The New Christian Thread

[HalleluYAH]

I didn't want to start picking on mega-churches because there could very well be Christians here with a very strong faith that attend a mega-church. But I do agree with you. That and mega-churches present a bloodless, sin free cross. They steer away from words like sin, salvation and repentance. But they never forget tithing though.
You have to show people that they need a savior, by showing there sin. By revealing there nature and helping them see the fault within themselves.

You are going to make people feel uncomfortable when they have to look at there sin, but this is a necessary step to realize you need Christ. Mega-churches (some) avoid this because it will drop attendance and may even upset some of the parishioners to the point that they get angry.

I was told a story once relating to this.

Picture a blind man walking toward a cliff. A person comes up to the blind man and says, “Listen to this, I have something beautiful and sweet for you to listen too. The man puts headphones on the blind man and the blind man says, “Your right, this is beautiful and sweet.” Then starts walking again toward the cliff.

The Mega-Church represents the man with a message and the blind man represents a lost soul.
The mega church preaches sweet easy and nice things to the lost soul. This was bad in that the lost soul was never given a warning that he was heading for a cliff (hell) and the mega-church did not try to steer him away from hell and toward Christ by showing him his sin. But now the lost soul is deaf to any more warnings because he believes he is heading in the right direction.

Many times the only thing taught in a large church is adoration of God and Christ and that he saved us. But the message of need, salvation, repentance and sin were never explained. Now the lost soul is still on the same road without knowing his sin, his need of repentance and a savior. He is also deaf to any warnings because he has faith that he is going to heaven because he attends church.

I hope I explained that like I wanted. Now this is not always the case, but it’s a growing trend in Christainity.

TRUTH^^^

Brothers, I am have been struggling with this topic for somoe time now. I especially find it agonozing each time, immediatley after worship, but before the sermon of course, they proceed with call the ushers forward with the tithe buckets. My wife and I tithe 10% off our gross pay "religously", but why do they feel the need to pass the baskets around each Sunday? Where is the faith in that??? Put a tithe basket in the back of the building so we can tithe on our way in our out.

I am gonig to share a dream I had the night before last, coincidenatally enough. I dreamt that I was in our "church" and when they passed around the bucket I questioned "why?" they were passing it aroudn. I proceeded to speak out against this rpactice and challenge their faith. Then, the next memory of the dream I can recall we the building was being burned up. I remember many of the pastors in this church accusing me of lighting the building on fire. It was almost nightmarish in a sense. I, of course, did not start the fire. There it is for whatever it's worth.

[Powerbuilt]

TRUTH^^^

Brothers, I am have been struggling with this topic for somoe time now. I especially find it agonozing each time, immediatley after worship, but before the sermon of course, they proceed with call the ushers forward with the tithe buckets. My wife and I tithe 10% off our gross pay "religously", but why do they feel the need to pass the baskets around each Sunday? Where is the faith in that??? Put a tithe basket in the back of the building so we can tithe on our way in our out.

I am gonig to share a dream I had the night before last, coincidenatally enough. I dreamt that I was in our "church" and when they passed around the bucket I questioned "why?" they were passing it aroudn. I proceeded to speak out against this rpactice and challenge their faith. Then, the next memory of the dream I can recall we the building was being burned up. I remember many of the pastors in this church accusing me of lighting the building on fire. It was almost nightmarish in a sense. I, of course, did not start the fire. There it is for whatever it's worth.

A few observations if I may..

Tithing is not needed for salvation..
Peter 1:18-19: "For as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of the Messiah (Christ), as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: "

What is Tithing? 10% of my money to a church?
Christians are to focus on giving to those in need.
Mk. 12:31 “And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these”
Gal. 6:2“Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” .
The principle is to help others, especially the less fortunate brethren. Tithing is not only giving to the church, but giving to the homeless, needy, elderly and less fortunate.

TRUTH^^^

Brothers, I am have been struggling with this topic for somoe time now. I especially find it agonozing each time, immediately after worship, but before the sermon of course, they proceed with call the ushers forward with the tithe buckets. My wife and I tithe 10% off our gross pay "religiously", but why do they feel the need to pass the baskets around each Sunday? Where is the faith in that??? Put a tithe basket in the back of the building so we can tithe on our way in our out.

Are you feeling like they are requiring you to do something that is not mandatory, like it cheapens your "sacrifice"? Maybe you feel your being robbed of your eternal reward because they are forcing you to give a gift. If you are forced, then it makes it no longer a gift. Or is it you feel like salvation or the message of Christ is being sold at a price. Instead of giving a "thank you" at the end of the service you are shown a price tag during the service.
This may even make the less fortunate who came thirsting for Gods word, feel uncomfortable and not welcome because they could not give.

