My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[JasonDB]

actualy your skull crusher video...
moving the bar behind my head feels 100% more effective than when i did them to my head..
the bench press video was good to though
thanks

Ah ok. Yes a couple of people, including a natty pro bodybuilder (Milone79 here) mentioned that they were unaware that a skullcrusher could burn that badly until they tried it after watching the video. LoL

[LocomotiveCurt]

I've been doing starting strength for a little over 4 months straight (really started in January, but broke my wrist this march). I've noticed some decent gains in terms of my lower body, but my upper is progressing very slowly in comparison. Do you think if i switched to the 5x5, i would see an increase or should i continue doing what im doing for a little longer before i switch

Heres some background:

Height : 5 foot 8
Weight: 172 lbs

Squat:320x5x3
Bench:170x5x3
Press:105x5x3
Deads:250x5x3 (feel i can do more, taking it slowly because nervous about my back)
Rows: 155x5x3

[lrd3]

if its working keep with it. if it ain't broke dont fix it.
but on the same page. if it ain't working after giving it a true fair shot=move on
if you give any program a fair shot and it doesn't work for you move on.
just be sure you dont end up jumping from one program to another. give what ever you run a true shot to work.
i was looking at SS for a wile but honestly there just wasn't enough there to keep me interested or developing.
ive onely been on this for 4 lift days but so fare i really like it. time will tell. i figured by end of Oct i will be able to nail down exactly how i feel about it..... i figured that will be a fair shot for this.....

[LocomotiveCurt]

if its working keep with it. if it ain't broke dont fix it.
but on the same page. if it ain't working after giving it a true fair shot=move on
if you give any program a fair shot and it doesn't work for you move on.
just be sure you dont end up jumping from one program to another. give what ever you run a true shot to work.
i was looking at SS for a wile but honestly there just wasn't enough there to keep me interested or developing.
ive onely been on this for 4 lift days but so fare i really like it. time will tell. i figured by end of Oct i will be able to nail down exactly how i feel about it..... i figured that will be a fair shot for this.....

Yea, I think im getting bored. I think im going to give it 2 more months and if i dont see the improvement in my progress. ill think about switching over to a program like this.

[lrd3]

Yea, I think im getting bored. I think im going to give it 2 more months and if i dont see the improvement in my progress. ill think about switching over to a program like this.

4 months straight is a pretty good run as is..... you should know by now if its working for you or not........

[Mr-Tripster]

This is minimal at best. Overall it's a lot of stuff but per muscle group there's very little volume. This seems like a good 1st month starting workout but for anything more than that it's definitely leaving a lot on the table to be had.

[64509chvl]

This is minimal at best. Overall it's a lot of stuff but per muscle group there's very little volume. This seems like a good 1st month starting workout but for anything more than that it's definitely leaving a lot on the table to be had.

Minimal compared to what? It's a beginner program...a great addition or option along with All Pro's beginner & Starting Strength IMO.

[JasonDB]

This is minimal at best. Overall it's a lot of stuff but per muscle group there's very little volume. This seems like a good 1st month starting workout but for anything more than that it's definitely leaving a lot on the table to be had.

This is a novice program, and actually per muscle group there is a lot of volume, and probably the maximum amount someone who isn't an intermediate would be able to tolerate.

In terms of workload on every major muscle group this routine averages: 15 sets of squats, 15 sets of rows and 17 sets of presses per week + accessory work. Would you care to explain for me which muscle groups are getting too little work for someone with one year or less of training to make fast gains on? I'll wait.

[Erik09]

Hey, Jason.

I'm fairly new to training. While I have been going to the gym for over a year, over half of that was just BS.

My lifts are pretty weak, Squats are at 220, SLDL 260, and bench 167, all 5x5.

Would you recommend this program for me, and if so, for how long?

I'm also curious as to when you would say someone is past being a novice trainee? I know I'm not even close, just curious!

If these questions have been answered before, I apologise!

[JasonDB]

Hey, Jason.

I'm fairly new to training. While I have been going to the gym for over a year, over half of that was just BS.

My lifts are pretty weak, Squats are at 220, SLDL 260, and bench 167, all 5x5.

Would you recommend this program for me, and if so, for how long?

I'm also curious as to when you would say someone is past being a novice trainee? I know I'm not even close, just curious!

If these questions have been answered before, I apologise!

This routine is still appropriate for you.

In theory one could run this program and make gains even as an intermediate but it lacks specialized weak point training, might need a little more volume, the progression might be a little fast, etc.

