"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[MattJ45]

Go back and read through the thread from the start, the answers you all seek are there.

I spent a long time looking but couldn’t find an answer to my query ref hack squats.

Can anyone advise?

[TalonCS]

Just read it again, didn't find answer, I'm basically asking why bench is only once a week. Curious to know why it's better this way

[Voyager92]

Hi,
Regarding The Intermediate Upper/Lower routine.

Why only bench once a week instead of twice a week?
Is it ok to replace the flies on "Upper B" with bench and do that before overhead press?

Reason for asking this, is that I really want to progress on bench quick, so would it be better for bench press to do it twice a week?

Kind Regards

Trust the programme.

[gesler0811]

Hi,
Regarding The Intermediate Upper/Lower routine.

Why only bench once a week instead of twice a week?
Is it ok to replace the flies on "Upper B" with bench and do that before overhead press?

Reason for asking this, is that I really want to progress on bench quick, so would it be better for bench press to do it twice a week?

Kind Regards

At the intermediate level you're already progressing about as fast as you can reasonably expect to do if you're following this program as written. There's no reason to go switching things around, if anything you'll throw it out of balance and sabotage your own results. Just follow the program as written and trust that there's a reason this thread is 264 pages long when 99.999999% of the "programs" that get posted in this forum disappear into obscurity overnight.

[Mithos]

Hi.
Just recently switched from U/L to L/U/LPP and am enjoying it a lot
However, on Leg day my lower back is struggling with both heavy squats and heavy DL, and then good mornings

Is it ok to sub Squats with either Hammer V-Squat of Front Squat? or shoud I keep going, waiting for my lower back muscles to adapt to the new workout?

Thanks a lot

Any thoughts on this?

[TalonCS]

Hi, been reading about 100 pages of the Novice thread (finding it really interesting), but I've actually gotten a bit confused about the progression when reading through it all.

I see 2 ways that makes sense from the "progression example" and i don't know which one is right.
Do you (1), add weight after each "weekend of rest"
or do you (2), add weight every time you done a workout twice.

It says add weight each week, but that would mean that every other week, you are gonna have only 1 workout with the added weight before adding more again next time. Is that the right way?

Made an example here, using bench as the lift:
Mon A Bench 100
Wed B
Fri A Bench 100

Mon B
Wed A Bench 105
Fri B

Mon A Bench 110
Wed B
Fri A Bench 110

Is it supposed to progress like that?

Kind regards and sorry if it seems like a stupid question.

[Grifter3511]

Hi, been reading about 100 pages of the Novice thread (finding it really interesting), but I've actually gotten a bit confused about the progression when reading through it all.

I see 2 ways that makes sense from the "progression example" and i don't know which one is right.
Do you (1), add weight after each "weekend of rest"
or do you (2), add weight every time you done a workout twice.

It says add weight each week, but that would mean that every other week, you are gonna have only 1 workout with the added weight before adding more again next time. Is that the right way?

Made an example here, using bench as the lift:
Mon A Bench 100
Wed B
Fri A Bench 100

Mon B
Wed A Bench 105
Fri B

Mon A Bench 110
Wed B
Fri A Bench 110

Is it supposed to progress like that?

Kind regards and sorry if it seems like a stupid question.

That is correct. Increase each week if you hit your reps regardless of whether you hit the exercise once or twice that week.

The initial post gets edited from time to time so it is possible that at one time it was different.

For instance, when I started running F5 I'm almost positive that on the Friday workout (when you're hitting the same exercises for the second time in the week) you were to increase the number of reps. Now though, the program states to do the same exact reps on Day 1 and Day 3.

[TalonCS]

Ok great, thanks

Yeah got quite confused when I started reading the thread and saw some questions I couldn't match with the workout lol, found out it was due to it being changed

[RapidFail]

What does everyone think about supersetting more of the exercises to save time. I work out before work and if I can save 5 minutes without compromising performance, I will. Last week I changed the exercise order to:

A:
Squat superset with French Press
Bench
Pendants
Reverse Flies superset with Calf Raises

B:
Front Squat superset with bicep curls
OHP
RDL
Pull Ups superset with ab work

Does anyone see any problem with this?

[tommy4life]

What does everyone think about supersetting more of the exercises to save time. I work out before work and if I can save 5 minutes without compromising performance, I will. Last week I changed the exercise order to:

A:
Squat superset with French Press
Bench
Pendants
Reverse Flies superset with Calf Raises

B:
Front Squat superset with bicep curls
OHP
RDL
Pull Ups superset with ab work

Does anyone see any problem with this?