Whatever your reason present them to your church's elders. Explain why this bothers you. Also be patient and meek. Handing around the basket is a tradition that began a very long time ago, they may not realize that they are making you or others feel that way. Don't be afraid to ask. They are your family, but also don't ask with forcefulness. They may have just passed it around because they though it would be easiest and they actually had the best of intensions. Always approach such things with the , “I could be wrong” attitude.

Keep in mind though, 10% does not have to be put to the church. Some could go to a homeless man for food, a bible for a lost soul, a few hours of your time to a soup kitchen or elderly home. The tree of righteousness has many branches brother..

[JosephMomma]

By your standards, no one here is eligable to have the holy spirit simply because we are not homeless or have material goods (other than you ofcourse).

you don't understand yet...everything I say is in the bible...

not my standards...GOD's standards...

and you don't have to stay homeless...I was and am not any more...
(Paul lived in a rented house in Rome for two years conclusion to Acts of the Apostles)...but I did lose everything like Jesus said was necessary to come to him...BUT YOU GET EVERYTHING YOU LOSE BACK 100 FOLD (Mark 10:29)

so sell your stuff and give it to the poor in secret

[JosephMomma]

What does the Word say about strife?

had to answer uber negativereps

[HalleluYAH]

This may even make the less fortunate who came thirsting for Gods word, feel uncomfortable and not welcome because they could not give.

Yes, that ^^^ I can NOT tolerate a LIE from the BEAST of Revelation aka the "church"... "...Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sin, and that ye receive not of her plagues" Revelation 18:4

I struggle with any compromise of the truth as revelaed to me in HIS holy spirit. It seems hypocrytical to preach faith and then demonstrate the opposite by asking for tithes before the message of salvation. It burns my consicence. This, and many other issue regarding the "church". More so the catholic church, but that's another story.

Keep in mind though, 10% does not have to be put to the church. Some could go to a homeless man for food, a bible for a lost soul, a few hours of your time to a soup kitchen or elderly home. The tree of righteousness has many branches brother..

AMEN brother, AMEN. ^^^ I know the pastors of chruches need to eat also though, which is the main reason I tithe the church. As you know, were the priests of the templ and had no land of their own which is where the first of the 4 tithes originated. But perhaps I should consider a little less to the church itself and spread some out to others in need.

[JosephMomma]

What does the Word say about strife?

it is

[JosephMomma]

Look,
This has been consuming this thread, you all know what I'm talking about. So I'm going to beg that it stops, it's just pure arguing. One of you, yet again you all know who I'm talking about, always stirs up trouble. I find it funny how this person is so quick to point fingers and acts as if they are the most perfect person on Earth. Look, I'm going to come strait out with it. JosephMomma, you call yourself a good Christian, yet you point fingers, call others bad Christians, and have a serious megalomania complex. Of anyone in this thread, you are the least Christian and the last person I would call a Christian to look up to. Perhaps you need to reed the rules first posted in this thread and consider whether you belong in this thread.

either

[JosephMomma]

God is perfect so perfect that his word is perfect..By your standard you say god is perfect but didnt create a perfect book thats a catch 22....Not to be rude but some of your post are getting way out of line.

#1 - God
#2 - His Holy Spirit inside me
#3 - God because he chose me not on account of my deeds or me deserving it

[getting2big]

Is the bible the only source for christians to get their laws?

Is there more than one bible?

Is it allowed to have sex before getting married?

Is it allowed to drink alcohol?

What about violence? May you explain the "cheek" example, I think it goes "if someone slaps you on your left cheek then you must turn your right cheek?

[Powerbuilt]

Yes, that ^^^ I can NOT tolerate a LIE from the BEAST of Revelation aka the "church"... "...Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sin, and that ye receive not of her plagues" Revelation 18:4

I struggle with any compromise of the truth as revelaed to me in HIS holy spirit. It seems hypocrytical to preach faith and then demonstrate the opposite by asking for tithes before the message of salvation. It burns my consicence. .

I do know your pain, my church was in the paper for splitting from the Episcopal faith because they ignored scripture and approved of gay marriage. My church refused to conform. 9 churches left the Episcopal Church, mine was the one in KY. I really do know where you are coming from.

This, and many other issue regarding the "church". More so the catholic church, but that's another story.

I could talk for days about the catholic Church. Especially in regards to there cannons on Justification adopted at the Council of Trent.

