Starting Squats..Wheres's the bar go?

[debandmikeb]

This may be a really basic question but I just have to ask. I have just started to incorporate squats into my workout and due to some balance issues, I am doing them in the Smith machine. I might be okay doing them standalone but I'll use the machine 'till I get more confident. Obviously, being new at this, I'm not using much weight but I am getting alot of pain in the area where the bar hits my back. I am using the wraparound pad but that doesn't seem to help much.

I am putting the bar just below the collar line and it seems to put all of the weight on that one spot. I would think that would be an imposable spot if someone were to squat with heavy weights. Should I be lower on my back? Like just above the blades maybe. I looked at several videos and illustrations but can't really gauge the sweet spot.

Any help, folks?

Thanks....

Mike

[OZBB]

you know I probably wouldn't recommend using the smith machine to start doing squats, it gives you an artificial range of motion that doest conform to your normal squat movement, you might have difficulty transitioning to normal squats after doing Smiths for a period.

There are a number of squat types, most common and the Back and Front squats..... Front Squats has the bar across your upper chest, resting on your collar bone.....can be a little uncomfortable at first.

I think you're probably asking about "Back Squats" where the bar rest across your upper back, trapezius area.... so not right up on you traps, but not too low down either..... I find the best spot is the litte groove between the traps and lats..... try doing squats with just the bar or very light weight to get the feel first..... this will help your balance and form...then start adding weight till you reach your max.....

Squats are the best for overall leg development..... but avoid the smith machine if you want to get the maximum benefit.

OZBB

[ironwill2008]

I'll answer your question, rather than go off-topic re:Smith vs. Barbell squats, since you didn't ask.

First of all, get rid of the pad. The only thing it does is reduce the contact area between the bar and your back. Maybe not a big deal now, but when you get to the point where you're handling substantial weight, it can cause the bar to slide down your back. Not too good. Just suck it up; you'll eventually get used to the bar on your back, and it will stop hurting.

As far as bar position, this vid is pretty well the definitve statement concerning barbell position. His advice should translate to the Smith well enough.

[embrau]

There are two positions you can put the bar when doing a back squat; high bar and low bar. I still can't post links, but there is a good video on You Tube called Squat RX #4 that demonstrates the two positions.

Try to avoid using the pad if you can. It may hurt a little at first, but your body will adapt to it and it will no longer cause pain.

Edit - Ironwill beat me to it. That was the video I was referring to.

[crupiea]

You will figure it out.

Try this, while you are sitting there, try to scunch your shoulder blades together like you are trying to picnh something betweeen them.

You should notice that your chest is sticking out at the same time.

When you get under the bar, before you unrack it, scrunch them together again, this will give the bar a nice solid place to rest against insted of your bony spine..

Play around with putting your hands on the bar at different distances from your shoulders until you find something that works best for you.

[supy]

I'll answer your question, rather than go off-topic re:Smith vs. Barbell squats, since you didn't ask.

First of all, get rid of the pad. The only thing it does is reduce the contact area between the bar and your back. Maybe not a big deal now, but when you get to the point where you're handling substantial weight, it can cause the bar to slide down your back. Not too good. Just suck it up; you'll eventually get used to the bar on your back, and it will stop hurting.

As far as bar position, this vid is pretty well the definitve statement concerning barbell position. His advice should translate to the Smith well enough.

Great advice on not using the pad and id stay away from Smith machine squats good video as well

[medjen]

You will figure it out.

Try this, while you are sitting there, try to scunch your shoulder blades together like you are trying to picnh something betweeen them.

You should notice that your chest is sticking out at the same time.

When you get under the bar, before you unrack it, scrunch them together again, this will give the bar a nice solid place to rest against insted of your bony spine..

Play around with putting your hands on the bar at different distances from your shoulders until you find something that works best for you.

This is what worked for me. Squats hurt a LOT until I just moved my hands closer together. Bunches up all the muscles so you're not just resting iron on bony protrusions.

[Bumar]

Squats are the best for overall leg development..... but avoid the smith machine if you want to get the maximum benefit.

OZBB

I am just a beginner myself. I was also thinking off starting with the smith-machine to learn my back-squats. The thought is because of safety reasons. I can't drop backwards when I loose my balance. I did it once and it felt so awkward... so that I ended with not being happy about this try. Next time I will not use the smith-machine but a barbell without weights... (that is 20 kilo).

[ironwill2008]

I am just a beginner myself. I was also thinking off starting with the smith-machine to learn my back-squats. The thought is because of safety reasons. I can't drop backwards when I loose my balance. I did it once and it felt so awkward... so that I ended with not being happy about this try. Next time I will not use the smith-machine but a barbell without weights... (that is 20 kilo).

Barbell squatting in a properly set-up power rack is about as safe as you can get. If you get stuck, you can just sit down, and let the safety bars catch the barbell.

The only way to learn how to barbell squat is to barbell squat. Using a machine won't help you to learn how to perform a free-weight exercise.

Start out with just the bar and a pair of 25 pound plates. Before you do this, though, take the time to view this series of vids, which, IMO, are an excellent resource for learning to squat, as well as solving common squatting problems.


http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

[dungeonmistress]

there is a natural shelf on your back that appears when you get into squat mode. that is where the bar goes. when you squat, find a place on the ceiling directly in front of you to affix your eyes - that will hold your back straight and keep the bar pretty much in that sweet spot.

[Most Muscular]

The video showed some good, detailed explanation of the bar placement. For myself, I found that after a time I found my "grove" which became very natural for me for the bar placement.

