im tired of people going "if its fits into your macros ur fine"

[Disenfranchised]

Well you don't have to insult him. Fair enough?

Don't be a hypocrite and just call kanny out. Every time I post my opinion in this section there's several posters who automatically start throwing insults my way. It doesn't bother me, I'm able to laugh it off, but don't be a hypocrite. Call out those people first. Kanny is the one these bullies are ganging up on. He's simply defending himself.

[fyre500]

u said the distinction between white rice and brown rice (GI issue), which VERY different to pizza vs rice (fat + carbs). As insulin has the property of storing dietary fat as body fat when available.

Than your comparison makes absolutely no sense in the context that you used it. You are comparing brown rice vs. pizza? They are completely different. One is a side item (or part of a meal) and the other is a meal itself. One contains mostly carbs and the other contains high carbs, fat, and some protein.

Your statement said:

im disucssing the distinction between carbs from brown rice or carbs from pizza and etc.

That's why I replied the way I did. I assumed you were discussing carbs, since you said that you were discussing carbs. You mentioned nothing about fats at all.

I recommend being a little clearer if you want to have any sort of educated discussion. All you've done in the last 4 pages of this thread is backpedal your arguments.

[stormballer33]

To maintain my current weight I need 3000 calories a day
Today I am going to eat 1500 calories of food (800 calories of protein)
I am going to drink 1000 calories of Alcohol tonight = 2500 calories

3000-2500= - 500 calorie deficit. Therefore even though I am going out and drinking tonight since its all calorie in and calories out I will still be losing fat right??

[Mind_v_Heart]

He does think diet is important you moron! You have to be in a caloric deficit, and get enough protein and all the nutrients, essential fats, etc. that you need to survive.

He doesn't think it matters exactly HOW you go about getting those nutrients, just as long as you get them.

Clear yet brah???

This is nothing new to me, been there and done that.

I don't need to visit this website to get "information" to lose fat/gain muscle. It's not rocket science.

I just come here to help others.


Please answer this question:



How does one measure what nutrients, and how much they need per day, and how do we know when we finished consuming sufficient nutrients, so we can safely switch to fillers without having to worry about recovery/growth?

[BlueFenix13S]

To maintain my current weight I need 3000 calories a day
Today I am going to eat 1500 calories of food (800 calories of protein)
I am going to drink 1000 calories of Alcohol tonight = 2500 calories

3000-2500= - 500 calorie deficit. Therefore even though I am going out and drinking tonight since its all calorie in and calories out I will still be losing fat right??

It's not quite that simple.

[BlueFenix13S]

Please answer this question:



How does one measure what nutrients, and how much they need per day, and how do we know when we finished consuming sufficient nutrients, so we can safely switch to fillers without having to worry about recovery/growth?

IMO, you have hit enough protein with 1g/pound of LEAN mass, and .4g/lb of LBM for fat, and don't forget fiber either, which I would say 20-30g if sufficient.

Perhaps someone can give a more scientific/exact answer, but that is my .02.

[stormballer33]

It's not quite that simple.

why isnt that simple. calories in =calories out debate.

i know alcohol slows down fat burning bc it is considered a poison but i am still consuming less calories than i exert

[fyre500]

How does one measure what nutrients, and how much they need per day, and how do we know when we finished consuming sufficient nutrients, so we can safely switch to fillers without having to worry about recovery/growth?

That's a terrible mindset to have. That's not good at all. Thinking like that would lead to an eating disorder. All day in the back of your mind you shouldn't be thinking "I wonder if I got all of my protein in so I can just eat stupid **** the rest of the day since I'm still low on calories". No one is saying to eat 200g of protein from chicken breasts and fill in the rest of the calories with chocolate cake.

The point that is trying to be made is that, unlike popular believe, people do not have to be ridiculously strict and "clean" about their food unless they are competing in bodybuilding (unlike most of this site). It's not recommended to eat McDonald's double cheeseburgers for every meal every day just because that gives you enough protein. It's processed junk and will probably do more harm than good at that point. However, if you want to have a burger at McDonald's, then go for it. Hell, have two. Just account for it in the rest of your daily food intake.

