actual natural bodybuilding is a pointless pursuit of a pipe dream

[BrawnySwoleman]

None. It's the fact that the person has found a way to effectively isolate his target muscle with the right kind of education. srs.

I know guys in the gym that are ****ing jacked only rowing and squatting 225 tops and one of the biggest mofos I've seen IRL. I only curl 10s and do 40lbs on skull crushers and have 17 inch arms. I only bench 180 tops and have a chest bigger than several buddies of mine who bench 225+. It's all about mind=muscle connection.

[Ken-O]

Cliffs of thread:

-People that actually look like they lift and they have been serious about lifting for at least more than 2 years know whats up and agree with the OP.
-People that have been lifting for a few months, people without avis or closet juicers claim you can look like Greg Plitt naturally with just enough dedication, hardwork and all that bullcrap


Thats it, choose your side wisely...

[kungfubro]

agreed with this tall mexican

Cliffs of thread:

-People that actually look like they lift and they have been serious about lifting for at least more than 2 years know whats up and agree with the OP.
-People that have been lifting for a few months, people without avis or closet juicers claim you can look like Greg Plitt naturally with just enough dedication, hardwork and all that bullcrap


Thats it, choose your side wisely...

[b4disaster]

These threads always are so ridiculous. There is no right or wrong answer to this question. I achieved a huge amount while I was natural. I got over 200 lbs, and stayed well under 10% bf. So if your training is good, your rest is sufficient, and your macros are being met, you grow. Period. Your genetics will determine how you will grow. You can't change that. Once I started using bicycles, I blew up. But I had already gotten to 205 lbs naturally at 8% bf, and all of my lifts were very respectable. So don't tell me that you can't grow naturally. You CAN grow naturally for years, and if you are intelligent, you will take advantage of those first few years and train hard, and eat well so you can max out your potential.

And a word to the wise: Anybody who can't grow naturally is doing it wrong, and they are not ready for a bicycle. You will crash if you know what I'm saying. Your cycle will be unsuccesful. Learn how to grow naturally, and do it for years. Then you will understand your physiology, and you will have built a strong foundation. Then you can have a smooth bicycle ride.

[Clean]

Those who can, do. Those you can't, don't.

The #1 thing seperating those with a good physique from those who don't is dedication. Genetics, flawless diet, solid and consistent workout routine also play huge roles, but dedicaton in any sport or field is what seperates the successful from the failures.

The ones on here saying you can't achieve a decent physique naturally are the ones who will probably be quitters in anything they persue in life.

[Ken-O]

Those who can, do. Those you can't, don't.

The #1 thing seperating those with a good physique from those who don't is dedication. Genetics, flawless diet, solid and consistent workout routine also play huge roles, but dedicaton in any sport or field is what seperates the successful from the failures.

The ones on here saying you can't achieve a decent physique naturally are the ones who will probably be quitters in anything they persue in life.

[neosanders]

Well someone had to start this,...!! Excellent thread.

Am I disillusioned that I cannot be a freak show,..hell yeah.

However am I fitter and stronger than most 34 yr old i see in real life,...hell yeah again.

Maintaining a relatively lean muscular frame year round has its massive advantages bro-ski's,..and that alone is enough reasons to keep lifting.

If you did it just for the girls then you might as well stop and go home...and work on your "game"
If you did it for respect and self esteem you will lift iron till you can, well into old age,..that's what I am hoping to do.

An Oh !! for those who said you cannot make progress if you are older than 30 Not true,..I am stronger and bigger than I ever was in my early twenties.

[Tank-guy]

****kk this OP just coz u got **** genetics and u've gained **** over 9 years it doesnt mean every natural bodybuilder cannot get past 16" arms shredded. fkn shiit kunt, claims every big kunt unatty. Like i said before i KNOW heaps of nattys that have over 16 inch arms shredded ded fkn srs. Don't let this kuunt screw u nattys over. It is very possible to get 16 + arms shredded naturally.
http://www.youtube.com/user/roughnec...98/1bTGwzHe33k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBtEN9ww9Zg this guy i know IRL so i know for sure he is fkn nattyyyyYyYy oright ***ogt kunnt OP?
OH and id ont give a **** about reps. made this account to answer something and unfortunately everybody disagreed so yeh watever

[abdii]

GH15 is so extreme and has used steroids so he also doesnt have the right to put down natural training like that.

Stick with alan aragon/Lylemcdonald and casey butt for natural bbing/training.

