going to failure

[9cyclops9]

huh i gave the scientific explanation long ago. If your missed it its your fault. Don't you ever go to mikementzer.com and read.
Its funny how the volume lifters keep having to come up with something new. Next thing you know 2 sets won't be enough either.

You're such a dumbass. Post a damn link to it. Bump it. Copy and paste it into a new thread. I don't care, just show me where to find it. "I did it a long time ago" doesn't cut it, and doesn't show me a damn thing. I'm sitting here, offering to eat my words, DROP my style of training for a few months, and start Mentzer HIT, complete with a journal on this site, if you simply show me a scientific explanation of why HIT is better by you that holds water. All you have to do is give me a link to the post, or copy and paste it. I'm not going to read through all your bull**** to try to find it though, you have to give me the link. It takes just a few minutes, and you stand the chance of making a so-called "high volume" guy eat his words on a public forum, and switching to your way of training. I'll even get your help designing a routine. So how about it?

[Khryz]

Question, if going to failure is pointless for muscle growth - then how come DC training is so effective even though they go beyond failure, only 1 set per bodypart, etc? How is DC different from HIT?

[LostProphet]

Because you need a twin doing "volume" to truly see the benefits of the fish method.

LMFAO

[slippy]

Question, if going to failure is pointless for muscle growth - then how come DC training is so effective even though they go beyond failure, only 1 set per bodypart, etc? How is DC different from HIT?

DC training is special, though. It may be the most physiologically aggressive "general workout scheme" I've ever seen in regards to hypertrophy. It doesn't really matter if a trainee subscribes to the energetic theory, the mechanical strain theory, or the calceurin pathway theory for hypertrophy. A DC program is all three with a vengeance.

[chiefhog]

The main problem I have with going to failure is that you are so fried that you can only work out once a week. This only allows hypertrophic stimulus every 7 days. We know that protein synthesis is complete at 48hrs. Why wait 7 days to apply the stimulus that is needed to grow when you can do it several times per week, thereby maximizing your results.

We get caught up on volume and number of sets vs. HIT. To me it has nothing to do with volume or sets, one "routine" against the other. That is where you run into problems and people doggedly defend their way of lifting. Flame wars ensue and nothing gets communicated. It is about using what real science has shown us to this point.

Good luck in the Iron Game.

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

The main problem I have with going to failure is that you are so fried that you can only work out once a week. This only allows hypertrophic stimulus every 7 days. We know that protein synthesis is complete at 48hrs. Why wait 7 days to apply the stimulus that is needed to grow when you can do it several times per week, thereby maximizing your results.

We get caught up on volume and number of sets vs. HIT. To me it has nothing to do with volume or sets, one "routine" against the other. That is where you run into problems and people doggedly defend their way of lifting. Flame wars ensue and nothing gets communicated. It is about using what real science has shown us to this point.

Good luck in the Iron Game.

Wayne,
protein synthesis is complete at 48hrs. That dose not mean your muscles are recovered in 48 hours, mind you, when you first strat training HIT you workout each bodypart 3 times a week, slowely reducing to one bodypart a week, like most other programs.

You have not got the take the big compounds to failure if you dont want to.

Wayne

[J.L.C.]

Hi there all,




Wayne,
protein synthesis is complete at 48hrs. That dose not mean your muscles are recovered in 48 hours, mind you, when you first strat training HIT you workout each bodypart 3 times a week, slowely reducing to one bodypart a week, like most other programs.

You have not got the take the big compounds to failure if you dont want to.

Wayne

Hi there Wayne,

What are your thoughts on the scientific evidence that supports the idea that it may be better to train the body/muscle, before it is fully recovered, in order to progress?

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

DC training is special, though. It may be the most physiologically aggressive "general workout scheme" I've ever seen in regards to hypertrophy. It doesn't really matter if a trainee subscribes to the energetic theory, the mechanical strain theory, or the calceurin pathway theory for hypertrophy. A DC program is all three with a vengeance.Question, if going to failure is pointless for muscle growth - then how come DC training is so effective even though they go beyond failure, only 1 set per bodypart, etc? How is DC different from HIT?