Everyone seems to be blowing this out of proportion and using extreme examples (see the 60g of butter right before bed in the OP). Could someone do that? Sure, if they really wanted to. It's not the healthiest way to live and you're probably going to end up malnourished in the end but you could survive on it and maybe even see weight loss. But it's stupid.

[Mind_v_Heart]

That's a terrible mindset to have. That's not good at all. Thinking like that would lead to an eating disorder. All day in the back of your mind you shouldn't be thinking "I wonder if I got all of my protein in so I can just eat stupid **** the rest of the day since I'm still low on calories". No one is saying to eat 200g of protein from chicken breasts and fill in the rest of the calories with chocolate cake.

The point that is trying to be made is that, unlike popular believe, people do not have to be ridiculously strict and "clean" about their food unless they are competing in bodybuilding (unlike most of this site). It's not recommended to eat McDonald's double cheeseburgers for every meal every day just because that gives you enough protein. It's processed junk and will probably do more harm than good at that point. However, if you want to have a burger at McDonald's, then go for it. Hell, have two. Just account for it in the rest of your daily food intake.

You didn't answer my question.


I have terrible mind-set, because I worry about nutrients in the foods I eat?

Okay buddy.

[fyre500]

Wow. Three paragraphs and that's what you got out of it?

It's a terrible mind-set to have if your focus everyday is to consume the minimum nutrients you need just so you can start eating junk. Now keep that in mind and re-read my post slower.

[BlueFenix13S]

why isnt that simple. calories in =calories out debate.

i know alcohol slows down fat burning bc it is considered a poison but i am still consuming less calories than i exert

There are too many variables to know if you are burning mostly fat or mostly muscle. You will lose some muscle either way, but to say you are burning "purely fat" is not that easy.

[Mind_v_Heart]

Wow. Three paragraphs and that's what you got out of it?

It's a terrible mind-set to have if your focus everyday is to consume the minimum nutrients you need just so you can start eating junk. Now keep that in mind and re-read my post slower.

Next time, write 1 paragraph, but answer my question.

Which is:




How does one measure what nutrients, and how much they need per day, and how do we know when we finished consuming sufficient nutrients, so we can safely switch to fillers without having to worry about recovery/growth?






Please don't dodge the question for the 3rd time. I just want clear answers. Since you guys practice this, you should know the science behind it, and it should only take you few minutes to write few lines explaining.


Also, please don't tell me you know to "switch" when you get enough protein/healthy fats, because it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. People do not understand this...

[BABYBULL92003]

If you believe in phenotypes this whole thread is worthless to you. I cant believe nobody (atleast that I saw), brought this up.

ECTOMORPH- naturally lean, eats whatever, hardgainer

MESOMORPH- naturally FIT, Muscles up easy, looses fat easy,

ENDOMORPH- naturally fat, gains fat easy

NOBODY will get me to belive this doesnt have something to do with this whole theory. Everyone of us knows the guy that drinks beer, eats pizza, lifts 3 days a week and does no cardio..YET IS RIPPED. You cant take his diet and apply it to someone else of a different body type..and get the same results..99% of the time atleast.

I can tell you that a true endomorph isnt gonna be able to get away with eating the junk that an ecto or meso can...PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Calories in and calories out is a good start....but it is highly individualistic. Weight loss and body composition are two different things...and different body types require different things....wether its diet/training/rest/etc.

THE POINT HERE IS YOU HAVE TO TRY THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH CALORIES IN VERSUS CALORIES OUT OR NOT. MAYBE YOU CAN EAT 2500 CALORIES OF PIZZA, MAYBE YOU CANT. YOU CANT SAY, UNTIL YOU TRY IT AND HAVE SOME KIND OF RESULT.

Let the flaming begin.

[blacksmith77]

u said the distinction between white rice and brown rice (GI issue), which VERY different to pizza vs rice (fat + carbs). As insulin has the property of storing dietary fat as body fat when available.

INSULINZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Z TEH DEVIL!
cross x x x x arhg arhigh DONT eat mea liveeeee zoooooOOOOOOOO NAO NOA NOA NOA birng me savior
the insuliznnznnznznznznznznznznznn

[ZenBowman]

If you ate real food this wouldn't even be a problem as you get all three macros, usually in moderate balance. If you eat dextrose and egg whites as food, then clearly you are a lab monkey and not a human. The general rule of if it fits into your macros you are fine still applies. Sure, if you want to get shredded as hell, prolly not, but for normal people it is fine. Heck, if you eat good clean food, as long as it fits into your calorie limit, your macros will probably be fine.

[blacksmith77]

If you believe in phenotypes this whole thread is worthless to you. I cant believe nobody (atleast that I saw), brought this up.

ECTOMORPH- naturally lean, eats whatever, hardgainer

MESOMORPH- naturally FIT, Muscles up easy, looses fat easy,

ENDOMORPH- naturally fat, gains fat easy

NOBODY will get me to belive this doesnt have something to do with this whole theory. Everyone of us knows the guy that drinks beer, eats pizza, lifts 3 days a week and does no cardio..YET IS RIPPED. You cant take his diet and apply it to someone else of a different body type..and get the same results..99% of the time atleast.

I can tell you that a true endomorph isnt gonna be able to get away with eating the junk that an ecto or meso can...PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Calories in and calories out is a good start....but it is highly individualistic. Weight loss and body composition are two different things...and different body types require different things....wether its diet/training/rest/etc.

THE POINT HERE IS YOU HAVE TO TRY THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH CALORIES IN VERSUS CALORIES OUT OR NOT. MAYBE YOU CAN EAT 2500 CALORIES OF PIZZA, MAYBE YOU CANT. YOU CANT SAY, UNTIL YOU TRY IT AND HAVE SOME KIND OF RESULT.

Let the flaming begin.

I was born an ecto , skinny , small bones and was so until I was 7.
Then I became an endo until the age of 13. BIg bones, fat , chubby , etc
Then I started going to the gym and eatin a little less. I became a meso-endo.
I ate even less of whatever I wanted and became a meso -ecto.
I bulked up eating more of whatever I wanted and became an endo again.
Now I am a meso eating whatever I want, eating with the right Macros and filling those calories with whatever I want. .

Oh and I just fit it into my macros.

[hooked4life]

If you are intrigued and have never tried, just try for a couple of months. It won't kill you.

this is it. exactly. couple months isn't going to kill anyone, isn't going to do any harm or change anything that can't be un-changed very fast.

what it will change is your relationship with food.

reps.

[BABYBULL92003]

I was born an ecto , skinny , small bones and was so until I was 7.
Then I became an endo until the age of 13. BIg bones, fat , chubby , etc
Then I started going to the gym and eatin a little less. I became a meso-endo.
I ate even less of whatever I wanted and became a meso -ecto.
I bulked up eating more of whatever I wanted and became an endo again.
Now I am a meso eating whatever I want, eating with the right Macros and filling those calories with whatever I want. .

Oh and I just fit it into my macros.

I hate to break it to you, but you dont go from an ectomorph to a meso or endo. You can go to an ecto-meso...you dont go from small bones and joints to all of the sudden having big bones and joints.

Im not sure what kind of crap your trying to feed me..but its certainly crap.

[blacksmith77]

I hate to break it to you, but you dont go from an ectomorph to a meso or endo. You can go to an ecto-meso...you dont go from small bones and joints to all of the sudden having big bones and joints.

Im not sure what kind of crap your trying to feed me..but its certainly crap.

I am being faecetious. Well spotted.

Now let me educate you

The only difference is that if you insist that you are an endo , the only change you should make is to EAT LESS than a meso or ecto. You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros . Also endo's are by character LAZIER than ecto's or mesos. They have to work HARDER. They see exercise as a chore. Their metabolism is slower. Cleaner eating may suit endomorphs because mentally they feel they are doing the "right" thing and therefore can get into a slightly OCD nature and bland up their taste buds

[BlueFenix13S]

I hate to break it to you, but you dont go from an ectomorph to a meso or endo. You can go to an ecto-meso...you dont go from small bones and joints to all of the sudden having big bones and joints.

Im not sure what kind of crap your trying to feed me..but its certainly crap.

