Russia vs Ukraine Thread V: The Fate of Humanity, Traditional Values vs Globohomo

[exxtracool]

If the Russians fire 100 missiles and 1 hits a cafe, which do you think is going to be on the news? Also, we literally cannot sit and call people terrorists while we defend Israel, Russia is fighting a much cleaner war than Israel.

israel is in gaza because hamas took it upon themselves to paraglide into a rave and rape/kill 1500 civilians. ukraine is defending itself from its neighbour that is actively trying to annex its territory and has been for over a decade because it doesnt accept that ukrainians want to shift their diplomacy to the west.


and unlike hamas, ukraine actually evacuates its civilians and doesnt deliberately hide behind them. there is no possible way you can go after hamas in gaza and NOT get civilian casualties. whether or not you support israel, i personally dont care, you still dont get to do what hamas did on oct 7th and get away with it free of charge because you then run back into your tunnels... thats not a good message to send these terrorists.

[Ronnie87]

israel is in gaza because hamas took it upon themselves to paraglide into a rave and rape/kill 1500 civilians.

Agreed, they've just gone well beyond defending themselves, they've completely disregarded humanitarian concerns and have basically gone into warcrimes/genocide territory, as agreed by the UN.

ukraine is defending itself from its neighbour that is actively trying to annex its territory and has been for over a decade because it doesnt accept that ukrainians want to shift their diplomacy to the west.

Russia would say it's defending Russian speakers who were being killed by the Ukrainian "anti terror operation" in the East, defending itself from NATO aggression, which was basically done by using the CIA and MI6 to organise a coup, plus openly training the Ukraine Armed forces, who were paying literal Nazis to fight for them, etc, etc. Russia has a lot of grounds for it's conflict too.

and unlike hamas, ukraine actually evacuates its civilians and doesnt deliberately hide behind them. there is no possible way you can go after hamas in gaza and NOT get civilian casualties. whether or not you support israel, i personally dont care, you still dont get to do what hamas did on oct 7th and get away with it free of charge because you then run back into your tunnels... thats not a good message to send these terrorists.

Of course Ukraine evacuates it's civilians, most of them want to leave the country so they're not conscripted to die in the trenches to make Western politicians and NGOs rich.

Just to be clear, Israel has a right to defend itself, but that doesn't excuse war crimes, which they are committing - in the same manner that Hamas did. You can't just starve and murder civilians at will because of a terrorist attack, isn't that obvious?

[exxtracool]

Agreed, they've just gone well beyond defending themselves, they've completely disregarded humanitarian concerns and have basically gone into warcrimes/genocide territory, as agreed by the UN.




Russia would say it's defending Russian speakers who were being killed by the Ukrainian "anti terror operation" in the East, defending itself from NATO aggression, which was basically done by using the CIA and MI6 to organise a coup, plus openly training the Ukraine Armed forces, who were paying literal Nazis to fight for them, etc, etc. Russia has a lot of grounds for it's conflict too.




Of course Ukraine evacuates it's civilians, most of them want to leave the country so they're not conscripted to die in the trenches to make Western politicians and NGOs rich.

Just to be clear, Israel has a right to defend itself, but that doesn't excuse war crimes, which they are committing - in the same manner that Hamas did. You can't just starve and murder civilians at will because of a terrorist attack, isn't that obvious?

the UN means dick all. irrelevant. how does one engage in warfare inside of gaza with the goal of completely dismantling hamas but not kill civilians in the process when hamas deliberately hides behind them? its not possible bro. the reality of guerilla warfare is unnecessary civilian deaths.

again, i dont really care about israel but i know for sure if my country was attacked by hamas like what happened on oct 7th i would certainly want my govt to do everything they could do ensure that a) it could never happen again, and b) those pieces of **** were brought to justice.


as for russia, ya they can claim that and they do claim that lol but why was there conflict in donbas to begin with? ill tell you why, because prior to that russia annexed crimea and then galvanized/supplied separatist forces inside of the donbas region.

[Evil_D]

LMFAO @ the key world "let" russian forces rape them.


Jus lmfao

Negging all clown world posts, moving forward.

[foXs]

Nothing we don’t already know, but the part about Germany is gold.

[PimpinisEasy]

israel is in gaza because hamas took it upon themselves to paraglide into a rave and rape/kill 1500 civilians. ukraine is defending itself from its neighbour that is actively trying to annex its territory and has been for over a decade because it doesnt accept that ukrainians want to shift their diplomacy to the west.


and unlike hamas, ukraine actually evacuates its civilians and doesnt deliberately hide behind them. there is no possible way you can go after hamas in gaza and NOT get civilian casualties. whether or not you support israel, i personally dont care, you still dont get to do what hamas did on oct 7th and get away with it free of charge because you then run back into your tunnels... thats not a good message to send these terrorists.

