cutting or bulking

[davidcj]

Hi could someone tell me please is 2180 calories a day considered cutting or bulking?Im 34 years old.work out 5 day,s a week.weight training.I have 17 percent fat and weigh 71.5 kg.Can i expect to gain muscle with this amount while loosing fat at the same time.I know that if i increase my cals i will gain muscle faster but will increase fat % too and i dont want that as 17% is high enough so just a little confused with this.Any advice would be appreciated.Thanks.

[andyboi]

Hi could someone tell me please is 2180 calories a day considered cutting or bulking?Im 34 years old.work out 5 day,s a week.weight training.I have 17 percent fat and weigh 71.5 kg.Can i expect to gain muscle with this amount while loosing fat at the same time.I know that if i increase my cals i will gain muscle faster but will increase fat % too and i dont want that as 17% is high enough so just a little confused with this.Any advice would be appreciated.Thanks.

need photos to really make a good call.

i'd up the calories more, I'm also 17% bf but 94.5kg and at 6"0, and I eat over 3000 calories a day with minimal cardio.

Why don't you do 30 mins cardio 3 times a week in the morning to prevent/slow down fat gain then do your weight sessions at night.

[davidcj]

need photos to really make a good call.

i'd up the calories more, I'm also 17% bf but 94.5kg and at 6"0, and I eat over 3000 calories a day with minimal cardio.

Why don't you do 30 mins cardio 3 times a week in the morning to prevent/slow down fat gain then do your weight sessions at night.

Thanks i will try that with cardio.

[coltmasterj]

It really depends on what your goals are. If you want to compete, I'd consider bulking at the higher bodyfat percentage with calories likely over 3000/day. For me, my bodyfat is over 20% right now, and have been bulking for 3 months at 3200 cals/day. When I started the bulk I was over 20% already. However, I am getting great results adding lean body mass while fatter than I'd normally like to be. I think that after a long cut, I will be glad I made the choice to bulk up, and ignored my current percentage bodyfat. I am not "dirty" bulking, and am cautious of my food choices, and expect to carry more fat over the short-term, but having enough mass to win an overall is goal #1.
If you are not planning to compete, and just want to look good, consider staying at your current calorie level. If you are coming off a layoff, you can regain muscle while losing fat until your bodyfat gets to about single digits.

[davidcj]

It really depends on what your goals are. If you want to compete, I'd consider bulking at the higher bodyfat percentage with calories likely over 3000/day. For me, my bodyfat is over 20% right now, and have been bulking for 3 months at 3200 cals/day. When I started the bulk I was over 20% already. However, I am getting great results adding lean body mass while fatter than I'd normally like to be. I think that after a long cut, I will be glad I made the choice to bulk up, and ignored my current percentage bodyfat. I am not "dirty" bulking, and am cautious of my food choices, and expect to carry more fat over the short-term, but having enough mass to win an overall is goal #1.
If you are not planning to compete, and just want to look good, consider staying at your current calorie level. If you are coming off a layoff, you can regain muscle while losing fat until your bodyfat gets to about single digits.

Some good advice thanks a mil.Think i might ignore the fat percentage for a while and just bulk and the cut later as my goal is to compete in the future so would like to gain some good mass.

[tumtum]

the calories depend on the individual... if you are losing weight on that amount.. obviously that's a cutting number for you. if you are gaining... it's bulking.

[JasonWojo]

You're not going to be able to gain muscle on that amount of calories. That calorie range is going to be diet for you. It might be enough for a female to gain muscle, but very doubtful for a man.

[ItsMrGreen]

It really depends on what your goals are. If you want to compete, I'd consider bulking at the higher bodyfat percentage with calories likely over 3000/day. For me, my bodyfat is over 20% right now, and have been bulking for 3 months at 3200 cals/day. When I started the bulk I was over 20% already. However, I am getting great results adding lean body mass while fatter than I'd normally like to be. I think that after a long cut, I will be glad I made the choice to bulk up, and ignored my current percentage bodyfat. I am not "dirty" bulking, and am cautious of my food choices, and expect to carry more fat over the short-term, but having enough mass to win an overall is goal #1.
If you are not planning to compete, and just want to look good, consider staying at your current calorie level. If you are coming off a layoff, you can regain muscle while losing fat until your bodyfat gets to about single digits.

agreed with this

[davidcj]

Thanks for the advice.iTS ALL HELPFULL

[andyboi]

FAT FTW!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha i hate having so much fat, but it's all good because I know my long term goals. ^^^^^^^ what coltmasterj said.

[tumtum]

i hear ya bro.. up to 194 and feeling faaaaaaaaaat... 4 more weeks till it's comin off

[bad53]

i hear ya bro.. up to 194 and feeling faaaaaaaaaat... 4 more weeks till it's comin off

I think 2k calaries are not enuff, add some more. If you are working really hard you wont go over 20% anyways. I started losing fat while i am gaining lean muscle at the same time.

[Zarazen]

you don't need to be at 20% bodyfat to add muscle. That is just an excuse to eat more and get fatter. Get your diet in order, heavy lifting with progressive weight increases weekly and you'll be adding to your frame.

Also don't just go with the "bump your calories to 3000"....everyone is different. If you are eating 2100 and maintaining then add to them slowly and let your body catch up....after you stall add some more calories...if you are gaining too fast then taper it down. You will regret getting your BF that high once you have to diet down.

[andyboi]

you don't need to be at 20% bodyfat to add muscle. That is just an excuse to eat more and get fatter. Get your diet in order, heavy lifting with progressive weight increases weekly and you'll be adding to your frame.

