AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

[nightanole]

What kind of abs can I do?


For my "cant cheat" list:
Ab wheel roll outs or walkouts
Hanging leg raises
high foot farmer walks/carries
landmine 180's

Question:
What does can't chest list mean?

Should I do these exercises or should I cannot do this exercises? Please I'm confused.

Please advise what abs exercises can I do?

"if you have to hold your feet down to do the exercise, you are mostly using your hip flexors, and the abs are just along for the ride"

That is the "cheat". So my "cant cheat list" are some exercises you can do that are impossible to cheat on.

[Shadybaby316]

"if you have to hold your feet down to do the exercise, you are mostly using your hip flexors, and the abs are just along for the ride"

That is the "cheat". So my "cant cheat list" are some exercises you can do that are impossible to cheat on.

Thank you so much, how many sets or reps of these exercises should i do for cardio?

[Jimbob81]

10x3 is just an auto regulated pattern. You stop once you can no longer handle the weight. Its just a variant of the AMRAP pattern, but it does allow you to use your 5-6 rep max as a workingweightt.

So this would mean I'm airing on the more strength side of things as opposed to hypertrophy? Would this be because it fits better with the cycling?

Going to try it tomorrow and if anything I'm looking forward to a differing rep range!

[nightanole]

Thank you so much, how many sets or reps of these exercises should i do for cardio?

No clue, thats why i didnt put one. Typically with ab work its high rep or long duration/sets. And normally a low amount of sets. If you have a fatigued core next session, you will have a bad time and may even be more injury prone. So i would say no more than 2 minutes of ab work per session.

[nightanole]

So this would mean I'm airing on the more strength side of things as opposed to hypertrophy? Would this be because it fits better with the cycling?

Going to try it tomorrow and if anything I'm looking forward to a differing rep range!

No. Its definitely hypertrophy work. You are getting a crap ton of reps done in 5-7 minutes. But the multi short rests will help keep form from degrading, and the SLDL is mainly just to fill out your "leg routine". Everyone is anterior dominant, and biking is a very anterior sport. So the SLDL will help round it about a bit since it is a very posterior dominant exercise.

Its kinda like of you "just bench press" your shoulder joints resting position will slowly start moving forward, and eventually cause impingement. So we avoid this by doing rows, which brings balance back to the joint.

[uga40]

Had a friend critique me using this program and states the progression is too slow. He recommended I go with 5 / 3 / 1 BBB located on the fitness wiki in the R/Fitness page on reddit.

Any thoughts on the two programs as I am a total beginner? This one seems fine and I don't understand the slow progression as being a disadvantage.

[nightanole]

Had a friend critique me using this program and states the progression is too slow. He recommended I go with 5 / 3 / 1 BBB located on the fitness wiki in the R/Fitness page on reddit.

Any thoughts on the two programs as I am a total beginner? This one seems fine and I don't understand the slow progression as being a disadvantage.

That is hilarious. 5/3/1 progression is five pounds to your 1RM calculations for the two upper-body lifts and 10 pounds to your 1RM for the squat and deadlift, per month.

Even at the slowest allpro is 10% per 5 weeks.

And since people still dont read, 10% is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM PROGRESSION SPEED.

Do you really think that an absolute n00b who is teaching themselves how to squat, and heavy is 55lbs and the bare bar is light day, is only going to add 5lbs at the end of a cycle? They may be squatting 105 by the end of the second cycle, just by "getting good".


Though 5/3/1 has its own magic with n00bs. You are supposed to ONLY add 5lbs and 10lbs to your 1 rep maxes, that adds even less to your working weights. But here is the magic of 5/3/1 no one talks about, on the third set with the 5+, 3+, or 1+. As a fast progressing n00b you wont be doing 5, 3, or 1, on those AMRAP sets you might be doing 10-15, 5-10, and over 5 on the "1". It will take months and months and months before you fail to get the minimum reps on the 5+, 3+, or 1+ sets. You will be doing a MASSIVE amount of volume with "light weight" if you do 5/3/1 as n00b.

[uga40]

That is hilarious. 5/3/1 progression is five pounds to your 1RM calculations for the two upper-body lifts and 10 pounds to your 1RM for the squat and deadlift, per month.

Even at the slowest allpro is 10% per 5 weeks.

And since people still dont read, 10% is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM PROGRESSION SPEED.

