Any guys not planning on marrying until mid/late 30's?

[mydawgs]

Why is it a "hole" though? Because you've seen other people run into trouble?

Are you afraid of guns? Why not? You SHOULD be.... after all hundreds, perhaps THOUSANDS of people have had accidents with them that have resulted in their deaths (or the death of a loved one). Nevermind the fact that they were acting like idiots and weren't properly trained and/or impaired at the time of the accident.



Atlas is young. A LOT of young guys have this attitude towards marriage. I'd be very, very surprised if he's still singing the same tune in 10 years... much less 20.

It amazes me how many of them think that the relationship that you and your husband have is about as likely as seeing a unicorn.

Is it really asking THAT much for two people to trust and respect each other??

I suppose your right, but dear Lord must we beat this dead horse over and over...if you see no up swing in marriage, don't marry....it is not some mythical Leave it to Beaver life style it is hard work with great reward when done well. The successful marriages of yesteryear consisted of two incredibly strong people, willing to do what it took to get the job done...where are these people in our young today?

[Ecnewyx]

You're willing to believe 30-50 % of women cheat on their partners but not 10% of children being born to illegitimate fathers?

What? I can believe and accept that completely. But it is not an argument against marriage because I do not believe that 100% of children being born illegitimately are being born to husbands in marriages. That's clearly not the case, which is why I directed you to paternityfraud.com.

See the difference?

If 10% of children in marriages are illegitimate compared to 0% outside of marriage then yes, that is a strike against marriage.

If 5% of children in marriages are illegitimate compared to 5% outside of marriage then I don't think you can say that marriage is any better or worse in regard to this issue.

If 2% of children in marriages are illegitimate compared to 8% outside of marriage -- which would make the most logical sense, by the way -- then your argument that this is a strike against marriage goes straight into the ****ter. And if it's not a strike against marriage, then why did you bring it up in this thread as an argument against marriage?

Can I not show my commitment in other ways besides marriage? I guess I'm asking why there's a need to marry, as though it somehow makes our relationship better.

Of course you can! There isn't a need for marriage. It doesn't make your relationship better if you don't think it will make it better. Plenty of people, however, feel otherwise.

But there is nothing inherent in marriage that betters or worsens your relationship.

[guvanata2]

I suppose your right, but dear Lord must we beat this dead horse over and over...if you see no up swing in marriage, don't marry....it is not some mythical Leave it to Beaver life style it is hard work with great reward when done well. The successful marriages of yesteryear consisted of two incredibly strong people, willing to do what it took to get the job done...where are these people in our young today?

Nonexistent

[guvanata2]

What? I can believe and accept that completely. But it is not an argument against marriage because I do not believe that 100% of children being born illegitimately are being born to husbands in marriages. That's obviously not the case, which is why I directed you to paternityfraud.com.

See the difference?

If 10% of children in marriages were illegitimate compared to 0% outside of marriage then yes, that is a strike against marriage.

If 5% of children in marriages are illegitimate compared to 5% outside of marriage then I don't think you can say that marriage is any better or worse in regard to this issue.

If 2% of children in marriages are illegitimate compared to 8% outside of marriage -- which would make the most logical sense, by the way -- then your argument that this is a strike against marriage goes straight into the ****ter.

I like your logic. Makes sense.

[nvrstopworking]

I suppose your right, but dear Lord must we beat this dead horse over and over...if you see no up swing in marriage, don't marry....it is not some mythical Leave it to Beaver life style it is hard work with great reward when done well. The successful marriages of yesteryear consisted of two incredibly strong people, willing to do what it took to get the job done...where are these people in our young today?

Our society today is all about "self-gratification by any means necessary".

No sense of community. No trust. No respect. No common courtesy. Just "Get yours and GTFO".

Growing up your idols might have been Martin Luther King, JFK, Ghandi etc... who do kids look to these days? Who does the media sensationalize? Paris freaking Hilton and the Jersey Shore boys.

Is it surprising that they have farged up values and can't get along with one another?

I honestly think that Reality TV was probably the single worst thing to ever happen to television.

