Problems Doing Squat And Deadlifts With Knock Knees

[Peter_Bishop]

So I started really trying to get into deadlifts but find because I have knock knees I cant have my feet proper angle and am always readjusting the bar after every rep. Has anyone had this problem? Its been also why I cant get into squats even using the machine rack.

[KyleAaron]

You should still be able to do them, you just have to make an extra effort to keep your knees out as you go down, and as you press up from the bottom.

Almost everyone finds their knees track in as they press up and they have to concentrate on it, it's just a bit harder for you.

In most cases of "knock knees", your knees turn inwards because your external rotators are long and weak, and your internal rotators short and tight - that is, the muscles that turn your knees out are weak, the ones that turn your knees in are weak. So you strengthen the weak muscles and stretch the tight ones. Try a clamshell exercise. This will strengthen the muscles that pull your knees out.

Also do a butterfly stretch, this will loosen up the tight muscles that are turning your knees inwards.

Aside from that, as I said just concentrate on having your knees go out as you squat and deadlift. Consciously go too far out to begin with, since as you fatigue you'll forget and your knees will come in.

[grumble1]

Well, there is also the possibility that that's his skeletal structure. Surprising, since many guys are bowlegged and it's mostly women who are knockneed, but it can definitely happen. Not much you can do about that but just force your knees to track out. Must be annoying.

[mwybro]

I have knock knees as well.... it's really annoying as well.

I always catch myself turning them in even further when doing squats/deads, and I also feel it disrupts progress.

At least for squats I've learned to slightly turn out the feet, which somewhat brings the knees into a more straight-forward position.

But for deads its not so easy... I just have to keep looking in the mirror to make sure and keep turning them outwards and somewhat bent; however, looking down screws up form automatically (which is the last thing I want to do since I've had lower back surgery due to disc herniation, ugh)

[Peter_Bishop]

Thanks for posting the links to those exercises.

[KyleAaron]

Well, there is also the possibility that that's his skeletal structure.

It's not common with knock knees. As with increased kyphosis (rounded upper back, usually with shoulders rounded forwards, too), it's usually muscular, comes from habit and lifestyle.

But either way, if your posture or limbs are going THIS ---> way, then you can strengthen the muscles that pull it THAT <--- way, and stretch the muscles that pull it THIS ---> way. If it's purely muscular, you can reverse it. If it's skeletal, you can't reverse it, but you can stop it getting worse over the years. Because if you don't train, it does get worse. I experienced this with my own scoliosis.

It may not even be genuine knock knees, anyway. Maybe they just go inwards during squats and deadlifts. This is very very common, as I noted above. This is simply because the deep knee-bend of these exercises involves quads, glutes and hamstrings. But people tend to be sitting on the glutes and hams, so they become weak relative to the quads.

The body doesn't know muscles, only movement - so if you tell it do a movement, it'll get that movement happening in any way it can. What it tries to do is to use the strong muscles and not use the weak muscles so much. That's why for example on lat pulldowns or chinups you'll see people rounding their shoulders forwards as though they're trying to climb over the bar - they're bringing their pecs and front delts into it to make up for the weakness of their back.

If you bring your knees together you can use your quads more and glutes and hams less. So people with relatively strong quads and relatively weak glutes and hams will find that their knees cave in during squats and deadlifts, particularly during the press up from the bottom.

As I said, happens to everyone. So we do things like a supine hip extension, or prone brace with leg lift - this wakes up the glutes. And clamshell to strengthen the external rotators to make it easier for the person to bring the knees out. And butterfly stretch to loosen up the internal rotator muscles, the groin area. And then we go on to... squat. A lot.

When training people, I use physical cues. I put the back of my hand against the outside of their knee and say, "press your knee out against my knee as you press up out of the squat/deadlift." Otherwise it's just verbal. "Knees out."

The thing is that all of us have our own funky little movement patterns. We can consciously do things differently for a while, but then we get distracted by something else, or we get to the end of a set when we're sweating and tired - and the old movement patterns come back. This is why it's good to have a trainer, coach or experienced training partner. "Knees out, mate."

So knock knees or scoliosis or whatever are nothing special or dramatic. They're just a more extreme version of what everyone has, little individualities in their movements, little things that have to be watched so that we can make our exercises more effective.

[Peter_Bishop]

Wow that was a long description. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[SuffolkPunch]

I had this problem and ended up taking 20kg+ off my squat and starting again with form. It's frustrating but I'm glad I did it because the strength balance is much better now and my knee position is fine on all lifts except when maxing out

[PinkWeights]

it's usually muscular, comes from habit and lifestyle.

That's just not true and you're throwing out some pretty bad advice. Basically you're saying, "You're just lazy, if you worked harder, you could overcome this biological flaw you were born with," and that's utter nonsense.
It also does not get worse and it's not like your scoliosis.

It may not even be genuine knock knees, anyway.

Yeah, you probably don't have genuine scoliosis either.

So knock knees or scoliosis or whatever are nothing special or dramatic. They're just a more extreme version of what everyone has, little individualities in their movements, little things that have to be watched so that we can make our exercises more effective.

Well, I can't physically do a full squat so I guess being knock kneed is actually special enough that it effects me. A personal trainer who has such little understand of body mechanics and would rather say it's all weak muscles, has no business working with people. Especially people who pay money for the, "service."