Taking the deficit lower... Good or bad?

[MonoDC2]

Today I decided to take my calorie deficit even lower, so tell me if this is bad... I don't care much for muscle loss as long as I don't become skinnyfat. Picture in avatar is from today.

I'm 19, 5'11, 157 lbs. I work a physical job for 3 hours a night, lift 4 days a week at the gym, and cardio twice a week. I take a multivitamin (opti-men), triple strength fish oil, and on the first week of animal cuts. I actually don't feel hungry and feel like I'm quite fed.

What I had today:
Food - Calories / Fat / Carbs / Protein
BREAKFAST
Oats - 120 / 2.5g / 20g / 4g
Egg White - 60 / 0g / 2g / 12g
Extra Virgin Olive Oil - 60 / 7g / 0 / 0

POST-WORKOUT
Whey - 120 / 1g / 4g / 24g
1 slice double fiber whole wheat bread - 70 / 1g / 16g / 3g

LUNCH
Salmon - 170 / 9g / 2g / 20g
Iceberg lettuce and green beans - Maybe 10-20 calories? Doesn't matter really.

2 Hours later
Salmon again - 170 / 9g / 2g / 20g
Iceberg lettuce

DINNER
Ground Beef - 182 / 9.4g / 0 / 22.6g
Some kinda healthy soup - I would estimate 100 calories. Low sodium stuff with beef and full of veggies.

1:40AM AFTER WORK - PHYSICAL JOB
Ground Beef - 182 / 9.4g / 0 / 22.6g
Whey - 120 / 1g / 4g / 24g

TOTALS
1264 Calories
50.3g Fat
52g Carbs
153.6g Protein

Any criticism whether good or bad will be accepted.

[KouRon]

increase your protein and carb intake.

[seniorhobo]

1264 seems so low man, how much of a deficit is this from your last diet?

[TheBlindPursuit]

Why did you decide on this deficit. You gained weight, what?
Btw, 1200 calories is malnutrition for a guy especially your height.. Not only are you not sparing your muscle, you are missing plenty of micro-nutrients.

[Chuck2600]

I know you're only 155lbs, but Jesus Christ op 1200 calories?

I'm cutting on nearly 3kcal, have never been lower then about 14%bf in my life (I do not have a very high metabolism) and still having success with it.
Remember your bmr is what you burn if you were to to literately NOTHING the entire day, you burn calories through digestion ffs. Just in order to sit up right you use about half the major muscles in your body.

[MonoDC2]

Yeah, I think you're all right. Laying in bed, watching family guy, then the mad hunger kicked in, couldn't sleep.

I'm going to up the calories to around 1500-1600ish and see how that goes. Eat more veggies as well... Now eating some of this bomb soup...

Thanks brahs

EDIT: I think I was just feeling as if I plateaued and feeling soft.

[Chuck2600]

What are your goals anyway? You look very lean, I don't see what you would want to keep cutting.

[MonoDC2]

What are your goals anyway? You look very lean, I don't see what you would want to keep cutting.

Well, I don't really plan on bulking. Maybe recomp soon... Not too sure on a goal. I started at 180 in late august. Always was a lifter, just never with a diet, so I had some kind of muscle underneath all that fat. I guess my goal would be more definition. And thanks!

[kikinz24]

Actually! I know exactly how it is for him my stats are pretty damn close to his! I was down to 158 few months back I had to cut cals to about 1200-1300 I'm 5'11 and currently 170 and cutting yet again. I only consume 1400-1600 max a day. If I take in anymore I do NOT lose anything! I sat at 160 for over a month and a half on 1600 cals. Thought it was just me who experienced this but apparently not

[msm00b]

I've run a pretty intense calorie deficit over the last month and a half and managed to continue to gain strength in the gym, increase my run speed, and double my running distance per session. You have to be careful with extreme deficits. If you don't play your cards right you'll waste muscle mass with the fat. Eat lots of protein at regular intervals throughout the day. Do a small carb load before you go to the gym or do your cardio and take some protein right after.