I agree with this. I have a small bone structure, any my moms side of the family, who I take most of my traits after, is very tall and thin. So, naturally/genetically, I am an ecto. However, I used to look like an endo (5'9", 215lbs, 25% bodyfat) because I got fat early in life, but that still doesn't change my natural and genetic phenotype. Now I'm at 5'9", 170ish lbs, and 13%, looking more like the ecto.

[BABYBULL92003]

I am being faecetious. Well spotted.

Now let me educate you

The only difference is that if you insist that you are an endo , the only change you should make is to EAT LESS than a meso or ecto. You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros . Also endo's are by character LAZIER than ecto's or mesos. They have to work HARDER. They see exercise as a chore. Their metabolism is slower. Cleaner eating may suit endomorphs because mentally they feel they are doing the "right" thing and therefore can get into a slightly OCD nature and bland up their taste buds

I was hoping

Ok, now if this is true. What exactly does "You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros " mean? What are the macros for an endo?? In general? Less carbs, more carbs? Etc?

[The Solution]

\

THE POINT HERE IS YOU HAVE TO TRY THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH CALORIES IN VERSUS CALORIES OUT OR NOT. MAYBE YOU CAN EAT 2500 CALORIES OF PIZZA, MAYBE YOU CANT. YOU CANT SAY, UNTIL YOU TRY IT AND HAVE SOME KIND OF RESULT.

Let the flaming begin.

Why would you be dumb enough to eat 2500 calories worth of pizza? Most people are taking this to the extreme, if people had say 500 claories worth of something NOT clean in their diet of 2500 calories, at the end of the day is it really going to matter if EFA's and Protein are met?

Probably not.

If you had 2 pieces of pizza and the rest of your meals were ok ,there will be no friggen difference. To take this overboard and say to get all of your carbs from dextrose is just stupid, nobody in the right mind would ever do that, and your making yourself look like an idiot and your asking to be flamed for stupidity.

[blacksmith77]

I was hoping

Ok, now if this is true. What exactly does "You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros " mean? What are the macros for an endo?? In general? Less carbs, more carbs? Etc?

Less calories

[BABYBULL92003]

Less calories

Ok, you said "You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros".

To me that means....less calories isnt the only thing thats important. Otherwise you wouldnt have said what you did...you would have simply said less calories.

Is "meeting your macros": 1lb of protein per lb of LBM, plus whatever else you want? No proetin requirements? Etc?

[fyre500]

Next time, write 1 paragraph, but answer my question.

Which is:




How does one measure what nutrients, and how much they need per day, and how do we know when we finished consuming sufficient nutrients, so we can safely switch to fillers without having to worry about recovery/growth?






Please don't dodge the question for the 3rd time. I just want clear answers. Since you guys practice this, you should know the science behind it, and it should only take you few minutes to write few lines explaining.


Also, please don't tell me you know to "switch" when you get enough protein/healthy fats, because it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. People do not understand this...

I'm not dodging the question. I just didn't realize I had to break it down like I'm explaining it to a child.

Use something like Fitday or www.nutritiondata.com or, *gasp*, a piece of paper and a pen to track your daily macros. The general guideline for protein is 1g/lb of bodyweight. Fiber is between 20-30g, more isn't necessarily a bad thing. Try get some good fats in as well (fish, fish oil supplement, nuts, etc). As long as those requirements are met, modification of body composition is negligible if you go and eat a couple cheeseburgers from McDonalds once a while as long as you don't go overboard. Keep your calorie intake less than your calorie expenditure and you should lose fat.

Obviously, everyone is different. There are going to be people that can't live their life like this. Examples are those that are diabetic and/or just carb sensitive. It will be a lot tougher to live like that (and it could be impossible).

The main point is that not everyone is the same but 95% of this forum could easily get away with a mostly clean diet with the occasional "dirty" food added in, even on a daily basis. The important part is that your minimal macro needs are met (protein, fiber, some healthy fats).

Try some things. Experiment. Find what works for you. There is no miracle diet or answer.