[jack_of_all]

recent pics (6' tall so midgets don't start talking). maybe now the idiots can shut up since your avatars show inferior development (in b4 lol fail for 9 years, in 2 years i'll blow you away etc etc, this is what always happens on message boards which is why it's even pointless to post pics for a defensive delusional crowd who won't grasp reality)

I'm honestly a little confused here... OP, what the hell were you expecting to look like? You look like you could play D1 football, and although your oly background shows in somewhat underdeveloped shoulder girdle, it's not like it looks weird or something. I'd say you did pretty good.

When we talk delusional natty, do you mean people thinking they can look like Ronnie Coleman? IMO you have serious psychological issues if you think you need to be much more built than OP, it's not just women who find the pro look gross, it's employers, friends, and family. Unless you like hanging out with fetish homosexuals, or want to shave several years off the journey (and maybe your life) by pinning and using **** like clen then there's no reason not to stay natty.

Like I say, WTF were you expecting when you started?

Also, what kind of lifts did you/do you have in your sn & c&j. And why'd you quit?

Lastly, isn't it just as much a fallacy to disregard anyone who is heavily built as lying about being natty (I'm not talking about juicergraham here though). And also, what do we collectively mean by natty--lifetime natty? And natural with respect to what? There things like clen that will get someone to an unimaginable level of leanness that are not steroids, but are drugs. Hell, geranamine is banned by WADA, but is a potentially helpful preworkout stimulant and is still legal--is one still natural if they've taken jack3d, which would ban them from NCAA and any olympic competition were they piss tested? Not like it makes much difference, but where do we draw the line on the slippery slope?

[VaraTrucha]

Cliffs of thread:

-People that actually look like they lift and they have been serious about lifting for at least more than 2 years know whats up and agree with the OP.
-People that have been lifting for a few months, people without avis or closet juicers claim you can look like Greg Plitt naturally with just enough dedication, hardwork and all that bullcrap


Thats it, choose your side wisely...

too much truth. repd

[blkbelt42]

I've been ****ing your mother since I was 13 and giving your dad handjobs while you were picking your anus in Algebra class

u need new hobbies

[lovesharlots]

200 lbs my ass. you're probably 135 dry you little twirp
gain some mass and hold on to your "precious abs" and and then talk ****.
until then, have fun hanging without the big boys
how much do you even bench? I bench 350 for reps. You probably cant even rep 225.
How much do you squat? I squatted 405 for a double just the other day
What are your credentials? im working on a double major. im sure you just have single major or arent even going to college.

real talk punk, nobody in the real world really gives a rats ass about your skinny little bitch ass "Aesthetic" physique.
have fun never playing with the big boys.

who is this fraudin bastard even talking to

[lovesharlots]

I'm honestly a little confused here... OP, what the hell were you expecting to look like? You look like you could play D1 football, and although your oly background shows in somewhat underdeveloped shoulder girdle, it's not like it looks weird or something. I'd say you did pretty good.

When we talk delusional natty, do you mean people thinking they can look like Ronnie Coleman? IMO you have serious psychological issues if you think you need to be much more built than OP, it's not just women who find the pro look gross, it's employers, friends, and family. Unless you like hanging out with fetish homosexuals, or want to shave several years off the journey (and maybe your life) by pinning and using **** like clen then there's no reason not to stay natty.

Like I say, WTF were you expecting when you started?

Also, what kind of lifts did you/do you have in your sn & c&j. And why'd you quit?

Lastly, isn't it just as much a fallacy to disregard anyone who is heavily built as lying about being natty (I'm not talking about juicergraham here though). And also, what do we collectively mean by natty--lifetime natty? And natural with respect to what? There things like clen that will get someone to an unimaginable level of leanness that are not steroids, but are drugs. Hell, geranamine is banned by WADA, but is a potentially helpful preworkout stimulant and is still legal--is one still natural if they've taken jack3d, which would ban them from NCAA and any olympic competition were they piss tested? Not like it makes much difference, but where do we draw the line on the slippery slope?