[goodthings]

...The successful marriages of yesteryear consisted of two incredibly strong people, willing to do what it took to get the job done...where are these people in our young today?

those people of yesteryear had negative consequences of failed marriage, negative views froma moralistic society/stigma. for the woman, a life of destituion and hardship. these things no longer exist.
for men, it is a legal system that defies logic, loaded against you, for women, they can bail at any time, screw around and still come out smelling of roses.
there is no imperative for women in particular, to put in the hard work.

[JohnnyJenkins]

If Lady Gaga walks in my front door and demands we get married, yeah, I'd do it.

Otherwise, it would take one hell of a woman to get me to consider it.

[mydawgs]

Our society today is all about "self-gratification by any means necessary".

No sense of community. No trust. No respect. No common courtesy.

Growing up your idols might have been Martin Luther King, JFK, Ghandi etc... who do kids look to these days? Who does the media sensationalize? Paris freaking Hilton and the Jersey Shore boys.

Is it surprising that they have farged up values and can't get along with one another?

I honestly think that Reality TV was probably the single worst thing to ever happen to television.

I love your insight!!!! MLK was a favorite of mine, but my hero and idol was my Dad...left an abusive home at 13, road with a motorcycle gang until he joined the Army at 15, got caught for being to young and thrown out joined the AF at 16....

He became a high powered executive and a kick ass father...4 sons and a daughter, he and my mother gave me a beautiful childhood...I suppose both are my heros.....

[Ecnewyx]

Growing up your idols might have been Martin Luther King, JFK, Ghandi etc... who do kids look to these days? Who does the media sensationalize? Paris freaking Hilton and the Jersey Shore boys.

Strong nostalgia goggles. Because people didn't idolize Marilyn Monroe? Or James Dean? Or the Fonz?

[mydawgs]

those people of yesteryear had negative consequences of failed marriage, negative views froma moralistic society/stigma. for the woman, a life of destituion and hardship. these things no longer exist.
for men, it is a legal system that defies logic, loaded against you, for women, they can bail at any time, screw around and still come out smelling of roses.
there is no imperative for women in particular, to put in the hard work.

Not sure what you mean by imperative...but today I see lack of desire to "make it work" from both sexes, the consequence for the man is far more devstating when this happens

[mydawgs]

Strong nostalgia goggles. Because people didn't idolize Marilyn Monroe? Or James Dean? Or the Fonz?

Ha my husband idolized JD!!!!!

[nvrstopworking]

Strong nostalgia goggles. Because people didn't idolize Marilyn Monroe? Or James Dean? Or the Fonz?

LOL.... true enough. And Elvis etc... I think you catch my meaning though.

I'm pretty sure that most kids back then had some aspirations that went beyond "getting pi$$ed, partying and smashing every night".... that was the 70s! But at least they had hippie love and there wasn't any rage!

[Ecnewyx]

LOL.... true enough. And Elvis etc... I think you catch my meaning though.

I'm pretty sure that most kids back then had some aspirations that went beyond "getting pi$$ed, partying and smashing every night".... that was the 70s! But at least they had hippie love and there wasn't any rage!

I think that's just every generation thinking the following generation is the worst. I feel that way as well, but I'm still pretty sure most kids today still have aspirations that go beyond "getting pissed, partying, and smashing every night".

[guvanata2]

LOL.... true enough. And Elvis etc... I think you catch my meaning though.

I'm pretty sure that most kids back then had some aspirations that went beyond "getting pi$$ed, partying and smashing every night".... that was the 70s! But at least they had hippie love and there wasn't any rage!

Well I don't look up to idiots like the Jersey Shore guys -> I look up to people like GSP who are great fighters but are also very respectful and not egomaniacs. People like Shihan Andy Hug (The Blue Eyed Samurai), who was a legend. Very sad he died so young. But at least he died in his prime.



Not only that but my fight style is almost exactly the same as Andy's minus the axe kicks.

Bruce Lee of course, but I think he was a little cocky.

