Official Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[CXVII]

I did come up with a proper argument. Youre simply ignorant. I say again, ive never gotten a single Muslim on here or irl to say it was 100% wrong. I will neg anyone who attempts to defend it.

I dont bash all christians because jesus didnt **** a 9 year old girl.

You keep reverting back to that despite me telling you to educate yourself on the matter by actually questioning them personally.

[DocHol1day]

You keep reverting back to that despite me telling you to educate yourself on the matter by actually questioning them personally.

I do. They've all said it was a different time therefore its ok. Sick.

[TrainHard22]

Will you ever stop posting that slanderous lie of a map?

To all those who don't know, that map is a total lie.

- The first picture never happened. It shows parts of Israel that were majority Jewish in 1946, but that doesn't mean that Jews did not live all over that land. Plus, Britain ruled the entire area, both green and white, during that time, and the Turks ruled the area before that, so there was never a "Palestinian State" there.

- The second picture never happened. This was the UN proposal, which the Arabs (and Palestinians) rejected. They fought a war against this, and got beaten soundly, which leads us to...........

- The third picture is the result of the 1947 war, which the Arabs and Palestinians lost. And even then, the green areas were ruled by Jordan and Egypt, not "Palestinians". The Jordanians even gave those in the "West Bank" full Jordanian citizenship, and they were not referred to as Palestinians, but Jordanians.

- The fourth picture was the result of Oslo. In between the third and fourth pictures, Israel conquered all of the green areas of the third picture. But then, some very stupid Israeli leaders, pushed by foolish western leaders, decided to create a "Palestinian entity" (which never existed before) in the green areas of the fourth picture. The green areas in the Forth picture were given to the Palestinians, they never had them before, yet they act like they used to rule all of Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth. Also, the complete lake of gratitude towards Israel by the Palestinians for giving them land which they didn't deserve in the first place is disgusting and reprehensible.

Here is an accurate map of the sacrifices that Israel has made for peace (although the Palestinians are intent on not letting Israeli's live peacefully):

LOL I was going to completely avoid this thread but you made me laugh so ****ing hard, I should rep you just for the gut bursting laughter.

Israel LOST a war in 1973 which is why they RETURNED land that they had previously ANNEXED from other internationally recognized countries. They didn't give up **** for peace lmao so hard. Today, Palestinians are behind walls in a prison style area and every day the Israels TAKE more land. They have never returned land to Palestinians, they only returned land to countries that beat them in war. They currently, still illegally occupy lands of countries in the same way as Russia currently occupies Crimea/Eastern Ukraine.

[ZioBot]

Lol ^

[CXVII]

I do. They've all said it was a different time therefore its ok. Sick.

They really said it was okay? Everyone I interviewed said it wasn't okay yet understood the social norms at the time.

[A-GAME]

Will the RP supporters of Palestine condemn this child abuse?

[DocHol1day]

They really said it was okay? Everyone I interviewed said it wasn't okay yet understood the social norms at the time.

Right but then i follow that up with pointing out that their religion specifically mandates against change and that according to islam gods law doesnt change. So either it was wrong then and they should criticize mo for it, or its still ok which they disagree with (except that filthy pervert illriginalized, he thinks its fine but not necessary).

There is a massive hole in the argument presented to defend mo on this issue and their refusal to admit he made a mistake tells me they do not belong in the west.

[CXVII]

Right but then i follow that up with pointing out that their religion specifically mandates against change and that according to islam gods law doesnt change. So either it was wrong then and they should criticize mo for it, or its still ok which they disagree with (except that filthy pervert illriginalized, he thinks its fine but not necessary).

There is a massive hole in the argument presented to defend mo on this issue and their refusal to admit he made a mistake tells me they do not belong in the west.

The religion has always adaptable and has slightly changed throughout the centuries as interpreted by the Imams and the rulers at the time to suit their political goals. It has always depended from culture to culture how one instance women had the same rights as men in one culture and a complete 180 in another. For example, the Quran says something alone the lines that "all women must submit to men" or whatever yet Indonesia has had a female Muslim prime ministers while the US hasn't ever had a female president.

[DocHol1day]

The religion has always adaptable and has slightly changed throughout the centuries as interpreted by the Imams and the rulers at the time to suit their political goals. It has always depended from culture to culture how one instance women had the same rights as men in one culture and a complete 180 in another. For example, the Quran says something alone the lines that "all women must submit to men" or whatever yet Indonesia has had a female Muslim prime ministers while the US hasn't ever had a female president.

Every muslim ive ever talked to says islam cant change. Look at the islamic reformation thread. Theyre all against it.

All i want is for Muslims to say mohammad was wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl. None will. Stop defending this.

[CXVII]

Every muslim ive ever talked to says islam cant change. Look at the islamic reformation thread. Theyre all against it.

All i want is for Muslims to say mohammad was wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl. None will. Stop defending this.

