Canadians let's be real... a coalition will ruin this country... VOTE CONSERVATIVE

[Own3r]

If Quebec's economy is so important why did they suck up 8 billion in federal transfer payments each of the last 2 years? Why do they produce less GDP per capita than Aberta, Newfoundland, British Columbia, Ontario, or Saskatchewan?

Alberta and British Columbia has more population (8 million), and are the economic engine that drives this country, and has less federal representation than your welfare state.

You have less population, contribute less financially, and still have an enormous sense of entitlement about how you make Canada's decisions.

You guys bitch Harper doesn't give a sh*t about Quebec? Why should he? Neither does the rest of the country. At least the balance is starting to shift.

I never said that Quebecs economy is something that drives the country, truth is our current provincial gov't has made some incredibly mediocre decisions which have increased the provincial deficit by a LOT. At the same time let me remind you that in the past 20 years Quebec had the smalles provincial debt, at one point it was even almost in-existent.

If Quebec would not have a veto power and would actually sign the constitution the French culture would dissapear and we would become yet another boring Anglo-Saxon territory just like the rest of Canada.

Remember what happened to Acadians and to Louisiana?

[devincanada]

Those cases come form the 70s and 80s not 21st century trials.

Also, plenty of people plead guilty for 1st degree murder over a length period of time. And it was an example of when it should be used. There have been tons of cases where evidence was at a level where a monkey could pick out who was guilty and be correct.

youre gonna have to link a case because what it seems like youre telling me is that there have been mentally sound people facing the death penalty who suddenly decided they had better shiit to do than spend time fighting for their lives in court

and even if technology is solid, corruption still exists

[Vishus]

For god's sake do not give Harper a majority

[JellyNut]

This thread again?

Usually go for Green just so they can possible get a voice in matters by winning a seat(not likely) but can't let the conservatives get a majority so going to vote liberal this time around

[Lowkeii]

WOW have i really made it into this thread before CanadaBBOY???? hes gonna have a ****in brain aneurysm when he sees this. Its gonna be lulzy watching him go off. Cant wait.

Prepare your anus OP for anti-conservative propaganda with little to no sources provided and being called a slew of slandering names the moment you try to question or disagree with him.

[engj]

I never said that Quebecs economy is something that drives the country, truth is our current provincial gov't has made some incredibly mediocre decisions which have increased the provincial deficit by a LOT. At the same time let me remind you that in the past 20 years Quebec had the smalles provincial debt, at one point it was even almost in-existent.

If Quebec would not have a veto power and would actually sign the constitution the French culture would dissapear and we would become yet another boring Anglo-Saxon territory just like the rest of Canada.

Remember what happened to Acadians and to Louisiana?

I think this is where most westerners are misunderstood. I have no problem with french canadian culture. I wont admit it often, but when I traveled through Montreal I had a great time....friendly people, and great Canadian history in that reigon.

It is the pillaging of western provinces for tax money with no federal representation that frustrates us.

If I was in Quebec I would hate what the Bloc has done. Major coorporations (Bombardier etc), and bloated government agencies have only survived because they have been artificially propped up with funds chiseled from other provinces.

Aboriginal groups use the same "cultural identity" argument to justify the billions spent on Indian Affairs every year, and you can see how they have prospered. /sarcasm

I am of the opinion that if a culture prospers at the cost of some of their historical identity so be it. You could call me financially conservative, socially moderate, and a social darwanist.


I gotts go guys, the debates been fun. Later Misk.

[TheZake]

It's about sending a message that's it's not so good to be gay. Gay marriage is another one of those things which make up a large number of other things that influence gays to be proud of their homosexuality.


Pleading guilty is one thing that constitutes capital punishement for 1st degree murder.
Large numbers of murder cases are not candidates for capital punishment as the evidence is not 100% but is rather very close to. The person is without a doubt guilty, but would you bet everything on it? Not quite.

And there was cases when there is simply enough evidence that the death penalty simply makes sense. Looks up murder trials yourself.


And you clearly don't know much about law if you think punishments are all equal for the same crime... One person will get 23 years of no parole and another will get only 10 for 2nd degree murder. One person will get 8 years another will get 3. That's how it always has been and will be.