[NOVA888]

People who are blindly pro-marriage have never answered the following question to my satisfaction:

What does the institution of marriage offer that a committed, long-term relationship does not, aside from tax benefits?

I'm pretty open-minded and willing to change my views.

I told you I wanted to settle down with a girl someday. I just don't want to get married. I can do everything in a committed relationship you can do in your future marriage, but without the title and the risk.

You sound like a chick: "never let her get close?" I don't have to marry a girl to be close with her. If the best chick I ever met insisted that she couldn't accept my commitment to her without a ring, I would know that she's not the one for me to spend the rest of my life with.

Sorry for rambling and such a long post, but this topic is one that I'm passionate about.

I'm pro-marriage, which is why I'm also frustrated and angered by the skewed laws that punish men as a result of marriage. That's why we have threads like this one, because marriage is often very painful for men. Where are the benefits, and are these even worth the risks? Another risk is that the amazing chick that cleared all the right hurdles during the dating phase, might one day transform into the marital shrike, the woman that offers more pain than pleasure/partnership. The woman that keeps her man under her thumb, in the legal sense because she's aware of her legal power.

I don't know what to say, really. I adore marriage, but despise what it's become. I despise what it does to many women, as it offers us too much power--corrupting many women by default. Same with the power that some other cultures offer to married men, but not to married women. I also despise what Westernized marriage does to men--it deprives men of the power they had before tying the knot. But this is what eventually takes place when the laws are skewed to favor one gender over the other, there's a much stronger potential for all gender dealings to become corrupt.

I also can't say with a clear conscience that men are to blame for the women they choose to marry, because IMO, even if a man married the most evil woman on earth, the most self-centered, choleric beast--she should not be able to wield such legal power within the marriage. No man, no matter how dumb or blind should have to suffer these harsh marital laws that punish married men and fathers as if they were criminals. It's the same IMO, that no woman 'deserves' to be brutally raped, even if she's the dumbest tard on two legs. Choosing a woman wisely helps, but it's not the silver bullet. These are the things I take issue with. And these are most likely the same things that have jaded men into not marrying. Inasmuch as I'm saddened by the hate & skepticism toward marriage, I must admit that I also understand where men are coming from.

To answer your original question--marriage is a business contract IMO. A legal contract that's on paper as opposed to a handshake deal. One where both man and woman have equal rights within the business, and not one person is able to act as a free agent, or to legally abuse or censure the rights of their business partner. It's something that both parties agree to make work, and to hold up their end of the deal. And if for any reason that contract must be broken, BOTH parties should suffer equally. No financial retributions should be paid whatsoever, everything split 50/50, and the children must be handled as gently as possible. Venom cannot be spoon fed to the children, or that's perceived as abuse.

That's my take, and what I live by. My man must have a voice and rights within the marriage. So I literally have to curb my inner bitch, and remain mindful that I never abuse the legal power that all Westernized women are awarded by birthright.

If I had a son, I'd make him aware of all that I know. All the things that women keep secret (your minds would be blown), and the things we're capable of as the 'fairer' sex. He'd most likely be confronted with marriage, so I'd try and prepare him for what he'd inevitably face. I'd make him aware of all the traps, including the increasingly corrupt laws that unfairly support my gender. I'd also teach him how to tie knots with women (to commit), but how to make those knots a lot easier to slip out of legally. There are ways, but they're exceptionally crafty, mildly unethical, and require early planning. The greatest tool a man has is his brain, and the weakest links are his heart and his penis (the last two are dominated easily by most women). And since I am a woman after all, there's no one more knowledgeable in regard to potential female corruption than a female.

Bottom line--All men should beware and take massive precautions when signing any legal deals with women. As an indicator, even putting one's penis inside of a woman has legal implications these days. So try and think beyond that. And this is coming from a female that believes and cherishes marriage.

[nvrstopworking]

I think that's just every generation thinking the following generation is the worst. I feel that way as well, but I'm still pretty sure most kids today still have aspirations that go beyond "getting pissed, partying, and smashing every night".