I'm trying to put more videos together with full detailed routines like this for intermediates but haven't gotten it done yet. Over the next month or two I should have a couple up.

[Fluix]

I'm really new and truly have no idea as to what exercises to pick. Sadly the gym I go to is only open from Mon-Thurs (School gym *sigh*) So can anyone recommend a routine (Please include what exercise to do because I don't know what to do) I can do during those 4 days for a novice.

[e-bay]

Feeling good doing this. I've only done one week so far, but the 5x5 feels great. Went 205 on my first squat session, then was able to do 230 my last workout comfortably. Everything else was finding a good starting weight for myself, but it's progressing as well. Thanks again for the routine.

[JasonDB]

I'm really new and truly have no idea as to what exercises to pick. Sadly the gym I go to is only open from Mon-Thurs (School gym *sigh*) So can anyone recommend a routine (Please include what exercise to do because I don't know what to do) I can do during those 4 days for a novice.

How about my routine in the OP of the thread? I have a video breaking the routine down for you in extreme detail, stack the workout into the only days you have if you can't space it ideally. LoL

Feeling good doing this. I've only done one week so far, but the 5x5 feels great. Went 205 on my first squat session, then was able to do 230 my last workout comfortably. Everything else was finding a good starting weight for myself, but it's progressing as well. Thanks again for the routine.

Awesome. If you or any of the others following it have a training log on this forum, I'll subscribe so link it to me.

[erebus197]

I recently switched from GST to this as I was craving full body again. Anyway, I'm pretty weak, but could use some pointers from you if you want :P http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post958044903

[JasonDB]

I recently switched from GST to this as I was craving full body again. Anyway, I'm pretty weak, but could use some pointers from you if you want :P http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post958044903

What you are doing is not my routine, it is similar but you've made some big changes, like taking the rows out of B, taking the chins out of A, using dumbbell shrugs (you'll outgrow the heaviest dumbbells in your gym inside of two months for shrugs on any strength based program), removing all the isos. I don't mind giving you some pointers here though.

Your strength itself will increase fairly quickly just to the nature of the program.

[ajsat23]

Day one is in the bag.

Here are just a few thoughts and notes I had about the workout.

I started out doing slightly less weight than what was recommended in order to be sure I hit depth for squats and to prepare for the transition from 3x5 to 5x5. Overall it was a great workout, after taking a week off I felt rested and motivated. It took me 2 hours on the dot to finish the workout, that included about 10min of warming up, stretching and setting up. I did warm up sets on the first 3 exercises of workout A (squats, bench, and rows), using a weight progression similar to that of starting strength. After that I just jumped straight into the working sets. For the 5x5 I used 2 min between sets, and 1min-1.5min for the 3x8.

As the weights get heavier and on the days I lack drive and focus, I see this workout taking a little bit longer to finish.

I am excited and optimistic to see the effect that this routine has on my body, I figure that with this routine plus proper nutrition and consistency there is no way I wont see a noticable difference.

[JasonDB]

Day one is in the bag.

Here are just a few thoughts and notes I had about the workout.

I started out doing slightly less weight than what was recommended in order to be sure I hit depth for squats and to prepare for the transition from 3x5 to 5x5. Overall it was a great workout, after taking a week off I felt rested and motivated. It took me 2 hours on the dot to finish the workout, that included about 10min of warming up, stretching and setting up. I did warm up sets on the first 3 exercises of workout A (squats, bench, and rows), using a weight progression similar to that of starting strength. After that I just jumped straight into the working sets. For the 5x5 I used 2 min between sets, and 1min-1.5min for the 3x8.

As the weights get heavier and on the days I lack drive and focus, I see this workout taking a little bit longer to finish.

I am excited and optimistic to see the effect that this routine has on my body, I figure that with this routine plus proper nutrition and consistency there is no way I wont see a noticable difference.

For us over-30 guys all the stretching and warming up starts becoming more essential. LoL

Size and strength should come pretty quickly with as you said proper nutrition and consistency.

[Skullster]

For us over 30-guys all the stretching and warming up starts becoming more essential. LoL

I hear that! lol

[badclams]

I've been doing starting strength for a little over 4 months straight (really started in January, but broke my wrist this march). I've noticed some decent gains in terms of my lower body, but my upper is progressing very slowly in comparison. Do you think if i switched to the 5x5, i would see an increase or should i continue doing what im doing for a little longer before i switch

Heres some background:

Height : 5 foot 8
Weight: 172 lbs

Squat:320x5x3
Bench:170x5x3
Press:105x5x3
Deads:250x5x3 (feel i can do more, taking it slowly because nervous about my back)
Rows: 155x5x3

That looks like my routine cept I use a lil higher reps, I have a back problem and some really bad soccer knees. It's not a major workout by no means but it's something I use when I've been outta the gym for awhile. Probally would'nt do that for four months.

