How to lose fat for Noobs

[.aeterna]

Actually, I rarely got complimented, most people asked me if I was sick or becoming anorexic.

What's funny is that even family and friends would rather listen to some TV/Magazine quack than to someone who got ripped before their very eyes. Doesn't bother me but if someone asks me, I'll tell them how it really works.

aint that the truth, i get that "anorexia" accusation if i pass on a few slices of pizza or beers

explaining to people around me that eating healthy food in a good caloric deficit is actually BETTER for you overall in the short and long term.

see those overweight ppl? yea, not only am i gonna look better than them, im gonna live longer and have less health problems

GG!

[BigfatRob]

I just finished a bulk that took me from 175 last winter to 190 this morning. I GAINED that weight while continuing to exercise three times a week (including cardio and for a total of six hours a week) and without eating junk food (well, maybe a burrito once a week). I ate the same foods (chicken breasts, eggs, fish, lean beef, broccoli, etc.) that I ate the last time I cut but I ate more of them.

Now, it's time to start counting the calories closely while keeping the lifts heavy and SHRED THIS MOTHER UP! As I gained weight over the last four months, it freaked me out a little because it took a lot of effort to lose it. However, WaveLength has made the whole thing so simple that I am confident that I will be able to lose the extra fat that I took on over the last four months and that, hopefully, some of that extra 15 pounds is muscle that I can convince to stay behind by feeding it protein and making it feel needed by continuing to lift heavy.



By the way, I've still read every post in this thread (just sayin' is all)!

I think I'm just as fat as you are at the moment However, I'm seeing the benefits of muscle memory from my old days. I went with my old school training ethics and combined it with new age dieting techniques. Hopefully our cuts go great, I'd wish you luck but it's not needed!

[illninofan21]

Erick Stevens if you're reading this I have a few questions for you:

1) What's your current BF%?

2) What's the lowest that you've ever gotten?

3) Did you ever consider any other style of dieting or is the (I would assume) the wave_length style of IF enough for you?

[Insight]

i'm thinking about starting an "advanced fat loss approaches" thread. something to complement this one. something outlining a basic IF schedule, talking about nonlinear intake/caloric cycling, keto diets with massive refeeds (UD2 type stuff), maybe explain PSMF and how it works, stuff about refeeding, diet breaks, etc. stuff that people really only need to worry about when they've been dieting for so long that their maintenance requirements start to lower to "pain in the ass" levels.

wave could probably contribute a hell of a lot of ideas as well. his brand of IF clearly is having success for many.

just a thought but i'd need to make sure i have the research all correct first.

edit: some stuff could be thrown in about cardio as well - when your maintenance gets lowered to BWx10 or BWx8 from months of dieting, especially for smaller people (girls), eating a tiny ass amount of food can get to be a pain in the ass. maybe going over cardio from a "fat loss" perspective instead of from a "aerobic training" perspective - suggesting to people to try LISS or moderate intensity cardio instead of assuming they need HIIT, debunking the "HIIT burns 9x as much fat" myth, etc.

[ErickStevens]

Erick Stevens if you're reading this I have a few questions for you:
1) What's your current BF%?

I estimate it to be around 12%. I'm trying to get to around 10 or a little bit below. Shooting for 185-190lbs.

2) What's the lowest that you've ever gotten?

You're looking at it.

3) Did you ever consider any other style of dieting or is the (I would assume) the wave_length style of IF enough for you?

Dude, it seems like I've been dieting my whole life. I've done them all: South Beach, Body for Life, Atkins, Palumbo, Anabolic, carb cycling, RFL - This has worked better than any of them because I'm able to sustain it. It's easy to stay consistent when you're not forced to restrict yourself on a constant basis. Rhe LeanGains approach (Martin Berkhan's approach to IF) is the best and most effective diet I've ever used and plan on doing it for the foreseeable future.