This is incredible; how to show you dont know the history and context of two wars simultaneously. Brother, analysis of geopolitics is not for you.

The root cause of Hamas fighting against Israel is the invasion and colonisation of their lands following the Balfour declaration.

The root cause of the conflict in Ukraine is the US sponsored Maidan revolution and the following subjugation of Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Donbass, which was followed by a civil war.

Interestingly both conflicts were initiated by the leading power of their day. The conflicts have been escalated by far right extremists in both the Ukrainian and Israeli governments.

The whole Hamas argument is completely disengenious, because Israel also subjugates the Palestinians in the West Bank where there is not a Hamas presence.

Oct 7th was not an escalation by Hamas, this is a response to continual massacres implemented by Israel. Reports of rape / child beheeadings / cooking Israeli children in overs have been exposed as Israeli lies.

Somehow you relate to the Israeli's; in reality you come from a Muslim country and they would do the same to you and your people.

[PimpinisEasy]

the UN means dick all. irrelevant. how does one engage in warfare inside of gaza with the goal of completely dismantling hamas but not kill civilians in the process when hamas deliberately hides behind them? its not possible bro. the reality of guerilla warfare is unnecessary civilian deaths.

again, i dont really care about israel but i know for sure if my country was attacked by hamas like what happened on oct 7th i would certainly want my govt to do everything they could do ensure that a) it could never happen again, and b) those pieces of **** were brought to justice.


as for russia, ya they can claim that and they do claim that lol but why was there conflict in donbas to begin with? ill tell you why, because prior to that russia annexed crimea and then galvanized/supplied separatist forces inside of the donbas region.

Hamas is not performing guerilla warfare in the conventional sense, it is urban combat in an area where they are completely contained and surrounded. This resembles something simialar to Stalingrad.

Hamas do not hide behind their civilians, they are all trapped in a conflict zone, where they are mercilessly slaughtered. The Israeli forces have a massive advantage because they are sponsored by the US.

What would you do if you were a Palestinian who has seen his family murdered in all the previos Israeli led slaughters and land annexations?

[PimpinisEasy]

Lol what's disingenious is you zooming in on a small region to make it seem russia made any significant progress.

Watch the maps I posted above and everyone can see the "progress" Ruzzia made in 1 year is laughable. Hence we're in a stalemate.

This war is not a stalemate. The Russians are intentionally going slow because it benefits them.

They know the Americans have a short attention span.

American war doctrine is dependant on short conflict periods. So many have watched American wars in Iraq and they think all wars should be short. In reality this war can last ten years or maybe longer.

With each passing year the ability of the west to fund Ukraine diminishes with or without the US.

[phaginator]

This war is not a stalemate. The Russians are intentionally going slow because it benefits them.

They know the Americans have a short attention span.

American war doctrine is dependant on short conflict periods. So many have watched American wars in Iraq and they think all wars should be short. In reality this war can last ten years or maybe longer.

With each passing year the ability of the west to fund Ukraine diminishes with or without the US.

Lol, the west hasn't even started yet. Do you know how little of the western GDP goes to Ukraine? And even that is enough to out fund Ruzzia who is in a total war economy now.

Also Russia's industry is too small to outproduce the west and Russia's soviet stocks are dwindling fast.

[PimpinisEasy]

Lol, the west hasn't even started yet. Do you know how little of the western GDP goes to Ukraine? And even that is enough to out fund Ruzzia who is in a total war economy now.

Also Russia's industry is too small to outproduce the west and Russia's soviet stocks are dwindling fast.

The economic situation is beyond your intelectual faculties. To truly understand the economic comparrison yyou need to appreciate:

- Production capacity (Russia)
- Structure of manufacturing economy (Russia)
- Sovereign debt levels (Russia)
- Economic structure of nations (Russia)
- Raw materials of nation (Russia)
- Ability to convert civilian production to war economy (Russia)
- Military expenditure (Western)
- The relative production costs between nations (Russia)

The West may have more GDP, but it is primarily service sector and they have a lack of heavy manufacturing; the skills in western economies also do not support these industries. They also have a private economic model, which does not incentivise the production of lower margin military equipment and it is difficult to re-allocate it into military production. Furthermore, they do not have easy access to energy and raw materials. Western nations are deeply indebted and do not have as much money to spend as you think (essentially they have to borrow to spend). The cost to produce military equipment in the West is signficantly higher than Russia and allies. Western nations live on a tight rope of being heavily indebted and managing debt so they're interest rates don't increase.