True.... that's how I know I'm getting old... lulz... but I think that there's been a definite shift in this younger generation that's a bit different than previous ones. Again... I point to common courtesy and respect. There also seems to be HUGE push towards "entitlement" (wanting everything for doing nothing) more so now than ever before.

There are still good kids out there but man.. they seem like the exception now rather than the norm. The stories that some of my High School teacher friends tell me just frighten me.

[DERJEVPOO]

All the things that women keep secret (your minds would be blown)

Will you enlighten us with some examples please?

[jacketfan]

the older you get...the amount of dateable non-fat girls starts going way down. while you can still date younger, not that many 22-25 year olds are going to be that receptive to a guy in his mid to late 30s.

[goodthings]

Sorry for rambling and such a long post, but this topic is one that I'm passionate about.

I'm pro-marriage, which is why I'm also frustrated and angered by the skewed laws that punish men as a result of marriage. That's why we have threads like this one, because marriage is often very painful for men. Where are the benefits, and are these even worth the risks? Another risk is that the amazing chick that cleared all the right hurdles during the dating phase, might one day transform into the marital shrike, the woman that offers more pain than pleasure/partnership. The woman that keeps her man under her thumb, in the legal sense because she's aware of her legal power.

I don't know what to say, really. I adore marriage, but despise what it's become. I despise what it does to many women, as it offers us too much power--corrupting many women by default. Same with the power that some other cultures offer to married men, but not to married women. I also despise what Westernized marriage does to men--it deprives men of the power they had before tying the knot. But this is what eventually takes place when the laws are skewed to favor one gender over the other, there's a much stronger potential for all gender dealings to become corrupt.

I also can't say with a clear conscience that men are to blame for the women they choose to marry, because IMO, even if a man married the most evil woman on earth, the most self-centered, choleric beast--she should not be able to wield such legal power within the marriage. No man, no matter how dumb or blind should have to suffer these harsh marital laws that punish married men and fathers as if they were criminals. It's the same IMO, that no woman 'deserves' to be brutally raped, even if she's the dumbest tard on two legs. Choosing a woman wisely helps, but it's not the silver bullet. These are the things I take issue with. And these are most likely the same things that have jaded men into not marrying. Inasmuch as I'm saddened by the hate & skepticism toward marriage, I must admit that I also understand where men are coming from.

To answer your original question--marriage is a business contract IMO. A legal contract that's on paper as opposed to a handshake deal. One where both man and woman have equal rights within the business, and not one person is able to act as a free agent, or to legally abuse or censure the rights of their business partner. It's something that both parties agree to make work, and to hold up their end of the deal. And if for any reason that contract must be broken, BOTH parties should suffer equally. No financial retributions should be paid whatsoever, everything split 50/50, and the children must be handled as gently as possible. Venom cannot be spoon fed to the children, or that's perceived as abuse.

That's my take, and what I live by. My man must have a voice and rights within the marriage. So I literally have to curb my inner bitch, and remain mindful that I never abuse the legal power that all Westernized women are awarded by birthright.

If I had a son, I'd make him aware of all that I know. All the things that women keep secret (your minds would be blown), and the things we're capable of as the 'fairer' sex. He'd most likely be confronted with marriage, so I'd try and prepare him for what he'd inevitably face. I'd make him aware of all the traps, including the increasingly corrupt laws that unfairly support my gender. I'd also teach him how to tie knots with women (to commit), but how to make those knots a lot easier to slip out of legally. There are ways, but they're exceptionally crafty, mildly unethical, and require early planning. The greatest tool a man has is his brain, and the weakest links are his heart and his penis (the last two are dominated easily by most women). And since I am a woman after all, there's no one more knowledgeable in regard to potential female corruption than a female.

Bottom line--All men should beware and take massive precautions when signing any legal deals with women. As an indicator, even putting one's penis inside of a woman has legal implications these days. So try and think beyond that. And this is coming from a female that believes and cherishes marriage.

repped again, if I could, Im beginning to think you are not female

[guvanata2]

Sorry for rambling and such a long post, but this topic is one that I'm passionate about.