[Insight]

Dude, it seems like I've been dieting my whole life. I've done them all: South Beach, Body for Life, Atkins, Palumbo, Anabolic, carb cycling, RFL - This has worked better than any of them because I'm able to sustain it. It's easy to stay consistent when you're not forced to restrict yourself on a constant basis. Rhe LeanGains approach (Martin Berkhan's approach to IF) is the best and most effective diet I've ever used and plan on doing it for the foreseeable future.

I would like to add in conjunction with my previous post that Martin's approach is just a very clever way of getting one to apply the 3 rules.

although I do think that there may very well be a benefit to putting more calories on training days, for LBM retention's sake. I know a lot of people in this thread got crazy lean without losing any muscle, but I'm losing strength in the gym now. I gained strength pretty linearly from 22-24% bf down to about 14-15%. now I'm starting to lose strength on a lot of stuff. I'm gonna try putting more cals on training days and see how it goes.

[ErickStevens]

Yeah, I'm still setting PRs (90lb x 6 on weighted dips and 435 x 3 on DLs with no straps this week) despite being in a deficit of ~1000cals 4x per week. I'd probably up my cals on training days if I were you.

[illninofan21]

Dude, it seems like I've been dieting my whole life. I've done them all: South Beach, Body for Life, Atkins, Palumbo, Anabolic, carb cycling, RFL - This has worked better than any of them because I'm able to sustain it. It's easy to stay consistent when you're not forced to restrict yourself on a constant basis. Rhe LeanGains approach (Martin Berkhan's approach to IF) is the best and most effective diet I've ever used and plan on doing it for the foreseeable future.

I have to say, I'm in just about the same boat...I did a lot of things for fear of hitting a stall or something like that, and the reality was that I was eating too much (hence why I didn't lose weight).

Such was the case with my carb cycling attempt last year...well, so far in three weeks, I'm doing an IF/Wave-length style diet and I'm down from 220+ to about 213-214 on average (all lost in the extremities like arms, shoulders and upper chest...no luck on the face, lower chest or abs yet!), and the things I'm eating would make diet purists sh*t themselves (as if they haven't done that enough from seeing wave's diet, lol). I'm losing weight crazy-fast and yet still, my biggest fear is that I'll hit a stall like Insight (without taking a dig at him, perhaps it's just genetics as to why you've stalled so long? Not enough lean mass?).

That said, do you do refeeds at all? Or do you see them as necessary. I guess I ask because part of me still thinks that it really can't be this simple!

[Insight]

Such was the case with my carb cycling attempt last year...well, so far in three weeks, I'm doing an IF/Wave-length style diet and I'm down from 220+ to about 213-214 on average, and the things I'm eating would make diet purists sh*t themselves (as if they haven't done that enough from seeing wave's diet, lol). I'm losing weight crazy-fast and yet still, my biggest fear is that I'll hit a stall like Insight (without taking a dig at him, perhaps it's just genetics as to why you've stalled so long? Not enough lean mass?).

Haha, I haven't stalled anymore! I stalled in February and waited 3 weeks as per wave_length's advice before lowering cals. I figured I was just retaining water.

March I went on vacation a lot and so only lost 2 lbs instead of 4, but I expected that.

April I lost about 3 lbs instead of 4 for the whole month, so I'm dropping cals down further to about 1600 a day. I'm going to try that with IF at first just for convenience and if that really sucks, I'll stay at 1800 cals and throw in some LISS cardio instead.

My current problem is that I'm losing strength in the gym. Whether this is because of crappy genetics, just dieting for too long, or just not getting enough calories to drive growth post-workout, I can't say. That's why I was thinking about throwing more cals on training days and less on off days.

I'm also just tired of still dieting, I thought I had way more LBM than I did. Or more realistically, I probably lost some of it. But oh well.

[iDrive]

stuff that people really only need to worry about when they've been dieting for so long that their maintenance requirements start to lower to "pain in the ass" levels.