You expect every Muslim to be an expert in their own religion and agree on the same things when most are the huge hypocrites themselves who only believe what they've been told from their family members or Imams, which is why there is so much infighting within the religion (secularists vs extremists, etc). Really no different from Christians who are ignorant of their own Bible and the similarities to the Quran. I've actually studied a bit on this have had conversations with Muslim professors who have studied the various sociological and historical aspects of the religion (one of them had even been sought out by a family whose son had joined ISIS in an effort to convince him to leave and Prof refuted every argument that son had made regarding the rationalisation behind his violent actions. Kid had was finally convinced and wanted to return home but had no way out and was killed (no sympathy from me though, stupid choice). That being said the one's I have spoken to, you know the ones who know more than your average clueless Muslim do, and I repeat again do say that what Muhammad did was wrong but they also understand the cultural norms of the time.

And you're probably gonna repeat the whole "Why do Muslims think Muhammad was perfect" thing so I'll just quote what brah from previous page posted

You clearly dont know much about the history of Islam.

Cliffs
Muslims respect Muhammad as he was chosen to deliver the Quran to humanity. It was made pretty clear that he was just a normal human and not worthy of worship. The original reason that Muhammad didn't want any portrayals of himself was because he didn't want to be worshiped. i.e Muslims should only focus on the Quran for guidance. Your criticisms appear to be aimed at 7th century Gulf Arab society, but you are just targeting Muhammad because you have an irrational hate for Muslims. Dont act surprised that the Muslims you speak to wont entertain that.

As for the "perfection"...its complicated and involves a lot of politics:

Some Muslims consider the prophets life as perfect because he was constantly guided by God at the time (Sunnis). So Sunnis place a lot of focus on the hadiths (recordings of how the prophet lived his life) and how he was guided by God. Whabbis (originated from Saudi, quite recently) take this concept a bit further and try to apply it to everything from that period. i.e if camels were used in those days, camels must he holy...etc. Mock if you want but your government is actually allied with these people.

Some Muslims consider the prophets bloodline as perfect because he was chosen by God to deliver the message (Shias). So Shias place a lot of focus on the family of the prophet. They tend to focus on different hadiths.

Some Muslims even believe that Hadiths can trump the Quran.


But in my opinion, all this has nothing to do with the terror attacks we are seeing in the Middle East. History shows that a stable government in the Middle East can be successful. Look at Jordan for example. The problem comes when the governments are overthrown and the nutcases who overthrew them suddenly have all the power.

[DocHol1day]

what Muhammad did was wrong ].

Never heard that once. Find me ONE to say it here.

And i dont give a **** about cultural norms. If you cant condemn something as always wrong then that meams their are circumstances where you would be ok with it. That is NOT ok. That is SICK.

[CXVII]

Never heard that once. Find me ONE to say it here.

And i dont give a **** about cultural norms. If you cant condemn something as always wrong then that meams their are circumstances where you would be ok with it. That is NOT ok. That is SICK.

You mentioned yourself you don't know many, how about you find out yourself and actually go to a mosque to question them (which I highly doubt you've done). And you're pretty dense aren't you? there's a difference between condemning something and understanding it happened. It was a cultural norm in some cultures to practice cannibalisation. These days they acknowledge it happened in the past and obviously condemn it in this day and age. Speaking of cultural norms, people these days condemn public executions and crucifixion yet still idolise the symbol of the cross and re-enact it themselves.

[DocHol1day]

You mentioned yourself you don't know many, how about you find out yourself and actually go to a mosque to question them (which I highly doubt you've done). And you're pretty dense aren't you? there's a difference between condemning something and understanding it happened. It was a cultural norm in some cultures to practice cannibalisation. These days they acknowledge it happened in the past and obviously condemn it in this day and age. Speaking of cultural norms, people these days condemn public executions and crucifixion yet still idolise the symbol of the cross and re-enact it themselves.

Smh and he calls me the dense one....


Theres several muslims itt. If they wamt to 100% criticize mo for child molestation they can. They wont do it.

End of story.

[CXVII]

Smh and he calls me the dense one....


Theres several muslims itt. If they wamt to 100% criticize mo for child molestation they can. They wont do it.

End of story.

So you're gonna base your perception on the few you know irl and some *******s on a bodybuilding forum. If they won't do it then that's clearly their own opinion and don't speak for every Muslim, because you know, everyone's different?

[DocHol1day]

So you're gonna base your perception on the few you know irl and some *******s on a bodybuilding forum. If they won't do it then that's clearly their own opinion and don't speak for every Muslim, because you know, everyone's different?

I agree. If i meet one that actually condemns all cases of child molestation without making ignorant excuses i wont assume hes a piece of ****.

[CXVII]

I agree. If i meet one that actually condemns all cases of child molestation without making ignorant excuses i wont assume hes a piece of ****.

Well good luck then. Tbh it wasn't even that hard for me to find one that condemned it. First dude I interviewed said "What the fuk do you think, of course that chit is wrong but you have to understand things were different back then and European Christian clergies are also guilty of child abuse, etc.". And no that isn't an ignorant excuse because social/cultural norms are understandable as I discussed earlier. But whatever brah, honestly I had the same mindset as you a couple years ago until I educated myself more on this matter.