Lolwut did i just read.. if someone pleads guilty for 1st degree murder, they should be executed?

You do realize that makes no sense whatsoever, as the reason people plead guilty is to get off on a lighter sentence... so therefore no one would ever plead guilty. Leaving the court system backed up with unecessary trials, and making it even more inefficient than it already is.

Also guity is guilty, you cant be "more guilty" or "less guilty" in law...

Also, the mandatory minimum sentence for 2nd degree murder is life without parole for at least 10 years.. dont know where youre getting 8 or 3 years from.

[youngb11]

/agree with op

[CrackBabyyy]

Amount spent on the 2 day long G20 summit by the harper government... $1 billion. Net benefit to Canada... nothing - possibly even negative since after all the human rights violations Canada did not get renewed on the security council AND got threated out of the commonwealth over the environment.

nuff said.

[blastdoors]

Are the Quebec residents in this thread who are voting for the Bloc anglos? I guess a lot has changed since I lived in Montreal (moved to Toronto in '02 for school/work), as I can't remember an anglo ever voting for the Bloc. They basically treated everyone not pure laine as second class

[Swolebraahh]

When have I ever been Liberal?

i remember you making threads about it brah ?

unless i'm cracked out right now....

[blackhatt]

Originally I thought this was a true debate.

But due to the pure stupidity of the OP, I must reclassify this as a troll thread, as I believe nobody could possibly be this dumb.

[WRX20PSI]

You guys bitch Harper doesn't give a sh*t about Quebec? Why should he? Neither does the rest of the country. At least the balance is starting to shift.

At least you're honest about it, not like the rest of the population. Remember the big ''love parade'' right before the referendum???

Are the Quebec residents in this thread who are voting for the Bloc anglos? I guess a lot has changed since I lived in Montreal (moved to Toronto in '02 for school/work), as I can't remember an anglo ever voting for the Bloc. They basically treated everyone not pure laine as second class

You got it all wrong bro, multiculturalism has changed many things across the years and it's a good thing imo

[Huke]

The fighter jets are a whole different issue. Although I believe Canada needs new jets, the ones chosen certainly are not the right choice for Canada.

Not having the G20 in downtown toronto would have paid for the whole learning passport by itself.

"That is life. One man's misery is another fortune. "

That is the whole problem with the world. Selfishness.

If it weren't for a bunch of psychotic a$$hats (which end of the political spectrum, I wonder) showing up to break windows and burn police cars, interfere with police procedure, destroy businesses, invoke fear in the Toronto community and encourage civil disobedience, then Toronto would have been a perfectly acceptable location.

But no, a bunch of idiots had to run in and ruin the show, thus justifying every penny spent on the summit.

[blackhatt]

If it weren't for a bunch of psychotic a$$hats (which end of the political spectrum, I wonder) showing up to break windows and burn police cars, interfere with police procedure, destroy businesses, invoke fear in the Toronto community and encourage civil disobedience, then Toronto would have been a perfectly acceptable location.

But no, a bunch of idiots had to run in and ruin the show, thus justifying every penny spent on the summit.

First off, the people who destroyed things werent from any political party, they were "anarchists" and wannabe thugs, mostly young kids who just wanted an excuse to destroy things.

This type of thing happens at every G20 summit, so why would they have it there KNOWING that this would happen?

Secondly, How does that it justify the BILLION spent on "security" anyhow? The police were put there on the premise of protecting property and the world leaders, but did you see them protecting any property? No, they were too busy taking civil rights away from protesters not involved in any violence. Did they protect world leaders from a credible threat? No, there was no threat, just a bunch of kids. Why should we, the taxpayers, pay A BILLION DOLLARS to protect some schmucks in government while squabbling over sending kids to school that costs much less than that, it makes no sense.

Please go.

[Huke]

First off, the people who destroyed things werent from any political party, they were "anarchists" and wannabe thugs, mostly young kids who just wanted an excuse to destroy things.

This type of thing happens at every G20 summit, so why would they have it there KNOWING that this would happen?

