Fierce 5 questions and advice

[T1799]

I saw the workout but I'm confused about what weights to do. Do I go off of a percentages of my maxes or what. Also on the off days can I do HIIT cardio

[davisj3537]

Guess for the starting weights. If you guess a little low then it doesn't matter because the progression is very fast. Use that time to work on form. If you guess too high then it doesn't matter because the failure protocol will reset the weight 15% where it needs to be. Key point is that it doesn't matter.

Do any cardio you want IF you understand how that affects how you will or will not be gaining muscle.

[Lift4UrDaughter]

Guess for the starting weights. If you guess a little low then it doesn't matter because the progression is very fast. Use that time to work on form. If you guess too high then it doesn't matter because the failure protocol will reset the weight 15% where it needs to be. Key point is that it doesn't matter.

Do any cardio you want IF you understand how that affects how you will or will not be gaining muscle.

I almost forgot to post the video on my thread until i see your post here. Sorry for a bit late.

BTW, i wanna ask about Fierce 5 as well.
I started F5 for 1 week (before my break to Malaysia) and I found myself not satisfied with the workout.

- Even tho I can't bench more than 30kg (66lbs) for 5 rep, or more than 5 reps with 30kg(or not yet), but after the session I just don't feel sore or anything. Completely normal. Have I gotten used to the movement that's why I dont feel weird? Or I'm hitting lower weight than I am supposed to?
- I struggle with front squat. My wrists just hurt badly (not for long tho) after each set even with light weight (20kg or 44lbs, while my back squat is lowered to 40kg so i can improve my form) Is there anyway to improve this?
- My shoulder clicks uncomfortably when I do Pendlay Row. It doesn't hurt, but just uncomfortable. It feels like it's **a bit** dislocated when i move my elbow up, then get back to where they were when I lower my elbows down. Basically, even while i'm standing straight, lift my arms up like side lateral raise, they click as well, just not as much, which I can assume they work that way. Is there any way to solve the clicking problem?

[davisj3537]

I almost forgot to post the video on my thread until i see your post here. Sorry for a bit late.

BTW, i wanna ask about Fierce 5 as well.
I started F5 for 1 week (before my break to Malaysia) and I found myself not satisfied with the workout.

- Even tho I can't bench more than 30kg (66lbs) for 5 rep, or more than 5 reps with 30kg(or not yet), but after the session I just don't feel sore or anything. Completely normal. Have I gotten used to the movement that's why I dont feel weird? Or I'm hitting lower weight than I am supposed to?
- I struggle with front squat. My wrists just hurt badly (not for long tho) after each set even with light weight (20kg or 44lbs, while my back squat is lowered to 40kg so i can improve my form) Is there anyway to improve this?
- My shoulder clicks uncomfortably when I do Pendlay Row. It doesn't hurt, but just uncomfortable. It feels like it's **a bit** dislocated when i move my elbow up, then get back to where they were when I lower my elbows down. Basically, even while i'm standing straight, lift my arms up like side lateral raise, they click as well, just not as much, which I can assume they work that way. Is there any way to solve the clicking problem?

1. That's normal if you've been doing some stupid routine. Soreness has nothing to do with a good workout. Follow the program progression.
2. Read up on front squat grip. There are a bunch of ways around this. Cross arm grip, wrist straps on the bar, holding the clean grip correctly...etc.
3. See a dr.

[Lift4UrDaughter]

1. That's normal if you've been doing some stupid routine. Soreness has nothing to do with a good workout. Follow the program progression.
2. Read up on front squat grip. There are a bunch of ways around this. Cross arm grip, wrist straps on the bar, holding the clean grip correctly...etc.
3. See a dr.

Well, I had been running the warrior workout btw, not just a self-made running around. Progressed and gained. It's just that I felt it was too much so I switch to F5 because it looks more realistic and simple, and latest.
For front squat, I tried many methods, yet the only one i can stick to is the 2 finger grip. It's just that it hurts.
Sure will see the doc to see if the lifting is ok for my shoulder. But I dont see any problem with my shoulder after a while of lifting, or i was wrong that it cause a long term thing.

[davisj3537]

Well, I had been running the warrior workout btw, not just a self-made running around. Progressed and gained. It's just that I felt it was too much so I switch to F5 because it looks more realistic and simple, and latest.
For front squat, I tried many methods, yet the only one i can stick to is the 2 finger grip. It's just that it hurts.
Sure will see the doc to see if the lifting is ok for my shoulder. But I dont see any problem with my shoulder after a while of lifting, or i was wrong that it cause a long term thing.

The routine you were doing is great.

Keep working on front squat grips. Here is an example https://www.t-nation.com/training/ho...at-with-straps

Again, don't worry about a lack of soreness.

[JesusGreen]

Guess for the starting weights. If you guess a little low then it doesn't matter because the progression is very fast.

^ This. I recently started Fierce 5 myself and the way I did it was start with just the bar so I'd get used to the form for each exercise. I then initially (since obviously the bar was too light) added 5lb each workout, then 5lb every other workout, and now I'm adding 5lb every week for upper body and 10lb for lower body like the program suggests.

Alternatively you can just play around and see what weights you feel comfortable with initially, but I wanted to ensure my form was good so that I didn't run into problems later on.

---

Also to answer your other questions:

- Even tho I can't bench more than 30kg (66lbs) for 5 rep, or more than 5 reps with 30kg(or not yet), but after the session I just don't feel sore or anything. Completely normal. Have I gotten used to the movement that's why I dont feel weird? Or I'm hitting lower weight than I am supposed to?