[Ted Nugent]

I agree with this. I have a small bone structure, any my moms side of the family, who I take most of my traits after, is very tall and thin. So, naturally/genetically, I am an ecto. However, I used to look like an endo (5'9", 215lbs, 25% bodyfat) because I got fat early in life, but that still doesn't change my natural and genetic phenotype. Now I'm at 5'9", 170ish lbs, and 13%, looking more like the ecto.

i have a very similar situation. i have a very lanky frame, small bones/joints, and by all rights should be one of those beanstalk hardgainers (my borthers are both like this). but i got chubby/fat in middle/high school and have been struggling with bodyfat ever since. im hoping with enough hard exercise and diet i can get my metabolism where i want it

[blacksmith77]

Ok, you said "You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros".

To me that means....less calories isnt the only thing thats important. Otherwise you wouldnt have said what you did...you would have simply said less calories.

Is "meeting your macros": 1lb of protein per lb of LBM, plus whatever else you want? No proetin requirements? Etc?

Are you just pretending to be thick? lol

I said less calories because I meant less calories. if you are naturally an endo , you will have a lower amount of calories to consume to maintain your weight than a meso would if he was at the same weight as you

and no not 1lb of protein per lb of lbm

and yes these are your protein requirements
1-1.5g of protein per lb of lbm
0.3-0.6g of Fat per lb of lbm
fill the rest with carbs

[BABYBULL92003]

Why would you be dumb enough to eat 2500 calories worth of pizza? Most people are taking this to the extreme, if people had say 500 claories worth of something NOT clean in their diet of 2500 calories, at the end of the day is it really going to matter if EFA's and Protein are met?

Probably not.

If you had 2 pieces of pizza and the rest of your meals were ok ,there will be no friggen difference. To take this overboard and say to get all of your carbs from dextrose is just stupid, nobody in the right mind would ever do that, and your making yourself look like an idiot and your asking to be flamed for stupidity.

I think this just depends greatly on the person. I know I can tell a huge difference between a low carb diet and a high carb diet PERSONALLY. Ive tried them all. Once I get below 100 per day Im gonna lose more fat...PERIOD.

Now if I was on a keto diet and ate my 200 grams of protein and decided to eat my last 500 calories for the day in pure butter...Ill agree with you. The butter isnt gonna make me any fatter than olive oil, cheese, lard, salami, etc. But the macros still matter.

Now if you guys mean that you short yourself by the macros of the pizza....than I guess I agree, kinda.

Example: 4 pieces of pizza hut pizza = 1200 calories and your basing your diet on 200 grams of protein per day at 800 calories....and you were aiming for 2000 calories...than I agree. HOWEVER, I dont agree that protein at 1gram per lb is the only dietary principle that matters.

[hooked4life]

Ok, you said "You dont have to change the type of food your eating as long as you meet your macros".

To me that means....less calories isn't the only thing that's important. Otherwise you wouldn't have said what you did...you would have simply said less calories.

Is "meeting your macros": 1lb of protein per lb of LBM, plus whatever else you want? No protein requirements? Etc?

same as the conventional wisdom for macros for anyone else. 1 gram of protein per pound .3-.5 fat per pound and carbs till you gain or lose weight at whatever you're desired rate is.

fat can replace some carbs if you like.

imho 'body type' is fairly irrelevant. i have a 'body type' but lets say this summer (i was pretty active) i had to eat a LOT to bulk. atm i'm doing not much more than lifting, CRAZY the cals i need went way down

[BABYBULL92003]

Are you just pretending to be thick? lol

I said less calories because I meant less calories. if you are naturally an endo , you will have a lower amount of calories to consume to maintain your weight than a meso would if he was at the same weight as you

and no not 1lb of protein per lb of lbm

and yes these are your protein requirements
1-1.5g of protein per lb of lbm
0.3-0.6g of Fat per lb of lbm
fill the rest with carbs

OOOPS...I meant gram..my apologies.

And no, Im not trying to be thick. I qouted your exact words..and you said macros...so I kinda needed to know what you meant to understand it..make sense?

So your theary is protein is the only important macro then. Ok...one day maybe Ill try this out.

My lean mass is 203 so 200 grams of protein minimum and that leaves me with 2200 calories (cutting at 3000 right now) of whatever I want and Ill get ripped. Awesome...so I can eat some ice cream, some pizza, some bread, and some cereal in that 2200. Sounds like a dream come true...its so easy that anyone could do it!