thumb over vs thumb under

[GetBig87]

Terrible spotter. WTF was he thinking!? You always have to be there jsut in case that happens. What a douche

[UsurperDave]

If you look at the video, he dropped it on his chest, not his throat.

But, I use a thumb under grip and have for years. Watching this video you can see a very big error. He lifts with the meat of his palms, right above the wrist... it's obvious this is going to fail. Poor form = injuries.

When I lift it is more center of the palm behind the wrist.

[UsurperDave]

Terrible spotter. WTF was he thinking!? You always have to be there jsut in case that happens. What a douche

No offense, but I have to argue here. I can see some of your logic if we assume the lifter is max'n this lift. Be we don't know that.

Maybe I am wrong, but when I have a spotter I generally don't want their help until I reach a fail point, they are not there in case I drop the BB on my chest.

I think it would be tough to stop a 275lb BB mid drop...

This is just an accident... and unfortunate.
(sorry if vague, trying to type this in about 2 mins. before I have to run out the door)

[bodybuilder?]

Here we go with this bs again. I've bench using a thumbless grip for over 10 years and I've never had one injury. Guys here love to exaggerate. And that vid of the dumb and weak kid was not convincing 3 years ago. And it damn sure is not now. He could not even unrack the bar on his own yet somehow it's the grip's fault that he couldn't handle the weight.

Give me a break.

Thumbless grip > played out shown 1,000 times before vid of weak and pathetic brat trying to "max out" with weight he clearly could not handle from the get go.

yes but the risks of an accident happening are higher when you thumbless on bench press

[huddlestonalex]

Hence my point. People keep saying "better to air on the side of caution" all the time around here. Yet one exercise variation causes thousands upon thousand of muscle tears every year. And somehow the "safety first" attitude is amended for this exercise. I am not going to rant here but I do hate the flawed logic and hipocrisy behind many of the member's(especially the newer ones) advice here.

It's like they say no under any circumstance to certain ways of lifting that "can be unsafe" yet overlook one of the most documented injury causing exercise variations in the gym.

I am one of those "newer members" here and I didn't realize you dont flat bench? Must be my newness......Anyway I stopped flat barbell benching a while back just because it never felt right, but for me it was prolly just cuz of my height/arm length. However, when I did I used thumbless/suicide grip becuase it just felt really uncomfortable to wrap my thumbs. To me, I think the bigger issue with this is guys trying to get under more weight than they can handle. I dont care what grip you use, if you are attempting more weight than you should even be looking at eg kid in vid, you are going to fail. Summary, dont be dumb in the weight room!

[DiamondDelts]

My rule of thumb is if you need a spotter hovering over you while doing any lift you are problably messing with weight you can't confidently handle in the first place.

[Mark1T]

Even though I am The People's Spotter. That's right, the Chosen One, in agreement with the Mod of Chocolateness, I never spot anyone who I believe cannot handle the weight in the first place.

[R_Bid]

Hence my point. People keep saying "better to air on the side of caution" all the time around here. Yet one exercise variation causes thousands upon thousand of muscle tears every year. And somehow the "safety first" attitude is amended for this exercise. I am not going to rant here but I do hate the flawed logic and hipocrisy behind many of the member's(especially the newer ones) advice here.

It's like they say no under any circumstance to certain ways of lifting that "can be unsafe" yet overlook one of the most documented injury causing exercise variations in the gym.

i left for work right after my last reply in this thread, just got home, so sorry for the very late bump.

i respect your position, but the debate over grip is a different sort of safety issue than a possible muscle tear. dropping a bar is sudden, violent, and most importantly, you won't have a sense that it might occur until it actually does. in the case of muscle tears, something as simple as using a weight you can manage or warming up properly are all it will really take to avoid them.

we could all go forward not doing flat bench because of the muscle tear threat... but then we'd also have to stop doing bicep curls with heavy weight because of the threat of bicep tears, etc (i know more people with bicep tears than any other, personally).


also, to take a step back, DD--if your position regarding flat bench is not to do it for safety purposes, yet you advocate (or at least don't dismiss) thumbless grips--then you are using the same selective safety logic that you point out in those of us doing flat bench but using a thumbs-over grip.

i'm not trying to call you out in any way, just trying to present a different perspective.

who knows? 2 months from now, we could both be doing only incline bench, and with thumbs-over grips.