I have never tryed DC or read much on it (any links) so I can't coment, however HIT is the same a we too take failure far behond failure.

If you think DC is hard, just try DCT, biggest shock of my life,

Wayne

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

I'm sorry Wayne but can you read entire posts and not just what you want to hear?

Wayne,
Please read them I am reading all your, and everyone’s, THIS IS HOW WE LEARN, WHEN EVERY BODY DISAGREES, IF WE ALL AGREED, WE WOULD LEAN NOTHING.

Wayne

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

Still no time for a full explanation.

Slippy,
Great post, now why can’t the rest of you talk like that, nice a civil, not all this bad langue.

Hi Madcow, you asked,
So at this point - and I've asked before, given that we all know CNS fatigue matters (except for you), can you please explain to us specifically how training to failure does not impose additional demands or lead to increased fatigue on the central nervous system. I'd think this is what's behind low volume and low frequency but apparently that's a separate issue because the CNS doesn't matter enough to really be considered in fundamental programming. Just please type it out in layman's terms why specifically training to failure has no fatigue implications on the CNS.

Wayne,
Yes I will do that, but the problem is you have not stated why you think training to failure harms the CNS, AND HOW. YOU SAID you did some sort of experiment could you please outline in full please.

Cant you understand, (by the way this is not my full explanation) when people in all styles overtrain a muscle group, it’s the muscles themselves that have not recovered, WHAT do you think the muscle is totally fine, and it’s the CNS’s that is telling it, your overtraining stop, it’s the muscle itself that has to repair itself, the only way there would be CNS shut down, and that would happen if you did 30 sets 4 times per week to failure for a month, then CNS and muscles would put you in a state of exhaustion.

Kchryz wrote,
Anyone that has lifted a f*cking heavy weight can tell you that going to failure makes you light headed after and dizzy, weak, etc. Is that the muscular system? No, it's the f*cking CNS that has been torched to ****. I don't understand how hard this concept is to grasp. Yes, it might not be to big of a deal for you since you might've gotten used to it but it's still a huge price to pay (CNS) for an extra 1-2 reps? Honestly I feel bad for Awnold and DRush and whoever else trains HIT, but these guys like Kingfish and Wayne make HIT look ridiculous.

Wayne,
Ok at first going to failure might seem a bit hard at first, you will get a bit nauseated, I still remember this the first time I did a double pre-exhaustion for the legs, I felt horrible for about a few minutes, now however, as I stated training to failure stimulates the CNS, and does not harm it, you don’t want to put the CNS to sleep, you feel fantastic when going to failure you get a BIG HIGH, and after training to failure for some time, you just feel great all the time, IT MAKES YOU FEEL SO DAMN ALIVE. IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU FEEL WEAL, BUT JUST THE OPPOSITE, you mush be very unaccustomed to training hard, and out of shape, sorry about that, but the conditions you stated just point to that.

Wayne

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

Kchryz wrote,
What's the point of maximum CNS involvement? How does the CNS contribute to hypertrophy? I thought this is a hypertrophy program? I'm pretty sure muscle growth is dependant on progressive overload not fatigue/retirement. I'm not an expert lifter but from what I can see there's a good reason why no other program addresses those issues because they don't work.


Wayne,

THIS IS PROGRESS OVERLOAD AT ITS BEST. WITHOUT THE CNS THE BRAIN INVOLVEMENT AND STIMULATION THE MUSCLES CANT GROW.

THIS PROGRAM WORKS LIKE NO OTHER, AND ADDRESS WHAT I SAID PLEASE SEE BELOW.