Do you really think that an absolute n00b who is teaching themselves how to squat, and heavy is 55lbs and the bare bar is light day, is only going to add 5lbs at the end of a cycle? They may be squatting 105 by the end of the second cycle, just by "getting good".


Though 5/3/1 has its own magic with n00bs. You are supposed to ONLY add 5lbs and 10lbs to your 1 rep maxes, that adds even less to your working weights. But here is the magic of 5/3/1 no one talks about, on the third set with the 5+, 3+, or 1+. As a fast progressing n00b you wont be doing 5, 3, or 1, on those AMRAP sets you might be doing 10-15, 5-10, and over 5 on the "1". It will take months and months and months before you fail to get the minimum reps on the 5+, 3+, or 1+ sets. You will be doing a MASSIVE amount of volume with "light weight" if you do 5/3/1 as n00b.

Appreciate the feedback and explaining the difference. I am a total noob and will stick with this program. Looking forward to seeing my results. I imagine this program should serve me for quite a while. I will read through the history to see when I move to something else.

[grat_master]

I took the all pro and modified it a bit. Am I wasting my time and should stick to exactly how it is or are my modifications good?

I have 15lbs of fat to lose and want to build muscle.

I split it in 3 parts, A B C

Monday Thursday = A
Tuesday and Friday = B
Wednesday and Saturday = C

A:
bench press : 3 sets warm up, 3 sets work
seated shoulder press : 4 sets work
dumbbell fly : 4 sets work
standing alternate dumbbell curl : 4 sets work
standing reverse barbell curl : 3 sets work

B:
squat : 3 sets warm up, 3 sets work
deadlift : 4 sets work
bent over row : 4 sets work
single arm dumbbell row : 4 sets work
bench dip with feet on floor : 3 sets work

C:
some abs, alternating exercises each week
calf raise

I do 30 minutes cardio each morning and go for a 15 minutes walk before training.

I will be doing my 12 reps week starting tomorrow. I have limited space and equipment since I bought my own and used my basement bedroom to install them. I have a Northern Lights bench that can do squat rack, a 7' 45lbs barbell, some plates and some dumbbells. I am trying to find an EZ bar but I dont have one for now. I am also sitting most of my work days as I am a computer programmer, sitting in front of computer screen all week long.

Let me know what you think! Thank you very much.

[nightanole]

I took the all pro and modified it a bit. Am I wasting my time and should stick to exactly how it is or are my modifications good?

I have 15lbs of fat to lose and want to build muscle.

I split it in 3 parts, A B C

Monday Thursday = A
Tuesday and Friday = B
Wednesday and Saturday = C

A:
bench press : 3 sets warm up, 3 sets work
seated shoulder press : 4 sets work
dumbbell fly : 4 sets work
standing alternate dumbbell curl : 4 sets work
standing reverse barbell curl : 3 sets work

B:
squat : 3 sets warm up, 3 sets work
deadlift : 4 sets work
bent over row : 4 sets work
single arm dumbbell row : 4 sets work
bench dip with feet on floor : 3 sets work

C:
some abs, alternating exercises each week
calf raise

I do 30 minutes cardio each morning and go for a 15 minutes walk before training.

I will be doing my 12 reps week starting tomorrow. I have limited space and equipment since I bought my own and used my basement bedroom to install them. I have a Northern Lights bench that can do squat rack, a 7' 45lbs barbell, some plates and some dumbbells. I am trying to find an EZ bar but I dont have one for now. I am also sitting most of my work days as I am a computer programmer, sitting in front of computer screen all week long.

Let me know what you think! Thank you very much.

Its definaty not a modification, its not allpro at all. Odds are you are just using the allpro progression pattern, which is fine for any program.

As for rolling your own program the absolute basics are:

Practice the same form lift at least twice a week
a push from one angle
a push from a different angle
a pull from one angle
a pull from a different angle
a full hip hinge exercise such as a dead lift
a full knee flexion exercise such as a squat

Other than that, just keep accessories at the end of the workout and you should be gold.

Now if you want to break up real allpro, you can break down the workout into sessions, but the main and the alt and the accessory needs to be done in the same session.

bench/ohp
squat/SLDL
Row/curl


If you want even more help on rolling your own program, or modifying an existing one to reach your own personal goal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=166216941

[grat_master]

Its definaty not a modification, its not allpro at all. Odds are you are just using the allpro progression pattern, which is fine for any program.

yeah you're right. I'll just go back to original All Pro routine and do it for at least 1 year.

