trainer doesn't make any sense. I wasn't promoting trainers being out of shape and saying that wouldn't affect their bottom line. I was saying a huge juice monkey isn't what people want NOW. PT started in the 70s/80s with BBers just giving out advice at the gym. It's evolved to a science. And, from what I've seen, most BB trainers certainly don't understand the science behind it. They have fat women do lateral raises or a pec dec for 4 sets of 6 because that's what they do.

I've worked at, or worked OUT at 5-6 gyms in the past 10 years. I've yet to see the token BB'er trainer be worth anything.

do you have any before or after pics ? For 10 years in the gym, looks like you wasted a lot of time ( judging from avi pic ) ..

[Retardo-pex]

I know a guy who looks like he has never touched a weight in his life yet he sells sessions like a madman. I have always been under the impression that looking the part helps but results speak louder. You help that lady drop a few dress sizes quick all her friends will come looking for you.

[Retardo-pex]

The day I'm out classed by ANY person that's "out of shape" looking, I will go back to eating fast food 4x a week.

All I know is I train in the low rep ranges for my sport for the most part, take a 30 min abs class or a 60 min total body class at a gym its a different story. I got my ass kicked by people who looked worse then me and were not as strong. Doing the opposite of what you are used to blows.

[askthetrainer]

Judging on appearance, could the way a pt looks possibly get them more clients? I'm talking about someone who looks like a bodybuilder opposed to someone who just looks healthy.

This discussion has gotten way out of hand.

The original post in the thread was a simple question and YES, appearance can help a trainer get more clients.

Personal training is ALL about communication. Looking a certain way is the first way a personal trainer communicates to the prospective clients. This not only includes the physical shape you are in, but also it is very important to be dressed properly, and appear confident which is probably more important than anything.

Just an arbitrary example but say there is a checklist of 10 things needed to get a client and you need to get 80% to pass.

Looking like what each specific client would expect their trainer to look like would be 1 point. You would still need 7 more points for the client to sign up for training sessions.

Yes, some people will get the point for looking fit, built, huge, ripped, whatever and fail at the other 9 things just as there are some people who will not get the point for their appearance and pass the other 9 things.

I believe this example would hold true for 85-90% of the time in the normal gym situation.

Obvious bodybuilding gyms or athletic training centers would be different but to say that appearance is the most important thing to getting more clients is absurd.

[jkdman81]

Judging on appearance, could the way a pt looks possibly get them more clients? I'm talking about someone who looks like a bodybuilder opposed to someone who just looks healthy.

could be a catch 22
if you are too big like a bodybuilder you could intimidate some potential clients and if you too skinny they might think you don't know what you are doing
approac people and let them experience a session
worse that could do is keep you sharp by practicing
best is get you a need clients and noticed by on lookers

[Retardo-pex]

Being in shape isn't always the best indicator either. The mental image i get when i think of a coach, for example, is an older guy with a loud yell and a fat belly. A guy who knows his stuff.

Agreed. My powerlifting coach is a monster. Real nice guy, still young, but freakish in size. I probably wouldn't ask him his advice on training for a marathon but in terms of adding slabs of meat on your body and getting really strong yeah I'd take his word for it over 150 lb e-coaches.

[martymcfly]

This discussion has gotten way out of hand.

The original post in the thread was a simple question and YES, appearance can help a trainer get more clients.

Personal training is ALL about communication. Looking a certain way is the first way a personal trainer communicates to the prospective clients. This not only includes the physical shape you are in, but also it is very important to be dressed properly, and appear confident which is probably more important than anything.

Just an arbitrary example but say there is a checklist of 10 things needed to get a client and you need to get 80% to pass.

Looking like what each specific client would expect their trainer to look like would be 1 point. You would still need 7 more points for the client to sign up for training sessions.

Yes, some people will get the point for looking fit, built, huge, ripped, whatever and fail at the other 9 things just as there are some people who will not get the point for their appearance and pass the other 9 things.

I believe this example would hold true for 85-90% of the time in the normal gym situation.

Obvious bodybuilding gyms or athletic training centers would be different but to say that appearance is the most important thing to getting more clients is absurd.

but thats the quality of a good thread. making the point more vaild... opening the arugement. thats why i re=opened it.

[aptfit]

My wife works out in a class and told me about this trainer and how hard she kicks their butts.Once we ran into her and were introduced. In my mind i thought WTF? due to her body type. I then saw one of her classes and all i can say is WOW! Never judge a book by it's cover.I have seen many,many "fit" looking people that get blown out right of the water by non fit looking people.