I have trained HIT for several years, and have harvested a high percentage of my capacity, on the one set to failure, but several sets of different exercises for the same muscle group. There is no "SUPER" any more, only DIRECT. I started a different HIT orientated program, and for over two years made good progress, but will not go into that.
NOW I AM ON BIOFORCE (JOHN CASLER) DIRECT COMPENSATION TRAINING, AND MADE PROGRESS FOR OVER 5 MONTHS NOW, NO PLAGUE.

THE FIRST SET STIMULATES THE CNS YOU NEED TO EXITED IT, NOT PUT IT TO SLEEP, this is the hardest set you will/have ever done, 30 reps last 10 are pure ecstasy, I mean pain, after this you CNS the brain is fired up, your high, and not a drunk kind of high a VERY EXITING and clear kind of high (come on you all get it, the feeling they call the zone)

Your CNS the brain and muscles are totally siked up, you wait 5 minutes after 3 itching to get at the weight, with you have now added about 25%, you then attack this set, the first go up like feathers, its feels frigging incredible, at about 12 reps, the set hits in very hard, you KNOW you will finish, you finish 15 reps.

Now comes the thirst set, THIS is really the last set, now your CNS the brain and muscles are frigging on fire, after the last set and now another 5 minutes you cant wait to get at the weights, you now add another 15%, the first go up again surprisingly easy, but you can really feel the weight on this one, as for me its my 10 max (beaten them all on this program) but you have a hunger to finish these, its like you HAVE to do them, as if your life depends on them, you know the first time with a girl, you don’t care if your protected or not, you have to have it, your like a seasoned up hyena, back you hit 30 reps failure, and pure CNS the brain, stimulation,

Your actually stimulating the CNS the brain so mush it as we know produced our natural drugs.

SORRY NO SCIENTIFIC ANSWER YET BUT THERE WILL BE, BUT YOU LOT HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY YET.

Wayne

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

The program again, for the new ones here.

1/2 rep speed,

Set 1, 30 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 2, add 25% 15 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 3 add 15% 10 reps, rest 2 minutes, Set 4 drop the weight down, and do a set of "very strict" stop at the top, and stop at the bottom and pause reps. ,

Set One = This set acts as a warm up, (warm up, hehehe John, this by far the hardest set) and maximally stresses the musculature and all the support systems as a warm up. Which ( I though no warm up was needed, until I rested 5 minutes after the first set, then did set two, before when ever I did a warm up, I only waited about 1 minute, no wonder) is needed to achieve maximum metabolic, structural, and CNS efficiency. Pump after the first set is pretty incredible.

Set Two = This is a maximal effort set, and the last two reps are "dead stops". While this is generally a difficult set, failure is not always the goal. If I am in a "progress" phase, I only look for a rep or couple pound increase every session.

Set Three = this set is to failure but the overload rep or weight goal is more important. Each rep is attacked with the intension of moving the weight as fast as possible. Intensity is at the level that I have to sit at the end for a few seconds and regain orientation. It is a violent, intense effort and the first two sets are staging to prepare for it. There would be NO WAY to get here in a single set.

Set Four = drop down set,

The Mental, Metabolic, and Motor limits are explored with this type of training and "each" can create, its own limiting factor. To reach Maximum Potential, one must be prepared to recognize the stimulus needed for the goal (load/volume/time wise) and develop each of those limiting factors to allow maximum, or high percentage results.

Kchryz wrote,
Honestly I feel bad for Awnold and DRush and whoever else trains HIT, but these guys like Kingfish and Wayne make HIT look ridiculous. This is 28 pages of convincing 1st graders the sky is blue.

Wayne,
Please don’t say that I have been training HIT for over 20 years.

Wayne,

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

JLC wrote,
Hi there Wayne,

What are your thoughts on the scientific evidence that supports the idea that it may be better to train the body/muscle, before it is fully recovered, in order to progress?

When I was young, in school I trained three times per week, HVT, to failure, drop sets, did lots of different things, and never missed a workout, but when I did miss a workout, about once in a month, you know the party’s and things at that age.

I could always at the next training session break all or so of my records; it did not sink in there.