[pr0nstar]

I'm shooting for about 1.5k-1.7k and I'm bigger than you.

As it's been said, I try to keep my Protein above 150g, trying to take in more healthy fats with Natty PB. And also, I'm on an IF program, and it's working out great.

I still have a good 5% of fat to lose to get closer to my goal, but as it's been said, watch your energy levels, strength and see how it goes. I also take a day when I refeed and eat a bit higher, closer to 2k.

[MonoDC2]

Actually! I know exactly how it is for him my stats are pretty damn close to his! I was down to 158 few months back I had to cut cals to about 1200-1300 I'm 5'11 and currently 170 and cutting yet again. I only consume 1400-1600 max a day. If I take in anymore I do NOT lose anything! I sat at 160 for over a month and a half on 1600 cals. Thought it was just me who experienced this but apparently not

Yeah I've been at 155-158 for the past 2 weeks. Eating maybe 1500cals a day.

I've run a pretty intense calorie deficit over the last month and a half and managed to continue to gain strength in the gym, increase my run speed, and double my running distance per session. You have to be careful with extreme deficits. If you don't play your cards right you'll waste muscle mass with the fat. Eat lots of protein at regular intervals throughout the day. Do a small carb load before you go to the gym or do your cardio and take some protein right after.

I've actually improved in all my lifts and cardio even with the deficit. I expected to maintain the lifts and improve cardio, but still improving.

I'm shooting for about 1.5k-1.7k and I'm bigger than you.

As it's been said, I try to keep my Protein above 150g, trying to take in more healthy fats with Natty PB. And also, I'm on an IF program, and it's working out great.

I still have a good 5% of fat to lose to get closer to my goal, but as it's been said, watch your energy levels, strength and see how it goes. I also take a day when I refeed and eat a bit higher, closer to 2k.

What IF program are you on? I've been interested in IF for awhile... Also interested in keto, but can't afford it right now lol

[msm00b]

What are your goals anyway? You look very lean, I don't see what you would want to keep cutting.

Yeah your pictures aren't available on my work computer but just checked MonoDC2s stuff on my phone. You don't really look like you need to do any insane dieting. If your goals are a certain % of body fat I'd be sure you don't accidently go past it. Focus on a "clean bulk" while maintaining around your current level of body fat (+/- a point or 2).

Glad to hear you're still improving your strength training. For me, the cutting will abruptly end if my str training plateaus or slips one iota. I haven't had that problem yet, but I imagine that phase can't be more than a month away at my current rate.

Yeah I've been at 155-158 for the past 2 weeks. Eating maybe 1500cals a day

You gotta remember you're a nearly 6 foot tall dude with 2 normal sized legs ... as opposed to a 5'9" with 1.5 legs. I wouldn't focus on the bathroom scale. Break out the calipers and measuring tape to track your progress. You're quickly getting to the point where no matter what you do (as long as you're doing it successfully) you'll be putting on weight in the form of muscle.

[Chuck2600]

Actually! I know exactly how it is for him my stats are pretty damn close to his! I was down to 158 few months back I had to cut cals to about 1200-1300 I'm 5'11 and currently 170 and cutting yet again. I only consume 1400-1600 max a day. If I take in anymore I do NOT lose anything! I sat at 160 for over a month and a half on 1600 cals. Thought it was just me who experienced this but apparently not

I don't know how much bro science there is to this but your body was probably in starvation mode.