I'm pro-marriage, which is why I'm also frustrated and angered by the skewed laws that punish men as a result of marriage. That's why we have threads like this one, because marriage is often very painful for men. Where are the benefits, and are these even worth the risks? Another risk is that the amazing chick that cleared all the right hurdles during the dating phase, might one day transform into the marital shrike, the woman that offers more pain than pleasure/partnership. The woman that keeps her man under her thumb, in the legal sense because she's aware of her legal power.

I don't know what to say, really. I adore marriage, but despise what it's become. I despise what it does to many women, as it offers us too much power--corrupting many women by default. Same with the power that some other cultures offer to married men, but not to married women. I also despise what Westernized marriage does to men--it deprives men of the power they had before tying the knot. But this is what eventually takes place when the laws are skewed to favor one gender over the other, there's a much stronger potential for all gender dealings to become corrupt.

I also can't say with a clear conscience that men are to blame for the women they choose to marry, because IMO, even if a man married the most evil woman on earth, the most self-centered, choleric beast--she should not be able to wield such legal power within the marriage. No man, no matter how dumb or blind should have to suffer these harsh marital laws that punish married men and fathers as if they were criminals. It's the same IMO, that no woman 'deserves' to be brutally raped, even if she's the dumbest tard on two legs. Choosing a woman wisely helps, but it's not the silver bullet. These are the things I take issue with. And these are most likely the same things that have jaded men into not marrying. Inasmuch as I'm saddened by the hate & skepticism toward marriage, I must admit that I also understand where men are coming from.

To answer your original question--marriage is a business contract IMO. A legal contract that's on paper as opposed to a handshake deal. One where both man and woman have equal rights within the business, and not one person is able to act as a free agent, or to legally abuse or censure the rights of their business partner. It's something that both parties agree to make work, and to hold up their end of the deal. And if for any reason that contract must be broken, BOTH parties should suffer equally. No financial retributions should be paid whatsoever, everything split 50/50, and the children must be handled as gently as possible. Venom cannot be spoon fed to the children, or that's perceived as abuse.

That's my take, and what I live by. My man must have a voice and rights within the marriage. So I literally have to curb my inner bitch, and remain mindful that I never abuse the legal power that all Westernized women are awarded by birthright.

If I had a son, I'd make him aware of all that I know. All the things that women keep secret (your minds would be blown), and the things we're capable of as the 'fairer' sex. He'd most likely be confronted with marriage, so I'd try and prepare him for what he'd inevitably face. I'd make him aware of all the traps, including the increasingly corrupt laws that unfairly support my gender. I'd also teach him how to tie knots with women (to commit), but how to make those knots a lot easier to slip out of legally. There are ways, but they're exceptionally crafty, mildly unethical, and require early planning. The greatest tool a man has is his brain, and the weakest links are his heart and his penis (the last two are dominated easily by most women). And since I am a woman after all, there's no one more knowledgeable in regard to potential female corruption than a female.

Bottom line--All men should beware and take massive precautions when signing any legal deals with women. As an indicator, even putting one's penis inside of a woman has legal implications these days. So try and think beyond that. And this is coming from a female that believes and cherishes marriage.

You should come to a university like Duke and teach as a marriage/love/gender studies professor. (semisrs)

[nvrstopworking]

Sorry for rambling and such a long post, but this topic is one that I'm passionate about.

I'm pro-marriage, which is why I'm also frustrated and angered by the skewed laws that punish men as a result of marriage. That's why we have threads like this one, because marriage is often very painful for men. Where are the benefits, and are these even worth the risks? Another risk is that the amazing chick that cleared all the right hurdles during the dating phase, might one day transform into the marital shrike, the woman that offers more pain than pleasure/partnership. The woman that keeps her man under her thumb, in the legal sense because she's aware of her legal power.

I don't know what to say, really. I adore marriage, but despise what it's become. I despise what it does to many women, as it offers us too much power--corrupting many women by default. Same with the power that some other cultures offer to married men, but not to married women. I also despise what Westernized marriage does to men--it deprives men of the power they had before tying the knot. But this is what eventually takes place when the laws are skewed to favor one gender over the other, there's a much stronger potential for all gender dealings to become corrupt.