I do not at all support it, but at first if you’re young you can overtrain and get away with it for a few weeks.

Thing is when your young you will grow stronger and bigger each day if you sit on you ass, as you growing into a fully grown male.

There is not real evidence on and scientific web site with the support for that, as far as I can see.

You can at first train 3 times per week, but most people get better results training one muscle group a week after some time on the weights, now and again you can specialise on a muscle group, and work it up to two or maybe three times per week for short periods.

I can’t really see, if you don’t let the muscle recover, how it can grow bigger and stronger.

Do an experiment your self, just do two sets for each muscle group, one warm up, then two sets of ten, 3 times per week and see how long you progress???

Good question, I think the HST site states this, I think its very untrue, and that is the way to overtraining and the CNS breakdown.

Wayne

[J.L.C.]

Wow, Strong BS

Hi there Wayne,

Have you ever tried a literature search for the effects of training on the CNS?
If not, I just did one, using 2 keywords "CNS" and "overtraining".

I did the search here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed

It's a database of published scientific research, you might find some of the articles interesting.

Here's the abstract of the first article that came up:

Curr Sports Med Rep. 2005 Feb;4(1):18-23.

Exercise and its effects on the central nervous system.

Anish EJ.

Division of General Internal Medicine, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, 5230 Centre Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15232, USA.

Exercise can have profound effects on numerous biologic systems within the human body, including the central nervous system (CNS). The inherent complexity of the CNS, and the methodologic difficulties in evaluating its in vivo neurochemistry in humans, provide challenges to investigators studying the impact of exercise on the CNS. As a result, our knowledge in this area of exercise science remains relatively limited. However, advances in research technology are allowing investigators to gain valuable insight into the neurobiologic mechanisms that contribute to the bidirectional communication that occurs between the periphery and the CNS during exercise. This article examines how exercise-induced alterations in the CNS contribute to central fatigue and the overtraining syndrome, and how exercise can influence psychologic wellbeing and cognitive function.

You may also enjoy a read through this page:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...rtraining.html

Fatigue and overtraining do occur, they just do. That is a fact with supporting research. All anyone is trying to say....is that the effects of training should be given some consideration when planning someone's training over time.
Which seems like common sense to me.

[Khryz]

Hi Madcow, you asked,
So at this point - and I've asked before, given that we all know CNS fatigue matters (except for you), can you please explain to us specifically how training to failure does not impose additional demands or lead to increased fatigue on the central nervous system. I'd think this is what's behind low volume and low frequency but apparently that's a separate issue because the CNS doesn't matter enough to really be considered in fundamental programming. Just please type it out in layman's terms why specifically training to failure has no fatigue implications on the CNS.

Wayne,
Yes I will do that, but the problem is you have not stated why you think training to failure harms the CNS, AND HOW. YOU SAID you did some sort of experiment could you please outline in full please.

As I said, READ ENTIRE POSTS not just what you want to hear! You might have lifting for 50 years but you have a severe reading problem. Just from what I remember without having to go back and find it; when you start to near failure in a set the FT fibers are beginning to drop off from fatigue and the CNS have to increase rate coding to force the ST fibers to act like FT fibers, placing a huge demand on the CNS to do this (for an extra 1-2 reps mind you). You just torched the CNS and now it's going to take a lot longer to recover from this set.

Cant you understand, (by the way this is not my full explanation) when people in all styles overtrain a muscle group, it’s the muscles themselves that have not recovered, WHAT do you think the muscle is totally fine, and it’s the CNS’s that is telling it, your overtraining stop, it’s the muscle itself that has to repair itself

I thought it was common sense that muscles recover faster than the CNS in terms of efficiency. How is it then that if you hit failure, it takes you a MUCH LONGER time to be able to duplicate that set then if you stopped before failure (1-2 reps) and did another set in half the rest time?

the only way there would be CNS shut down, and that would happen if you did 30 sets 4 times per week to failure for a month, then CNS and muscles would put you in a state of exhaustion.