If you mean delayed soreness etc. Don't worry, you don't have to be sore after your workout to make progress/gains. Obviously the harder you workout, the more likely you are to be sore - so for a long time people have assumed soreness directly correlates to gains, but soreness really isn't an indicator. If you can't do more than 5 reps @ 30kg, then you definitely don't need to be moving up the weight just yet.

As for actually feeling the intensity of the exercise in the right areas (like in your pecs etc when benching), this could be due to form. Remember to retract your scapula, and a cue I found helped for activating my chest more is to imagine yourself pulling your chest wide open on the down movement, and squeezing it together on the up movement.

- I struggle with front squat. My wrists just hurt badly (not for long tho) after each set even with light weight (20kg or 44lbs, while my back squat is lowered to 40kg so i can improve my form) Is there anyway to improve this?

I also experienced this same issue. I actually fixed it last week or so. What I did was look at some videos from Alan Thrall, Omar Isuf, Candito etc and check to see if there was anything wrong with my form. The main tips I got from there that helped me were:

Tip 1: Tighten your back and have your chest up. If you don't do this, then your chest will come forward during the movement and the bar will start resting on your fingers/wrist and cause a lot of discomfort.
Tip 2: The bar should have 5 contact points: both shoulders, your fingertips, and also be pressed against your neck. The delts support the weight, and the bar should be far enough back to touch your neck for the least wrist discomfort.

Front squat was by far the most unpleasant exercise for me to do before, but after incorporating those 2 tips it no longer feels unpleasant for my wrists.

Another thing that is good is to actually do some warmups to increase your wrist and shoulder mobility.

If those tips don't help, try using wrist straps as Alan suggests in this video:


Hope this helps

[Garbarrage]

Do any cardio you want IF you understand how that affects how you will or will not be gaining muscle.

Sorry if it seems like I'm following you around the forum, but you seem to be a credible source of info lol. I'm assuming that cardio will eat into your gains while bulking, but while cutting it should help lean you out faster? Or is this a ridiculously oversimplistic way of looking at it? You don't have to go into massive detail if it's a complicated subject, but a link to something solid on the subject would be helpful if you have one.

Basically, roughly 4 months or so ago, I was weighing in at 16st (224lbs). The result of too little activity, and too much sugar and other rubbish in my diet. I had enough of it, and basically gave up sugar and reduced my portions dramatically. Switched from a carb heavy to protein/fat heavy diet. Still have carbs etc. just way more sensible about it. But I used HIIT routines almost daily to get the weight down to 13.5st (86kg/189lb). I really enjoyed it. I love the feeling of collapsing in a sweaty heap on the floor after workout.

Anyway, I have some flab left to get rid of. Not a lot, but my thinking was to do some HIIT on rest days until the body fat is where it should be. I know I could just count calories etc, but if burning it off the hard way is an option that won't be too detrimental to overall progression, I'd like to keep doing it. Again, I'm open to advice and willing to learn.

1. That's normal if you've been doing some stupid routine. Soreness has nothing to do with a good workout. Follow the program progression.

Damn, I like the soreness. I also like the central nervous system screaming at my muscles to push out one more rep feeling which I think will be coming in spades at various points along the program. Gotta love them endorphins.

[WolfRose7]

Cardio won't eat into any gains as long as it's not so intense you can't recover and you account for all calories burnt by eating that extra.
same goes for cutting... it's common sure, but if you set a 400 deficit and stick to it cardio isn't needed ( still good for separate health reasons of course).

This is all opinion and a bit advert heavy but gives a decent overview of cardio - http://rippedbody.jp/everything-cardio/

[davisj3537]

Sorry if it seems like I'm following you around the forum, but you seem to be a credible source of info lol. I'm assuming that cardio will eat into your gains while bulking, but while cutting it should help lean you out faster? Or is this a ridiculously oversimplistic way of looking at it? You don't have to go into massive detail if it's a complicated subject, but a link to something solid on the subject would be helpful if you have one.

Basically, roughly 4 months or so ago, I was weighing in at 16st (224lbs). The result of too little activity, and too much sugar and other rubbish in my diet. I had enough of it, and basically gave up sugar and reduced my portions dramatically. Switched from a carb heavy to protein/fat heavy diet. Still have carbs etc. just way more sensible about it. But I used HIIT routines almost daily to get the weight down to 13.5st (86kg/189lb). I really enjoyed it. I love the feeling of collapsing in a sweaty heap on the floor after workout.

Anyway, I have some flab left to get rid of. Not a lot, but my thinking was to do some HIIT on rest days until the body fat is where it should be. I know I could just count calories etc, but if burning it off the hard way is an option that won't be too detrimental to overall progression, I'd like to keep doing it. Again, I'm open to advice and willing to learn.


Damn, I like the soreness. I also like the central nervous system screaming at my muscles to push out one more rep feeling which I think will be coming in spades at various points along the program. Gotta love them endorphins.

Well basically there isn't really a difference between a calorie deficit from eating less or burning calories via cardio. Say your maintenance is 2000cals. If you ate 1500 a day you'd lose about a lb a week. If you ate 2000 and burned 500 a day you'd still be losing about a lb a week. Both options are a 500 calorie deficit. One involves hard physical work and the other involves hard mental work (to eat less.) Hope that makes sense.

[Lift4UrDaughter]

Finally. A clear-as-day statement. This is what I always try to explain to chubby people everytime they say they want to lose weight. It's just that it's not how I describe it (I always go as long as the river with calorie thing)
They ended up eating everything, no cardio, and hit abs 3-5 days per week instead.