Gaspari Glycofuse: hype or science?

[AlecGaspari]

I suppose I could reiterate what I said at the bottom of page 2 but with everyone having their dicks out and all these rulers about I'd dont think it would get noticed...again

So I suppose I'll keep it short (lol unintentional pun) it looks like reps insulting a board member for his opinion (in which he has valid concerns) which technically is against the rules of bodybuilding.com, not that Im a huge rule follower just thought I'd point that out. Also instead of keeping an open mind most of you jumping on him seem like hard headed ego-maniacs. He cant have an opinion on it because he's not an endurance athlete even though its clearly marketed towards weight-lfters too. Sure.. except that makes zero fawking sense lol. Oh wait he doesnt have an avatar...he must be a fat-ass nerd living in his moms basement. Please be more cliche and willfully ignorant of the fact there could be several reasons not to have an avi up. In the old days you'd get neg trained for that ****.

I'll probably end up getting flamed too, mob mentality at its finest. No dog in this race lmfao..yea because reps on this board dont send eachother free product samples or even whole tubs all the time gimme a break. Or Hell seems someone got a rep gig outta this..hmmm.

And talk about deflection you guys have made this about everything but the facts...text book ad hominem attacks. The fact is the difference between Glycofuse, dextrose, a mixed carb source, ect ect hasnt really been clinically tested yet in trained humans thats been published...and if/when it is the results would be largely negligible and when that happens it comes down to price, taste, and convenience...if you happen to like the taste (which I'm sure its awesome considering the flavor systems used for SP Max and Aminolast taste great) and you have the money and you find it makes your athletic life easier then go for it. But theres the other side of the coin too people. If you cant afford it, dont care about taste, and those two things alone make it inconvenient for you then there are cheaper just as or almost as effective carb sources for you out there.

So I guess I will reiterate after all...whats wrong with putting all the info out there? People have probably learned some things about various carbs and carb timing through reading this thread. Most people can sift out the bs and decide for themselves. But instead of a healthy debate between intelligent individuals its been degraded into a dick measuring contest about who is right and who is wrong. And everyone hates being wrong. Oh noes.

but there has been

[JoelMcClain]

but there has been

post them then show that the differences arent negligible and subjective

[Curiosus]

but there has been

No.

And BUMP:

Anyone actually read the fulltext of this paper? Int J Sports Med 2005; 26(4): 314-319 The methodogy and discussion section are so biased and flawed it's not even funny.

Not that all this mental masturbation actually matters, but it's funny that the only human study is not impressive at all.


Oh and sucrose had a faster GET than HBCD. Gatorade FTW!

So basically Gaspari claims the only benefit of HBCD is faster GET (to prevent cramping) but this paper shows a sucrose solution has even faster GET than HBCD.

At least BK did know how to formulate products.

[GBROS]

Gaspari products are as decent as their reps

[phosphos]

Can we have an argument that involves JUST science, as demanded by the posters above? They do make a point.

Not some long-winded anecdote that is an obvious 'appeal to authority'. I could care less about MMA fighters or Big-name events.

[ferfe1234]

No.

And BUMP:



So basically Gaspari claims the only benefit of HBCD is faster GET (to prevent cramping) but this paper shows a sucrose solution has even faster GET than HBCD.

At least BK did know how to formulate products.

What's the PMID?

I agree with Joel on his post. I came here to have an objective discussion and was essentially "run out" of the thread by hostility (for which no Gaspari rep is responsible).

[rhizome]

what's the pmid?

I agree with joel on his post. I came here to have an objective discussion and was essentially "run out" of the thread by hostility (for which no gaspari rep is responsible).

pmid: 15900642

[ferfe1234]

pmid: 15900642

Excellent, thanks. I will sit down and read it now before giving my best Dunning-Kruger impression.

[NO HYPE]

What's the PMID?

full text: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article.../10_4_428/_pdf

[djansen]

You misundsrstand: regardless of the thread content, and your or my opinion, every time this gets bumped, gaspari wins. It's a free, and unintentional, and marketing coup.

Been following this thread for a while, and if this happens to be the case it makes me a little sad inside.

[phosphos]

Ok. Problems.

1. The authors of the study work for a company, Ezaki Glico, which produces HCBD goods. I don't think I need to state why such a fact damages the credibility of the study in question.

2. There are only two studies done on the compound. Guess who the authors are? Same group of people. The other study was done on mice.

3. As stated, the methodology and analysis portion of the study are extremely unsatisfactory. Where do I begin? They recruited only seven subjects. You cannot infer causality, be it from an internal or external standpoint, using a sample size that small. They also used a subjective likert-scale test in order to measure the perceived flatulence and belching of of the subjects. These aren't hypothetical constructs! You do not need to defer to subjective measurements in order to test physical/observable phenomena.