Russia on the contrary has a very low sovereign debt level, they can easily convert their heavy industries into military industry, they have nationalised industries so they don't have to respond to market forces, Russia has massive and plentiful energy and raw materials, Russia benefits from lower cost production. America could pend 1B and Russia could achieve the same result for 100M.

Furthermore Russia benefits from relationships with Iran and North Korea, whom both specialise in Artillery (NK) drones (Iran) and missiles (Iran). All three technologies are key to execute a ground war - whereas western weaponry follows a doctrine that does not suit a ground war.


You will doubt my words - but you'll see the result on the battlefield.

[MotorcycleBrah]

Lol, the west hasn't even started yet. Do you know how little of the western GDP goes to Ukraine? And even that is enough to out fund Ruzzia who is in a total war economy now.

Also Russia's industry is too small to outproduce the west and Russia's soviet stocks are dwindling fast.

Russia is about 10% GDP spending for defense budget. Same as soviet union before it collapsed. Also they're losing more men and material than they can produce. A Long war is not something that benefits the ruskies.

[PimpinisEasy]

Russia is about 10% GDP spending for defense budget. Same as soviet union before it collapsed. Also they're losing more men and material than they can produce. A Long war is not something that benefits the ruskies.

lol I think you fundamentally you misunderstand this conflict. You think this is Russia versus the West. In reality this is a proxy war between the US and China. You think Russia will collapse but they're supported by China, which is the world's largest economy and has the greatest production capacity.

Russia wont collapse. Ukraine almost certainly will.

[MotorcycleBrah]

lol I think you fundamentally you misunderstand this conflict. You think this is Russia versus the West. In reality this is a proxy war between the US and China. You think Russia will collapse but they're supported by China, which is the world's largest economy and has the greatest production capacity.

Russia wont collapse. Ukraine almost certainly will.

China ist all about profit and business. Funding russia in the long run is not something that profits them. They're milking the russian cow for cheap gas and oil, selling the ruskies short as they're doing it right now. They know the real profit is in trade with the west (US and EU).

[exxtracool]

This is incredible; how to show you dont know the history and context of two wars simultaneously. Brother, analysis of geopolitics is not for you.

The root cause of Hamas fighting against Israel is the invasion and colonisation of their lands following the Balfour declaration.

The root cause of the conflict in Ukraine is the US sponsored Maidan revolution and the following subjugation of Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Donbass, which was followed by a civil war.

Interestingly both conflicts were initiated by the leading power of their day. The conflicts have been escalated by far right extremists in both the Ukrainian and Israeli governments.

The whole Hamas argument is completely disengenious, because Israel also subjugates the Palestinians in the West Bank where there is not a Hamas presence.

Oct 7th was not an escalation by Hamas, this is a response to continual massacres implemented by Israel. Reports of rape / child beheeadings / cooking Israeli children in overs have been exposed as Israeli lies.

Somehow you relate to the Israeli's; in reality you come from a Muslim country and they would do the same to you and your people.

A series of iranbrah delusional interpretations of historical events.



“The Maidan uprising dates from the failure of the Vilnius Summit, at which Ukraine was to sign a Union Agreement with the European Union but it did not happen immediately. Protests in the central Maidan of Kyiv, which had started in November 2013 peaked in February 2014, with armed clashes in the square between demonstrators and Berkut police, resulting ultimately in the deaths of around 100 people – most from snipers firing from the rooftops of nearby buildings – and the removal of the president, Viktor Yanukovych.”



Thats what happened. The ukrainians wanted EU integration because no **** they did, and russia wouldnt allow that because ukraine shifting its diplomacy to the west would be a massive loss for russia.




As for israel and palestine, if you can’t bring yourself to at least acknowledge that hamas is a terrorist group then idk what to tell you iranbrah. When did the palestinians even hold that land? Before this it was the british, then before them it was the turkish ottomans, then before them it was the byzantines, and so on and so forth… what claim do they have that supersedes the jews claim to the region?

The sooner these palestinians learn to live with the jews like jordan and egypt have done the better it will be for them. Youre not going to get rid of israel as a state at this point, its a pipedream.

[PimpinisEasy]

China ist all about profit and business. Funding russia in the long run is not something that profits them. They're milking the russian cow for cheap gas and oil, selling the ruskies short as they're doing it right now. They know the real profit is in trade with the west (US and EU).

Incorrect. They know that Russia is tying up the Americans and if Russia falls the Americans can focus all their attention on China.