I also can't say with a clear conscience that men are to blame for the women they choose to marry, because IMO, even if a man married the most evil woman on earth, the most self-centered, choleric beast--she should not be able to wield such legal power within the marriage. No man, no matter how dumb or blind should have to suffer these harsh marital laws that punish married men and fathers as if they were criminals. It's the same IMO, that no woman 'deserves' to be brutally raped, even if she's the dumbest tard on two legs. Choosing a woman wisely helps, but it's not the silver bullet. These are the things I take issue with. And these are most likely the same things that have jaded men into not marrying. Inasmuch as I'm saddened by the hate & skepticism toward marriage, I must admit that I also understand where men are coming from.

To answer your original question--marriage is a business contract IMO. A legal contract that's on paper as opposed to a handshake deal. One where both man and woman have equal rights within the business, and not one person is able to act as a free agent, or to legally abuse or censure the rights of their business partner. It's something that both parties agree to make work, and to hold up their end of the deal. And if for any reason that contract must be broken, BOTH parties should suffer equally. No financial retributions should be paid whatsoever, everything split 50/50, and the children must be handled as gently as possible. Venom cannot be spoon fed to the children, or that's perceived as abuse.

That's my take, and what I live by. My man must have a voice and rights within the marriage. So I literally have to curb my inner bitch, and remain mindful that I never abuse the legal power that all Westernized women are awarded by birthright.

If I had a son, I'd make him aware of all that I know. All the things that women keep secret (your minds would be blown), and the things we're capable of as the 'fairer' sex. He'd most likely be confronted with marriage, so I'd try and prepare him for what he'd inevitably face. I'd make him aware of all the traps, including the increasingly corrupt laws that unfairly support my gender. I'd also teach him how to tie knots with women (to commit), but how to make those knots a lot easier to slip out of legally. There are ways, but they're exceptionally crafty, mildly unethical, and require early planning. The greatest tool a man has is his brain, and the weakest links are his heart and his penis (the last two are dominated easily by most women). And since I am a woman after all, there's no one more knowledgeable in regard to potential female corruption than a female.

Bottom line--All men should beware and take massive precautions when signing any legal deals with women. As an indicator, even putting one's penis inside of a woman has legal implications these days. So try and think beyond that. And this is coming from a female that believes and cherishes marriage.

Guys.... THIS is what I'm talking about! There ARE women like THIS out there! You've seen 2 now (mydawgs and NOVA) both from different generations but equally intelligent and aware of what a good relationship is supposed to be like (yeah, yeah fine a little WK'ing never killed anyone).

I've met women like this before. My last 2 gfs were this way... maybe that's why I'm "deluded" enough to think that it's not such a task to find rational women. But it just comes down to shying away from the Princesses and giving your time to woman who are WORTH it. Women who aren't out looking for a "free ride" or a slave to control.... women who are looking for a PARTNER to go through life with... someone they can count on... and someone who can BE counted on.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that it has to be incredibly fulfilling to find that woman and call her your own for the rest of your days.

Cheesy? Maybe... but that's what I believe. Call me a dreamer.

[Mitchelha]

Just spending the rest of their life with multiple gf's until they're almost 40 and then marrying a 25 year old chick?

[guvanata2]

Guys.... THIS is what I'm talking about! There ARE women like THIS out there! You've seen 2 now (mydawgs and NOVA) both from different generations but equally intelligent and aware of what a good relationship is supposed to be like (yeah, yeah fine a little WK'ing never killed anyone).

I've met women like this before. My last 2 gfs were this way... maybe that's why I'm "deluded" enough to think that it's not such a task to find rational women. But it just comes down to shying away from the Princesses and giving your time to woman who are WORTH it. Women who aren't out looking for a "free ride" or a slave to control.... women who are looking for a PARTNER to go through life with... someone they can count on... and someone who can BE counted on.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that it has to be incredibly fulfilling to find that woman and call her your own for the rest of your days.