You can go crazy and even super set bench/Pendlay and OHP/Chinups of you're really strapped for time

[TalonCS]

This is generally a question for anyone on this program.

I started this program a week ago and i really like it, love the workout and stuff, i just find it so short I love being in the gym and i find it sad to be there for only 45-60 min, 3 days a week.

Before you start to get mad at me, I KNOW that the program is good as it it, no changes needed, and i do not want to change it, because i know its designed as best as possible.

Just want to know if i'm the only one feeling like this ? I'm gonna stick to the plan and just accept that this is the best way, just gonna find something else to use my time on

[drgoku]

Just want to know if i'm the only one feeling like this ? I'm gonna stick to the plan and just accept that this is the best way, just gonna find something else to use my time on

Program starts slow due to lighter starting weights. Wait till you are a few months in.With heavier weights you will be toast even before you reach the superset supplement exercises.

[cuonglm93]

I'm going to switch to The Intermediate Upper/Lower program.

Regarding the Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Could anyone could help what kind of Flies exercise for this day ? Or I can use any kind of flies?

Thanks,

[Doyoueven2020]

Are you going to failure on any or all of these sets? Or pyramid the sets?

[tommy4life]

I'm going to switch to The Intermediate Upper/Lower program.

Regarding the Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Could anyone could help what kind of Flies exercise for this day ? Or I can use any kind of flies?

Thanks,

Doesn't really matter but machines work a bit better for this type of excercise

[Todd_Gack]

So my lifts progress

Squats 50kg - 95kg
Deadlift 60kg - 120kg
Chest Dips bodyweight - 30kg
Ohp 25kg - 50kg

So far I've reset on squats @90kg, deadlift @115kg and OHP @50kg. Failed the 50kg ohp today and will definitely struggle on Friday to complete it. I think my squats will struggle at 100kg as well. Deadlift still feels like it has a bit in it, had no problem with 120kg. I'll switch to bench in Wednesday from dips. I also had a rest day last week, I skipped Mondays workout.

Should I keep running the novice for a while and reset to 85kg squat (if I fail), and to 42.5kg ohp again? Or should I switch it up to intermediate soon? Been on it (bulking) for 4.5 months now.

[Meyzu91]

I need some advice on changing up leg day, i have terrible knees and they hurt alot doing squats and leg presses. lunges, romanian lunges are much easier for me, leg extensions i dont feel any pain either.

[TalonCS]

Hey guys.

Finished reading the novice thread (literally every page), and started a bit on this one. Finding it really interesting.
One question popped into my mind, the Incline Bench vs OHP.
I've seen several iterations of the program through the time, at the start it had incline, then later switched to OHP. The switch though, was to my understanding done because everyone kept asking why there were no direct shoulder exercise, so now I'm wondering which is preferred?

Hope it makes sense, really enjoying the program

[tommy4life]

Hey guys.

Finished reading the novice thread (literally every page), and started a bit on this one. Finding it really interesting.
One question popped into my mind, the Incline Bench vs OHP.
I've seen several iterations of the program through the time, at the start it had incline, then later switched to OHP. The switch though, was to my understanding done because everyone kept asking why there were no direct shoulder exercise, so now I'm wondering which is preferred?

Hope it makes sense, really enjoying the program

The switch was done because a vertical push is compulsory for healthy shoulders, which is kind of the centre piece for these routines. Something about the muscles involves in the upward rotation of the scapula.

[TalonCS]

Ok, gonna do ohp then

From what I read, shoulders were getting used enough on incline, but might have misunderstood it

[tommy4life]

Ok, gonna do ohp then

From what I read, shoulders were getting used enough on incline, but might have misunderstood it

Your shoulders would get enough work with the incline version, the OHP is there because the vertical push motion is needed for other reasons (scapula stability).

[TalonCS]

Your shoulders would get enough work with the incline version, the OHP is there because the vertical push motion is needed for other reasons (scapula stability).

Ok great, thanks.

[sqal]

Are there any other substitutes for reverse flys? I workout at home, so no cable machines.