Secondly, How does that it justify the BILLION spent on "security" anyhow? The police were put there on the premise of protecting property and the world leaders, but did you see them protecting any property? No, they were too busy taking civil rights away from protesters not involved in any violence. Did they protect world leaders from a credible threat? No, there was no threat, just a bunch of kids.

Please go.

I didn't say the anarchists were from a particular political party. People in this thread are knocking the G20 spending like crazy, using it as an argument against the conservative party. But, who showed up at G20 and started ruining everybody's sh*t but a group representing extremist socialism (so far to the left, its right off the edge).

Why can't they have it in Toronto? Its a summit meeting to discuss economy. Why not have it in one of the most developed and culturally mixed metropolitan areas in Canada? Fear that a bunch of d*ckheads would show up is NOT a reason to refrain from holding the summit meeting in any particular area. By the same logic, you shouldn't buy yourself a nice watch, because someone might steal it.

Argument can be made that the London and Pittsburgh summits went so poorly because not enough money was spent on security. I'm glad we took a cue. It is too bad that so many people came to Toronto only to cause problems in our community (in which they had no part).

I think the police did a fine job in Toronto. Despite the number of people there, they managed to tactfully handle the situation and keep things confined to a small area of the city. If you recall, on the Friday night and following Saturday, people got away with tons of sh*t like throwing rocks, breaking windows, smashing police cars, vandalism, destruction of city property, arson etc... It wasn't until the Sunday that the hammer came down and the tear gas started flying. Too bad it took so long.

Taking civil rights away? lolwut? If the police are apprehending a criminal, and you're standing in the way antagonizing the cop, you will be arrested for interference. The same thing applies to a hundred people standing between the cops and another hundred criminals. If you were downtown that weekend when the black block showed up, and you weren't a cop, you should have expected to be stopped and possibly searched. If you get searched and they find something they don't like, or if they think you're there to incite unrest in the crowd, you should expect to be apprehended. Lettuce be real tea.

No threat? Read up on mob mentality. People get unruly very fast. A small number of rogue elements in a large group of people can make things violent in a very short period of time. The cops were there to isolate and apprehend those rogue elements, thus separating them from the larger group so that order is maintained. If there's no threat, I encourage you to put a big Conservative sign on your back and walk through the mob at the next G20. Make sure you wave and have a big smile on your face.

Well done at G20 and lol @ anyone who was there that day and is now b*tching about civil rights violations. Peaceful assembly and protest is fine, but as soon as criminal activity started in the area, common sense should take over and you should leave. You knew why you were there and you knew what could have happened. And don't tell me you didn't. Everyone was warned weeks in advance that no sh*t would be taken.

[ConiX]

As I said. Not tough enough. As long as jails are providing people with a gym, 3 square meals a day, warm cloths and a bed, people going to jail arenot going to give a single ****.

I like the part where you can't read though.

Go to jail for anything and come out looking for a job and to get on with your life and tell me all about not giving a single ****. I'll be here waiting.


I'd also like to hear anyone justifying the money spent on the G20 that could have easily been held up north like the G8 give reasoning for the fake lake or any of the other things that were built for the G20.



If there was a party that sat in the middle of all the rest I'd probably vote for them. But I'd rather vote liberal or NDP than have Harper try to make us into the USA and continue to ruin our international reputation (at least what's left of it).



Also if you don't vote and plan to bitch about anything government related plzgo

[secretlifter3]

Lolwut did i just read.. if someone pleads guilty for 1st degree murder, they should be executed?

You do realize that makes no sense whatsoever, as the reason people plead guilty is to get off on a lighter sentence... so therefore no one would ever plead guilty. Leaving the court system backed up with unecessary trials, and making it even more inefficient than it already is.

Also guity is guilty, you cant be "more guilty" or "less guilty" in law...

Also, the mandatory minimum sentence for 2nd degree murder is life without parole for at least 10 years.. dont know where youre getting 8 or 3 years from.

The discussion was about factors affecting which route to take. The Proctor murder is a perfect example. Pleaded guilty + tons of evidence showing how brutal/grisly they were.


It is about factors that = 100% guilt.

8 or 3 years was a general comment. I know 2nd degree = 10-25

[namesarehard]

Conservatives are the best choice.

