*** Official Tennis Thread ****

[ajctennis]

At first I thought nadal would never pass up federer because at that time nadal could beat federer but lose to a lot of different players but federer only lost to nadal.

But now it's not up for debate. How can you be the goat when you aren't even the best of your generation. Nadal is dominating. And he has slaughtered fed over and over again. Yes, federer is past his prime but its so mental now. Rafa was in his head after beating him a couple times.

He's got a losing record against rafa and rafa has almost caught up to him in slams. This one is a no brainer.
The only argument you can make is saying that most of his slams came from clay.

I think it's unfair that Wimbledon slowed down their grass courts ( the year rafa beat fed).

It's hard to compare against other generations like laver. Laver would have the most slams by far if he hasn't been banned from playing the slams for like 3-4 years.

It would have been interesting to see how nadal would have fared against prime Agassi or prime Sampras though.

[Dominik]

Andy Roddick turned pro in 2000, a couple of years after Federer. Won his first and only slam in 2003.

It's pretty clear looking at his ranking (#1-3) and results when he was at his peak: 2003-2005.

He didn't magically improve and play his best tennis in 2009 when he'd almost dropped out of the Top 10 yet that was the only year in 4 attempts (2003, 2004, 2005 and 2009) where he almost beat Federer at Wimbledon, losing 16-14 in the 5th.

That's right, Federer had declined. Whether that was due to age, complacency from being at the top for so long, surface changes, or all of the above — he was in decline.

Nadal came into his prime at the right time to take advantage of that.

[BDPfit]

Andy Roddick turned pro in 2000, a couple of years after Federer. Won his first and only slam in 2003.

It's pretty clear looking at his ranking (#1-3) and results when he was at his peak: 2003-2005.

He didn't magically improve and play his best tennis in 2009 when he'd almost dropped out of the Top 10 yet that was the only year in 4 attempts (2003, 2004, 2005 and 2009) where he almost beat Federer at Wimbledon, losing 16-14 in the 5th.

That's right, Federer had declined. Whether that was due to age, complacency from being at the top for so long, surface changes, or all of the above — he was in decline.

Nadal came into his prime at the right time to take advantage of that.

He was 27 in 2009, and 26 in 2008. 26 is the absolutely peak of a tennis player's physical prime. Whether he declined mentally by the time Nadal beat him at Wimbledon in 2006 is really irrelevant. You can't make that an excuse for losing when you're in your physical prime.

Federer is the GOAT at this point because his list of accolades is longer than Nadal's currently. But Rafa isn't far off and if he wins the Aussie one more time he'll be the only player to win each slam event multiple times, not to mention if he extends his 10 year streak of one or more slam per year. THAT is domination in a very strong era

[BDPfit]

Anyway, all the GOAT talk is gonna continue to go in circles. Obviously people have differing opinions. Let's make this thread more versatile since it's our only tennis thread.


Anybody see someone play particularly well on grass so far this season that might make a surprise run at Wimby?

[Tuga88]

The GOAT talk is literally a never ending debate lol, but very interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

Can I just say how refreshing it is to have a thread where we can all have a discussion/differing opinions without anyone getting irate and insulting each other? Seems like this happens on every thread on misc, thankfully this one is different, my new favourite thread.


Murray struggling against Stepanek right now....I'm still unsure if Mauresmo was the right choice for him as a coach.

[Dominik]

He was 27 in 2009, and 26 in 2008. 26 is the absolutely peak of a tennis player's physical prime. Whether he declined mentally by the time Nadal beat him at Wimbledon in 2006 is really irrelevant. You can't make that an excuse for losing when you're in your physical prime.

Federer is the GOAT at this point because his list of accolades is longer than Nadal's currently. But Rafa isn't far off and if he wins the Aussie one more time he'll be the only player to win each slam event multiple times, not to mention if he extends his 10 year streak of one or more slam per year. THAT is domination in a very strong era

There was an excuse given for a drop in his performance in 2008 when he was turning 27: mono. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. After all many believe Nadal's excuse of serious knee problems in 2012 and that's why he took 7 months off despite never having surgery (he was still playing golf) only to return and only lose a handful of matches all season.

Federer turned 28 in 2009 which is when many players start to decline. Sampras retired at 32 in 2002. His decline was around 27-28 as well. Maybe to some degree it was mental — both of them sustained a very high level for 5 years straight.