I'll keep my weights and try to do the 12 reps week. If it's good, I'll start fresh on next Monday with more weight and keep to the plan.

My goals are to lose body fat. Do you have any nutrition recommandations?

I'm 168cm 82kg.

I try to maintain ratios of 35% proteins, 40% fat and 25% carb while eating around 1700 calories per day and around 150g of proteins. Is this a good plan?

Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate your help.

[nightanole]

yeah you're right. I'll just go back to original All Pro routine and do it for at least 1 year.

I'll keep my weights and try to do the 12 reps week. If it's good, I'll start fresh on next Monday with more weight and keep to the plan.

My goals are to lose body fat. Do you have any nutrition recommandations?

I'm 168cm 82kg.

I try to maintain ratios of 35% proteins, 40% fat and 25% carb while eating around 1700 calories per day and around 150g of proteins. Is this a good plan?

Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate your help.

If you read a bit further down the faq, i do post a bit.

But i dont like percentage based diets. The most successful folk keep fats/proteins the same during bulk/cut, and just adjust carbs and cardio.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals.

I dont recommend going much below this unless you are really short. If you go below the mins, "performance" suffers and you end up with a severely reduced recovery rate.

Other than that, i try to tell people to get about half the deficit from food, and the other half from cardio. The old joke is "you cant outrun a bad diet".




Q15: The starting diet
A:
Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.

[grat_master]

If you read a bit further down the faq, i do post a bit.

But i dont like percentage based diets. The most successful folk keep fats/proteins the same during bulk/cut, and just adjust carbs and cardio.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals.

I dont recommend going much below this unless you are really short. If you go below the mins, "performance" suffers and you end up with a severely reduced recovery rate.

Other than that, i try to tell people to get about half the deficit from food, and the other half from cardio. The old joke is "you cant outrun a bad diet".




Q15: The starting diet
A:
Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.

Yeah I missed the FAQ. I went through it right after I read this reply.

I'm 168cm or 5'6.5" so would you still suggest I go with 2000 calories per day? I want to lose a bit more than 20lbs.

Also I just went through the original All Pro routine! What a blast. I managed to do 12 reps at all the weights so I'll do it 2 more times this week then move on to +10% / 8 reps next week.

One question though: is it normal that I feel more my lower back than my glutes and hamstrings when doing SLDL ? Maybe I'm doing something wrong eventhough I watched multiple videos before starting doing them a month ago.

[nightanole]

Yeah I missed the FAQ. I went through it right after I read this reply.

I'm 168cm or 5'6.5" so would you still suggest I go with 2000 calories per day? I want to lose a bit more than 20lbs.

Also I just went through the original All Pro routine! What a blast. I managed to do 12 reps at all the weights so I'll do it 2 more times this week then move on to +10% / 8 reps next week.

One question though: is it normal that I feel more my lower back than my glutes and hamstrings when doing SLDL ? Maybe I'm doing something wrong eventhough I watched multiple videos before starting doing them a month ago.

The proper SLDL for is also in the faq

But depending on your imbalances and past training experience, anything is possible. Ive had rock climbers that could row twice what they bench. Ive had bench monkeys with almost 3plate prs, struggle with 105lb OHP.

As far as the diet, you can try your 1700 cal. Again you do not want to go high protein "at first". Some can perform great on just meat and veggies, others run like crap. But for "most" people recover is highest on moderate to high carbs.

So you could try going a little low, say 75-85g protein, 50g fats if its a good fish/nuts/veggie profile, and the rest with carbs. Its not going to take much adjustment to drop from the 2100 cal diet down to 1700, but you are going to start noticing a drop in recovery somewhere around 150-175g or less of carbs. Hell you are almost there with just shaving 25g off each macro.

[FitBeyondForty]

On lower rep days ( early in the cycle) is ok to do all the heavy weight reps at once if you can? Or is the rest between mandatory?

[nightanole]

On lower rep days ( early in the cycle) is ok to do all the heavy weight reps at once if you can? Or is the rest between mandatory?

That is an interesting question i never thought of. I dont see how you could do 16 reps with even 10% more weight, but i could see you doing 16 reps at once on light day.

I do advocate taking the least amount of rest possible on medium and light days early on. You can try that on heavy day, but most of the time form and bar speed turn to crap.

