Broz: Worst Luck or The American "Butcher?

**feces99** · 03-01-2012, 06:06 AM

Is Broz's copying of the "Bulgarian Method" allegedly without the use of restoratives the cause of his gym's disappointing performance? Or does he simply have horrible luck with his athletes?

**WHT_LIGHTNING** · 03-01-2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by feces99

Is Broz's copying of the "Bulgarian Method" allegedly without the use of restoratives the cause of his gym's disappointing performance? Or does he simply have horrible luck with his athletes?

I am new to the weightlifting scene, but how long has he really been around for? I think the verdict is still out would be the best response

**runtocatch** · 03-01-2012, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by feces99

Is Broz's copying of the "Bulgarian Method" allegedly without the use of restoratives the cause of his gym's disappointing performance? Or does he simply have horrible luck with his athletes?

In Bulgaria folks would beat down the door for an opportunity to become something. In America most people have it way too easy so there wont be near as many young men tryin to work that hard for the chance to get out of a **** life cuz none of us really have it that bad. I bet they went through athletes left and right and would with or without restoratives.

**scarboro** · 03-01-2012, 08:11 AM

Not sure how restoratives would help you 'want' it more. I think it's just mental weakness on the athletes part but then again not many people want to become the best.

**runtocatch** · 03-01-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by scarboro

Not sure how restoratives would help you 'want' it more. I think it's just mental weakness on the athletes part but then again not many people want to become the best.

Exactly bro!

**raffiki** · 03-01-2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by scarboro

Not sure how restoratives would help you 'want' it more. I think it's just mental weakness on the athletes part but then again not many people want to become the best.

LOL You have a big brass pair do ya?

Broz is clearly over the top. Farris is #1 so far and he trains 5x a week. Are 12-14 sessions a week necessary to be the best in the world? Maybe, but it sure isn't to be the best in the U.S. Why push so hard before it's even necessary? Why waste a perfectly good junior lift only to cripple him for 2 years? There are many coaches who can keep their lifters happy and healthy while becoming national champions. Why take it to the next level before there is a reason to?

**nurburg** · 03-01-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by runtocatch

In Bulgaria folks would beat down the door for an opportunity to become something. In America most people have it way too easy so there wont be near as many young men tryin to work that hard for the chance to get out of a **** life cuz none of us really have it that bad. I bet they went through athletes left and right and would with or without restoratives.

This is a very good point. Here in America we comment about how how black athletes dominate football and basketball. Hispanics dominate baseball. It's because they had to give it everything they had to get out of a **** life.

Regardless of race or nationality I do wonder how many athletes get "tossed aside" when they can't quite make the cut for an olympic weightlifting team. We only ever hear about the amazing successes but what the hell do the ones that don't make it do with themselves? Dedicated your entire life to training since your early teens and having lifting be your entire life (that's true for anyone trying to become a pro athlete).

I would love to hear some stories from other countries with great programs (like China) from lifters who were drummed out whether through injury, lack of performance, or loss of desire.

As to Broz's Bulgarian style training I don't think that's the issue but I am completely ignorant as to how he behaves as a coach. I see lots of interaction between Pendlay and his athletes at Cal Strength... they seem to have a good relationship. Don't know about Broz.

**dtaps24** · 03-01-2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by feces99

allegedly without the use of restoratives the cause of his gym's disappointing performance?

Spit out my drink at work reading this part. You owe me a swallow of Coke Zero. Ask people in the loop in the Oly lifting community and see what people say with regards to that "allegation," odd that they seem to always have disappointment in close proximity to testing whereas they kill it in the gym. Weird coincidence. Maybe Mendes will buck this trend at the Arnold. We shall see. I'll cross my fingers but not hold my breath.

**tfk44** · 03-01-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by raffiki

LOL You have a big brass pair do ya?

Broz is clearly over the top. Farris is #1 so far and he trains 5x a week. Are 12-14 sessions a week necessary to be the best in the world? Maybe, but it sure isn't to be the best in the U.S. Why push so hard before it's even necessary? Why waste a perfectly good junior lift only to cripple him for 2 years? There are many coaches who can keep their lifters happy and healthy while becoming national champions. Why take it to the next level before there is a reason to?

Best post of the thread and the only logical one. I would love to see the people writing about mental weakness try doing 13 sessions a week and see how long their bodies hold up.

**feces99** · 03-01-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by dtaps24

Spit out my drink at work reading this part. You owe me a swallow of Coke Zero. Ask people in the loop in the Oly lifting community and see what people say with regards to that "allegation," odd that they seem to always have disappointment in close proximity to testing whereas they kill it in the gym. Weird coincidence. Maybe Mendes will buck this trend at the Arnold. We shall see. I'll cross my fingers but not hold my breath.