I know its anecdotal, and I hate using anecdote to make my points, but both Martin and Wave used basically just the three rules and have gotten to, maintained and recomped without any of the various "advanced techniques" you listed.

I mean I'm not saying they don't have their place but it makes you think if those methods are really any more effective than the 3 rules.

although I do think that there may very well be a benefit to putting more calories on training days, for LBM retention's sake.

Martin actually does/recommends this I believe... or did at one point.

[ErickStevens]

I haven't had to do a refeed yet. Hopefully I keep getting consistently leaner like I have been, although I'd love to put down double portions of cereal.

[Insight]

I know its anecdotal, and I hate using anecdote to make my points, but both Martin and Wave used basically just the three rules and have gotten to, maintained and recomped without any of the various "advanced techniques" you listed.

What are you talking about? Martin basically says IF is the reason he managed to ever get that lean to begin with. He was PSMFing with EOD refeeds for a while. He lists refeeding during the diet as one of the reasons why he managed to get down to 5.5% and stay there. Nonlinear intake (and even more specifically, carb cycling) is one of the primary tenets of his diet. Martin basically did every single thing that I listed, and he was one of the people I had in mind when I came up with the post.

wave_length's approach itself is a form of IF. Both of the people that you mentioned use techniques listed in the post.

[illninofan21]

I haven't had to do a refeed yet. Hopefully I keep getting consistently leaner like I have been, although I'd love to put down double portions of cereal.

Ahh...I thought about just doing days in where I'd "eat a little more than normal" but other than that, nothing else really.

Hopefully I won't need it!

[illninofan21]

Haha, I haven't stalled anymore! I stalled in February and waited 3 weeks as per wave_length's advice before lowering cals. I figured I was just retaining water.

March I went on vacation a lot and so only lost 2 lbs instead of 4, but I expected that.

April I lost about 3 lbs instead of 4 for the whole month, so I'm dropping cals down further to about 1600 a day. I'm going to try that with IF at first just for convenience and if that really sucks, I'll stay at 1800 cals and throw in some LISS cardio instead.

My current problem is that I'm losing strength in the gym. Whether this is because of crappy genetics, just dieting for too long, or just not getting enough calories to drive growth post-workout, I can't say. That's why I was thinking about throwing more cals on training days and less on off days.

I'm also just tired of still dieting, I thought I had way more LBM than I did. Or more realistically, I probably lost some of it. But oh well.

Ahh...good to see I was mistaken.

[illninofan21]

I estimate it to be around 12%. I'm trying to get to around 10 or a little bit below. Shooting for 185-190lbs.

I forgot to mention, if you're around 12% there and at 203, you'll easily hit the mid-upper 190s at 10%.

I just can't see you needing to lose THAT much more. Or maybe I'm being optimistic for you!

[Confuzzl3dOn3]

Low reps and HEAVY weights is more suiting for experienced lifts who already know proper form and what not. I think noobs should spend some time in the rep ranges that Wave mentioned just for sake of good form and preventing injury.

Well considering i am doing 5 reps i wouldn't say that it's a big difference from doing 6. But i agree that nailing form is important.

I'm gonna differ from the status quo in this thread a bit.

The last thing is that the routine you just posted - Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" - is not one I would personally recommend while trying to lose weight, male female or otherwise. I definitely can't handle squatting 3x a week and I doubt you will be able to either. Furthermore those are extremely technical exercises you're about to learn - power cleans and full ROM squats. They require a good understanding of the form or else you will hurt yourself. So be prepared for that.

You might enjoy something like all pro's "Simple Beginner Routine." It's a periodized routine and was the first routine I grew really well off of. You can find it in the Workout forum.

Keep in mind you can get good results with machines as well, but free weight exercises are much cooler and will make you feel more awesome. Way more awesome. Pick a balance that you can enjoy - if you really can't figure out how to do a freeweight exercise, for example (let's say barbell back squats), try the machine version instead, or try the leg press. Or get someone to try to teach you the right form.