*that kind of delusional is rare, i'm talking about the "sure you can't look like ronnie but you can build 18" lean arms" delusional (butbutbut i went from 13 to 15" in a year, expect 18" arms next year!!! )
*I was expecting to look like the local lying roiders at my gym with physiques like graham, they always told me what he is telling the misc "work hard, eat right, persevere and you will achieve this physique"
*best snatch 110kg best clean and jerk 135kg, i quit because without drugs you can't achieve much beyond that point, maybe bust your ass and all your joint to achiebe 130kg snatch 160clean and jerk (best case scenario) on the condition you bulk up to fat as **** (like i said without drugs) coach will bitch all day everyday about lack of progress, at the same time says drugs are bad and expects miracles to happen
*big muscles + low bodyfat = hormones, it's a physiological fact that natural testosterone is inadequate to grow big muscles no matter how hard you try. when i say big muscles i mean the guy looks obviously like a bodybuilder, not like he plays sports and is lean

[Bones98]

Location: California.

Come at me, brah! Let's train so I can prove it to you. I'll even show what secret I use that let's me use light weights to get huge without dat dere cell tech.

Serious, if you're in SoCal. Let's train.

[apolloman]

Dont know whats going on ITT...but ive been natty my whole life....i think i look somewhat decent.

[mindblown]

Cliffs of thread:

-People that actually look like they lift and they have been serious about lifting for at least more than 2 years know whats up and agree with the OP.
-People that have been lifting for a few months, people without avis or closet juicers claim you can look like Greg Plitt naturally with just enough dedication, hardwork and all that bullcrap


Thats it, choose your side wisely...

this

you can look good (big and lean) and be strong naturally

but if you're expecting to look like arnold without drugs you're crazy

[xXDMNKXx]

I don't even understand OPs argument anymore, he says he can't look like he lifts in a shirt but refuses to do either thing that would let him accomplish the goal.

Any coherent point he had stopped after page 2, this thread seriously should just die. Every time I come to the misc, it's on the first page lmao.
Unless you agree with his bitchy-whiny attitude, he'll flame you. I've noticed how, usually, whenever someone would give him props for his physique he'd post "YOU AGREE WITH ME RIGHT???".

He's like a hyper-religious person that looks down on everyone who doesn't share his religion. It almost seems like his goal is to get people to stop lifting, since he flames both "roiders" and "dreamers". This is a really bizarre thread. I'm leaning towards this guy being a troll.

To sum it up, he has admitted that his bench numbers are small, yet continues to bitch that you only get a big chest from roids.
So he isn't going to even bother trying to train chest harder for a few more years(presuming he's neglected it pretty much since he was 14).

Instead, he's going to just sit with his keyboard & try to drag everyone out of lifting.(he's been ranting about how lifting naturally is unhealthy for your joints and everything)

[iliketojuggle]

so brah.sensation tell the truth tell us if you ever cycled (not GH since you are natural but other substance)

lol he's not even anything special looks like he's taking pictures while pumped up in the gym bathroom

I look amazing while pumped up too, so do most people who have lifted right for a few years

[Straight2Ace]

I'm not pretending to be natural bro. I AM NATURAL! I posted this comment in another thread in response to someone saying that I wasn't natural. I feel like I need to repeat myself...

If you knew anything about me, you'd know that I'm very health consious. The only supplements that I take is protein, a multi-vitamin and fish oil. I don't compete and have no interest in gear or anything else so there's really no point in me using the stuff. Any kind of possible side effect alone is reason for me not to get into it. I never was active or played any sports growing up because of my asthma. I lift and stay in shape now to control my asthma and also because I like being big. I literally eat the same foods 6 days a week (high protein, over 230 grams a day), lift 5 days a week and only put the best in my body. Not that I have to explain myself to you but I've been lifting for 7 years next month. My body type has always been a natural mesomorph. I started lifting freshman year in college at 180lbs. 45lbs and 7 years later I now sit at 225lbs. Just like I told OP, I'm a lean bulker. I'm not a fan of both bulking and cutting so I pretty much look the same year round adding size and muscle mass as I can. I'm not sure what's so unbelievable about gaining 45lbs in 7 years? I recently updated my progress pics in my profile if you care to look (http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/ev...n=progresspics). Whether you believe me or not is honestly up to you. I've got nothing to hide. I'm proud to be natural and always will be.

LLOLO OK BRO!!!!11 Amount of times we've heard this line.

[Straight2Ace]

Cliffs of thread:

-People that actually look like they lift and they have been serious about lifting for at least more than 2 years know whats up and agree with the OP.
-People that have been lifting for a few months, people without avis or closet juicers claim you can look like Greg Plitt naturally with just enough dedication, hardwork and all that bullcrap


Thats it, choose your side wisely...

Holy **** that sums thread up perfectly.