Oh wait, but Wayne - why would doing 30 sets 4 times per week TO FAILURE lead to a CNS problem? I thought failure didn't harm the CNS according to you?

Kchryz wrote,
Anyone that has lifted a f*cking heavy weight can tell you that going to failure makes you light headed after and dizzy, weak, etc. Is that the muscular system? No, it's the f*cking CNS that has been torched to ****. I don't understand how hard this concept is to grasp. Yes, it might not be to big of a deal for you since you might've gotten used to it but it's still a huge price to pay (CNS) for an extra 1-2 reps? Honestly I feel bad for Awnold and DRush and whoever else trains HIT, but these guys like Kingfish and Wayne make HIT look ridiculous.

Wayne,
Ok at first going to failure might seem a bit hard at first, you will get a bit nauseated, I still remember this the first time I did a double pre-exhaustion for the legs, I felt horrible for about a few minutes, now however, as I stated training to failure stimulates the CNS, and does not harm it, you don’t want to put the CNS to sleep, you feel fantastic when going to failure you get a BIG HIGH, and after training to failure for some time, you just feel great all the time, IT MAKES YOU FEEL SO DAMN ALIVE. IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU FEEL WEAL, BUT JUST THE OPPOSITE, you mush be very unaccustomed to training hard, and out of shape, sorry about that, but the conditions you stated just point to that.

Wayne

If training to failure doesn't harm the CNS then how do you explain feeling nasuseated training to FAILURE at first? You wouldn't have felt like that if you stopped before failure - why is that? Feeling fantastic after going to failure? A big high? Are we both talking about weight lifting here or something else?

I feel like I'm speaking to a 10 year old. Wayne, for the last time, can you please shift your eyes slightly to the right and then slightly down on this website and see the QUOTE button? Yes! A quooooote button, meaning you can quote people's words a lot easier.

Show me you're not a 10 year old and you can Quote someone like a big boy.

[kingfish3]

exactly wayne. I love training to failure. It gives me so much energy at times its unbelievable. Yes im tired sometimes after a lift but that goes away. I need to energy to do a second set after one set so why worry about being tired after a set to failure.
plus proper mentzer hit is not throwing weights , its good form training.
Also if you bash hit you also bash dc training which is a copy cat system.

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

Hi jlc,
You said,


Hi there Wayne,

Why say BS, ???

You should do a search for CNS and training to failure, the above references are not relevant.

Khryz,
It's late here, might not have time to get back to you oky.

Wayne

[J.L.C.]

Hi there all,

Hi jlc,
You said,


Hi there Wayne,

Why say BS, ???

You should do a search for CNS and training to failure, the above references are not relevant.

Wayne

The reference states that exercise affects the CNS.

"Exercise can have profound effects on numerous biologic systems within the human body, including the central nervous system (CNS)."

How can that be anything BUT relevant??

Are you saying that training to failure is some sort of special kind of exercise that is unique in it's ability to not affect the human nervous system?

You guys are hilarious.

[Khryz]

Thanks Wayne and Kingfish, you just confirmed how little you know about training.

This thread should be closed now.

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

Exercise affects the CNS, EVERYTHING AFFECTS THE CNS..

"Exercise can have profound effects on numerous biologic systems within the human body, including the central nervous system (CNS)." YES I AGREE

How can that be anything BUT relevant?? WE ARE talking about failure and the affects on the CNS, failure, not exercise.

Are you saying that training to failure is some sort of special kind of exercise that is unique in it's ability to not affect the human nervous system? NO I AM NOT.

You guys are hilarious. GLAD I MADE YOU LAUGH, YOU MADE ME TOO, HEY LETS CHANGE THIS FORUM TO COMEDIANS.COM.

Wayne

[J.L.C.]

Wayne,

Exercise affects the CNS

Training to failure is exercise

Therefore, training to failure affects the CNS.

Do you read anything that anyone else posts?