Don't want to tell tales and start flame wars. According to the USAW, he is clean. That's all that matters. Mendes also had a bad injury in his rotator cuff.

P.S. Coke Zero sucks. Good riddance.

**crupiea** · 03-01-2012, 02:08 PM

In bulgaria, weights lift you.

**WHT_LIGHTNING** · 03-01-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by raffiki

LOL You have a big brass pair do ya?

Broz is clearly over the top. Farris is #1 so far and he trains 5x a week. Are 12-14 sessions a week necessary to be the best in the world? Maybe, but it sure isn't to be the best in the U.S. Why push so hard before it's even necessary? Why waste a perfectly good junior lift only to cripple him for 2 years? There are many coaches who can keep their lifters happy and healthy while becoming national champions. Why take it to the next level before there is a reason to?

Farris is number 1 in the USA, that is true, but maybe if trained more ala Broz or Cal Strength style, maybe he would be medaling at Worlds. Then again, maybe he would be worse, but the fact remains, we don't know.

**SquinkysGhost** · 03-01-2012, 04:32 PM

Weightlifter without drugs is like a bird without wings.

**dtaps24** · 03-01-2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by feces99

Don't want to tell tales and start flame wars. According to the USAW, he is clean. That's all that matters. Mendes also had a bad injury in his rotator cuff.

P.S. Coke Zero sucks. Good riddance.

Yes, and according to USAW he is capable of hitting approximately 75% of what he has hit when he's not in the pool too. Adell never entered the pool. Maybe it's bad luck. I have no issue with it, just stating facts. I really hope Mendes bucks the trend because I think he's an awesome lifter.

**chigiskov** · 03-01-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by nurburg

As to Broz's Bulgarian style training I don't think that's the issue but I am completely ignorant as to how he behaves as a coach. I see lots of interaction between Pendlay and his athletes at Cal Strength... they seem to have a good relationship. Don't know about Broz.

Having observed them in the training room at the Arnold, they seem pretty close knit. Broz is a fairly quiet dude, doesn't say too much. Asks his lifters how they feel after every single lift and watches very closely. But they are all very friendly, he seems like a father almost.

**viperjax** · 03-01-2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by WHT_LIGHTNING

Farris is number 1 in the USA, that is true, but maybe if trained more ala Broz or Cal Strength style, maybe he would be medaling at Worlds. Then again, maybe he would be worse, but the fact remains, we don't know.

Maybe he would be better riding an exercise bike for 10 hours a day. Maybe he's better off in the NFL. Maybe he should meditate more.

**raffiki** · 03-01-2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by WHT_LIGHTNING

Farris is number 1 in the USA, that is true, but maybe if trained more ala Broz or Cal Strength style, maybe he would be medaling at Worlds. Then again, maybe he would be worse, but the fact remains, we don't know.

You miss the point. Maybe another coach or system could take him a little further, but that is not the issue. Broz tries to train his guys like they are full time lifters when they are not even close to Farris' level. Farris squats 270x3 (as well as 243x10!) and only squats 3x a week. Why would a lifter need 12-14 squat sessions if they are not even close to that level? Why would you take a lifter that is not even nationally ranked in the top 10 for his weight class and push him to train so much?

**viperjax** · 03-01-2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by raffiki

LOL You have a big brass pair do ya?

Broz is clearly over the top. Farris is #1 so far and he trains 5x a week. Are 12-14 sessions a week necessary to be the best in the world? Maybe, but it sure isn't to be the best in the U.S. Why push so hard before it's even necessary? Why waste a perfectly good junior lift only to cripple him for 2 years? There are many coaches who can keep their lifters happy and healthy while becoming national champions. Why take it to the next level before there is a reason to?

Exactly this. Dropping out does not imply mental weakness anymore than signing up for an iron man is a sign of mental fortitude. Bulgarian weightlifting is not the only measure of focus and grit, if even it is at all.

But.. keyboard warriors gonna type away about who has the balls and who has what it takes and how these lifters obviously want it more than those lifters. Mmmkay.

**nohomejerome** · 03-01-2012, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by viperjax

Exactly this. Dropping out does not imply mental weakness anymore than signing up for an iron man is a sign of mental fortitude. Bulgarian weightlifting is not the only measure of focus and grit, if even it is at all.

But.. keyboard warriors gonna type away about who has the balls and who has what it takes and how these lifters obviously want it more than those lifters. Mmmkay.