[ajsat23]

For us over-30 guys all the stretching and warming up starts becoming more essential. LoL

Definitely, especially with my workout starting at 5:30 in the morning!

[JasonDB]

Definitely, especially with my workout starting at 5:30 in the morning!

My gym opens at 7 am so that is around when I get there for mine... I actually run a full body 3x a week also even though it is vastly different from this one. Also not sure if you picked up my accent in the video but Texas bro here also. My wife is British and I'm in the UK on a marriage visa.

[Erik09]

This routine is still appropriate for you.

In theory one could run this program and make gains even as an intermediate but it lacks specialized weak point training, might need a little more volume, the progression might be a little fast, etc.

I'm trying to put more videos together with full detailed routines like this for intermediates but haven't gotten it done yet. Over the next month or two I should have a couple up.

Sweet, thank you!

This week I'm just lifting really light weights because my quads still hurt from a way too high volume program (for me) that I tried last monday.
But I'll start with it next week, and log it aswell, why not

[ajsat23]

My gym opens at 7 am so that is around when I get there for mine... I actually run a full body 3x a week also even though it is vastly different from this one. Also not sure if you picked up my accent in the video but Texas bro here also. My wife is British and I'm in the UK on a marriage visa.

Cool, love it here in Texas! Though I am glad the cooler weather is coming along, working out in the garage during the summer, even in the morning, is killer (especially with the high humidity).

[lifebeckons75]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for posting your videos. I enjoy them and they are very informative. A lot of very good information squeezed into a 12-15 min video. Great stuff. Keep them coming.

Now some background and my question.

I am 37, 5'10", and have been lifting for over 10 years. But my 1rm or 5rm are nowhere close to someone who has been lifting for that long. I just started going to the gym without knowing s*&t and made a number of novice mistakes. Like doing only bicep curls etc. Oh well.... Also my nutrition always sucked because I never paid attention to macros or counting calories. I lift 5 days a week and every session is one body part (I know that is not a good approach). So my week is something like: Back day, chest day, shoulder say, arms day, legs day.

Good news is that all that is history now. 3 months ago I got very serious about nutrition and macros, and started a cutting cycle. I have gone down from 177 lbs to 158 lbs, and am still cutting (My progress pics are attached in my bodyspace, also attaching them in this post).

I also bought Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength book, mostly to get my form perfect on the big 3. And even though my lifts are pretty pathetic, I can tell you that my form is very good now. Deep squats, pause at the bottom of deadlifts, touch the bar on the chest for bench and standing presses.

As far as my lifts, I am embarrassed as my numbers are no where close to decent. I'm also 37, so am careful not to hurt myself. But these numbers have to go up.
Bench: 185 lbs (5 reps)
Squats: 185 lbs (5 reps)
Deads: 275 lbs (5 reps)

Based on all of this:
a. Nutrition: I have my nutrition and macros is great shape now. I am 158 lbs and currently cutting at 2200 cals. 180 g of protein, 60-70 g of fat.
b. Lifting: Go to the gym 5 times a week and am very serious about lifting. **** This is where I need improvement. ****

1. I am really leaning towards changing my workouts into a 3-day a week full-body setup. Would you agree with that?
2. Am I considered a novice even though I have been lifting for over 10 years? If yes, is your novice 5x5 for me, or is there an intermediate routine?
3. Should I switch to bulking now based on my progress and pictures, or can I extend cutting until I lose another 3 or 4 lbs. I must tell you that this is my first cutting cycle ever.

Thanks again for the great videos!

[JasonDB]

1. I am really leaning towards changing my workouts into a 3-day a week full-body setup. Would you agree with that?
2. Am I considered a novice even thought I have been lifting for over 10 years? If yes, is your novice 5x5 for me, or is there an intermediate routine?
3. Should I switch to bulking now based on my progress and pictures, or can I extend cutting until I lose another 3 or 4 lbs. I must tell you that this is my first cutting cycle ever.

