...Taking Creatine and Glutamine together??

[XTRMEWJ]

True, it is easily made, but then again I would much rather my body not have to make it...once again reverting back to the negative feedback principle...if the body needs to make it, that means muscle is broken down already and as we all know anabolism is in short supply during a contest diet. As for adequate nitrogen consumption, well I am all about that too...its just nice to know that I have that much more protein in me.

Also, I am not claiming its cheap, but at 10-20 grams a day a 40 dollar can of the stuff goes for quite awhile. Just think of how much we all spend in gym fees, regular food, supplements, tanning, contest entries, contest prep, travel to the show, hotels, ect...in the end its not much more than another drop in the bucket. This is not the single most expensive sport one can participate in, but then again if you really think about it and add it up you will see that we do spend a lot of money.

That being said, I am not rich but I know that 1% can make a difference on that stage and if glutamine gives me that 1%(I think it does a lot more than that), its worth 40 bucks here and there.

On a funny note...if there are so many skeptics about glutamine I would really hate to ask about HMB around here. LOL. Aside from the personal rips earlier in the thread, this is good stuff...

58 days en counting...
Sean

[str8flexed]

please guys... you are drawing conclusions on things that just don't occur in the body. The body is in a state of flux all the time... just b/c your body is making glutamine doesn't mean you are losing muscle if you take in enough dietary protein the body can use that to make whatever glutamine it needs... MOST GLUTAMINE JUST DOES NOT MAKE IT PAST THE GI TRACT

[DtotheWizzy]

Originally posted by str8flexed
please guys... you are drawing conclusions on things that just don't occur in the body. The body is in a state of flux all the time... just b/c your body is making glutamine doesn't mean you are losing muscle if you take in enough dietary protein the body can use that to make whatever glutamine it needs... MOST GLUTAMINE JUST DOES NOT MAKE IT PAST THE GI TRACT

But the point is, the glutamine that does make it past is beneficial. We have went from glutamine being unnecessary to it just being poor in dollars to gain ratio.

I'll let you in on a little secret...not everyone is so poor that they scrape by trying to afford supplements from week to week. Some of us have enough expendable income to buy things like glutamine that might add up to a pound of muscle over the course of an entire year. If you would like to worry about everyone's finances, I suggest you do a 180 and major in accounting...

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by DtotheWizzy
But the point is, the glutamine that does make it past is beneficial. We have went from glutamine being unnecessary to it just being poor in dollars to gain ratio.

I'll let you in on a little secret...not everyone is so poor that they scrape by trying to afford supplements from week to week. Some of us have enough expendable income to buy things like glutamine that might add up to a pound of muscle over the course of an entire year. If you would like to worry about everyone's finances, I suggest you do a 180 and major in accounting...

I have no idea why you are such a dick to me all the time but I guess I'll go ahead and address this. The point is, whole proteins are probably better than glutamine for NEAA synthesis as you'll be able to synthesize glutamine AND whatever other non essential amino acid your body needs from whole proteins. The only thing that glutamine would be good for is GI tract health as that is where most of it is utilized.

[MynameisMike]

Even if Glutamine does nothing, just make me less sore which I honestly believe is improving recovering. I'd rather be less sore then not be able to walk.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by MynameisMike
Even if Glutamine does nothing, just make me less sore which I honestly believe is improving recovering. I'd rather be less sore then not be able to walk.

1.) soreness is not a great indicator of recovery
2.) soreness is primarily caused by ROS (reactive oxygen species)induced damage... in order to reduce ROS you need to supplement with anti-oxidants... unfortunately glutamine is not one. I'm afraid you WANT to believe it is reducing your soreness

[alan aragon]

hello everyone. hello layne. i checked out Dope's website (ugh, does KISS have any idea what their legacy is?). layne, you need a good hug. it's all gonna be okay brother *pat-pat*



on topic.. glutamine, you're letting me down baby, heh... it's role in immunity is even controversial, check this nice f-text review:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/3/813

nevertheless, glutamine's positive effect on gut health is pretty solid. and anyone who wants to downplay the importance optimizing the function of our digestive system (ie, enabling it to maximally digest, absorb & disperse nutrients into circulation & hence respective tissues) should think twice, & maybe thrice.

layne, u do seem too adamant & dogmatic about a broad data set whose conclusion/interpretation cannot be set in stone. don't take this the wrong way, i'm just being the sage teacher that God made me

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by alan aragon
hello everyone. hello layne. i checked out Dope's website (ugh, does KISS have any idea what their legacy is?). layne, you need a good hug. it's all gonna be okay brother *pat-pat*



on topic.. glutamine, you're letting me down baby, heh... it's role in immunity is even controversial, check this nice f-text review:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/3/813

nevertheless, glutamine's positive effect on gut health is pretty solid. and anyone who wants to downplay the importance optimizing the function of our digestive system (ie, enabling it to maximally digest, absorb & disperse nutrients into circulation & hence respective tissues) should think twice, & maybe thrice.