[DocHol1day]

Well good luck then. Tbh it wasn't even that hard for me to find one that condemned it. First dude I interviewed said "What the fuk do you think, of course that chit is wrong but you have to understand things were different back then and European Christian clergies are also guilty of child abuse, etc.". And no that isn't an ignorant excuse because social/cultural norms are understandable as I discussed earlier. But whatever brah, honestly I had the same mindset as you a couple years ago until I educated myself more on this matter.

I dont accept the cultural norms excuse. If you cant say something is always wrong then youre open to allowing it to happen again. I will not stand by and allow child molestation to occur. Child molestation is always wrong. Even in 7th century arabia. Period. The end. Full stop.

[CXVII]

I dont accept the cultural norms excuse. If you cant say something is always wrong then youre open to allowing it to happen again. I will not stand by and allow child molestation to occur. Child molestation is always wrong. Even in 7th century arabia. Period. The end. Full stop.

How many times do I have to repeat that there's a difference between condemning something and accepting the fact that it happened?

[DocHol1day]

How many times do I have to repeat that there's a difference between condemning something and accepting the fact that it happened?

......

Accept it happened? Wtf do you even mean by that?

It happened. It was sick and wrong. Its still sick and wrong. Anyone who doesnt think so is sick.

If your next post is anything other than agreeing with that, don't bother. You will never convince me child molestation is anything but ALWAYS 100% sick and wrong.

[CXVII]

......

Accept it happened? Wtf do you even mean by that?

It happened. It was sick and wrong. Its still sick and wrong. Anyone who doesnt think so is sick.

If your next post is anything other than agreeing with that, don't bother. You will never convince me child molestation is any but ALWAYS 100% sick and wrong.

What the fuk? It happened and it's wrong. End of. Not even sure if you're just trolling now. Cannibalism happened too, that's an accepted fact. Accepting the fact that it happened in the past is not the same as using it as a justifiable excuse. As I repeat again, many Muslims know Muhammad wasn't perfect as he was only human. They may not agree with some of the things he did but they understand the social norms at the time as non-Muslims also partook in those same practices.

[DocHol1day]

What the fuk? It happened and it's wrong. End of. Not even sure if you're just trolling now. Cannibalism happened too, that's an accepted fact. Accepting the fact that it happened in the past is not the same as using it as a justifiable excuse. As I repeat again, many Muslims know Muhammad wasn't perfect as he was only human. They may not agree with some of the things he did but they understand the social norms at the time as non-Muslims also partook in those same practices.

I agree. It happened and it was wrong. Mohammad was wrong for doing it. End of.

Id love to hear a muslim say that.

[Tha big kahoona]

Shekel

[bcop]

I just found out that Omar Barghouti, one of the founders of the BDS movement and one of its most prominent members, is currently a PhD student at Tel Aviv University.

LOL

[AA43560]

I just found out that Omar Barghouti, one of the founders of the BDS movement and one of its most prominent members, is currently a PhD student at Tel Aviv University.

LOL

Attacking from the inside is a great strategy.Kinda like how Haneen Zoabi operates.

[bcop]

Attacking from the inside is a great strategy.Kinda like how Haneen Zoabi operates.

But he is a hypocrite. How can he call for BDS when he travels to Israel (he was born in Qatar and grew up in Egypt) and enrolls in TAU, and not one in the West Bank (Al Quds, or similar schoos)? Does he want to be boycotted too?

The fact that he is not expelled from TAU (or Israel itself) tells a lot about which side is really more tolerant. I am sure that a student at Al Quds calling for a boycott of Palestinians would not last too long there.

[johnnycomehome]

Attacking from the inside is a great strategy.Kinda like how Haneen Zoabi operates.

You're funny. Even most Israeli Arabs I know think she is a kunt. But stay sitting in your house in Ohio pretending you feel their pain.

[DocHol1day]

You're funny. Even most Israeli Arabs I know think she is a kunt. But stay sitting in your house in Ohio pretending you feel their pain.

And ranting like a lunatic about settlers while ignoring he lives on settled native land...

[nygiants4life]

As a Christian Egyptian who has no dog in this fight...I honestly couldn't care less about either side and wish they would both **** off. There is no guilt free party in this fight but I understand why people hold Israel to a higher standard since they are actually a country (sorry Palestinians).

I'm just glad our battle with Israel ended in 73, we got our Sinai back, and the peace treaty is still in place.

[TheNewbie]

As a Christian Egyptian who has no dog in this fight...I honestly couldn't care less about either side and wish they would both **** off. There is no guilt free party in this fight but I understand why people hold Israel to a higher standard since they are actually a country (sorry Palestinians).

I'm just glad our battle with Israel ended in 73, we got our Sinai back, and the peace treaty is still in place.

As an Egyptian you've been brainwashed your entire life to hate both Jews and Israel. As a Christian you should have favored Israel without even giving it a second thought, but obviously you've been blinded and can't really see what's going on around you.

[TranceNRG]

As a Christian you should have favored Israel without even giving it a second thought

Another nugget of gold from Newbie!

Is this your expectation of all Christians?
If a Christian doesn't support/favour (current secular state of) Israel, then .... he's not a good Christian??
(I assume by Israel, you mean today's Israel, the secular state of Israel.)