When I used to squat (I can't any more because of lower back issues) I used to get sore wrists from pushing so hard against the bar trying to keep the pressure off of my neck and back. I realized then that I was using way too much of my strength and energy away from my legs and focussing not on utilizing my legs. To overcome this I started putting my arms in a crucifix position with my arms extended outwards and my hands touching, or nearly touching the plates. Obviously because of my shorter arms I was more easily able to accomplish this task. By placing my arms in this position I created a natural "grove" in my upper back, similar to what he described in the video. This not only created the grove I needed to keep the bar easily in place it also removed all stress away from my wrists and I could focus 100% of my legs pushing up instead of my arms getting involved. This was a MAJOR improvement in my squatting ability. Give it a try!

nuff said..

[SavageWannaBe]

Get the book Starting Strength, either from Amazon or www.aasgaardco.com. It has an absolutely fantastic writeup (50 pages, no joke) on squat form. It also has writeups on some other basic compound exercises.

My squat form - and weight moved - improved tremendously just after the first read through. I'm going through it again for a second time and finding more useful pointers.

[Griff79]

I'll answer your question, rather than go off-topic re:Smith vs. Barbell squats, since you didn't ask.

First of all, get rid of the pad. The only thing it does is reduce the contact area between the bar and your back. Maybe not a big deal now, but when you get to the point where you're handling substantial weight, it can cause the bar to slide down your back. Not too good. Just suck it up; you'll eventually get used to the bar on your back, and it will stop hurting.

As far as bar position, this vid is pretty well the definitve statement concerning barbell position. His advice should translate to the Smith well enough.

Repped!! Watch all of Boris's Youtube videos on squatting. I wish I had them when I started, it would have save me some injuries.

[Bumar]

Yes, that video shows very clearly what it is about. Next Thursday in the gym I will start experimenting with it and use the powerrack. I am not gona put weights on the bar. That is much to early for me. First get it only with the bar in place... then comes the next step.
And they have big mirrors there so that I can see what I am doing.

[GoOrange]

I'll repeat two pieces of advice that are the most important in my opinion.

First, get out of the smith machine. It's counterproductive to your goals. If you want to learn balance the only way to do it is on your own with a bar and not in some fixed range of motion contraption.

Second, get rid of the pad. A plain olympic bar usually is able to fit nicely in the grooves on your upper back between the muscles. (If you are just starting getting into weight lifting, it may take a while to better develop these muscles, but it will come).

Start off with a low weight. If you haven't squatted in a while, the chances are you aren't to flexible in the hips, knees, and ankles. Start out just using the bar for a set or two every workout and concentrate on proper form and increasing range of motion. Stick to light weights at the beginning (like bar + 2 x 25 lb plates).

[joatmon]

Mike,

I learned to squat at 60 years of age. I'm still a newbee and according to some on this site, I'm not in a position to give advice. So, read this: THIS IS NOT ADVICE, but simply my experience.

I fooled around with a Smith Machine for a few weeks and it didn't seem very "natural" to me. I decided I wanted to squat, and that using the squat rack and barbell was the only way. I've had knee and back issues for over twenty years. I approached this cautiously. I started with the bar only, and slowly added weight. I then took this advice and bought Starting Strength.

Get the book Starting Strength, either from Amazon or www.aasgaardco.com. It has an absolutely fantastic writeup (50 pages, no joke) on squat form. It also has writeups on some other basic compound exercises.

My squat form - and weight moved - improved tremendously just after the first read through. I'm going through it again for a second time and finding more useful pointers.

Later, I added the video companion to starting Strength and found it helpful as well. Why? The video showed young and old, male and female learning to squat. And, Rip was there to critique, and his critique is what helped me inmprove my form. Seeing the little nuances pointed out by Rip made all the difference.

Now, with six months or so of squating experience, my back and knees feel better than I remember. My squat numbers will impress few on this site, but I feel it has improved my overall health, and that's why I'm lifting.

I'll also mention that I got rid of the pad and found that after a few weeks, things got better. I had a constant scab on my back for a couple of months, but all is well now.

Now, if an old, out-of-shape, banged up guy like me can learn to squat, I'll bet you can too.

Now, get under the bar and push,

joat

[-LJ-]

I started doing squats with the smiths machine. Now I have transfered to normal squats with the safety of a power rack. I must say without the smiths machine it is a lot harder as you are using more muscles to stabilize the weight.

[debandmikeb]

I did try just the bar this weekend 'cuz there was noone around the area. My neck is still quite sore from that last session and I was a little unstable but Friday is my next leg day, so my neck should be less sore and with any luck, I'll be more stable. I was able to determine, though, that I had the bar way too high on my back. I can see now how to make that "shelf" on the top of my shoulder blades, so at least I learned something.

Starting a new movement gives you many things to think about in a short period of time. At my age, the 600lb squat is pretty much up with hitting the lottery, so I'm concentrating on general health, body development, weight loss and longevity.

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement.

Mike

[Bumar]

This morning the one of the first things were to do the squat in the power rack. And it went ok. Barbell with no weight and getting the proper squat position. Like in the video the man is looking for the best grove by putting his head backwards for a moment.. that helped me. I did the high-bar.
It didn't cause pain (untill now). Maybe it will be diferent when I start building up with weight. But first importance is getting a proper and solid position of legs and kicking my but as far behind as possible and keep staring up to "heaven" while doing it.
Thanks for the good tips...