I actually think Nadal is starting to decline and he just turned 28. You can't tell me Nadal at his peak would lose in a hardcourt Masters to Dolgopolov or in clay events to Ferrer and Almagro. He almost lost to Nishikori in Madrid. Wawrinka had never taken a set off him before and absolutely destroyed him for a set and half before calling for a trainer. Of course like Federer and Sampras he can still turn it on for a couple of matches when it matters and he did that against Murray and Djokovic last fortnight.

Nothing comes close to his 9 year domination of the French, however the truth is Nadal has never defended a title off clay. To me that is not a flattering statistic for a top player.

[Tuga88]

Murray's just lost in the 3rd round at Queen's 7-6, 6-2 to Stepanek. He had 8 set points in that first set tiebreak lol.

[VictorJustice]

I would be so pissed off if I was a woman in tennis right now, haha. Obviously Mauresmo can't break down Murray's game in this time frame, but she'll get blamed anyway and no one will ever hire a woman again. Would've been better if the test case was with a youngster who has nothing to lose.

[Dominik]

Stepanek can be dangerous but I feel sorry for Mauresmo.

Hiring her just before Wimbledon where he's the defending champ is setting her up to fail. He could have easily lost in R3 at the French to Kohlschreiber. 0 titles. No wins over the Top 10. He's been out of form all year. He should have waited until after Wimbledon.

[BDPfit]

I just don't understand how hiring a woman is a good idea at all. All of her input would have to be from observation, not from personal experience and knowing what any stroke changes actually feel like


Murray may not be 100% right now, but he's still pretty mentally soft. His loss to Nadal was abysmal. He looked like he didn't even want to be there

[anibani]

Nadal just lost the first set against Brown... we'll see how this turns out

[BDPfit]

Dunno when it originally aired but Tennis Channel is playing Raonic v Gojowczyk at Gerry Weber and Raonic looks awful. He may not have the footwork to keep up with the pace on grass courts

[Tuga88]

Murray hasn't won a single tournament since Wimbledon 2013.

I'm watching the Queen's coverage and John Lloyd has just said that Andy Murray is the best grass court player in the world right now lol.

Thoughts?

[VictorJustice]

I predicted Brown to win in straights, but you'll never know how he keeps up. He can go from GOAT to spraying eight UE in a row in the blink of an eye. Love that guy, hope he gets his big win, been following him for years.

[BDPfit]

Murray hasn't won a single tournament since Wimbledon 2013.

I'm watching the Queen's coverage and John Lloyd has just said that Andy Murray is the best grass court player in the world right now lol.

Thoughts?

If Murray is healthy physically and mentally I agree. His flatter shot is well suited for grass and he's so fast and athletic he can get to shots most wouldn't be able to

He's obviously not at that point right now though

[Dominik]

I predicted Brown to win in straights

Good call. 6-4 6-1. Anyone see the match?

I just don't understand how hiring a woman is a good idea at all. All of her input would have to be from observation, not from personal experience and knowing what any stroke changes actually feel like


Murray may not be 100% right now, but he's still pretty mentally soft. His loss to Nadal was abysmal. He looked like he didn't even want to be there

Agree about that loss to Nadal.

The most important thing Lendl brought to the table was that he'd been exactly where Murray was before, since he also lost in his first 4 slam finals. He was the perfect coach for him at that moment in time. 2 slams and Olympic Gold. Who knows, if that roof wasn't closed at Wimbledon he might have won 3.

The question now is who is the right coach for him post-back surgery with 0 titles or wins over top players? Darren Cahill (Hewitt, Agassi) would have been a solid choice but he ruled himself months ago out saying he couldn't commit to a full schedule.

He turns 28 next year. Not a whole lot of time left to cash in when you play a physical game and do a lot of running.

[VictorJustice]

Dreddy does it!

I can't think of anyone who deserves a big win like this more, hopefully he gets past the QF for the first time in his career now

[oe7Leo]

Wawrinka got past Querrey easily

He's one of the favorites I think to take Wimby. He should be fresh considering his early FO exit. Plus he matches up well vs Djoker

Your thoughts on the favorites at Wimbledon, mine are Wawrinka, Djoker, and a dark horse in Berdych to make the final.

Also, Dimitrov vs Dolgopolov in the QF at Queen's. Probably the two best young players @ the moment along with Raonic.

[VictorJustice]

Here you go, Dominik. It always makes me a bit sad to think about all the ridiculous shots Brown has hit on the Challenger tour with no cameras around, haha.