[Chuck2600]

Starvation mode is a state in which the body is responding to prolonged periods of low caloric intake levels. During short periods of caloric abstinence, the human body will burn primarily free fatty acids from body fat stores. After prolonged periods of starvation the body has depleted its body fat and begins to burn lean tissue and muscle as a fuel source.[1]

Ordinarily, the body responds to reduced caloric intake by burning fat reserves first, and only consumes muscle and other tissues when those reserves are exhausted.[2] Specifically, the body burns fat after first exhausting the contents of the digestive tract along with glycogen reserves stored in muscle and liver cells.[3] After prolonged periods of starvation, the body will utilize the proteins within muscle tissue as a fuel source. People who practice fasting on a regular basis, such as those adhering to caloric restricted diets, can prime their bodies to abstain from food without burning lean tissue.[4]. Resistance training (such as weight lifting) can also prevent the loss of muscle mass while a person is caloric restricted.

Wikipedia article on starvation mode

[msm00b]

Wikipedia is a reasonable source for superficial information, but it has a lot of inaccuracies and over-generalizations.

Starvation mode is a state in which the body is responding to prolonged periods of low caloric intake levels. During short periods of caloric abstinence, the human body will burn primarily free fatty acids from body fat stores. After prolonged periods of starvation the body has depleted its body fat and begins to burn lean tissue and muscle as a fuel source."

Emboldened the important part. As long as your body still has reasonable stores of fat available (I'd consider anything above 7-8% to be adequate for the purpose of this discussion), your body will still continue to use fat. If you don't exercise and feed your muscles appropriately, they're more prone to atrophy during intense calorie cutting. This is where proper execution is key. Exercise your muscles. Damage them (in the productive sense) and force them to heal. Supplement with protein to promote anabolism of muscle (vs catabolism), and you'll weather an intense cut and calorie deficient diet much better.

[hamton]

Wow, you consume 1200 calories and still have energy. That's insane. Just my opinion, but I think you are lean enough. I would recommend that you try to slowly bulk.

I've been reading that IF can keep you lean and bulk at the same time, so I'm giving it a try. If I lose or maintain my fat %, then great. I will continue IF. If I do gain weight and some fat then no big deal. I'll just do a cut again. Currently I train fasted at 6am. Eat my first meal at 12 noon. Snack around 2pm on nuts or turkey jerky. Eat dinner at 7:30pm.

I tried Keto and you can keep it cheap. I usually buy a rotisserie chicken for $5 and it last me roughly four meals. Even though I had great success on Keto, I stopped using because I saw my strength and energy drop. I still do low carb, high fat diet though. I just don't worry about going into Keto.

[msm00b]

I've been reading that IF can keep you lean and bulk at the same time, so I'm giving it a try. If I lose or maintain my fat %, then great. I will continue IF. If I do gain weight and some fat then no big deal. I'll just do a cut again. Currently I train fasted at 6am. Eat my first meal at 12 noon. Snack around 2pm on nuts or turkey jerky. Eat dinner at 7:30pm.

Even if it's just a hard boiled egg, a handful of cottage cheese, or some protein powder mixed with water, you really should give your body something to chew on before noon.

[pr0nstar]

What IF program are you on? I've been interested in IF for awhile... Also interested in keto, but can't afford it right now lol

Basically it's simple.. you consume your Cals for the day in an 8hr period.

I take a BCAA pre-workout, Protein Shake post workout, then I eat my lunch a bit later, snack later in the day, dinner, snack, pre-bedtime shake.

Then I don't eat for ~16hrs.

http://www.leangains.com/ for a lot more info on IF

I'd love to do Keto and try it, but.. the g/f would hate me for the restrictions and not eating with her. And it's a little too strict and I'd rather IF as it fits my schedule and something I can keep up on a regular basis unlike Keto.

[JDkeystone]

wayyy too low, OP. i'm a small female, and even i eat more than that (about 1300-1500) and am losing about 1.5lbs/week. i can't even imagine how you would feel eating so little at your stats...

[kikinz24]

^^ I was not in any way close to "starvation mode" my bf is far too high to be put in that catagory. Your body will burn fat before muscle. Its just how my body responds . Everyone is differentt I'm saying from my personal experience and working with calories and diff macro's what works for Myself to lose weight. Op keep protein high and lift heavy. Don't rely on the scale get a tape and caliper set. And use the mirror only.