Personally, i would like to work with a trainer that had more of a bodytype i was looking to achieve.

I didn't read through the whole thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched on but:

I don't understand why someone who understood proper nutrition, training, supplementation, etc, would choose not to live the lifestyle that they recommend to their clients.

There is a clear difference between being fit and being educated in living a healthy lifestyle but if I were a client, I'd want my trainer to practice what they preach.

[Jay Rawd]

Actually judging by Lyle McDonald's only pic of himself, he looks kinda skinny. Even moreso than I do. I still wouldn't think twice about hiring that guy to give me a split or something to do in the gym.

Same with that Alan Aragon fellow. Have I seen him at sub 5% bodyfat? No. But I bet he can get someone there.

[signature166]

Actually judging by Lyle McDonald's only pic of himself, he looks kinda skinny. Even moreso than I do. I still wouldn't think twice about hiring that guy to give me a split or something to do in the gym.

Same with that Alan Aragon fellow. Have I seen him at sub 5% bodyfat? No. But I bet he can get someone there.

Lyle is funny: "I've been training full time for speed skating for the past 4.5 years but, as such, there are not many competitions in teh sport (at least not at the level I'm at)."
http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showp...88&postcount=5
Even though he is known as the keto guy or the nutrition guy, he knows how to write excellent training programs for various goals.

In person Alan looks like he trains. He's not ripped like Jamie Hale, but you can tell he lifts. Alan is kinda busy with appointments with several pro athletes each day, counseling his online clients, writing the monthly research review, consulting for organizations, speaking at conferences, and being a dad.

[Mr.ILL]

The top trainer and only full time trainer at my gym is obese. Not just fat, obese. Hes a really good trainer even trained olympians and holds a world record bench press.

[Jamps]

Actually judging by Lyle McDonald's only pic of himself, he looks kinda skinny. Even moreso than I do. I still wouldn't think twice about hiring that guy to give me a split or something to do in the gym.

Same with that Alan Aragon fellow. Have I seen him at sub 5% bodyfat? No. But I bet he can get someone there.

but that's based off of u being pre-exposed to them and/or their work....if ur really that good u'll get referrals, but if ur look isn't up to par and haven't made much of urself yet then lol u lose

[EliteAthletics]

I knew a trainer who was a bodybuilder (around 265 at 6%BF) and he never had an empty spot on his training schedule, and this was at a YMCA. I think its is mainly about how passionated you are about your job, and word of mouth from your clients. You can and will succeed if you work hard, and truely love what you are doing. Just my .02

[MT1979]

yes, yes he does....or at least did in the beginning. At first these guys would hire them but that's mainly due to referrals and making a good name for themselves. After a while most pro's tend to ditch their "trainers" for a new or go solo if they didn't initially start out w/ them.

Most pro's do not ditch their trainers. Most pro's have one, if not two trainers, a nutritionist and someone who handles their "supplement" routine. Kai Greene switched trainers twice to get ready for the Arnold. Hany Rambod has been training Phil Heath, among others, for a long time.

[MT1979]

I have always been big on looking the part. Some of the other trainers have given me ****, saying I'm too big and scare people. I have never competed, and probably never will. If you think about it, a bodybuilding trainer is (usually) qualified to handle most people's goals. Fat loss and muscle gain. Most of the trainers who say otherwise are smaller than most women and have man tits. I've worked with tons of people who could talk the talk, but never worked out and had no clients. I'd rather be called a meathead than get made fun of by the gym members for looking like ****.

[Jay Rawd]

but that's based off of u being pre-exposed to them and/or their work....if ur really that good u'll get referrals, but if ur look isn't up to par and haven't made much of urself yet then lol u lose

That's why a n1gga like me will go the indie route, set up my website, get my PhD in Exercise Science, and become known through internet exposure by being an annoying jackass sort of like I am now.

BTW my schedule (at a commercial gym) is filled up all the time now. People were actually surprised how quickly I filled up compared to other trainers. Some trainers have been there much longer than i have and their schedules aren't all full as mine is.