Cheesy? Maybe... but that's what I believe. Call me a dreamer.

Most of us have been hopeless romantics once upon a time. But wait if your previous two girlfriends were like this... why are you no longer boyfriend/girlfriend?

[Ecnewyx]

Guys.... THIS is what I'm talking about! There ARE women like THIS out there! You've seen 2 now (mydawgs and NOVA) both from different generations but equally intelligent and aware of what a good relationship is supposed to be like (yeah, yeah fine a little WK'ing never killed anyone).

I've met women like this before. My last 2 gfs were this way... maybe that's why I'm "deluded" enough to think that it's not such a task to find rational women. But it just comes down to shying away from the Princesses and giving your time to woman who are WORTH it. Women who aren't out looking for a "free ride" or a slave to control.... women who are looking for a PARTNER to go through life with... someone they can count on... and someone who can BE counted on.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that it has to be incredibly fulfilling to find that woman and call her your own for the rest of your days.

Cheesy? Maybe... but that's what I believe. Call me a dreamer.

Jakes on you, Nova is actually a dude.

[DERJEVPOO]

Jakes on you, Nova is actually a dude.

Ya'll don't say that

[janky]

What? I'm not disputing the divorce rate. I don't agree that marriage leads to the destruction of more relationships than it supports, because you (and not you specifically) don't have the numbers to identify the number of the relationships which would have failed regardless of marriage. If anything, the fact that only 50% of marriages end in divorce compared to the number of non-marriages which end in separation seems encouraging.

I apologize, I thought that's what you were referring to.

No, but if you're arguing for tearing down an institution it'd be nice if you had something in mind to take its place.

Not tearing down, just reforming outdated principles that no longer bear relevance.

Bro - you are really passionate about this huh???

Don't get so mad I like you.. lets hug <3

How soon can you tell if the kid she is having is yours? While it's in the womb? Or do you have to wait until birth? If it's until birth are you covering some of the dr appointments until you find out?

The likelihood of your gf?? being pregnant with some other guys kid would increase quite a bit wouldn't it?

You're a smart dude... you know it's not that cut and dry.

I think too many people view open relationships as "OH SHT FREE FOR ALL!! BANG ANYONE AND EVERYONE"

NO.

There are RULES, and BOUNDARIES.

If those rules are broken - you walk away, your partner obviously wasn't mature or dedicated enough to handle that type of situation.

Rules can be whatever you agree upon;
Hell, I technically have an open relationship now.

I can't randomly just go fuk girls but I can check them out and flirt with my girl - and since she likes girls too, shes perfectly fine with bringing one home for both of us.

Outside of that, it's a normal "monogamous" (lol) relationship.

Personally, if I agreed to it, one of the FIRST things I'd put on the table is PROTECTION.
Any STD's or children, and we're over.

It's not a chaotic fest of sexual anarchy - there are rules in play and you still remain loyal to your partner - you just choose not to stifle or surpress each other's inherent sexual desires by setting boundaries to allow healthy, honest exploration.

Id like to think that there are many types of people within a society, those that influenced, those that influence, and those that live outside. Obviously its not so cut and dry and I hate to use the word sheep but lettuce be reality. I cannot take someone serious seriously when they tell me not to jwalk when there is no traffic. The only reason she could offer is that it is bad. Why am I bringing this up? In todays society we have things like libraries, internet, Human fkin beings to relate stories/info on all subject. So it is up to us to use that info to make an informed decision and if we dont we suffer the consequences.

I think that people choose to suffer the consequences if marriage because they are not making the informed decision.

We have a saying in the army for when soldiers fk up, "I can put all the bullets are your disposal, Ill even be nice and provide you with a weapon hand cleaned by myself to match, I can load it for you then place it in your hands. I can then proceed to yell at the top of my lungs while I boot fk you all day but what I cant do is make you pull the trigger". An informed soldier knows this and doesn't make the mistake. Because society says so is not an excuse, never will be and never has been. I expect a human being worth while to understand this and if they do make the mistake then learn from it.