What makes this worse is that the p value used, to scale the significance of the test, was put at just around 5%, in order to posit some semblance of significance that variations in individual characteristics could not explain.

Referring to the physical measurements of the subjects however (height, weight so on), one has great reason to posit that the variable effect (in reference to exercise output) as shown were brought upon by these differences. I mean come on, some subjects weighed as much as 10 kg greater than their peers, that is a 22 lb variation. Strong confounding variable.

You'd think given the small sample size that they could find individuals who at least weighed and stood at the same height. My hypothesis? They pulled employees out from a production line or from an office. The thing was handled very sloppily, and this is something that would not stand in front of the scrutiny of any competent researcher.

[NO HYPE]

The authors of the study work for a company, Ezaki Glico, which produces HCBD goods. I don't think I need to state why such a fact damages the credibility of the study in question.

Here's the other Ezaki excerpt that Gaspari's formulator bases his statements on. I especially enjoyed the absence of a citaion altogether.

a study of human subjects, in which 7 swimmers (20.0 ± 0.3 year-old) who participated in the Japan
Championship in 2003 ingested each 1.5 g/kg HBCD, glucose, or water (as a control), just before swimming. After the interval training (at VO2max 75 %; swimming for 5 min and rest for 3 min), swimming time to exhaustion (at VO2max 90 %) was measured in a current-flow pool. The percentage of swimming time to exhaustion was 163.1 % for HBCD, 91.6 % for glucose comparing with that for water (as 100 %), respectively, in which HBCD showed significant difference from water (Student’s t-test, p < 0.05). http://195.37.231.82/publications/pa.../8201x0269.pdf

[PuZo]

Here's the other Ezaki excerpt that Gaspari's formulator bases his statements on. I especially enjoyed the absence of a citaion altogether.

Does that mean they used water as baseline? Did they actually conclude that water > glucose in regards to swimming time to exhaustion?

[phosphos]

What I don't understand is the lack of studies on Gaspari's part. Referring to their official website of course.

All NO HYPE is asking is this: why the lack of studies? And why did you guys wait till someone called you out before you started posting studies?

Regardless, your apprehension is pretty understandable: the credibility of the study posted is in tatters.

[phosphos]

Does that mean they used water as baseline? Did they actually conclude that water > glucose in regards to swimming time to exhaustion?

Yes. Water fared better than glucose in the study posted apparently.

Their explanation for this? The consumption of glucose brought upon an insulin spike that rendered the subjects hypoglycemic.

Seriously? Seriously? Seriously?

[|ceman]

What I don't understand is the lack of studies on Gaspari's part. Referring to their official website of course.

All NO HYPE is asking is this: why the lack of studies? And why did you guys wait till someone called you out before you started posting studies?

Regardless, your apprehension is pretty understandable: the credibility of the study posted is in tatters.

The cruel irony here is that Gaspari is one of the few companies to even make an attempt to correlate their formulations with research. So many companies out there simply toss together some popular bro-ingredients regardless of the relevant research and add a triple dose of marketing hype. How many companies are offering preworkouts with AAKG and some form of creatine (maybe even CEE) and just blowing it up with hype? Worthy targets? Nope; let's blast the marketing that Gaspari is doing on a simple carb supplement instead. Sounds about par for the course around here anymore.

[phosphos]

The cruel irony here is that Gaspari is one of the few companies to even make an attempt to correlate their formulations with research. So many companies out there simply toss together some popular bro-ingredients regardless of the relevant research and add a triple dose of marketing hype. How many companies are offering preworkouts with AAKG and some form of creatine (maybe even CEE) and just blowing it up with hype? Worthy targets? Nope; let's blast the marketing that Gaspari is doing on a simple carb supplement instead. Sounds about par for the course around here anymore.

I won't bother responding to this. Seriously. Stick to the science.

And no, as shown by the findings in this thread, it seems that Gaspari hasn't been doing their research regarding HCBD supplements.

Giving you the opportunity to disprove this though. All of the challenged claims are stated above. Feel free to prove us wrong.

[ferfe1234]

Well I didn't get around to reading the study as the first 6 sentences put me to sleep, but thank you no hype. I shall read it tomorrow when I'm fresh.

I'm not particularly interested in this discussion, as the obvious was stated pages ago: it's a simple carb, and it will behave as such, with mild and insignificant differences versus dextrose. I do, however, enjoy discussion stimulating threads, so I'd encourage no hype to make another one with a more "interesting" and thought-provoking basis. For instance, elucidating the MOA of testosurge would be awesome.