[Jamps]

Most pro's do not ditch their trainers. Most pro's have one, if not two trainers, a nutritionist and someone who handles their "supplement" routine. Kai Greene switched trainers twice to get ready for the Arnold. Hany Rambod has been training Phil Heath, among others, for a long time.

there's only a few that have trainers that they have stuck with for a long time and like i said previously those who fit that category USUALLY had that trainer from the beginning either prior to the pro career or very early on in their pro career.

if you can list pro's w/ trainers who have been with them for at least 2 years who also competed in mr. olympia =/. U'll find that it is the minority, not the majority.

[trance__dreamer]

hmm...i'm gunna input my 2 cents.

i just got certified as a group fitness leader. (i.e.: boot camp, choreography dance patterns - i.e.: "aerobics" *shudders in disgust*, cardio intervals w/ weights, body ball classes, etc.)

when i 1st started my training course for group fitness back in november, i was @ my ideal/goal "weight"/composition. but that's also when i started keto, failed, & put some fat back on. & that's even while i was still exercising just as intensely & frequently as i do now, which just proves just how fkcin' CRUCIAL calories are.

i told myself that it was alright, though; especially since it was the winter; just as long as i lost it by the time i started teaching paid classes/non-practicum experience, which wouldn't be 'til the spring (but was actually pushed back 'til now due to a few schedule conflicts, etc).

needless to say, i have indeed NOT lost all of the weight yet. now, none of the interviewers i've met so far have told me that i need to look more fit & lean. (i.e.: cut the rest of this fat to see my muscles better, once more - i.e.: in my avatar). but it's kinda insinuated in some of the looks i've gotten. =P now, i'm not neeeeearly as grotesque as some aerobics instructors out there. not even close. good god. i don't have close to that amount to lose @ all. like...how anyone can take some aerobics instructors out there seriously, i have no idea. =S but that's just it. i don't want to look like a fool like they do. sure, they know anatomy, are great w/ choreography, etc. but if they don't practise what they preach (calorie control, etc) how the hell can they be a good role model to their participants? even still, though, the participants i've had so far have taken me seriously. but they'd probably worship me once i looked even better. (middle aged women adore aerobics instructors; even the grotesque-looking ones. ahaha. they treat anythiiiing they say like the freakin' bible. it's cute.)

i'm also going for my final evaluation for weight training next week. & it's the exact same situation: i want pple to take my advice seriously. i won't be personal training. (i'll be taking that couse maybe in September @ the earliest.) w/ this weight training certification, i'll just be writing basic gym routines/lifestyle routines for 'em. (ex.: co-ordinating their 2 night a week hockey games & 9-5 desk job w/ a 2 day split.)

anyway. i hate teaching step. i feel like such a tool. land travelling is fine. i just can't stand the step. if it wasn't for trance, i wouldn't even bother w/ choreography patterns. i'd just stick to muscle/strength. so, i'm gunna try my best to stick to boot camp. regardless, though, it's a great "step"ping stone (pun ) into personal training: i could start training my participants. =O

[Al Shades]

All I was saying was taking a bodybuilder's routine and applying it to a housewife is stupid and flawed logic. And a steriod abusing bodybuilder negs me. Strange.

Applying a steroid abusing bodybuilder's workout routine is like taking the engine out of a winning NASCAR drivers car, putting into my Hummer, and expecting the same results.

People who are on stage and assisted by drugs probably showed dedication, but they enhanced their progress by, what...5% bf? 10% bf? What would Jay Cutler, Ronnie, etc look like without drugs? Probably a little different is my guess.

It boggles my mind how people don't understand this.

If Tiger Woods offered to give you tips on your golf game, would you gladly accept or would you say, "Sorry, your advice can't possibly help me because I'm not nearly at the same level as you"?

For some reason "normal" people will gladly take advice from pro's in every other sport besides bodybuilding.

When it comes to body recomposition, average people never want to listen to the people who actually do this on a regular basis.

It boggles the mind that you use the tired old cliche of associating bodybuilding with steroid use and passing off all bodybuilders' achievements on drugs.

Aren't you aware that there are 19 year old kids on this site who don't take anything but protein and have fantastic physiques because they applied the same principles to training and nutrition as 280 lb. professional BB'ers in the Olympia?

Whether you are trying to gain 5 lbs. of muscle or 50 doesn't matter. The point is that you are trying to gain muscle. The same thing is true of fat loss. You're talking about the exact same process with the same underlying principles, whether it's an experienced athlete doing it or a first time housewife. Think of two people getting on the same train. Can they have different destinations? You bet. But for at least a part of the journey, their paths will be the same.