Look how well our economy has done during the recession. Wasn't much of a recession where I live. Plus I don't want my taxes going to social programs for drug addicts and low lives who want to use the system to be lazy. In for a stronger harsher justice system, defense of the north and ending the long gun registry. Canada is going to be shat if any other party comes into power and wastes our money.

[hotsauce514]

I hate the fact that Canada have only 1 Right party ( conservative) and 4 left party ( Liberal, NPD, Bloc , Green ) .Why can't we have more choice in the right ?

[dandoman]

I usually vote liberal, but this time I actually read both platforms (~80 pages each). Was very disappointed with the liberal platform. Will vote conservative.

[NYRFan68]

Economically, Liberals and Conservatives are closer than most realize. Ignatieff himself is more right wing than left. Harper has some dumb policies. The whole income splitting this makes no sense.
I guess raising corporate taxes isn't the best thing, but it won't really affect small businesses.
On a social basis, I can tolerate Ignatieff way more that Harper.
Being a social liberal, and economically conservative, I'd rather vote Ignatieff who is the lesser evil anyway IMO.

I will they would just reduce income taxes to zero, and tax based on consumption anyways.
Why?
Moar economic growth, and IMO people who spend should pay more taxes, not necessarily those who earn more. Also, I think its the most fair system of taxation.

[hotsauce514]

I usually vote liberal, but this time I actually read both platforms (~80 pages each). Was very disappointed with the liberal platform. Will vote conservative.

where can I find the platform ?

[WoofieNugget]

Quebec sovereignty was NEVER intended to be a Full separation, Economically Quebec would remain bound to ottawa, in terms of currency, trade and commerce. On all other aspects Quebec was suppose to be independent. I do not think most Canadians realize how much different Quebec is from the rest of the country and how much Canada would suffer if Quebec ever fully separates.

When people ask me where I am from I say Quebec and not Canada, and I am not even a native Quebecer (1/2 german, 1/2 russian). So please do not jump to conclusions without living here or knowing what this Province is about.

I've studied Quebec history at a university level and I live in Ottawa where there is a strong Francophone population. I just think it is BS when an entire culture feels like they are so special and distinct that they don't have to participate in the rest of the country and intentionally muck up the political system.

I'd like to see how fast that the government there would come crawling back, whining about how they had no way to support themselves without the payouts they get from the federal government. What would they support themselves on?

The simple fact you would say that you tell people you are from Quebec tells me that you are one of the typical, self-entitled "oh, poor subverted culture us" residents of the province.

[WoofieNugget]

I hate the fact that Canada have only 1 Right party ( conservative) and 4 left party ( Liberal, NPD, Bloc , Green ) .Why can't we have more choice in the right ?

Look up the Wildrose Alliance. It is starting in Alberta.

[sweetblazer]

The conservative take on marijuana is enough to lose my vote. Making harsher penalties will just put more strain on the justice system. There has never been a reported death in history from it and somehow you see jailtime and ruin your life forever? Its as dangerous as advil, and they know it. It pisses me off because I know they realize it shouldn't be illegal, its just another ploy to get votes from uneducated people that still hear "weed" and think crazy hippies and heroin addicts. This is not to mention the 5 billion they could make taxing it, and that 5 bil. doesn't count the money saved on police, the justice system and jail. Nor does it count the amount of useless time wasted busting 15 year old with possession of 2 grams of marijuana, that could be spent on real criminals or otherwise. I realize this is one small thing, but its just so ridiculous. Its time for everyone to wake up and realize just because the government says something doesn't make it so, and I think this issue is one that everyone will see that.

[blackhatt]

I didn't say the anarchists were from a particular political party. People in this thread are knocking the G20 spending like crazy, using it as an argument against the conservative party. But, who showed up at G20 and started ruining everybody's sh*t but a group representing extremist socialism (so far to the left, its right off the edge).

Why can't they have it in Toronto? Its a summit meeting to discuss economy. Why not have it in one of the most developed and culturally mixed metropolitan areas in Canada? Fear that a bunch of d*ckheads would show up is NOT a reason to refrain from holding the summit meeting in any particular area. By the same logic, you shouldn't buy yourself a nice watch, because someone might steal it.