Also don't just go with the "bump your calories to 3000"....everyone is different. If you are eating 2100 and maintaining then add to them slowly and let your body catch up....after you stall add some more calories...if you are gaining too fast then taper it down. You will regret getting your BF that high once you have to diet down.

my diet is 100% on point. I get enough protein, carbs and fats and they all come from wholesome sources (not listing them, we all know what they are). I eat probably over 3,200 calories with the addition of fruit that I randomly throw in for added fibre/energy. I gain weight from this, and put on 1.7% body fat in 2 months. I find it VERY hard to gain muscle while being lean. The last time I have eaten junk food was 2007, had 8 slices of pizza and never drunk alcohol in my life.

[Zarazen]

Lean to me is under 10%...i never said you had to be lean...all i said it that 20% is high to be trying to gain muscle. You don't need to be THAT high and it just makes it that much more difficult when having to diet down for a competition.

[coltmasterj]

I don't think one's percent bodyfat has much effect on gaining muscle. It can be done at any bodyfat percentage as long as your are getting enough protein and are in caloric surplus.
You can short diet/bulk/short diet or bulk/long diet to get to about the same place. Most bodybuilders, when their bodyfat is considered "high", will diet first because they don't want to get fatter. That is the approach I have done most often, but this time, I decided to try the bulk/long diet approach to get where I want to go...just trying something different than usual to see how it works.
Once my bulk ends (currently 3400 cals/day), I will go to a maintenance level of calories using CKD to try to do recomposition before going into a traditional cut with caloric deficit.
Again, to each his own...good luck OP.

[Zarazen]

I don't think one's percent bodyfat has much effect on gaining muscle. It can be done at any bodyfat percentage as long as your are getting enough protein and are in caloric surplus.

I disagree with that. I find it hard to be gaining any type of muscle at 5% BF...i think the same could be said by a high percentage of people out there. I also don't think carrying more body fat is conducive to gaining as much muscle as you would be able to at a lower BF. The reason why I believe this is because higher body fat levels are associated with higher levels of estrogen. Body fat contains an enzyme called aromatase and this enzyme converts testosterone to estrogen. Therefore i would much rather be at a lower BF percentage (10-15%) and be in an anabolic state. Like you said though, to each their own.

[roms15]

I disagree with that. I find it hard to be gaining any type of muscle at 5% BF...i think the same could be said by a high percentage of people out there. I also don't think carrying more body fat is conducive to gaining as much muscle as you would be able to at a lower BF. The reason why I believe this is because higher body fat levels are associated with higher levels of estrogen. Body fat contains an enzyme called aromatase and this enzyme converts testosterone to estrogen. Therefore i would much rather be at a lower BF percentage (10-15%) and be in an anabolic state. Like you said though, to each their own.

i smell broscience

[Zarazen]

i smell broscience

are you kidding me? Is this the first time you've heard of higher body fat levels being in direct correlation with higher estrogen levels?

Look up Aromatase...i don't know how aromatase could be broscience. More fat cells = more aromatase = more estrogen = less testosterone. Of course the level of conversion is different in everyone and might not matter so for someone in his teens and early 20's since they generally have higher levels of testosterone to begin with but as you get older you try to maximize natural test as much as possible.

It's much easier to come into a thread and add to your post count, why don't you try looking it up first before assuming things.

[coltmasterj]

are you kidding me? Is this the first time you've heard of higher body fat levels being in direct correlation with higher estrogen levels?

Look up Aromatase...i don't know how aromatase could be broscience. More fat cells = more aromatase = more estrogen = less testosterone. Of course the level of conversion is different in everyone and might not matter so for someone in his teens and early 20's since they generally have higher levels of testosterone to begin with but as you get older you try to maximize natural test as much as possible.

It's much easier to come into a thread and add to your post count, why don't you try looking it up first before assuming things.

I agree that fat, aromatase, and estrogen levels are correlated with each other, but we have to consider the real cause and effect relationship, and that some people may have naturally higher aromatase levels than others (i.e. some natural guys can get gyno). Hence, in those individuals, I would expect a higher tendency to store fat over gaining muscle. High aromatase leads to high fat/estrogen. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying higher fat levels in the body cause high aromatase levels.

[ra2commando]

I agree that fat, aromatase, and estrogen levels are correlated with each other, but we have to consider the real cause and effect relationship, and that some people may have naturally higher aromatase levels than others (i.e. some natural guys can get gyno). Hence, in those individuals, I would expect a higher tendency to store fat over gaining muscle. High aromatase leads to high fat/estrogen. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying higher fat levels in the body cause high aromatase levels.

curious.

r there more real life examples with ppl having success at particular bf% brackets?

for some reason in this discussion first thing that comes to mind is skinny hardgainers

i've read Justin Harris recommend 10-12 is most anabolic and ditto from Iron Addict (possibly 10-14)

tx

[roms15]

are you kidding me? Is this the first time you've heard of higher body fat levels being in direct correlation with higher estrogen levels?

Look up Aromatase...i don't know how aromatase could be broscience. More fat cells = more aromatase = more estrogen = less testosterone. Of course the level of conversion is different in everyone and might not matter so for someone in his teens and early 20's since they generally have higher levels of testosterone to begin with but as you get older you try to maximize natural test as much as possible.

It's much easier to come into a thread and add to your post count, why don't you try looking it up first before assuming things.

nope. not at all.

read more bro