[Tyciol]

Thumbless grip either risks falling, or risks you over-extending your wrists when you should be trying to keep them more neutral. The thumb shouldn't be bearing a lot of weight but it should at least do a little work now and then to stabilize the bar.

[brad71983]

Hence my point. People keep saying "better to air on the side of caution" all the time around here. Yet one exercise variation causes thousands upon thousand of muscle tears every year. And somehow the "safety first" attitude is amended for this exercise. I am not going to rant here but I do hate the flawed logic and hipocrisy behind many of the member's(especially the newer ones) advice here.

It's like they say no under any circumstance to certain ways of lifting that "can be unsafe" yet overlook one of the most documented injury causing exercise variations in the gym.

tearing a muscle compared to a barbell loaded with possibly 2-500lbs landing on someones neck, slightly different comparison there DD. However rather than saying, OMG never use a suicide grip, why not just lay the risks on the table and let people decide for themselves. The pros are that you can do more weight, but the cons is a risk you can lose the weight and potentially do some damage, be it crack a rib or really maybe even kill yourself if you are alone.

That being said I only use the suicide for CGBP and I would never think to use anything else.

[mAssholio]

1. Buy a power rack
2. Bench in there with any grip you like
3. ???????
4. Profit


easy enough?

[Phil2009]

tearing a muscle compared to a barbell loaded with possibly 2-500lbs landing on someones neck, slightly different comparison there DD. However rather than saying, OMG never use a suicide grip, why not just lay the risks on the table and let people decide for themselves. The pros are that you can do more weight, but the cons is a risk you can lose the weight and potentially do some damage, be it crack a rib or really maybe even kill yourself if you are alone.

That being said I only use the suicide for CGBP and I would never think to use anything else.

x2 its called a suicide grip for a reason.

I always use my thumbs wrapped around the bar.
Try this, when benching (not necessarily flat, looks at DD ) To get the same effect as a thumbless grip, keep your thumb on the safe side but dont wrap it around the bar, if you get my drift. The thumb is still there to prevent the bar from falling, but you get a thumbless effect.

I dont know, maybe its just me, but give it a shot.

[DiamondDelts]

1. Buy a power rack
2. Bench in there with any grip you like
3. ???????
4. Profit


easy enough?

Yeah people are still so behind here. I bench in a power rack with safety bars so I can use any grip I want safely. But you still have people here using plain ol benches and asking for spotters etc. That is why I hate getting into these debates here because so many do not understand how to utilize equipment readily available to them for safe lifting.

Using a standalone bench is very idiotic in my opinion today.I compare it to driving without a seat belt. Power racks with safety bars were made with this purpose in mind. And for form junkies they even have power racks with 1" spacing so you can use a full rom and still lift safely with the bars right around chest level just in case.

So this should not even be an issue. But someone will continue to show vids of numbskulls and dumb teens using out dated equipment with a spotter and some how blame it on the exercise or grip used. When the real answer is staring them right in the face.

[brad71983]

Yeah people are still so behind here. I bench in a power rack with safety bars so I can use any grip I want safely. But you still have people here using plain ol benches and asking for spotters etc. That is why I hate getting into these debates here because so many do not understand how to utilize equipment readily available to them for safe lifting.


Using a standalone bench is very idiotic in my opinion today.I compare it to driving without a seat belt. Power racks with safety bars were made with this purpose in mind. And for form junkies they even have power racks with 1" spacing so you can use a full rom and still lift safely with the bars right around chest level just in case.

So this should not even be an issue. But someone will continue to show vids of numbskulls and dumb teens using out dated equipment with a spotter and some how blame it on the exercise or grip used. When the real answer is staring them right in the face.