Argument can be made that the London and Pittsburgh summits went so poorly because not enough money was spent on security. I'm glad we took a cue. It is too bad that so many people came to Toronto only to cause problems in our community (in which they had no part).

I think the police did a fine job in Toronto. Despite the number of people there, they managed to tactfully handle the situation and keep things confined to a small area of the city. If you recall, on the Friday night and following Saturday, people got away with tons of sh*t like throwing rocks, breaking windows, smashing police cars, vandalism, destruction of city property, arson etc... It wasn't until the Sunday that the hammer came down and the tear gas started flying. Too bad it took so long.

Taking civil rights away? lolwut? If the police are apprehending a criminal, and you're standing in the way antagonizing the cop, you will be arrested for interference. The same thing applies to a hundred people standing between the cops and another hundred criminals. If you were downtown that weekend when the black block showed up, and you weren't a cop, you should have expected to be stopped and possibly searched. If you get searched and they find something they don't like, or if they think you're there to incite unrest in the crowd, you should expect to be apprehended. Lettuce be real tea.

No threat? Read up on mob mentality. People get unruly very fast. A small number of rogue elements in a large group of people can make things violent in a very short period of time. The cops were there to isolate and apprehend those rogue elements, thus separating them from the larger group so that order is maintained. If there's no threat, I encourage you to put a big Conservative sign on your back and walk through the mob at the next G20. Make sure you wave and have a big smile on your face.

Well done at G20 and lol @ anyone who was there that day and is now b*tching about civil rights violations. Peaceful assembly and protest is fine, but as soon as criminal activity started in the area, common sense should take over and you should leave. You knew why you were there and you knew what could have happened. And don't tell me you didn't. Everyone was warned weeks in advance that no sh*t would be taken.

You are so wrong about what happened it isnt even funny. Please take a look at what actually happened at the G20 and come back. The violent thugs were nowhere near when the police were shooting rubber bullets, tear gas and ILLEGALLY detaining people. They overstepped their mandate and performed ILLEGAL searches with no basis on any reality. They detained and assaulted people in the SAFE PROTESTING ZONE.

Why should peaceful protesters leave because a SMALL HANDFUL of people who are EASILY IDENTIFIED are causing problems? That is exactly what the police want, in fact they have used provocateurs (undercover police inciting violence) as an excuse to break up LAWFUL, PEACEFUL protests.

Anybody who thinks the police did a fine job at the G20 or that having the G20 in downtown toronto was a good idea, clearly has no idea what truly happened.

[Canuckistanian]

In my opinion, the whole Quebec deal is just like a poker bluff. They say they'll leave, we don't want the to do so, so we pay out. If we ever said, go ahead, separate, nothing would change, because they need the rest of Canada, and the US to stay afloat.

[Huke]

The conservative take on marijuana is enough to lose my vote. Making harsher penalties will just put more strain on the justice system. There has never been a reported death in history from it and somehow you see jailtime and ruin your life forever? Its as dangerous as advil, and they know it. It pisses me off because I know they realize it shouldn't be illegal, its just another ploy to get votes from uneducated people that still hear "weed" and think crazy hippies and heroin addicts. This is not to mention the 5 billion they could make taxing it, and that 5 bil. doesn't count the money saved on police, the justice system and jail. Nor does it count the amount of useless time wasted busting 15 year old with possession of 2 grams of marijuana, that could be spent on real criminals or otherwise. I realize this is one small thing, but its just so ridiculous. Its time for everyone to wake up and realize just because the government says something doesn't make it so, and I think this issue is one that everyone will see that.

If they do as poor a job at keeping marijuana out of the hands of 12 year old kids as they do cigarettes, then I will never support it. It is bad enough seeing kids smoke cigarettes. It would ruin my day bigtime to see a bunch of grade 8's walking around baked.

Roadside sobriety tests are also a concern of mine. Until a roadside sobriety test is available to every traffic cop, it won't have my support.

I don't have a problem with people smoking weed, as long as they're of an age where they can understand the health risks, and where they can be held legally accountable for their actions.

[caonima]

i'm voting for ron paul