Wendler 5/3/1 + Boring but big

[Greek_G0d]

Hi,

I've been doing Wendler for about 8 months now with great results. The only issue I have is with the assistance program Boring but big. I know he suggest in his book to do 5x10 with 40% to 50% working weight . I have no issues with Press and Bench but can barely do more than 4-6 reps on Squats and Deadlift. Should I bring my weight down or keep with it? Same time, any suggestions why I'm having this issue ?

[blue9steel]

If you're can't do the reps at the recommended weight you'll have to lower the weight, changing the rep range would change the training effect. The most likely reason is that you just don't have enough capacity for volume on that exercise, keep working on it and it'll improve. That said, I find it unusual that you can't do ten reps at 50% of training max. For example, I can squat 3x3x276 right now, which is roughly equivalent to a 90% of 1RM training max. Half of that would be only 138lbs which I guarantee I could bang out 5x10 of no problem. I'm by no means super strong but comparatively for me that just isn't very heavy.

[Greek_G0d]

If you're can't do the reps at the recommended weight you'll have to lower the weight, changing the rep range would change the training effect. The most likely reason is that you just don't have enough capacity for volume on that exercise, keep working on it and it'll improve. That said, I find it unusual that you can't do ten reps at 50% of training max. For example, I can squat 3x3x276 right now, which is roughly equivalent to a 90% of 1RM training max. Half of that would be only 138lbs which I guarantee I could bang out 5x10 of no problem. I'm by no means super strong but comparatively for me that just isn't very heavy.

Thanks ! I know I find that unusual too. That's why I asked the question. To be honest I always had issues with high volume leg work. I'll lower down the weights and see.

[geoffstgermaine]

How many reps are you hitting for the top sets on the 5s, 3s, and 5/3/1 weeks for squat and deadlift?

When you say 4-6, I presume this means for all 5 sets. This is an odd problem as you should be getting more reps than this on your 85 and 90% sets. How long do you rest between sets for the 5/3/1 and 5x10 sets?

[Greek_G0d]

How many reps are you hitting for the top sets on the 5s, 3s, and 5/3/1 weeks for squat and deadlift?

When you say 4-6, I presume this means for all 5 sets. This is an odd problem as you should be getting more reps than this on your 85 and 90% sets. How long do you rest between sets for the 5/3/1 and 5x10 sets?

For the top sets, I assume it's the last work set of every week?
Last cycle I did 5 on the 5rep week, 4 on the 3 rep week and 3 on the 1 rep week.

To be more precise I'll usually do 7-8 reps on the first set but it then goes down to 4-6 for the last 4.

I take 3 minutes off for work sets and 2 minutes off for the assistance program

[WolfRose7]

For the top sets, I assume it's the last work set of every week?
Last cycle I did 5 on the 5rep week, 4 on the 3 rep week and 3 on the 1 rep week.

To be more precise I'll usually do 7-8 reps on the first set but it then goes down to 4-6 for the last 4.

I take 3 minutes off for work sets and 2 minutes off for the assistance program

1. Your Training max is too high, You should be hitting at least 5 clean reps on the 1+ week.

2. You don't have to use BBB for all your lifts, you can use FSL for 2 and BBB for 2, or however else you like.

3. If you use BBB you always hit 5 x 10. If you can't you chose the wrong weight. You don't have to use %'s either, feel free to just pick a set weight that lets you do the reps.

4. Most importantly. You never fail a rep in 5/3/1 for main or supplemental. If you fail to meet reps at any point it means your TM was to high, and you picked the wrong numbers

[Greek_G0d]

1. Your Training max is too high, You should be hitting at least 5 clean reps on the 1+ week.

2. You don't have to use BBB for all your lifts, you can use FSL for 2 and BBB for 2, or however else you like.

3. If you use BBB you always hit 5 x 10. If you can't you chose the wrong weight. You don't have to use %'s either, feel free to just pick a set weight that lets you do the reps.

4. Most importantly. You never fail a rep in 5/3/1 for main or supplemental. If you fail to meet reps at any point it means your TM was to high, and you picked the wrong numbers

I was doing 5+ reps on the 1+ week of the first/second cycle. It was my understanding of the book that you keep going as long as you can hit the minimum reps. I've not failed a rep yet on the work sets.

I'll think I'll try switching the assistance work for a bit .

[WolfRose7]

I was doing 5+ reps on the 1+ week of the first/second cycle. It was my understanding of the book that you keep going as long as you can hit the minimum reps. I've not failed a rep yet on the work sets.

I'll think I'll try switching the assistance work for a bit .

I like BBS ( 5 sets of 10 ) for Press, FSL (often paused) for Squat/Deads and BBB for Bench atm.

This is Jim's current stance on it. Emphasis on the last line

This is very simply laid out in the Forever Book - so much that I don't know how else to write it.

You do PROGRAMS. And every time you start a NEW PROGRAM, you begin with a correct TM. GENERALLY, each PROGRAM last 3, 5/3/1 cycles. SOMETIMES it is longer than 3 cycles, but GENERALLY, it is 3 cycles.

What this does is allow you to MAKE PROGRESS, AVOID STALLING and (this is the key part of why it is done) YOU USE THE CORRECT TRAINING MAX FOR THE GIVEN PROGRAM.

This is not very difficult to understand - do a 3 cycle PROGRAM. When you begin said 3 cycle PROGRAM, you begin with the correct TM for each lift.

Now let's pretend you did 3 cycles and you are now finished. Now you use your head and the millions of proven programs I've written and start a new 3 cycle PROGRAM. And again, you use the correct TM for each lift.

It is literally that simple. And to make things even more simple - for the majority of the programs I've written and used PERSONALLY and tested ON ATHLETES - if you can't hit your TM for 5 strong reps, your TM is too high.

[Greek_G0d]

Thanks for the info. Never saw this post before. I just finished a cycle so I'll reset my TM

[SuperSauce]

I just want to share my input, as I've been doing the BBB for a little while. I deadlift 385, and I do 5x10 with 205 without any problem. My estimated max on the squat is somewhere around 325 or something, and I do around 155 to 185 for 5x10; 185 is challenging though. On my 3rd heavy set (the "PR set") I always get 5-10 more reps than the required number. I use a relatively low training max, so I agree with the other posters' advice. Some days I can do more weight on the BBB than other days. My numbers aren't very high, but I just wanted to share this with you in case it could help. I find the 5x10 to be extremely helpful for my leg development, so I think lowering the weight to fulfill the rep scheme is worth it.

5/3/1 is awesome. Good luck!

[jejkub2]

I started 5/3/1 last week and it's going pretty good so far. I can see my strength going up very quick, have no problems whatsoever. If you are feeling like you might get injured, lower the weight.

[Budaan]

BBB is very good, however the 5x10 was ****.
But thats the point. if 5x10 = ****
then it is not boring.
And challenging.

I would grind on.