The goal of China is to generate global growth and diversity their trade with new markets; with the eventual goal of becoming the main global power. They have seen what happened to Russia and they don't trust the Americans

The Chinese are smart and take a long term view. They know that the west shutting out many nations creates a golden opportunity to build power. They can gain the allegiance of nations for cheap and a lot of those nations will grow in power.

Your take on Chinas policy is just a projection of how you see the world. Only Europe and the US are important.

[miscinbro]

Pimpin just gets more and more unhinged by the day.

[PimpinisEasy]

A series of iranbrah delusional interpretations of historical events.



“The Maidan uprising dates from the failure of the Vilnius Summit, at which Ukraine was to sign a Union Agreement with the European Union but it did not happen immediately. Protests in the central Maidan of Kyiv, which had started in November 2013 peaked in February 2014, with armed clashes in the square between demonstrators and Berkut police, resulting ultimately in the deaths of around 100 people – most from snipers firing from the rooftops of nearby buildings – and the removal of the president, Viktor Yanukovych.”



Thats what happened. The ukrainians wanted EU integration because no **** they did, and russia wouldnt allow that because ukraine shifting its diplomacy to the west would be a massive loss for russia.




As for israel and palestine, if you can’t bring yourself to at least acknowledge that hamas is a terrorist group then idk what to tell you iranbrah. When did the palestinians even hold that land? Before this it was the british, then before them it was the turkish ottomans, then before them it was the byzantines, and so on and so forth… what claim do they have that supersedes the jews claim to the region?

The sooner these palestinians learn to live with the jews like jordan and egypt have done the better it will be for them. Youre not going to get rid of israel as a state at this point, its a pipedream.

The maidan revolution was a result of western NGOs funding subversive groups in Ukraine.
Which is why Georgia is now bringing in foreign agents act where groups have to declare foreign funding. Of course there are huge protests from such groups.

Ukrainians didn't vote for EU integration. Western Ukrainians wanted EU integration, Eastern Ukrainians did not. The result was a revolution and the following subjugation of eastern Ukrainians. Whether they would have been better off, I think it's clear to see they definitely are not better off.

The Russians care about this issue more than America and they will keep going for longer. When you're neighbour is a military superpower, it's best to not upset them.

Hamas are not a terrorist group. Israel is a terrorist group analogous to ISIS. There's literally no difference between ISIS and Israel other than religion. Both are religious zealot groups who travelled from across the world to capture land and establish a religious/ethnic state. The tactics are equally ruthless.

Hamas are freedom fighters fighting against the subjugation of their people. Despite your nonsense description of who ruled that land, they are the indigenous people.


I disagree, Israel won't last another hundred years. Just like the crusaders they will be defeated and Israel will be removed from the region.
It's simple Israel's position is dependant on the US supporting them and the US is a proportionally declining power, economically and militarily.

This war itself is a huge crisis for Israel. They are getting owned and facing crisis after crisis. They're in a horrible position.

[PimpinisEasy]

Pimpin just gets more and more unhinged by the day.

Truly I am the the only sane one among an insane asylum, I am genuinely shocked at how ruthless you all are.

I think Americans have become drunk on power and think it's normal to subjugate people they seem as lesser. You are callous and hateful.

Trying to gaslight me really won't work. You're the ones with the issues, I think you need to get help.

[exxtracool]

so a group that paraglides into a festival to shoot dead in cold blood and rape fleeing civilians then proceed to take hostages back into their hiding tunnels are NOT terrorists? okay bro. lol.


and western NGO's? i thought it was the CIA that usurped the ukrainian govt? you guys need to get your conspiracies in order.


obviously the explanation that ukrainian people who were polled as favourable to eu integration would be upset that their leader backed out of a eu deal for russian $$ is too far out there... better blame CIA black ops, more logical.

[miscinbro]

Truly I am the the only sane one among an insane asylum, I am genuinely shocked at how ruthless you all are.

I think Americans have become drunk on power and think it's normal to subjugate people they seem as lesser. You are callous and hateful.

Trying to gaslight me really won't work. You're the ones with the issues, I think you need to get help.

How am I arguing for any of this? WTF are you even on about.

[Ronnie87]

Hamas are not a terrorist group.

You have some good points but this is absolutely crazy. I can agree that Israel is committing warcrimes, but whatever bad things you say about Israel you have to acknowledge Hamas deliberately targeted and killed over 1,000 civilians, which was an act of terror.

[Muscle2021]

You have some good points but this is absolutely crazy. I can agree that Israel is committing warcrimes, but whatever bad things you say about Israel you have to acknowledge Hamas deliberately targeted and killed over 1,000 civilians, which was an act of terror.