So yea, if you can do all the reps with only a zero to 30 second rest, go for it. Just dont cheat and do 12 reps, and then the last 4 after a rest

[uga40]

If you read a bit further down the faq, i do post a bit.

But i dont like percentage based diets. The most successful folk keep fats/proteins the same during bulk/cut, and just adjust carbs and cardio.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals.

I dont recommend going much below this unless you are really short. If you go below the mins, "performance" suffers and you end up with a severely reduced recovery rate.

Other than that, i try to tell people to get about half the deficit from food, and the other half from cardio. The old joke is "you cant outrun a bad diet".




Q15: The starting diet
A:
Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.

so I overlooked this. I am 68" and 172 lbs. I am on a 500 calorie deficit and doing the workout. Is this saying you shouldn't cut while doing AllPro? I have too much fat and need to lose it. I am doing a moderate cycle on tues / thurs / and Sat while doing the lifing M W F.

[nightanole]

so I overlooked this. I am 68" and 172 lbs. I am on a 500 calorie deficit and doing the workout. Is this saying you shouldn't cut while doing AllPro? I have too much fat and need to lose it. I am doing a moderate cycle on tues / thurs / and Sat while doing the lifing M W F.

No its saying the opposite, you should cut as fast as possible without causing performance loss.

What it is reminding people to do, is not "under eat". You cant just cut calories.

So lets do some maths.

There is about 3500 calories in a pound of human fat, or 7,700 calories per kg

I recommend losing or gaining at least 1kg of "you" per cycle.

5 weeks per cycle, 35 days x 500 cals, deficit of 17,500 per cycle.

So your well within spec.

So you wont have a problem unless you can not create that 500 cal deficit with food, without going much below the mins per macro.

I mean if you cant cut 1kg per cycle on 2100 cals, you need to up the cardio

[uga40]

No its saying the opposite, you should cut as fast as possible without causing performance loss.

What it is reminding people to do, is not "under eat". You cant just cut calories.

So lets do some maths.

There is about 3500 calories in a pound of human fat, or 7,700 calories per kg

I recommend losing or gaining at least 1kg of "you" per cycle.

5 weeks per cycle, 35 days x 500 cals, deficit of 17,500 per cycle.

So your well within spec.

So you wont have a problem unless you can not create that 500 cal deficit with food, without going much below the mins per macro.

I mean if you cant cut 1kg per cycle on 2100 cals, you need to up the cardio

Ah, makes sense!

[JustinP72]

I've broken my program into 6 lifting days/week-3 push, 3 pull-and skipping 8 rep week, and it's going well so far; I've been increasing at least 10%, squat increase has been much more and now exceeds deadlift. I'd like to accelerate upper body hypertrophy and am considering adding EZ bar standing curl to my pull days and EZ bar standing french press to my push days - both after 3 main lifts and with no warm up reps. I understand if these cause my other lifts to fail I need to back off. What is your opinion on adding these two lifts for upper hypertrophy vs other lifts or, say, dips or pullups? I don't have a cable setup or pull up/dip station. I do have straight barbell, EZ barbell, dumbbells, squat rack, & bench.

[nightanole]

I've broken my program into 6 lifting days/week-3 push, 3 pull-and skipping 8 rep week, and it's going well so far; I've been increasing at least 10%, squat increase has been much more and now exceeds deadlift. I'd like to accelerate upper body hypertrophy and am considering adding EZ bar standing curl to my pull days and EZ bar standing french press to my push days - both after 3 main lifts and with no warm up reps. I understand if these cause my other lifts to fail I need to back off. What is your opinion on adding these two lifts for upper hypertrophy vs other lifts or, say, dips or pullups? I don't have a cable setup or pull up/dip station. I do have straight barbell, EZ barbell, dumbbells, squat rack, & bench.

standing french press is for the chosen few. Just like a chosen few can do upright rows with the elbows to ear line variant. But the french press breaks my rule of doing full elbow flexion above the nipple line. Its why i make a note when adding skull crushers, to have alot of elbow movement and not in a fixed position. But if you are one of those folk that dont get elbow pain doing them, go for it. "there are no bad exercises, only bad exercises for you". Same with dips, some people just cant do them. Hell i cant do the rippetoe version of the OHP, its just too tight of a form at the bottom.