Rate coding increases are fact, result from failure, and affect the CNS. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

[kingfish3]

yeah we try to do bad programs and not grow.

not a single one of my clients ever complains about being worn down or having cns fatigue, but the volume clients come to me just for that reason. They are overtrained.

Thanks Wayne and Kingfish, you just confirmed how little you know about training.

This thread should be closed now.

[kingfish3]

we never said that mentzer hit or one set to failure training never overworks the cns. Hell being on the internet can even do that

[LostProphet]

I'm currently training triplets.

I have put one on a volume routine and he has so far added 100lbs of lean mass and 300lbs to his bench in the past month.

Another I have put on a WSB based routine, he's gained 500lbs on his bench and added slabs of muscle while reducing bf%.

The last I put on a Mentzer HIT routine, he made zero gains and started getting fat, complained that he had no energy and was lethargic, last week he tore his tricep. He's quit the gym, was last seen rubbing wd40 onto his tricep and putting concrete blocks under his bed.

[waynelucky]

Hi there all,

Still awaiting my friend bioforce (John Casler) to write a full explanation on this, as he knows far more about this than me, some of what I wrote are his writeing, opps, I best edit his name in the last few, as I mosttly put his name in.

Wayne,

Exercise affects the CNS

Training to failure is exercise

Therefore, training to failure affects the CNS.

Do you read anything that anyone else posts?

Rate coding increases are fact, result from failure, and affect the CNS. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

REMEMBER your talking to someone that has trained to full failure for over 20 years, what reason would I have to lie, however there are a few at the HIT forums that the training to failure, does not give them good results and no high, about 10% of people there.

Maybe you trained to failure once or twice and feel a bit nauseated,

Rate coding increases are fact, result from failure, and affect the CNS, HOW MANY EXPERIMENTS HAVE PROVEN THIS, AND HOW LONG WAS IT DONE AND HOW MANY PEOPLE, AND WHAT WERE THE EFFECTS, FULL STUDY please.

Have to go.

Hey lost, I can beat that, on the bioforce program, on the first workout I gained 3 inches to my arm, and it's happened on every workout, my arms are now about 78 inchs and still growing, and I am so high from training I am now leaving the solor system, hehehe

Wayne

[J.L.C.]

Do they have physiology textbooks in Malta?

Maybe you could post up some research illustrating that training to failure is different than any other form of weight lifting.....in that it doesn't require increased rate coding, fibre recruitment....or any CNS involvement.

I'm curious to see how lifting a weight, until you can't, can be done without the nervous system.

FULL STUDY please.

[Khryz]

Hi there all,

Still awaiting my friend bioforce (John Casler) to write a full explanation on this, as he knows far more about this than me, some of what I wrote are his writeing, opps, I best edit his name in the last few, as I mosttly put his name in.

So you've been training HIT for 20 years and can't give any explanations regarding (in simple terms) "why you do what you do"? Good job.

Wayne, answer me this simple question - don't you think it's odd that whenever one of us posts some information regarding training to failure, or something about HIT, all you have to say is "Find me a study"?

How are people supposed to gain trust in HIT if you can't even back up your words. 1 year ago I didn't know the FIRST thing about weight lifting, I couldn't tell you the difference between a bicep and tricep exercise. Now, after just reading basic exercise physiology and anatomy it's PROVEN that the CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM sends electrical impulses via motor neurons to their corresponding muscle fibers through the neuromuscular junction where it secretes neurotransmitters (Acetylchlorine) that stimulates muscle activity/contraction. Furthermore, the Laws of Fiber Recruitment state that the Slow-Twitch muscle fibers are fired first, then the Fast-Twitch are fired once the muscle starts to fatigue (unless the load was above 80-85% 1RM in the first place, then ALL fibers would be fired from the first rep). However, since the FT fibers fatigue very quickly, they start to drop off AS YOU NEAR FAILURE. So here these CNS begins to start freakin' out by INCREASING THE FIRING RATE OF THE REMAINING SLOW-TWITCH FIBERS to pick up the pace. So now you're not only torching the CNS to go into overdrive, you're also only contracting the slow-twitch fibers (which by the way aren't the fibers which cause growth) for those extra 1-3 reps - so why bother? And this was just off the top of my head just now, and I might have got something wrong but I got the jist of it right.