I dont lose sleep over this matter but it has been interesting to discuss.

I'm with you bro.
I've never been one of those "well you do it cause you're supposed to" guys.
I'm all for questioning WHY, HOW, or what do I stand to gain from this?

Why do you think I still advocate the death of antiquated relationship morale, despite the excessive idiocy and rage I get from teeny bopper RH'ers?
Why do you think I patiently discuss things in great detail over 5-8 pages with everyone about the concepts?

I want people to think.
I could very well be wrong, or insane, or up my own pretentious ass. But if I am, please prove to me how so, and I will gladly apologize and reconsider factoring in your POV... yanno?

I'm all for not just "going with it", but you have to accept that the majority of our society is against us on this one, and doesn't wanna hear it. It's easier to just say "thats just how it is" and go with it, than to live against the grain choosing what is and isnt right for your own personal life.

[nvrstopworking]

Most of us have been hopeless romantics once upon a time. But wait if your previous two girlfriends were like this... why are you no longer boyfriend/girlfriend?

Because the relationships weren't perfect even though they were/are great women. Both were long-distance for one... which turned out to be a real pain in the ass.

Jakes on you, Nova is actually a dude.

Jakes on you, I'm really a chick!

[Ecnewyx]

I apologize, I thought that's what you were referring to.

Not tearing down, just reforming outdated principles that no longer bear relevance.

Bro - you are really passionate about this huh???

Don't get so mad I like you.. lets hug <3

I'm not mad. <3

I just took up the opposition because I assumed the majority of the R/H would be anti-marriage and someone needed to be pro-marriage. (Although I have nothing against the idea of marriage; I just find people to be idiots generally and incapable of making intelligent decisions.)

[DERJEVPOO]

You're a smart dude

Pfft not sure where you got that idea

Insecure or not I personally would never be ok with that. You know through pm's I'm not even ok with that with a girl I'm barely dating.

This society works a lot different that what I was raised to believe

[janky]

I'm not mad. <3

I just took up the opposition because I assumed the majority of the R/H would be anti-marriage and someone needed to be pro-marriage. (Although I have nothing against the idea of marriage; I just find people to be idiots generally and incapable of making intelligent decisions.)

Yeah, which I think was nvrstopworking's point as well..
There's nothing wrong with marriage as a whole - its more the concept that idiots feel forced into it so they just blindly jump in and expect things to go perfect.

At that point it becomes an argument of character, and the concept of marriage becomes irrelevant - a stupid person will make stupid relationship decisions within or out of wedlock, like you said.

But I do admit that social pressures and ingrained peer pressures (family, friends, etc) are excessive, and enough to drive a relationship to a breaking point if demands aren't met.

That also creates a huge problem for marriage on a macro level.

But if two people genuinely want to pursue the union due to a happy, incredible relationship and traditional belief systems (THAT ALIGN) then by all means, go nuts!

Pfft not sure where you got that idea

Insecure or not I personally would never be ok with that. You know through pm's I'm not even ok with that with a girl I'm barely dating.

This society works a lot different that what I was raised to believe

Typically open relationships are a concept explored further into a relationship. You would never START a relationship as "open", that'd just be a fuk buddy.

the concept is usually discussed years into a strong relationship with an unshakable core. It's also usually discussed mostly to spice up the sex life - and both parties view it as such. You're not deviating from your partner or from your "relationship", you're just exploring some extracurricular sex to satiate a primal instinct.
It's healthy, IMO...
No different than swingers or couples that have threesomes. Just takes some security, trust, and an open mind.

I get it though, it's definitely NOT for everyone. Hell, just talking about it on the misc makes me feel like I'm trying to sell a gold-plated satanic bible to a poverty-ridden catholic family.

Gotta do what you feel is right, I just like to present food for thought.


I also think it's funny that people are so scared of cheating, and so miserable in long-term sexless marriages, but you even say the words "open relationship" and its just GTFO YOU SATANIC MONSTER! HELL NO!



to each their own...