I have a hypothetical intermediate routine up that is also full body but it doesn't list progression, resets etc and includes weak point training. It was a hypothetical I did as one of my first Q&A's but I will do a couple of intermediate routines this year in videos. Honestly with your stats on squat and deads this routine is still appropriate for you and your goals of gaining strength & preserving muscle on a cut, but be aware that you will not be able to progress as aggressively in a caloric deficit. However the weight resets are a built in failsafe for that as well so you should be fine. The only other thing I might watch, depending on your level of exercise tolerance is to keep an eye on your energy levels day to day using a fairly aggressive program like this in a deficit. I wouldn't combine it with too much cardio or it might be a bit much to recover from when cutting.

However when you switch back to bulking soon (as 3-4 lbs more on your cut will take a month or so), you will find your strength levels progress rapidly and this routine will work very well for you.

[lifebeckons75]

I have a hypothetical intermediate routine up that is also full body but it doesn't list progression, resets etc and includes weak point training. It was a hypothetical I did as one of my first Q&A's but I will do a couple of intermediate routines this year in videos. Honestly with your stats on squat and deads this routine is still appropriate for you and your goals of gaining strength & preserving muscle on a cut, but be aware that you will not be able to progress as aggressively in a caloric deficit. However the weight resets are a built in failsafe for that as well so you should be fine. The only other thing I might watch, depending on your level of exercise tolerance is to keep an eye on your energy levels day to day using a fairly aggressive program like this in a deficit. I wouldn't combine it with too much cardio or it might be a bit much to recover from when cutting.

However when you switch back to bulking soon (as 3-4 lbs more on your cut will take a month or so), you will find your strength levels progress rapidly and this routine will work very well for you.

Thank you for the quick reply sir!!

I get your point about not being able to progress much on a deficit. I will be mindful of that. But I will start your novice 5x5 and see how things go. I am also not very far from starting a bulk and from that point on, the progress should be better.

Any thoughts on continuing my cut? This is my first cut and I keep doubting myself as I don't want to lose any muscle. To be honest, just being at 158 lbs is a scary thing for me because I have never been this low. But I have been told by others on these forums that I can still continue to cut without losing muscle. What is your opinion?

[JasonDB]

Thank you for the quick reply sir!!

I get your point about not being able to progress much on a deficit. I will be mindful of that. But I will start your novice 5x5 and see how things go. I am also not very far from starting a bulk and from that point on, the progress should be better.

Any thoughts on continuing my cut? This is my first cut and I keep doubting myself as I don't want to lose any muscle. To be honest, just being at 158 lbs is a scary thing for me because I have never been this low. But I have been told by others on these forums that I can still continue to cut without losing muscle. What is your opinion?

You could continue to cut while retaining muscle if that is your goal... but if you really want more size there is no reason to not clean bulk soon from this point. You have visable abs so are at a good starting point for a bulk if you were inclinded to do one.

[lifebeckons75]

You could continue to cut while retaining muscle if that is your goal... but if you really want more size there is no reason to not clean bulk soon from this point. You have visable abs so are at a good starting point for a bulk if you were inclinded to do one.

Excellent! Thanks Jason!

Will also look forward to more videos, especially your intermediate 5x5 ...

[erebus197]

What you are doing is not my routine, it is similar but you've made some big changes, like taking the rows out of B, taking the chins out of A, using dumbbell shrugs (you'll outgrow the heaviest dumbbells in your gym inside of two months for shrugs on any strength based program), removing all the isos. I don't mind giving you some pointers here though.

Your strength itself will increase fairly quickly just to the nature of the program.

I ended up putting the rows back on B day. I originally just wanted to drop the arm volume, but I decided to put it back too, so I will be running your program exactly on my next workout day.

[lifebeckons75]

Jason,

I started this routine today, and have a question.

So I understand that, at its heart, this is a 3 times a week routine. However I usually lift 5 or 6 times a week, mainly because I was splitting body parts by days. I just enjoy going to the gym a lot. Sad but gym time is the highlight of my day ...

This morning I started with Workout A. I did squats, bench, rows and shrugs, and then moved to some abs work. Can I go back to the gym tomorrow and finish up the rest of my workout A (chins, hypers, skulls)?

Are there are physiological drawbacks to do this routine like this:

Monday : Workout A: big lifts (squats, bench, rows, shrugs)
Tuesday : Workout A: accessory work (skulls, hypers, chins, abs)
Wednesday: Workout B: big lifts (squats, deads, standing presses, rows)
Thursday: Workout B : accessory work (cgbp, incline curls, abs)
and so on ......

I am sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I like going to the gym 5 to 6 times a week and this will work better for me.