AMEN brother, AMEN. ^^^ I know the pastors of churches need to eat also though, which is the main reason I tithe the church. As you know, were the priests of the templ and had no land of their own which is where the first of the 4 tithes originated.

Very true, but the nature of "church" has changed considerable. This is especially true considering the church is starting to commercialize (closed on Christmas) and favoring profits over people. I can not emphasize the importance of belonging to a small community church where we can be held accountable for one another. Fellowship!

But perhaps I should consider a little less to the church itself and spread some out to others in need.

Like I said, that is something you will have to decide, but remember that the "Church" is not bricks and pews, it is every brother you have in Christ.

[JosephMomma]

Is the bible the only source for christians to get their laws?

Is there more than one bible?

Is it allowed to have sex before getting married?

Is it allowed to drink alcohol?

What about violence? May you explain the "cheek" example, I think it goes "if someone slaps you on your left cheek then you must turn your right cheek?

you can read the new rules in "the Sermon on the Mount" from when God came to earth in Jesus in fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:18

Its Matthew Ch. 5,6, & 7

Jesus also adds at the last supper the new commandment - love each other as I loved you (being willing to die for eachother)

BUT

just ask God for the Holy Spirt ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!

(soul to spirit is like bone to marrow -- if you get the Holy Spirit God connects to you and you get Spiritual Gifts)(and eternal life)

IF SOMEONE SAYS THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE DON'T HAVE ACTUAL SPIRITUAL PHENOMENAH LIKE JESUS OR THE APOSTLES IN THE BIBLE
HAD HAPPENING IN THEIR LIVES...

they are missing the point (SPIRIT I SAY AS IN WEIRD NON EXPLAINABLE BY PHYSICAL WORLD CONCEPTS TYPE FREAKY EVENTS HOLY SPIRIT I SAY I REPEAT)

[JosephMomma]

they'll treat you like Jesus says at the last supper...

the way they treat me on this board and everywhere else

[JosephMomma]

and if the preacher is called "Father"...

and if he wears a decorated garment...

[Powerbuilt]

Is the bible the only source for christians to get their laws?
Protestant answer: Yes
Roman Catholicism answer = No

Is there more than one bible?
Thats a very big question.
There are different Versions. These versions are usually only different in "wording." The Catholics also have an extra section in there bible called the Apocrypha, where they get some of there doctrines from (purgatory). Some bibles are Study Bibles, some are condensed versions. I can suggest a very good, easy to understand bible for you if you like.

Is it allowed to have sex before getting married? No, but if you have already committed that sin, there is forgiveness.

Is it allowed to drink alcohol? Yes, but not be a drunkard.

What about violence? May you explain the "cheek" example, I think it goes "if someone slaps you on your left cheek then you must turn your right cheek?
This is an example of how to act. Christians don't meet violence with more violence. They act like Christ. We forgive, we turn the other cheek, we are peacemakers that resolve conflicts by sometimes sacrificing our own comforts or pride to settle them.

[Powerbuilt]

you can read the new rules in "the Sermon on the Mount" from when God came to earth in Jesus in fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:18

Its Matthew Ch. 5,6, & 7

Jesus also adds at the last supper the new commandment - love each other as I loved you (being willing to die for eachother)

BUT

just ask God for the Holy Spirt ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!

(soul to spirit is like bone to marrow -- if you get the Holy Spirit God connects to you and you get Spiritual Gifts)(and eternal life)

IF SOMEONE SAYS THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE DON'T HAVE ACTUAL SPIRITUAL PHENOMENAH LIKE JESUS OR THE APOSTLES IN THE BIBLE
HAD HAPPENING IN THEIR LIVES...

they are missing the point (SPIRIT I SAY AS IN WEIRD NON EXPLAINABLE BY PHYSICAL WORLD CONCEPTS TYPE FREAKY EVENTS HOLY SPIRIT I SAY I REPEAT)

I see where you are comming from friend, but you are confusing and pushing conceps that are a little to advanced for a new christian.

Jesus also adds at the last supper the new commandment - love each other as I loved you (being willing to die for eachother)

He didn't add that commandment, that commandment sums up 6 of the 10 commandments and goes much further the to die for another, it also is a concept as small as forgive as you would want to be forgiven.

[jake24]

#1 - God
#2 - His Holy Spirit inside me
#3 - God because he chose me not on account of my deeds or me deserving it

No I dont think every word you write or speak is told to you from god.... I think the gift of prophecy today is for edification of the body of christ I dont believe in new revelations I stick to the word of god (I am not saying you dont have the gift)... Was every word spoken by a prophet in a casual setting a direct revelation from god nope and the same for you...Did god tell you in your earlier post to say that his word isnt perfect I dont think so...(All scripture is given by inspiration of god and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof,for correction,for instruction in righteousness.)