[|ceman]

I won't bother responding to this. Seriously. Stick to the science.

And no, as shown by the findings in this thread, it seems that Gaspari hasn't been doing their research regarding HCBD supplements.

Giving you the opportunity to disprove this though. All of the challenged claims are stated above. Feel free to prove us wrong.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm something/someone that I'm not. While I understand the science, I prefer not to get into debates about it, as there are others on here (on both sides of the argument) that are more expert at it than I am. So don't expect any scientific retorts from me - not because I'm acknowledging that any counter point does or does not have merit, but only because others are better qualified to debate those topics. I'm no pubmed ninja and I won't pretend to be a doctor or something else online just to impress strangers.



OP's original argument has been with the way that Glycofuse was marketed (ie - post #2). Since page one it's taken a meandering and circuitous path covering a litany of OP's beefs with Gaspari Nutrition and defending why this company deserves his focused and darn near exclusive attention. He has further extended his attacks to include libel by disparaging and inferring unethical business practices and motives.

My points are that the OP is biased and is making a mountain out of a molehill. Any one of the products on bb.com right now that use AAKG claiming to elicit a pump from it are far more worthy targets for 'hype' and 'bad formulation', but OP ignores them to come at Gaspari. Yes, he has an axe to grind.

Yes, part of my role as a company rep is to defend Gaspari Nutrition when it is unfairly and inappropriately represented.

[PuZo]

I'm not going to pretend that I'm something/someone that I'm not. While I understand the science, I prefer not to get into debates about it, as there are others on here (on both sides of the argument) that are more expert at it than I am. So don't expect any scientific retorts from me - not because I'm acknowledging that any counter point does or does not have merit, but only because others are better qualified to debate those topics. I'm no pubmed ninja and I won't pretend to be a doctor or something else online just to impress strangers.



OP's original argument has been with the way that Glycofuse was marketed (ie - post #2). Since page one it's taken a meandering and circuitous path covering a litany of OP's beefs with Gaspari Nutrition and defending why this company deserves his focused and darn near exclusive attention. He has further extended his attacks to include libel by disparaging and inferring unethical business practices and motives.

My points are that the OP is biased and is making a mountain out of a molehill. Any one of the products on bb.com right now that use AAKG claiming to elicit a pump from it are far more worthy targets for 'hype' and 'bad formulation', but OP ignores them to come at Gaspari. Yes, he has an axe to grind.

Yes, part of my role as a company rep is to defend Gaspari Nutrition when it is unfairly and inappropriately represented.

I'm pretty sure NO HYPE has made a thread about arginine, cee, what have you. It wouldn't make sense for him to make a new thread each time an arginine-based product is released.

[MillerTime07]

Has this been released yet? I didn't see it for sale on bb.com.

[Nailbomb9]

Gaspari products are as decent as their reps

I don't always rep, but when I do, I rep Gaspari haters!!

[phosphos]

To be fair, HCBD is a relatively new supplement. Seems like it warrants a thorough examination.

It just so happens that Gaspari is the most prominent supplier right now.

[PuZo]

To be fair, HCBD is a relatively new supplement. Seems like it warrants a thorough examination.

It just so happens that Gaspari is the most prominent supplier right now.

They aren't the first though. It seems BioTest used it in a few of their products earlier this summer.

[NO HYPE]

Worthy targets? Nope; let's blast the marketing that Gaspari is doing on a simple carb supplement instead.

As if you guys would consider any call out to be a worthy target. I don't supose you'd consider my call out of vassotropin to be a "worthy target" either?

So despite Gaspari's previous statements about the rest of the carb products being bogus crap that don't do anything except deliver false hopes.... suddenly Glycofuse is just a simple carb supplement like the rest of them eh?

[NO HYPE]

The cruel irony here is that Gaspari is one of the few companies to even make an attempt to correlate their formulations with research

Can we stop with the holier than thou attitude already? Why should Gaspari care what the other companies are doing anyways? Your not the only company who referrs to research when formulating products --> by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, if you guys really did your homework on this one [or assotropin], you'd have some valid scientific counterpoints presented already.

[NO HYPE]

They aren't the first though. It seems BioTest used it in a few of their products earlier this summer.

You wouldn't think so by the way Rich was talking in that Lobliner video, as he mentioned that it was exclusive to Gaspari.

[NO HYPE]

Ok. Problems.

1. The authors of the study work for a company, Ezaki Glico, which produces HCBD goods. I don't think I need to state why such a fact damages the credibility of the study in question.

2. There are only two studies done on the compound. Guess who the authors are? Same group of people. The other study was done on mice.