I don't disagree but is what Hamas does worse than Israel dropping bombs on little kids?
Israel already killed many more kids.

It just bothers me that an AK or suicide vest is terrorism but an F16 dropping bombs on kids is more like regular war?

[exxtracool]

You have some good points but this is absolutely crazy. I can agree that Israel is committing warcrimes, but whatever bad things you say about Israel you have to acknowledge Hamas deliberately targeted and killed over 1,000 civilians, which was an act of terror.

like what good points? i dont see any. its pretty obvious that throughout the last almost 100 years of the jews and arabs going at it, both have had points of blame. but the underlying issue is and always has been that israel exists at all, well that ship has sailed they had 2 wars to make their point and lost both of them. again states like egypt and jordan have accepted that the only way forward is to negotiate and learn to accept the reality that israel isnt going anywhere, the Palestinians need to do the same thing and take an offer of gaza and whatever portion of west bank for permanent peace.

[BotDetector]

I gotta admit, Dirka brah is the DUMBEST poster I have seen in a long time. It has to be some chitty AI....

[miscinbro]

I gotta admit, Dirka brah is the DUMBEST poster I have seen in a long time. It has to be some chitty AI....

That’s sort of what I’m thinking. That or like some weird experiment in his head about how far he can say nutty things. Or something … at this point I think it’s more likely there is something else going on than just the r/p being weird.

[miscinbro]

… the Palestinians need to do the same thing and take an offer of gaza and whatever portion of west bank for permanent peace.

I think they would be totally happy to have their own state. And to me that seems like the only solution. That or Israel goes full genocide mode.

[PimpinisEasy]

so a group that paraglides into a festival to shoot dead in cold blood and rape fleeing civilians then proceed to take hostages back into their hiding tunnels are NOT terrorists? okay bro. lol.


and western NGO's? i thought it was the CIA that usurped the ukrainian govt? you guys need to get your conspiracies in order.


obviously the explanation that ukrainian people who were polled as favourable to eu integration would be upset that their leader backed out of a eu deal for russian $$ is too far out there... better blame CIA black ops, more logical.

1. Hamas did not target a music festival, they were surprised when they encountered it.

2 The actions of soldiers do not dictate whether something is a terrorist group, otherwise we could claim every military is terrorist on the behaviour of their worst actors.

3. Israel is a militarised society, a lot of the people you claims are civilians are in fact soldiers.

4. A large number of deaths on Oct 7th was down to Israeli responders shooting everything in sight.

5. A lot of your claims are unverified and have been exposed as false including rape, beheaded babies, cooked babies and the lost goes on.

Your asymmetrical criticism of hamas does not wash with me, within this conflict and across the whole extended conflict the Israelis have inflicted significantly more civilian deaths and injuries. Video evidence shows them intentionally targeting civilians.

With that said, they also kill Hamas. The men who fight with Hamas have watched their families be brutally murdered, they didn't ask for this, they are standing up for their people. They are also victims of Israel's aggression and deserve sympathy just like civilians.

The extent of Israel barbarity extends to their civilian population who even protest and destroy food aid. In Nazi Germany the people were shocked and disgusted when they learned about concentration camps. In Israel they destroy food aid to a starving population. It's an unprecedented level of hatred.

Your ridiculous pro-Israel bullchit won't wash with me. The irony is your people are not so different from the Palestinians and I'm sure your typical Israeli wouldn't think any less of wiping them out as they do Palestinians.

[PimpinisEasy]

You have some good points but this is absolutely crazy. I can agree that Israel is committing warcrimes, but whatever bad things you say about Israel you have to acknowledge Hamas deliberately targeted and killed over 1,000 civilians, which was an act of terror.

If someone targeted your home while you were out shopping, killed your wife and three daughters, when you returned you literally found the corpse of one of your daughters with her head broken.

how would you respond?

I am interested to understand how you think these people should respond, with a debate? By enduring it and hoping for peace?

[Ronnie87]

1. Hamas did not target a music festival, they were surprised when they encountered it.

????????

****ing lmao

Oh my god, that music festival in the desert came out of nowhere boys, it's headed right for us, better start shooting and kidnapping all these innocent teenagers???? Do you actually even believe the chit you're typing?

[Ronnie87]

If someone targeted your home while you were out shopping, killed your wife and three daughters, when you returned you literally found the corpse of one of your daughters with her head broken.

how would you respond??

Not by murdering teenagers at a music festival because I'm not a ****ing savage. I'd absolutely target the military and government, but not civilians at a music festival? How are you justifying this? Seek help, srs