As far as ez bar, that is the best for putting the most meat on your arms. Not so good if you want to really focus on the bicep, since the ez distributes the load evenly across all the brachii.


And you already know the rule of do what you want as long as it doesnt cause a core lift to stall.

[FitBeyondForty]

So, on my light days it's only taking me 35-40 minutes to complete all the lifts. This is doing warm ups for every lift as well.

I dont think all my weights are too low.

Is that about an average time for light days?

I'm on cycle 2 and my test day is monday.

[nightanole]

So, on my light days it's only taking me 35-40 minutes to complete all the lifts. This is doing warm ups for every lift as well.

I dont think all my weights are too low.

Is that about an average time for light days?

I'm on cycle 2 and my test day is monday.

Some people can do 8 rep light days with 20-30 second rests in under 30min. The average time is 45min with no waiting or setup time between lifts.

[ks31000]

Does anyone know where the cardio recommendation of 3 x 10km runs per week come from?

In the original thread All Pro recommends not doing much cardio at all (2 x 30min jogs per week max).

[nightanole]

Does anyone know where the cardio recommendation of 3 x 10km runs per week come from?

In the original thread All Pro recommends not doing much cardio at all (2 x 30min jogs per week max).

V1 didnt work out so well. Original allpro also had warmups for every exercise, which caused a lot of failures.

The latest is to do about the same amount of cardio as you do lifting. 3x5 and 5x5 programs are assuming you are also doing "sports".

But without a good amount of cardio (or sports) people tend to under eat on allpro and have recovery issues.

This is a very short routine, so getting in 45min of cardio 3x a week along with 45min of lifting 3x a week, is about the same vs 1-1.5 hours of lifting(mostly resting and accessory work) 3x a week on a "football" program.

[ks31000]

V1 didnt work out so well. Original allpro also had warmups for every exercise, which caused a lot of failures.

The latest is to do about the same amount of cardio as you do lifting. 3x5 and 5x5 programs are assuming you are also doing "sports".

But without a good amount of cardio (or sports) people tend to under eat on allpro and have recovery issues.

This is a very short routine, so getting in 45min of cardio 3x a week along with 45min of lifting 3x a week, is about the same vs 1-1.5 hours of lifting(mostly resting and accessory work) 3x a week on a "football" program.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[dcanham001]

Hi night, hope you are well.
I watched a recent AthleanX video where he talked about the optimal number of sets per week. For newcomers he recommended no less than 9 or 10 sets per exercise (and more for experienced lifters).
Obviously on Allpro we are only doing 6 work sets per week. Are fewer sets appropriate because of the big compound exercises that we are doing which tends to hit a lot of muscles/groups in every exercise?
I've done a couple of cycles of Allpro and can confirm the fatigue is real so not really looking to add more sets I was just wondering what your view was on this and looking to educate myself

[nightanole]

Hi night, hope you are well.
I watched a recent AthleanX video where he talked about the optimal number of sets per week. For newcomers he recommended no less than 9 or 10 sets per exercise (and more for experienced lifters).
Obviously on Allpro we are only doing 6 work sets per week. Are fewer sets appropriate because of the big compound exercises that we are doing which tends to hit a lot of muscles/groups in every exercise?
I've done a couple of cycles of Allpro and can confirm the fatigue is real so not really looking to add more sets I was just wondering what your view was on this and looking to educate myself

I have not watched the video, but we are doing 12 sets per muscle group. In a "normal" routine you may alternate bench and OHP, for 3-5 sets depending on the program. So that would be 9-15 sets per week. We are doing both in every session. Same with squats and deadlift, "normal" programs dont have both in the same session, or they will do something like 3 sets of squats every workout, and maybe 1 set of deads once a week too.

[dcanham001]

I have not watched the video, but we are doing 12 sets per muscle group. In a "normal" routine you may alternate bench and OHP, for 3-5 sets depending on the program. So that would be 9-15 sets per week. We are doing both in every session. Same with squats and deadlift, "normal" programs dont have both in the same session, or they will do something like 3 sets of squats every workout, and maybe 1 set of deads once a week too.

Thanks for the clarification nightanole. That's pretty much what I thought when I was talking about compound movements but you put it much clearer than i could haha

[GlobeRat]

Never lifted before, so I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. I want to use dumbbells with this routine but there are only five exercises listed for dumbbells, and seven for barbells. Do I have to use a barbell to do this routine?