THIS
and the bulg approach was for lifters on roids

**WHT_LIGHTNING** · 03-02-2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by viperjax

Maybe he would be better riding an exercise bike for 10 hours a day. Maybe he's better off in the NFL. Maybe he should meditate more.

yeah, that's the ****ing point, we don't know.

Broz has a system that he believes in, so obviously he is going to train his lifters in that system. So all the keyboard warriors who criticize him have no idea if what he is doing is right or not. Same thing with how Kendrick trains, there are no real definites when it comes to training, what we do know is that Broz's lifters have hit some big numbers in training, but that hasn't carried over to competitions (yet).

Originally Posted by raffiki

You miss the point. Maybe another coach or system could take him a little further, but that is not the issue. Broz tries to train his guys like they are full time lifters when they are not even close to Farris' level. Farris squats 270x3 (as well as 243x10!) and only squats 3x a week. Why would a lifter need 12-14 squat sessions if they are not even close to that level? Why would you take a lifter that is not even nationally ranked in the top 10 for his weight class and push him to train so much?

Basically read my above response, he has his methods, he is not going to change them and only use them on elite level lifters. Besides if he did that, and the lifter didn't get better, everybody would be saying why the **** did you change what you were doing with that lifter....

**nastyk** · 03-02-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by runtocatch

In Bulgaria folks would beat down the door for an opportunity to become something. In America most people have it way too easy so there wont be near as many young men tryin to work that hard for the chance to get out of a **** life cuz none of us really have it that bad. I bet they went through athletes left and right and would with or without restoratives.

and its not like weightlifting's gonna get you out of a ****ty life either, at least in the US.

**dtaps24** · 03-02-2012, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by WHT_LIGHTNING

Broz has a system that he believes in, so obviously he is going to train his lifters in that system. So all the keyboard warriors who criticize him have no idea if what he is doing is right or not. Same thing with how Kendrick trains, there are no real definites when it comes to training, what we do know is that Broz's lifters have hit some big numbers in training, but that hasn't carried over to competitions (yet).

Basically read my above response, he has his methods, he is not going to change them and only use them on elite level lifters. Besides if he did that, and the lifter didn't get better, everybody would be saying why the **** did you change what you were doing with that lifter....

As much as I hate to disagree with a guy that squats in front of a Gator Poster, can we just put away the annointing oils on Broz? I know it sounds fun to train as hard as you can every day, but until he sends a a lifter to the Games, produces a national champion, or has some modicrum of success in competition perhaps we can stop making him the Vince Lombardi of Oly lifting? The guy has his school of thought, and his lifters have some incredible (even unbelieveable) progress in the gym, he's forgotten more about Oly Lifting than I would ever care to learn, but most of his fanfare comes from talking the talk not his lifters walking the walk (certainly not the results in competition) and people thinking it would be cool to squat all day every day. Maybe this will change in the future, but right now the American lifter who has most successfully implemented Bulgarian Methodology is Jamie Lewis. That's right, Chaos and Pain.

**WHT_LIGHTNING** · 03-02-2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by dtaps24

As much as I hate to disagree with a guy that squats in front of a Gator Poster, can we just put away the annointing oils on Broz? I now it sounds fun to train as hard as you can every day, but until he sends a a lifter to the Games, produces a national champion, or has some modicrum of success in competition perhaps we can stop making him the Vince Lombardi of Oly lifting? The guy has his school of thought, and his lifters have some incredible (even unbelieveable) progress in the gym, he's forgotten more about Oly Lifting than I would ever care to learn, but most of his fanfare comes from talking the talk not his lifters walking the walk (certainly not the results in competition) and people thinking it would be cool to squat all day every day. Maybe this will change in the future, but right now the American lifter who has most successfully implemented Bulgarian Methodology is Jamie Lewis. That's right, Chaos and Pain.

I agree with what you are saying, but that is not Broz's fault. He has never said that he was the holy grail or that he was the best coach in the nation, that is the problem of the fanboys. He has only been coaching a few years (as far as I know) so I am sure he is still learning on the go. It's turning into the whole Tebow in the NFL situation, lol. Some people praising him, some hating him, but he isn't personally making any statements regarding how great he is.

Isn't he only working with local kids/guys too(other than Enderton who moved there to train) it's not like he is out recruiting all the top talent.

Gilbert took 2nd with 232kgs today, not sure what he was expected to do though. He did miss a few snatches, but even if he got them, Barnes still would of won

edit: Everybody here wants the USA to be relevant in the world scene, well doing the same **** that everybody else has been doing in the USA obviously isn't going to get us there. So Broz is doing something different(in the USA) and we will see what happens.

Doing the same ****, will get you the same ****ing results. So I am all for the change....

**scarboro** · 03-02-2012, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by raffiki

LOL You have a big brass pair do ya?