[BDPfit]

Wawrinka got past Querrey easily

He's one of the favorites I think to take Wimby. He should be fresh considering his early FO exit. Plus he matches up well vs Djoker

Your thoughts on the favorites at Wimbledon, mine are Wawrinka, Djoker, and a dark horse in Berdych to make the final.

Also, Dimitrov vs Dolgopolov in the QF at Queen's. Probably the two best young players @ the moment along with Raonic.

Querrey is trash lol. Ok maybe that's a little too harsh but if Wally didn't get past him easily I would've been very surprised.

Berdych is so frustrating to me. He should be competing for so many more titles but he's one of those guys that just goes out there and hits the ball. No game plan, no strategy, nothing. Blows my mind how some talented athletes can't grasp the mental aspect of the sport.

I'm not quite sold on Stan. He could be one of those weird guys that inexplicably never contend again. He's not that young either so we'll see. I think Novak is the best suited to win right now, given he moves past RG mentally

[nvrstopworking]

Wawrinka got past Querrey easily

He's one of the favorites I think to take Wimby. He should be fresh considering his early FO exit. Plus he matches up well vs Djoker

Your thoughts on the favorites at Wimbledon, mine are Wawrinka, Djoker, and a dark horse in Berdych to make the final.

Also, Dimitrov vs Dolgopolov in the QF at Queen's. Probably the two best young players @ the moment along with Raonic.

I'd agree with that.... except I thought that it might be Raonic as a dark horse. His movement might still not be up scratch though.

Djoker should be very motivated considering he did well in the French in spite of the fact that he wasn't at 100% those last couple matches.


EDIT: Never heard of this Dustin Brown kid.... he any good?

[BDPfit]

I'd agree with that.... except I thought that it might be Raonic as a dark horse. His movement might still not be up scratch though.

Djoker should be very motivated considering he did well in the French in spite of the fact that he wasn't at 100% those last couple matches.


EDIT: Never heard of this Dustin Brown kid.... he any good?

Raonic's footwork looked awful in the match I watched today. He was getting caught out of position so many times with balls at his feet that he just had to awkwardly fend off. I don't think he's anywhere near title contender level yet

[nvrstopworking]

Raonic's footwork looked awful in the match I watched today. He was getting caught out of position so many times with balls at his feet that he just had to awkwardly fend off. I don't think he's anywhere near title contender level yet

His best shot will probably be the US Open.... I think you're prob. right though.

[BDPfit]

His best shot will probably be the US Open.... I think you're prob. right though.

His serve was off too which is rare and def hurt him in that match but still, he can't just rely on the serve.

Has anyone seen Isner recently? Wonder if he can make a decent splash

[Dominik]

[youtube]EDeZJGGTUXc[youtube]

Here you go, Dominik. It always makes me a bit sad to think about all the ridiculous shots Brown has hit on the Challenger tour with no cameras around, haha.

Watched the whole match which obviously didn't take long.

It's great to see someone just go for broke like that and he seemed to really enjoy himself out there.

He'll need to play higher percentage tennis to string more wins together but there's no question when it works on a fast surface like Halle (seems to play a lot faster than Wimbledon) it can be quite devastating against a player who isn't comfortable on the surface.

[anibani]

I'm not quite sold on Stan. He could be one of those weird guys that inexplicably never contend again. He's not that young either so we'll see. I think Novak is the best suited to win right now, given he moves past RG mentally

yeah definitely agreed... not too sure what to expect from him in the following slams. would be delighted if he did well @ wimbledon tho. can wait for it to start ...

[Willrey]

Raonic's footwork looked awful in the match I watched today. He was getting caught out of position so many times with balls at his feet that he just had to awkwardly fend off. I don't think he's anywhere near title contender level yet

This, his footwork always gets exposed, I remember last year I think he played Murray, it might have been the US open and he got battered and looked so cumbersome, he has improved but I don't think he can move as well as say Del Potro who moves deceptively well for a big guy,

anyone watching Brown v kohlschreiber, some incredible shot making

[VictorJustice]

Second set was hilarious, Brown was up 5-0 and then hit two DF at 5-1 30-30 and three at 5-3. Then suddenly comfortably held at 5-5 and broke to love at 6-5, standard.

[VictorJustice]

Holy ****, 18-16 Kohlschreiber in the third set tiebreak, unbelievable match. UGH, disgusting.

[Tuga88]

Some great semi finals taking place at Queen's today brahs.

Dimitrov vs Wawrinka
Lopez vs Stepanek

Lopez has been serving amazingly well this tournament and will be interesting to see how well Dimitrov does against Stan since everyone is tipping him to be one of the best in the near future.