Al, you don't understand the basic concepts of exercise. I've never put a client on a machine because I don't see the point unless it's rehab purposes. You're admitted that you don't see the point in teaching your clinet squats and lunges. So that goes to show your skill as a trainer. And, I guess according to you, there's no middle ground between a BOSU ball lunge (something else I've never done) and machines. How about...free weights

The "basic concepts of exercise" depend on what you are exercising for. Squats and lunges are athletic movements. I would teach them to an athlete or a normal person with athletic goals. The majority of people DON'T have athletic goals, they have aesthetic ones. Machine training is far better suited to the latter, that is why I use it more often. It does not take any more skill to teach free weights than to teach machines. I do things on machines that most people would never dream of doing.

[Al Shades]

could be a catch 22
if you are too big like a bodybuilder you could intimidate some potential clients and if you too skinny they might think you don't know what you

Considering 90% of the PT clients are fat housewives looking to lose weight without gaining any muscle, the skinnier you are, the better you'll be.

[Jay Rawd]

Considering 90% of the PT clients are fat housewives looking to lose weight without gaining any muscle, the skinnier you are, the better you'll be.

Exactly. There's a trainer at my gym (also a fitness manager) who is about a buck 40 at 6'1 and he gets tons of clients, even guys. He's been training (people, not himself) for 2 years at the gym I work at and everybody loves him. I don't see how he's so great but hey, it works for him.

[Al Shades]

Exactly. There's a trainer at my gym (also a fitness manager) who is about a buck 40 at 6'1 and he gets tons of clients, even guys. He's been training (people, not himself) for 2 years at the gym I work at and everybody loves him. I don't see how he's so great but hey, it works for him.

Yeah, "even guys". That's the sad part.

Because even most of the guys who hire trainers are simply interested in "slimming down" and "getting skinny" than actually putting on any muscle. Reading sites like this, where half the people are bulking and the other half are cutting, is extremely misleading. In the real world, everyone desperately wants to lose weight. The concept of a trainer helping someone gain weight is completely foreign.

[Jay Rawd]

Yeah, "even guys". That's the sad part.

Because even most of the guys who hire trainers are simply interested in "slimming down" and "getting skinny" than actually putting on any muscle. Reading sites like this, where half the people are bulking and the other half are cutting, is extremely misleading. In the real world, everyone desperately wants to lose weight. The concept of a trainer helping someone gain weight is completely foreign.

Tell me about it. That guy has them doing a ton of weirdo combination exercises like deadlift curls, jumping jack planks, row planks with feet on a BOSU ball, BOSU pushup planks, etc. The weird part is that his clients love him despite his TOTAL indifference to them. I swear that he texts on his Blackberry during the session and sometimes goes off and talks to other members while turning around once in a while and telling his client to "keep going" until their form gets totally horrible and they reach a point beyond failure all the while that jackass doesn't pay any attention.

I've also seen that guy work out. He actually needs a spotter on the Hammer Strength machines because he would rather load up a ton of weight that he can't handle but impresses people (which really doesn't because it's not alot of weight). I saw him doing close grip bench presses with 135 lb. but he was going like 1/4 of the way down. Then he did rope pushdowns and had to jerk the weight down with his torso because it was too much for his arms. Then later he had his girlfriend pulling his torso while he heaved a hammer strength machine preacher curl loaded with a 45 lb. plate and a 25 lb. plate. He didn't actually lift the weight with his biceps, rather with his girlfriend pulling him back and him lifting his arms off the pad. It's really sad to watch him train people, let alone train himself.

[Jamps]

Yeah, "even guys". That's the sad part.

Because even most of the guys who hire trainers are simply interested in "slimming down" and "getting skinny" than actually putting on any muscle. Reading sites like this, where half the people are bulking and the other half are cutting, is extremely misleading. In the real world, everyone desperately wants to lose weight. The concept of a trainer helping someone gain weight is completely foreign.

yeah i second this...about 95% of the people who ask me for advice/etc are mainly looking towards "getting skinny" while at the same time running from weights to prevent from getting "too huge" lol. Also the main goal within that slimming down thing is usually to "loose the stomach" and to get a six pack while neglecting damn near everything else on the table. Whats even more shocking to me is that it isn't even specific towards woman...a lot of guys that i know are jus trying to slim down for that pretty boy abs look...yeah they train their arms and chest but that's lower on their priority list as compared to abs...but when u look into the media/hollywood u can kind of come to sum understanding as to why this is.