And do we really need a study to explain this? Like I said before, if you felt nauseated when you began to start going to failure, how the hell do you think that happened??? <----- ANSWER THIS PLEASE

And if you respond with "FIND ME A STUDY PLEASE" or something like "IS THIS PROVEN YADA YADA YADA" then obviously you just proved you know nothing - and after 20 years!!! Haha

[carl.c]

Central Versus Peripheral Neuromuscular Fatigue

Voluntary muscle actions occur following four primary events (17):

central nervous system recognition
peripheral nervous system stimulation
neuromuscular junction (NMJ) interactions
muscle fiber function
Fatigue, then, "results if the chain of events is interrupted between the central nervous system and the muscle fiber" (17). Therefore, to determine the physiology of fatigue during activity, these events have been divided into two primary locations, central (the brain and spinal column) and peripheral (the motor neurons, the NMJ, and the individual muscle fibers) (9). Central fatigue occurs proximal to the motor neurons whereas peripheral fatigue occurs within the motor units (9).

Although several studies have indicated that fatigue occurs primarily within the central nervous system (CNS) (23), studies by Merton (18,19) that used artificial stimulation techniques to contract muscle fibers found decreases in muscle performance despite no concurrent changes in the magnitude of muscle action potential (MAP) at the muscle's surface (18,19). Because he was able to experimentally mimic the CNS and control the stimulation to the muscle (therefore, the CNS did not fatigue), Merton (18,19) suggested that the decrease in muscle activity that occurred must have been a function of peripheral fatigue. Furthermore, since the MAP is defined as the electrical current that arises at the sarcolemma (distal to the NMJ) (9), Merton (18,19) went on to conclude that because the MAPs were unchanged, the observed peripheral fatigue must have taken place within the muscle fibers themselves.

In a further attempt to discern the central versus peripheral existence of fatigue, more recent studies of maximal voluntary contractions reported central fatigue in five of their nine subjects with no evidence of central fatigue in the remaining four subjects (3). These studies (3,18,19,23), therefore, indicated that both central and peripheral locations must be considered as possible mechanisms of neuromuscular fatigue (9).

There is evidence, however, that the location in which fatigue occurs, central or peripheral, is largely dependent upon the intensity of the work bout (9). Missiuro et al. (20) showed that during high intensity, short duration (1.5 - 3 minutes) work bouts, MAP magnitude increased linearly to failure, whereas low intensity, long duration (40 to 140 minutes) work bouts resulted in a time-dependent decrease in MAP magnitude to failure. The MAP response to high intensity exercise was hypothesized to be a result of increased CNS stimulation to recruit more muscle fibers as fatigued fibers drop out. Increases in CNS function, despite volitional failure, allowed Missiuro et al. (20) to conclude that performance decreases observed during high intensity, short duration exercise were primarily due to peripheral fatiguing mechanisms. On the other hand, the MAP response to low intensity work bouts suggested an impaired ability of the CNS to supply neural stimulation. Therefore, fatigue during low intensity, long duration events is primarily due to central mechanisms.

Peripheral Fatigue: The Accumulation Versus Depletion Hypotheses

Though central fatigue is important to consider when designing programs for long duration activities, peripheral fatigue, because of its close relationship with the high intensity, short duration, interval-like demands of most athletic events, must be addressed by strength and conditioning professionals when designing programs. Thus, two hypotheses have been proposed to explain the physiological characteristics of peripheral fatigue (23), the accumulation and depletion hypotheses. The accumulation hypothesis attributes fatigue to an increased concentration of metabolites in the muscle's cellular environment. Specifically, increases in lactate, hydrogen (H+) ions, inorganic phosphate, and ammonia levels could function as a negative feedback mechanism to induce fatigue (9). It is conceivable, however, that some by-products are produced in such small amounts in the muscle that they would be undetectable in the blood yet still contribute to fatigue; therefore, it is important to understand that the evidence regarding the accumulation hypothesis is limited due to the difficulty in measuring metabolite concentrations in the muscle versus the more common measurements from the blood (9).