3. As stated, the methodology and analysis portion of the study are extremely unsatisfactory. Where do I begin? They recruited only seven subjects. You cannot infer causality, be it from an internal or external standpoint, using a sample size that small. They also used a subjective likert-scale test in order to measure the perceived flatulence and belching of of the subjects. These aren't hypothetical constructs! You do not need to defer to subjective measurements in order to test physical/observable phenomena.

What makes this worse is that the p value used, to scale the significance of the test, was put at just around 5%, in order to posit some semblance of significance that variations in individual characteristics could not explain.

Referring to the physical measurements of the subjects however (height, weight so on), one has great reason to posit that the variable effect (in reference to exercise output) as shown were brought upon by these differences. I mean come on, some subjects weighed as much as 10 kg greater than their peers, that is a 22 lb variation. Strong confounding variable.

You'd think given the small sample size that they could find individuals who at least weighed and stood at the same height. My hypothesis? They pulled employees out from a production line or from an office. The thing was handled very sloppily, and this is something that would not stand in front of the scrutiny of any competent researcher.

Very sloppy indeed. In the discussion, they attributed the occurrence of carb-induced GI discomfort to exercise-induced reduction in blood flow & prolonged transit time within the stomach. They didn't even partially attribute it to the oversaturation of SGLT1 transporters and/or the possibility of hepatic lactate release into systemic circulation. Great post BTW.

[deserusan]

What I don't understand is the lack of studies on Gaspari's part. Referring to their official website of course.

All NO HYPE is asking is this: why the lack of studies? And why did you guys wait till someone called you out before you started posting studies?

Regardless, your apprehension is pretty understandable: the credibility of the study posted is in tatters.

We aren't apprehensive, this is just a no win discussion for us. The issue is that many new forum members always pop up when NO HYPE start blasting us to discredit research. Glico is a legit company and has been selling cyclic dextrin to Japanese athletes for quite awhile now. You guys want studies, we post them, and then everyone attempts to invalidate them and gets mad because we don't spend countless hours arguing on here. We're here to help and answer questions, but we aren't here to address the concerns of know brand haters and "new" members who appear with obvious axe to grind. We're in a no win situation. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[|ceman]

As if you guys would consider any call out to be a worthy target. I don't supose you'd consider my call out of vassotropin to be a "worthy target" either?

So despite Gaspari's previous statements about the rest of the carb products being bogus crap that don't do anything except deliver false hopes.... suddenly Glycofuse is just a simple carb supplement like the rest of them eh?

Stop putting words in my mouth, I don't like the taste of your bull****.

I didn't say Glycofuse was just like the rest of the products in the market.

I said "simple carb supplement" in the context of a simple (as in uncomplicated) formulation. This is not a kitchen sink formulation, but rather a few select ingredients.




This is an example of the kind of athlete that benefits from Glycofuse:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/glycofuse

Training from the inside out
Without Gaspari I’d run out of gas, sparring. I train 2-3 times a day. Today I felt great during my sparring class. As others ran out of gas I got stronger and gained the upper hand.



I recently added several products by Gaspari Nutrition to my workout routine.

Aminolast to help me perform and recover as well as Myofusion Probiotic for my protein supplement to help build strength.

A couple weeks in and I already notice a difference in my training. I had already been training hard before I introduced Gaspari to the routine but since I began I have seen a jump in my stamina, overall burst strength and willingness to push harder.



I ran a half marathon Saturday and then followed it up with some bouldering. Sunday I went for a 2 hour hike and today I was up at 5am for a gym session followed by 90 mins of JiuJitsu for lunch.

Without the aid of Gaspari’s products there is NO WAY I’d be able to keep up this pace at 33 years of age. I have a very healthy, raw, clean diet to help maintain this “inside out” training mentality.

I believe that with the right fuel I can unleash my body’s potential and acheive greater results.

I have exactly 1 month before I toe-the-line at the Vernon Spartan Race and I intend to go for it. I am running to compete not just complete this time and I feel more and more confident with Gaspari as a foundation for my diet.

Aminolast tastes great and since I began having it before and after my workouts I haven’t had one single day where I suffered from DOMS.

Myofusion Probiotic does two things for me. It helps me rebuild the muscles I breakdown as well as supports a healthy digestive track and immune system. The best part is it tastes so great it’s like drinking dessert.



Well I have 3 weeks left to train then it’s all about the rest before the big day so I’ll be kicking it into high gear now.

I’ll report back in a couple weeks with results.

Disclaimer: Gaspari Nutrition did NOT pay me to write this nor did they give me supplements in exchange. I am a fan and a customer.