Good luck!

Haha i should probably take the link out of my sig. I started SS last year, so i think it's been about 9 months or so. I think my upper body lifts still have a long way to go, but my progress has already slowed down significantly to only 0.5-1kg increases per session. So i'm not really starting out on SS, more like i'm nearing the end (at least for lower body lifts) and i want to lose some of those love handles before taking on a more hypertrophy-aimed program. I was just wondering if i could keep on SS though to continue milking some more gains especially on the upper body lifts. And i'm no longer squatting 3x heavy a week. Switched to a light (80% of monday's weight) squat on wednesday, and i only deadlift once a week.

[ErickStevens]

I forgot to mention, if you're around 12% there and at 203, you'll easily hit the mid-upper 190s at 10%.

I just can't see you needing to lose THAT much more. Or maybe I'm being optimistic for you!

I'm actually 197.5 in my avatar. Trust me, there's still some fat to lose!

[ErickStevens]

I'm going to be following the Wave diet to a T when I go on vacation in a couple weeks. I'm going to the Atlantis in the Bahamas with the fam, so prepping my own meals willbe pretty hard. I'm going to break the fast with 100g protein from a shake, then my next meal will be at night. This will allow me a little more freedom at night (Nobu!) and I won't be all bloated during the day when I'm walking around shirtless. I wouldn't be surprised if I drop a pound or two, since I'm going to do cardio every day I'm there and don't plan on pigging out.

[Sabouneh]

hey guys tell me what you think is the best option for me here...

1. keep cutting.. lose another 10lbs then start my slow bulk..
2. eat at maintenance and try to recomp...

i think the first option would be best IMO.. to me i still find it hard to believe that recomping actually works.. since your not eating above maintenance how can you add muscle mass without the extra cals ?

thanks

[BaseJumper]

I mean I'm not saying they don't have their place but it makes you think if those methods are really any more effective than the 3 rules.

wait...

Wut rules?

[Teflon_Don]

hey guys tell me what you think is the best option for me here...

1. keep cutting.. lose another 10lbs then start my slow bulk..
2. eat at maintenance and try to recomp...

i think the first option would be best IMO.. to me i still find it hard to believe that recomping actually works.. since your not eating above maintenance how can you add muscle mass without the extra cals ?

thanks

I vote for Option 1. Reach that goal and it will help with reaching other goals later on.

[BigfatRob]

I vote for Option 1. Reach that goal and it will help with reaching other goals later on.

I vote for option 1 as well.

[Sabouneh]

thats what im thinking... even if i drop to 140... it would give me more room to bulk without looking fat.. even if i only bulk to 150 or so very slowly i would still look rather lean .. i just hope once i get down to desired weight that i will look bigger than i do now..

[BigfatRob]

thats what im thinking... even if i drop to 140... it would give me more room to bulk without looking fat.. even if i only bulk to 150 or so very slowly i would still look rather lean .. i just hope once i get down to desired weight that i will look bigger than i do now..

You're not going to look any bigger if you lose mass but you may look more muscular and better.

[ricohitman]

thats what im thinking... even if i drop to 140... it would give me more room to bulk without looking fat.. even if i only bulk to 150 or so very slowly i would still look rather lean .. i just hope once i get down to desired weight that i will look bigger than i do now..

Cut down to 10%, then slow bulk. So yeah...option 1. Much better in the long run. If you feel yourself getting fat fatty, do a small 1-2 month cut along the way.

[Sabouneh]

think im gonna try and get below 10% so i have some more room to work with in terms of being able to gain some weight without the worry

[iDrive]

What are you talking about? Martin basically says IF is the reason he managed to ever get that lean to begin with. He was PSMFing with EOD refeeds for a while. He lists refeeding during the diet as one of the reasons why he managed to get down to 5.5% and stay there. Nonlinear intake (and even more specifically, carb cycling) is one of the primary tenets of his diet. Martin basically did every single thing that I listed, and he was one of the people I had in mind when I came up with the post.

wave_length's approach itself is a form of IF. Both of the people that you mentioned use techniques listed in the post.