The depletion hypothesis simply states that the depletion of energy-yielding substrates (e.g., creatine phosphate (CP), adenosine triphosphate (ATP), glycogen, and/or glucose) during activity may contribute to performance decrements (9,23). Much of the evidence, however, regarding this hypothesis is unclear. Nevertheless, it is important to note that "Éthere is no reason to believe that the accumulation and depletion theories are mutually exclusive. A large degree of interaction probably exists between these two fatigue mechanisms" (9).

Primary Mechanisms of Accumulation

It is well known that exercise of high intensity and short duration recruits fast glycolytic (FG) muscle fibers and relies upon the CP and anaerobic glycolysis energy systems for the synthesis of ATP needed for muscle actions (9). As a by-product of anaerobic glycolysis, however, there is an increase in lactate and subsequent H+ ion concentrations, both of which increase the acidity (decrease the pH) of the cellular environment (9). Increases in cellular acidity that lower pH below the body's normal range (pH of 7.3 - 7.5) can result in the cell's inability to maintain proper function; if driven too low, extreme decreases in pH can even compromise the structural integrity of the cell and destroy essential cell organelles. Thus, the body's response is an attempt to buffer the acidity (increase pH) using sodium bicarbonate and other blood buffers that have high binding affinities for excess H+ ions. Further, with properly designed programs, the body is able to increase its buffering efficiency (7,9). Therefore, consideration should be given to incorporating intensities of 75 - 90% of maximal power for 15 - 30 seconds while allowing 1 - 2.5 minutes of rest (1:3 - 1:5 work-to-rest ratios) when specifically targeting the anaerobic glycolysis system for training benefits (1).

Primary Mechanisms of Depletion

Several authors have clearly outlined the four primary mechanisms by which ATP can be synthesized, including the CP system, anaerobic glycolysis, and oxidative metabolism (1,9,12). Furthermore, there is little dispute that glycogen depletion plays a significant role in determining the endpoint for long-term athletic events such as marathon running and long-distance cycling (9). During high intensity, short duration, maximal (or near maximal) events, however, CP may be depleted to nearly undetectable concentrations as opposed to only an approximate 50% reduction in glycogen stores (12). Therefore, CP degradation accounts for the majority of ATP production during maximal or near-maximal efforts. It is apparent that these substrate depletions may contribute to fatigue; therefore, training programs and nutritional guidelines should be designed in a manner that caters to the specific needs of the individual based upon the energy system that is primarily relied upon during
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If you want any sights just post the number and I can get it.

[EASTVANKY]

I'm gonna agree with Wayne.
I think if you don't do it all the time you will gain. It's really easy to overtrain when you go to failure every time you train. It depends on the type of program you are doing also, full body, 2,3,4,5 day split etc. Also your rep and set range. Alternating these works too.
If you lift heavy all the time you will burn out.
If you're on the juice you'll have a better chance of recovery, but that's not recommended.
Gradual overload with tons of rest and proper nutrition is the key

[Madcow2]

I'm gonna agree with Wayne.
I think if you don't do it all the time you will gain. It's really easy to overtrain when you go to failure every time you train. It depends on the type of program you are doing also, full body, 2,3,4,5 day split etc. Also your rep and set range. Alternating these works too.
If you lift heavy all the time you will burn out.
If you're on the juice you'll have a better chance of recovery, but that's not recommended.
Gradual overload with tons of rest and proper nutrition is the key

This isn't agreeing with Wayne in particular. This is common sense.