[bassbb]

Are there any other substitutes for reverse flys? I workout at home, so no cable machines.

i bet db reverse flyes are ok

[kitzo46]

Hi there,

I've got some problems with my lower back and my physio has told me to steer away from exercises that irritate it. These exercises include RDL's. I can't substitute RDL's with good mornings or SLDL because they hurt as well. I don't have a GHR machine but I know you can do it on the floor (not a big fan of the exercise). Was just wondering if there's any other substitute hamstring exercises for RDL's besides GHR and curls, that don't irritate the lower back (bending over)? I've searched everywhere but can't seem to find a proper exercise like RDL where you can load it heavily. I was thinking hip thrusts but I’m not sure if these are a proper hamstring exercise? They don’t hurt my back though.

Also back squats are another exercise hurting my lower back. Any substitute for that?
And back extensions as well.
I know these questions have probably been asked before but I don't know how to locate them in a thread with 265 pages.
Thank you.

[Blitzilla]

hi davis! should I move to your upperlower int program following this
32year old started fierce5 novice 16weeks ago, been thrue 2 deloads , 2 reset on ohp /1 reset on rdl /1 reset on squat/ 2reset on bench (this one im stuck)
i went from 168lbs to 178lbs in that time frame bulking, im now sitting at around 22%bfat and i want to drop down to 15%.
heres my progression
squat 135/255
bpress 115/150 ( takes me everything i got on last set/rep to complete , dont think i can go higher and i dont have a spotter to try it out)
pendlays 95/160
facepull 35/45
tricept 40/50
paused backsquat 135 /235
ohp 95/105 (took me 3 months to break 100)
rdl 95/165
assisted pullup cant break 40lbs assisted 3x10
ezbar curl 60/67.5

whats my play?

[tommy4life]

Hi there,

I've got some problems with my lower back and my physio has told me to steer away from exercises that irritate it. These exercises include RDL's. I can't substitute RDL's with good mornings or SLDL because they hurt as well. I don't have a GHR machine but I know you can do it on the floor (not a big fan of the exercise). Was just wondering if there's any other substitute hamstring exercises for RDL's besides GHR and curls, that don't irritate the lower back (bending over)? I've searched everywhere but can't seem to find a proper exercise like RDL where you can load it heavily. I was thinking hip thrusts but I’m not sure if these are a proper hamstring exercise? They don’t hurt my back though.

Also back squats are another exercise hurting my lower back. Any substitute for that?
And back extensions as well.
I know these questions have probably been asked before but I don't know how to locate them in a thread with 265 pages.
Thank you.

Since you mention RDL I assume you're doing upper lower.
You can do front squat one day and pause front another.
Hip thrusts could replace RDL
Lunges are also great since they hit the glutes and ham/quad (change focus depending on varaition)

[cuonglm93]

I'm going to try The Intermediate Upper/Lower, but still have a concern on increasing weight

"You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps by 1 on every set. Ex: Instead of doing bench 3x5 you'll do 3x6. At the end of that week weight increases and the reps will drop back down to 3x5."

As my understanding, it maybe as below:

Week 1: Bench press 3x5 50lbs
Week 2: Bench press 3x6 50lbs
Week 3: Bench press 3x5 55lbs

Does my understanding is correct?

[Lilyboland]

From the FAQ section:
What do I do if I fail on my sets?
If you fail a lift two days in a row then drop the weight 10% for the lift you are failing. This is a good time to work on form since the weight is a bit lighter again. Form can make or break your lift. This program won't work if you don't drop weight when you fail an exercise. This varying intensity is a crucial aspect of any good program.

By "fail a lift two days in a row", does this mean 2 repeated days? So for example, if I failed 3x6 on squats, do I repeat that same 3x6 the next week?

Also, I've been wondering what should I do when I'm limited by equipment with large weight increments. E.g. bent-over row. I can work through 3x9 30kg with no issues, so I'm supposed to increase weight and do 3x8 the next cycle. But the next weight up at my gym is 35kg and I can barely get 2 reps in before my form breaks down. Do I just keep adding reps to 30kg until I can get to 35kg for sets of 8?

[Lilyboland]

I'm going to try The Intermediate Upper/Lower, but still have a concern on increasing weight

"You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps by 1 on every set. Ex: Instead of doing bench 3x5 you'll do 3x6. At the end of that week weight increases and the reps will drop back down to 3x5."

As my understanding, it maybe as below:

Week 1: Bench press 3x5 50lbs
Week 2: Bench press 3x6 50lbs
Week 3: Bench press 3x5 55lbs

Does my understanding is correct?

I'm doing this at the moment too. What you said is how I interpreted it as well. I feel the weight increase is a bit aggressive tho.