[hamton]

Even if it's just a hard boiled egg, a handful of cottage cheese, or some protein powder mixed with water, you really should give your body something to chew on before noon.

I can do it, but I choose not to. I used to have the mentality of my muscles wasting away or missing out on the window of opportunity. Then I learned that it's all hype. I moved away from the 6 meals a day and trying out other techniques to better my life. I eat a full lunch and stuff myself silly at dinner. I don't do this regularly, but last night I ate 5 pieces of fried chicken, 2 biscuit, and 2 chocolate chip cookies. I've been on IF for 1.5 months now and gained around 2 lbs. My bodyfat is still the same though. Two weeks ago I switched to morning fasted workout but keeping all my meals the same. I'm going to test and see if my bodyfat will drop using this technique while still enjoying my food. My strength and endurance has increased since switching to fasted workouts. A pleasant surprise to me.

[koatliki]

I cut at 1,400 - 1,500 calories/day, lose around 1lb/week this way.

[msm00b]

It's not about eating 6 meals a day, you'll actually kickstart your metabolism by feeding yourself SOMETHING in the morning (it doesn't have to be a lot).

I used to never eat anything before noon. Most mornings I have a scoop of protein in a tall glass of water. It makes a difference.

[Chuck2600]

This is the equation Layne Norton advises for people who are cutting. (PHD and pro natural body builder)

Layne Nortons Article:

Utilize The Subsequent Equations To Find Your Caloric Baseline:
• Mesomorphs – bodyweight x 15.
• Ectomorphs – bodyweight x 16-17.
• Endomorphs – bodyweight x 13-14

Protein:
I recommend the following protein intakes for different body types:
o Mesomorphs – 1.2g/lb – 1.3g/lb.
o Ectomorphs – 1.4g/lb – 1.6g/lb.
o Endomorphs – 1.4g/lb – 1.5g/lb.*

Fat intakes are as follows:
o Mesomorphs – 17% – 23% of total calories.
o Ectomophs – 24%-28% of total calories.
o Endomorphs – 23%-28%

The Rest of the % in Carbs

Op based on this equation you should be taking in around 2200 cals per day for fat loss.

[koatliki]

OP should be eating enough to lose 1lb/week imho. A lot of these calculators are so off that they become useless.

[MonoDC2]

You gotta remember you're a nearly 6 foot tall dude with 2 normal sized legs ... as opposed to a 5'9" with 1.5 legs.

My legs are almost annoying. They have slimmed down a little, but my calves and thighs were/are large. Not exactly T-rex mode, but still a decent size. I was a lineman in high school at 190 lbs and my calves helped me hold my ground against some 220 lb dudes.

Wow, you consume 1200 calories and still have energy. That's insane. Just my opinion, but I think you are lean enough. I would recommend that you try to slowly bulk.

A slow clean bulk might be good. Keyword slow. I've found that I can easily consume 7k-9k calories in a day if I set my mind to it, don't want to go there again haha

wayyy too low, OP. i'm a small female, and even i eat more than that (about 1300-1500) and am losing about 1.5lbs/week. i can't even imagine how you would feel eating so little at your stats...

I'm not sure how either, but I was always able to hit the gym for a good hour, then work for 3-4 hours, which involved more lifting of 20-120 lb packages and constant walking, come home and eat something small, sleep, and repeat...

This is the equation Layne Norton advises for people who are cutting. (PHD and pro natural body builder)

Op based on this equation you should be taking in around 2200 cals per day for fat loss.

OP should be eating enough to lose 1lb/week imho. A lot of these calculators are so off that they become useless.

I'm gonna try 1600-1700cals a day for 3 weeks and see how that progresses. I'm sure I'll have more energy if I do so. Thanks both of you.

Oh and do I really need more protein? 155 seemed enough to me, as I'm pretty much having protein in every meal as the main part.

Thanks everyone! much appreciated +rep of whatever my worthless rep is lol