I suppose your right. I don't think that any of those methods are key reasons for them getting to low body fat other than increasing adherence.

wait...

Wut rules?

1st RULE: You do not talk about How to Lose Fat for Noobs.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about How to Lose Fat for Noobs.

3rd RULE: If someone says "insulin spike", cheat's on their diet or eats carbs the diet is over.

[BaseJumper]

LMFAO!

Diet Club.

In Wave we trust!

[mattb_25]

So I just have another question regarding the question I had the other day.. Kinda weird question but how long does the food you eat actually take to make you go up in weight if you overeat possibly? Because like I ate bad this weekend and I'm pretty sure I went over my maintenance by a bit like 2 days in a row but last night I threw up because I drank a lot for my friends bday, and today I had to use the bathroom since I haven't in like a week and I actually lost a lb since Friday... I was 184.5 friday, and now I'm 183.5.. Does that mean that I actually possibly lost fat still or does it take a few days for the food that I ate to turn into fat if that indeed happens?

[Insight]

hey guys tell me what you think is the best option for me here...

1. keep cutting.. lose another 10lbs then start my slow bulk..
2. eat at maintenance and try to recomp...

i think the first option would be best IMO.. to me i still find it hard to believe that recomping actually works.. since your not eating above maintenance how can you add muscle mass without the extra cals ?

thanks

you can very slowly build muscle mass because of nutrient partitioning effects. lifting weights improves muscular nutrient sensitivity, particularly in the hours after the workout. One way to really tweak this is to run a diet comprised of anabolic vs catabolic "cycles", like UD2, or some kind of calorie cycling variant.

Probably the most basic approach to recomping is something we already do - eat some carbs and protein pre- and post-workout, but eat the rest of the day at maintenance. This sucking those nutrients into the muscle in the hours after the workout but leaves a bit less to be oxidized later on, thus creating a small deficit in which bodyfat stores are tapped.

The same will happen in the recovery period in the day (or days) following the workout. Some of the energy that you eat will be taken up in muscle tissue, thus leaving a bit less to be oxidized. Hence the day itself is split up into mini anabolic and catabolic phases.

More complicated approaches to recomping attempt to widen the metabolic gap between these two phases either by increasing their duration, their intensity, or both. UD2, for example, splits the entire week into a single catabolic and a single anabolic phase, and does some tricks with glycogen depletion to make the catabolic phase even more catabolic and then a huge carb-refeed to make the anabolic phase even more anabolic. 16/8 intermittent fasting attempts to do the same thing intra-diem, by creating a catabolic phase earlier in the day and an anabolic phase later in the day. Caloric cycling attempts to do the same thing between days.

Which one is "most effective," anecdotally, I have no idea. I would imagine that either of the "more advanced approaches" are better than the simple maintenance + lifting approach for recomping. I would also imagine that if you could run a study comparing UD2 with caloric cycling, that UD2 would come out on top since the anabolic phase also encapsulates the post-workout recovery phase. UD2 is also way f*cking harder than the rest of them.

Anyway, this is a long rant, but to answer your initial question, I say you should cut first.

I suppose your right. I don't think that any of those methods are key reasons for them getting to low body fat other than increasing adherence.

That's the idea. But I do believe that the calorie cycling might have some benefit for LBM retention though. I'll see how it works out for me in the coming weeks, since I'm losing strength and probably some LBM now.

1st RULE: You do not talk about How to Lose Fat for Noobs.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about How to Lose Fat for Noobs.

3rd RULE: If someone says "insulin spike", cheat's on their diet or eats carbs the diet is over.

haha!