[jake24]

Is the bible the only source for christians to get their laws?

Is there more than one bible?

Is it allowed to have sex before getting married?

Is it allowed to drink alcohol?

What about violence? May you explain the "cheek" example, I think it goes "if someone slaps you on your left cheek then you must turn your right cheek?

If you want to look at gods standard of morality look at the 10 commandments thats your standard you have to keep to be good enough in gods eyes and if found guilty of breakings gods laws you will wind up in hell.....Thats why christ came paid the penalty of your sins so you wont have to thats good news if you repent and trust in christ you will be fogiven.

[jake24]

Is it allowed to have sex before getting married?

Is it allowed to drink alcohol?

What about violence? May you explain the "cheek" example, I think it goes "if someone slaps you on your left cheek then you must turn your right cheek?

Sex before marriage when a sexual union takes place in gods eyes the male and female become one flesh...And outside of marriage is sin you are called a whoremonger an a fornicator, an a adulterer the bible says be not decieved those that do those things shall not inherit the kingdon of god......As for alcohol the bible says no drunkerd will enter heavan but it dosent forbid drinking alcohol just being a drunkerd....You have to give up your sins before god will forgive you.

[c-duff]

ha wow, this took a turn for the defensive side....um, anyone else know of any good verses along the lines of motivation/perserverance/humility???

these are to be linked with say fitness and working out...to promote churches (megas) to invest in a fitness center for there congragation...

[Blau]

either

I never said that. I politely asked you to leave or stop stirring up trouble.

[farmerlee]

Sex before marriage when a sexual union takes place in gods eyes the male and female become one flesh...And outside of marriage is sin you are called a whoremonger an a fornicator, an a adulterer the bible says be not decieved those that do those things shall not inherit the kingdon of god......As for alcohol the bible says no drunkerd will enter heavan but it dosent forbid drinking alcohol just being a drunkerd....You have to give up your sins before god will forgive you.

First you have to look at what a real marriage is. Its not some certificate or fancy ceremony, its a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman. If you can honestly and sincerely make this decision and commit to it with your partner then that is a marriage in gods eyes. Drinking is not a sin as it clearly states in the new testament that jesus drank wine. However it is a sin if you indulge in drinking and put it before god, that is classed as idolatory.

[farmerlee]

TRUTH^^^

Brothers, I am have been struggling with this topic for somoe time now. I especially find it agonozing each time, immediatley after worship, but before the sermon of course, they proceed with call the ushers forward with the tithe buckets. My wife and I tithe 10% off our gross pay "religously", but why do they feel the need to pass the baskets around each Sunday? Where is the faith in that??? Put a tithe basket in the back of the building so we can tithe on our way in our out.

I am gonig to share a dream I had the night before last, coincidenatally enough. I dreamt that I was in our "church" and when they passed around the bucket I questioned "why?" they were passing it aroudn. I proceeded to speak out against this rpactice and challenge their faith. Then, the next memory of the dream I can recall we the building was being burned up. I remember many of the pastors in this church accusing me of lighting the building on fire. It was almost nightmarish in a sense. I, of course, did not start the fire. There it is for whatever it's worth.

I do agree that ideally the tithe basket should be placed at the back for people to place their offerings in when they please. I guess passing it around the congregation is a way to motivate people to tithe, people don't want to look bad by not giving their tithes. Of course thats a terrible reason to pass it around in my opinion. I have to confess my sins and admit that often i'm reluctant to put my tithe in the basket. If they didn't pass it round i don't know if i would tithe consistently. There have been times when i have skipped church because i didn't want to tithe! I know thats terrible and i can only hope and pray for forgiveness and help from jesus.

[FatMime]

I do agree that ideally the tithe basket should be placed at the back for people to place their offerings in when they please. I guess passing it around the congregation is a way to motivate people to tithe, people don't want to look bad by not giving their tithes. Of course thats a terrible reason to pass it around in my opinion. I have to confess my sins and admit that often i'm reluctant to put my tithe in the basket. If they didn't pass it round i don't know if i would tithe consistently. There have been times when i have skipped church because i didn't want to tithe! I know thats terrible and i can only hope and pray for forgiveness and help from jesus.

Tithing is between God and the individual. Honestly. we pass the bucket because:

1. People forget to drop it in the back box on the wall.
2. People complained because "we made them" walk to the back to drop their tithes in the box.
3. It's convenient for the people.

[Uber-neggR]

Hey everyone, just game from a christian youth gathering in birmingham here in the UK.