Broz is clearly over the top. Farris is #1 so far and he trains 5x a week. Are 12-14 sessions a week necessary to be the best in the world? Maybe, but it sure isn't to be the best in the U.S. Why push so hard before it's even necessary? Why waste a perfectly good junior lift only to cripple him for 2 years? There are many coaches who can keep their lifters happy and healthy while becoming national champions. Why take it to the next level before there is a reason to?

I made some assumptions I didn't state. I meant to say that if Broz(bulgarian) crazy system is the way to becoming #1 then I don't think anything in the world can help with the stress it induces. You have to probably want it really badly and nothing else in life to stay with it. I don't have 'big brass ones' lol, I should have said that for example I don't want to be #1 and pretty much anyone online doesn't have that mental fortitude to drop their life and go on a suicide mission for olympic lifting.

**runtocatch** · 03-02-2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by tfk44

Best post of the thread and the only logical one. I would love to see the people writing about mental weakness try doing 13 sessions a week and see how long their bodies hold up.

Bro I am not sayin at all that I could handle it. I am admitting to the fact that I am also an American that "never had it that bad". You give a person only one option to get themselves out of extreme poverty and they are gonna kill themselves to do it or die tryin anyhow.

**runtocatch** · 03-02-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by nastyk

and its not like weightlifting's gonna get you out of a ****ty life either, at least in the US.

Exactly....all the studs growin up were playin football and wrestling. And all the tall lanky bastards were playin basketball. Sorry had to knock the pumpkin pushers a bit.

**dtaps24** · 03-02-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by WHT_LIGHTNING

I agree with what you are saying, but that is not Broz's fault. He has never said that he was the holy grail or that he was the best coach in the nation, that is the problem of the fanboys. He has only been coaching a few years (as far as I know) so I am sure he is still learning on the go. It's turning into the whole Tebow in the NFL situation, lol. Some people praising him, some hating him, but he isn't personally making any statements regarding how great he is.

Isn't he only working with local kids/guys too(other than Enderton who moved there to train) it's not like he is out recruiting all the top talent.

Gilbert took 2nd with 232kgs today, not sure what he was expected to do though. He did miss a few snatches, but even if he got them, Barnes still would of won

edit: Everybody here wants the USA to be relevant in the world scene, well doing the same **** that everybody else has been doing in the USA obviously isn't going to get us there. So Broz is doing something different(in the USA) and we will see what happens.

Doing the same ****, will get you the same ****ing results. So I am all for the change....

I hear you, though I'm not that sure he doesn't bring a good bit of it on himself. The tested powerlifting meet that never materialized springs immediately to mind. The public bus throwing of Adell is not a good moment for him. Almost Muschampian, but I digress. I think that most people being objective probably make a similar logical analysis of the reasons behind the timing of Adell's "burnout." Like I've said, I don't care about that aspect of the training and honestly think that when Bulgarian method was designed there was an assumption that there would be certain supplementation in conjunction with the program. I don't know if he recruits outside his region, but I don't think there's been any lack of raw talent in that gym. Why that hasn't translated to success in competition doesn't really matter, my point is that until it does he shouldn't be considered the end all be all of Oly Lifting training that some people (particularly on this board) seem to want him to be.

**jcameron28** · 03-03-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by dtaps24

I know it sounds fun to train as hard as you can every day, but until he sends a a lifter to the Games, produces a national champion, or has some modicrum of success in competition perhaps we can stop making him the Vince Lombardi of Oly lifting?

I can understand some skepticism towards Broz but this just isn`t true. Pat just won nationals for the second year in a row, Rob adell came second at jr. nationals a couple years ago when he was starting out with Broz while he was playing football full time and weightlifting on the side (he looked just as freakish as an 18 and 17 year old as he does now). Josh Gilbert came second this year at nationals and has a video of him at the broz gym cleaning double bodyweight when he was 17 and a skinny 57kg. The point being Broz has had a decent amount of success at the national level and it is doubtful that all his athletes have been juicing since they were 16 just to be able to keep up with his training program.

Plus the only athlete he had that was ever hitting high international level numbers was Pat and he has been able to win nationals twice while injured and probably being tested the most out of anyone by usaw due to being suspicious and high profile. (It probably does take some kind of assistance to snatch 207 but you certainly don`t go back to snatching 177 just from cycling off without even having to cut weight, that is ridiculous.)

**nohomejerome** · 03-03-2012, 11:38 AM

hes snatched more than he c&j'd today

**WHT_LIGHTNING** · 03-03-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by nohomejerome

hes snatched more than he c&j'd today

Patrick Mendes Average Broz Gym 176 204 380

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