layne, u do seem too adamant & dogmatic about a broad data set whose conclusion/interpretation cannot be set in stone. don't take this the wrong way, i'm just being the sage teacher that God made me

alan, i do agree with your last comment... however, much of the evidence for orally administered glutamine does not show much benefit for muscle gain or strength gain... and there is definately not enough empirical evidence to warrent glutamine being a "standard supplement" like so many people make it out to be

[John Benz]

Originally posted by str8flexed
LOL, dude something like 83% of glutamine gets stripped in the sphlanic bed before it enters the bloodstream and upon entering the bloodstream much of that is converted to glucose. It's a NEAA (non-essential amino acid)... it doesn't survive the freaking GI tract intact. Just go to pud med and look up some medline studies on oral glutamine supplmentation... none of them show gains in size or strength using it.

Talk about pseudo-science!
Full abstract found here:
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770


J Appl Physiol 86: 1770-1777, 1999;
8750-7587/99 $5.00

Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise
J. L. Bowtell1, K. Gelly1, M. L. Jackman1, A. Patel1, M. Simeoni2, and M. J. Rennie1

_Department of Anatomy and Physiology, University of Dundee, Dundee, United Kingdom DD1 4HN; and _Department of Electronics and Informatics, University of Padua, 3513_Padua, Italy

There is evidence that up to 53% of a tracer dose of glutamine is removed on the first pass through the splanchnic bed, accompanied by a large increase in the rate of glutamine oxidation, presumably in the splanchnic viscera (15). However, in the present study, provision of glutamine orally was successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0._mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments; however, this interpretation is certainly complicated by the relative distribution of the glutamine between plasma and erythrocytes in the blood.

[John Benz]

science is just beginning to play catch-up in regards to oral glutamine supplementation...

The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining
Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR
Department of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Perth.
Sports Med 1996 Feb;21(2):80-97

Glutamine is an amino acid essential for many important homeostatic functions and for the optimal functioning of a number of tissues in the body, particularly the immune system and the gut. However, during various catabolic states, such as infection, surgery, trauma and acidosis, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress, and glutamine reserves, particularly in the skeletal muscle, are depleted. With regard to glutamine metabolism, exercise stress may be viewed in a similar light to other catabolic stresses. Plasma glutamine responses to both prolonged and high intensity exercise are characterised by increased levels during exercise followed by significant decreases during the post-exercise recovery period, with several hours of recovery required for restoration of pre-exercise levels, depending on the intensity and duration of exercise. If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. Athletes suffering from the overtraining syndrome (OTS) appear to maintain low plasma glutamine levels for months or years. All these observations have important implications for organ functions in these athletes, particularly with regard to the gut and the cells of the immune system, which may be adversely affected. In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state.

[John Benz]

I am not promoting Glutamine as an all-out top-priority sup for the budget conscious, just stating that:

1. It does not all get used up by the gut.

2. Approximately 50% makes it through unscathed. When used in high enough dosages, (40 gms+), it can make a very noticeable difference in post workout recovery.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by John Benz
science is just beginning to play catch-up in regards to oral glutamine supplementation...

The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining
Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR
Department of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Perth.
Sports Med 1996 Feb;21(2):80-97

Glutamine is an amino acid essential for many important homeostatic functions and for the optimal functioning of a number of tissues in the body, particularly the immune system and the gut. However, during various catabolic states, such as infection, surgery, trauma and acidosis, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress, and glutamine reserves, particularly in the skeletal muscle, are depleted. With regard to glutamine metabolism, exercise stress may be viewed in a similar light to other catabolic stresses. Plasma glutamine responses to both prolonged and high intensity exercise are characterised by increased levels during exercise followed by significant decreases during the post-exercise recovery period, with several hours of recovery required for restoration of pre-exercise levels, depending on the intensity and duration of exercise. If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. Athletes suffering from the overtraining syndrome (OTS) appear to maintain low plasma glutamine levels for months or years. All these observations have important implications for organ functions in these athletes, particularly with regard to the gut and the cells of the immune system, which may be adversely affected. In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state.

a good find, but it would be much more credible if compared vs. a diet with an equal increase in total amino acids. I still maintain that until a study shows that supplementing with glutamine is better than supplementing the diet with a comparable amount of protein in the diet, why not just eat more protein and save money. In addition, too many people recommend glutamine when bulking where one is in a caloric excess where glutamine DEFINATELY isn't needed

[rkt11]

look guys im not wanting to get into this argument but here is my $.2 i am no with any fkn company, i am not a pro bber or aspire to be im a guy who plays his sport, trains hard and loves to lift now,