[MissThing]

i've been benching 8 years now, and ever since i can remember i've used the thumb over and have done it confidently without a spotter for years. however it's really been taking a toll on my wrists i think. has anyone else experienced this? and if so, did switching grips help much? i also use thumb over for almost any other pushing exercise or pulling exercise that involves a straight bar. is it bad for these exercises as well?

I started with thumbs over but now I always use thumbs under. it's more comfortable and I find the bar rests in my palms without gripping too hard.

[AaronCF]

Agreed, power rack is where it's at.

[burningNun]

Here we go with this bs again. I've bench using a thumbless grip for over 10 years and I've never had one injury. Guys here love to exaggerate. And that vid of the dumb and weak kid was not convincing 3 years ago. And it damn sure is not now. He could not even unrack the bar on his own yet somehow it's the grip's fault that he couldn't handle the weight.

Guy in video surely died? or severely crushed his throat/chest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpOZthGnWs - For those who think I have no business trying to bench 305lbs, here's a vid of me getting 295lbs a few minutes before this accident.

I was very lucky: no broken bones, no internal injuries, just a badly bruised chest. I took two weeks off from bench pressing, but I was squatting two days after this accident.

It was NOT the spotter's fault, it was my fault. I was using a dangerous grip. I used the thumbs-under grip for many years with never so much as a "close call". Needless to mention, I have changed my grip to wrapping my thumbs. But I'll still get tons of comments about my grip from all the illiterate "experts" out there. Probably 1% of the commenters will read this.

This video aired on "World's Most Amazing Videos" - http://www.spike.com/episode/24809/st...

www.myspace.com/danimal24

He looks like he lifted up his arse on the 295 lift, but still. He was a bit optimistic about 1% of commenters reading it too.

[Dominik]

I bench in a power rack with safety bars so I can use any grip I want safely. But you still have people here using plain ol benches and asking for spotters etc. That is why I hate getting into these debates here because so many do not understand how to utilize equipment readily available to them for safe lifting.

Lencho had a good video demonstrating this.

On the other hand if you're benching heavy outside a rack, a 'suicide grip' is not worth the risk IMO. I'd save a thumbless grip for machine work where there's no risk.

[Lencho]

Lencho had a good video demonstrating this.

Have you seen my latest one where I got pinned and had to roll the bar off, only to have the boards I was using flip over and smack me in the balls?

[brad71983]

Have you seen my latest one where I got pinned and had to roll the bar off, only to have the boards I was using flip over and smack me in the balls?

you have balls?

[Dominik]

Have you seen my latest one where I got pinned and had to roll the bar off, only to have the boards I was using flip over and smack me in the balls?

Haha, that was awesome.

[Lencho]

you have balls?

Did I say balls? I'm sorry.




I meant "labia".

Haha, that was awesome.

[youtube]HA_Oxjcf__Y[youtube]

[Defiant1]

Haha, that was awesome.

Epic ball-smack.

[UsurperDave]

Just curious, never seen anyone use 2x4's strapped to their chest for BP's.
What's the point in this?

[mAssholio]

What's the point in this?

smacking your balls at the end releases plenty of testosterone

[Dominik]

Just curious, never seen anyone use 2x4's strapped to their chest for BP's.
What's the point in this?

It's called a board press.

http://www.criticalbench.com/board-press.htm

[Mark1T]

I like the Power Rack, too. But, it is putting a hurt on my Spotting franchises. Now, they are even harder to sell

Even Power Rackers need a professional spotter every now and then. I'm hurt

[UsurperDave]

smacking your balls at the end releases plenty of testosterone

This could be used as cheap PCT.

[Lencho]

This could be used as cheap PCT.

I did, in fact, lol.

[Pridehurtsform]

well i think this thread lost track a bit. i've decided to continue to thumbless grip, as it is more comfortable, and i'm sure i'd never drop it on myself (8 years and i ahven't had a problem and i've only gotten better at it). my wrists have gotten better since i cut out CGBP and i've been taken glucosamine, chondroiten and MSM. it's much more confortable for me to bench this way so i'll continue to do so.

does anyone use thumb under ( in otherwords non-suicide) grip for pullups? or any other back exercise? as this largely hinders the amount of weight i can use comfortably.