Everyone had thier own experiences, mine was....odd, to put it nicely.

For one thing, one of the seminars talked about the ability to prophesize. We were even put in groups and told to pray and prophesize for everyone withing the 6-person group.
I didn't like the fact that people were pressured into prophesizing, but I was honest in stating that my mind was a complete blank for everyone in my group. Atleast I admitted it.
However, a friend of mine in my group was "prophesized" about he he finds it hard to tell close friends he is a christian (sic! not true at all).
I was told of how I will become a better rugby player and perform well and become more integrated and more important in my team, which is all good except for the fact that I don't play rugby and never have.

And although one of the seminar was great (about relationship) and the main saturday service was fantastic, I found the concert a little "meh-ish", mainly due to the secular music being played (jimmy hendrix? U2? Jackson 5?)

Overall was pretty good I guess, I just don't like it when us christians have to subdue ourselves and become more secular just to please many.

[mntbikedude]

I do agree that ideally the tithe basket should be placed at the back for people to place their offerings in when they please. I guess passing it around the congregation is a way to motivate people to tithe, people don't want to look bad by not giving their tithes. Of course thats a terrible reason to pass it around in my opinion. I have to confess my sins and admit that often i'm reluctant to put my tithe in the basket. If they didn't pass it round i don't know if i would tithe consistently. There have been times when i have skipped church because i didn't want to tithe! I know thats terrible and i can only hope and pray for forgiveness and help from jesus.

Personaly I don't like motivation that ever includes doing the right thing because you feel pressured or because you are embarrassed not to. We should be challenged and commited not pressured or manipulated.

I think tithing should be paid outside of services and no one other than the Pastor needs to know who is paying or how much. If people wont pay purely because it's a commandment than something is wrong.

We pay tithing not because we have money but because we have faith.

[Powerbuilt]

Personaly I don't like motivation that ever includes doing the right thing because you feel pressured or because you are embarrassed not to. We should be challenged and commited not pressured or manipulated.

I think tithing should be paid outside of services and no one other than the Pastor needs to know who is paying or how much. If people wont pay purely because it's a commandment than something is wrong.

We pay tithing not because we have money but because we have faith.

Actually at my church, the Priest does not want to know if you tithe. When the collection plate runs around the room, it goes up front untill a member of the church council (elder) picks it up and does a count for deposit. The priest (I may me mistaken) in most churches does not see the money of who gave. That way there it illuminates the possibility of bias/favoritism in the church.

I do believe in tithing. But I believe tithes go a lot further then just having giving 10% to the church each week. We introduced a few programs in our church. One is Meals on Wheels. This organization gives one meal a day for a year to one elderly person. Since this is a church funded program, people can take one check a week and put in the memo line: Meals on Wheels

This gives member's of the church two things, tithe that they know goes to more then the church and it really helps a person to know that there money is actually giving another person in need; food. The spirit of giving and helping your neighbor is very important in becoming a mature Christian and growing in your faith.

That is one thing we has really tried to push along. A church that just “funds” itself is a church not reaching out. Church members have a responsibility to each other and to the community (I.E. Neighbors) in order to flourish and grow in the way God meant for it to.

You can do these things on your own without being an elder of your congregation. Make an announcement that your going to collect can goods for Helping Hand, winter coats for a homeless shelter, food for a soup kitchen or anything like that. Tell them to just leave it at the back of the room following service and you will take it on over. If you can, donate your time and talent to these organizations.

BTW: Don’t ever boast about what you have done, give in silence. If you get praise or attention from people, then you received your reward for doing it from people that praised you. But if you do not accept any reward or praise, and do your work in secret your father sees your good work and rewards you.

[Ruthless4Life]

For some reason Catholics don't seem to consider themselves "Christians"... like they think they are more "special" than everybody else who believe in Christ.

[HalleluYAH]

[QUOTE=Powerbuilt]The priest (I may me mistaken) in most churches does not see the money of who gave. That way there it illuminates the possibility of bias/favoritism in the church. [QUOTE]
The head pastor of my fellowship may or may not see how much we tithe, but for tax reasons I know they keep track of how much each family tithes. Who knows who actually looks at these numbers?

[secondsight]

I take it you don't believe that everything I write is directly spoken to me from God

it is

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15

[secondsight]

so sell your stuff and give it to the poor in secret

That is true yet through your actions and words you use this to boast (and hence it is not in secret)... at least that is the impression that you are projecting.

You do not know what we have given to further the cause of Jesus, be it selling items or giving of our time.

Sacrifices (time and money) have been made to help spread the Word.