I recently started taking glutamine(by AST the best brand imho since theyr supps have worked well for me) and they do help my recovery i take 10g post workout and 10-15g before bed now with my intensity playing sports and lifting ive found it to help me personally... and from the 1000s of people ive heard its helped them

Layne, if you dont like it or it doesnt work fory ou dont use it his body isnt yours so he might respond to it? Glutamine works if it doesnt work for you it doesnt mean its a ****ty product its just not for you so stop bad mouthing it liek a fkn child.

his money, his body, his reciptiveness to glutamine supplemntation = he has to find out himself.

end of .2c

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by rkt11
look guys im not wanting to get into this argument but here is my $.2 i am no with any fkn company, i am not a pro bber or aspire to be im a guy who plays his sport, trains hard and loves to lift now,

I recently started taking glutamine(by AST the best brand imho since theyr supps have worked well for me) and they do help my recovery i take 10g post workout and 10-15g before bed now with my intensity playing sports and lifting ive found it to help me personally... and from the 1000s of people ive heard its helped them

Layne, if you dont like it or it doesnt work fory ou dont use it his body isnt yours so he might respond to it? Glutamine works if it doesnt work for you it doesnt mean its a ****ty product its just not for you so stop bad mouthing it liek a fkn child.

his money, his body, his reciptiveness to glutamine supplemntation = he has to find out himself.

end of .2c

yes... my physiology must be drastically different than everyone else's

[velikimajmun]

Originally posted by str8flexed
yes... my physiology must be drastically different than everyone else's

It's called the placebo effect.

It's been shown not to increase strength or improve recovery other than in a severely catabolic state.

However, the placebo effect is stronger than most known supplements this is why we must run controls in studies. If it does work for great then the benefit you get from it is certainly worth the money you pay for it.

People think they are being insulted when someone says that it is the placebo effect. However if the placebo effect didn't have real physiologic consequences then it wouldn't enter in to the equation of proving efficacy. The placebo effect can do more for you than most any supplement.

[summervspunk]

So far I've read that if you get enough protein you don't need to take glutamine as a supplement (Coming from someone's post on here). Exactly how much protein do you need to be taking in for it to not do anything? I weigh about 180 and take in 100-130 grams of protein a day. It's not close to what's recommended but I have a hard time eating as much as I am right now. The running 4 miles a day kills my appetite as well which makes it even harder to eat that much.

[M.Bison]

Originally posted by str8flexed
so since he agrees with me he's on my nuts? Using that logic since you all are disagreeing with me you must be flaming me and I should ban you?

yes it's conditionally essentially... IN PEOPLE WITH WASTING DISEASES where your physiology is drastically altered... someone consuming enough calories on a daily basis and protein is NOT in a wasting state... maybe, just maybe if you cut calories down to below 1000-1500 and did alot of activity you might be able to get to that point then yes glutamine might become essential... but someone who is just training like a normal bodybuilder and eating like one... no way in hell

mmm mods threatening bans how dull

i dont think u should be pushing your weight around here man really..

the fact is make ur statement and let it be we all know u dont think glutamine is worth while thats your view but hijacking every single thread about glutamine is dull

placebo is very very very effective being a student u should know this man if they think glutamine is doing them good thats great

as for glutamine i think its worthwhile it dont cost that much and i seem to hold body weight better when im on it

creatine however is so overrated if anything should be looked at for sure its creatine sure its not bad but its no where close to being as good as people say but i still take it cos it cant do me no harm =)

ur always talkin about money and it will lighten ur wallet man if ur worried about the cost of glutamine then ur wallet must be as light as helium

just go out one less time drinkin a month and u will save enough cash for glutamine plus the less drinking will do u good as well

[M.Bison]

layne i dunno why u do it man i really dont u have such strong views u seem to want to enforce on people here

wow ur gonna ban people for not agreeing with you, they will probably come back as trolls and harm the boards cos u pi**ed them off

why do u think your above everyone else cos u have won a bb comp and have almost a phd ya sure its good and u have done well for yourself but acting like ur the best bodybuilder thats ever lived cant be a good thing

u want something good for ur money and all about the science well go on the roids man good gains for ur cash dont care what anyone says, scientifically proven as well =)

i think this was a question about taking creatine and glutamine together not about if it worked or not

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by M.Bison
layne i dunno why u do it man i really dont u have such strong views u seem to want to enforce on people here

wow ur gonna ban people for not agreeing with you, they will probably come back as trolls and harm the boards cos u pi**ed them off

why do u think your above everyone else cos u have won a bb comp and have almost a phd ya sure its good and u have done well for yourself but acting like ur the best bodybuilder thats ever lived cant be a good thing

u want something good for ur money and all about the science well go on the roids man good gains for ur cash dont care what anyone says, scientifically proven as well =)

i think this was a question about taking creatine and glutamine together not about if it worked or not

wtf are you talking about? I've never banned anyone over a disagreement.

[M.Bison]

ya man i was a little to harsh there hehe