[lovesharlots]

this

you can look good (big and lean) and be strong naturally

but if you're expecting to look like arnold without drugs you're crazy

obviously, but I'm not sure you get the point which is if you're expecting to look like graham or eva5001 without drugs you're crazy

[WRXbrah]

Comes down to a few things. Age/test levels/genetics. Some people just tend to grow a lot easier while maintaining that single digit body fat while others struggle to put on 10lbs of muscle without adding another 20lbs in fat. Its also very hard to stay motivated and consistent if you fall in the latter category. MIght as well juice.

[bailey1106]

obviously, but I'm not sure you get the point which is if you're expecting to look like graham or eva5001 without drugs you're crazy

Not getting into a fight with you but graham isnt as big as people make him out to be. Hes been training for 10+ years and most his photos are close up, upward angle shots with great lighting and probably a pump. Not saying he isnt massive cuz he some serious lean mass as well as very low bodyfat. But 18 inch arms on a 30 inch waist coupled with good photo taking skills gives the illusion he is alot bigger than he really is

[lovesharlots]

But 18 inch arms on a 30 inch waist

is all the evidence I need to know he's on hormones

[bailey1106]

is all the evidence I need to know he's on hormones

Nah i dont think so. 10+ years of training thats possible. I honestly dont give a flying fukstick one way or the other tho, hes a good photographer. Did yuou see his vids with the horrible fake tan? Tiny lookin compared to his pics.

Edit:For the record not hatin on graham, juss saiyan.

[xtremechaz]

[lovesharlots]

Nah i dont think so. 10+ years of training thats possible.

size gains decrease with every year you train. people always pretend that the longer you train the bigger you get. this is only true if you're on hormones like scooby (butbutbut he train for 28 years non stop!!!)

[eva5001]

lolol, it's complete BS though - working harder leads to LESS progress in most people. Something that genetically-gifted people have never experienced, or perhaps you're just lazy and always have to try to "work harder" to make any gains? People tend to pass on advice based on what they themselves lacked - so pussies who never had the motivation to lift much say "U GOTSTA WERK HARD AND THEN IF U WANT TO GAIN MOAR JUST WORK HARDER LOLOLOL AND THEN WORK EVEN HARDER!"
Whereas others who actually like lifting and want to lift a lot find that recovery is their problem, since their bodies just don't recover from it.

brb people on genetics make **** PTs and their experiences are worthless to the average trainee.

What are you even saying? Working harder doesn't help to improve your lifts and weak points? Maybe lifting just isn't for you. Remember that no one is forcing you to lift. If you are unhappy with your results and don't believe that working out harder will help you improve then simply stop. You don't have to do it. It's that simple. Give up and go do something that you enjoy doing instead of complaining about not being able to make progress.

Any coherent point he had stopped after page 2, this thread seriously should just die. Every time I come to the misc, it's on the first page lmao.
Unless you agree with his bitchy-whiny attitude, he'll flame you. I've noticed how, usually, whenever someone would give him props for his physique he'd post "YOU AGREE WITH ME RIGHT???".

He's like a hyper-religious person that looks down on everyone who doesn't share his religion. It almost seems like his goal is to get people to stop lifting, since he flames both "roiders" and "dreamers". This is a really bizarre thread. I'm leaning towards this guy being a troll.

To sum it up, he has admitted that his bench numbers are small, yet continues to bitch that you only get a big chest from roids.
So he isn't going to even bother trying to train chest harder for a few more years(presuming he's neglected it pretty much since he was 14).

Instead, he's going to just sit with his keyboard & try to drag everyone out of lifting.(he's been ranting about how lifting naturally is unhealthy for your joints and everything)

Pretty much this. Started out the same for me. I complimented him on his physique and he asked me if I agreed with him. When I said no, the insults and accusations followed. What a lost cause.

LLOLO OK BRO!!!!11 Amount of times we've heard this line.

No avi, no care. Do you even lift? You don't know me bro. I could care less whether you believe me or not. My life's goal is not to prove anything to you or anyone else. At the end of the day, all that matters to me is that I put in hard work and am happy with the physique that I've built. Can you say the same for yourself?

[Fever4DaFlavor]

Lol if you wanna compete you have to use drugs.....not an option. Its cool if u wanna stay natural cause body building is just a hobby...but to people like me...who take it seriously....There really is no choice. Ive been training two years natty and the only reason I haven't yet is because im doing the proper research on it and Im still making great size / strength gains natty.