Leaving out the deadlift...

[slayer6x6]

As a newb to the gym, I've been surfing here to find some good info. I have been in the gym now for about 2 months but due to chronic lower back pain I have been leaving out deadlifts and other exercises that have potential for lower back injury.

My question is, by leaving out a core excersise like this am really limiting my potential for bench press gains, and overall upper body muscle gain?

My usual routine goes something like this 3-4 times a week....

overhead tricep extension 3/10
preacher curls 3/10
bb bench press 3/10
db military press 3/10
db row 3/10
db curl 3/10
cable crossovers 3/10
db fly 3/10
situps 4/20

Just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time there...

[unity]

23 is pretty young to have chronic back pain. just curious, why do you have this problem?

your routine looks like that of an inmate. you should be able to make gains for your upper body. but without any core or leg work, you might end up looking kinda funny. that and you only have one exercise for lats and shoulders. if all you really care about are pecs and biceps, then you are golden.

[kevolution]

IMO,

You should do BB Bench Press first, followed by the fly's and cable crossovers. Always do compounds first unless you're trying to pre-exhuast. Then follow the chest with the military press and rows, then finally triceps and curls.

Where's your leg workout? Since you have lower back pain you'll probably have trouble with squats, but you can throw in a few leg presses in there.

[IronAbrams]

Not really, but you should address the cause of your lower back pain as soon as possible and not just use it as an excuse to not do lower back or leg exercises.

[Justin_Haines]

i really dont know much about anatomy yet but i will share my experience.

i had a horrible back already in my life for alot of years. as soon as i got my ass in the gym, it slowly got better to the point of rarely bothering me. the time it gets me most is crunches, but even with them, it slowly gets better, not worse, from doing exercise

[slayer6x6]

23 is pretty young to have chronic back pain. just curious, why do you have this problem?

your routine looks like that of an inmate. you should be able to make gains for your upper body. but without any core or leg work, you might end up looking kinda funny. that and you only have one exercise for lats and shoulders. if all you really care about are pecs and biceps, then you are golden.

The back pain is something that has been there for years, and after seeing numerous chiropractors I haven't really had any permanant fixes, which is a different story all on its own. I have kinda just learned to live with it...

As far as leaving out the legs, I have always been a little self consious about how skinny my upper body was, and the legs have always been kinda normal sized, so I figured if I start to look out of proportion, I would address the legs at that time. I figured I would kinda get flamed for it, but at this time yes I am mainly concentrated on abs, pecs, biceps and triceps. Beach muscles if you will...

IMO,

You should do BB Bench Press first, followed by the fly's and cable crossovers. Always do compounds first unless you're trying to pre-exhuast. Then follow the chest with the military press and rows, then finally triceps and curls.

Where's your leg workout? Since you have lower back pain you'll probably have trouble with squats, but you can throw in a few leg presses in there.

The list wasn't really in order, I didn't really have an order. My order kinda changes day by day depending on what machines are being used at that time. But I will take your advice on keeping it in order, thank you.

[xian]

you're missing everything below the belt.

if you can't deadlift/squat becuase of the back pain, try db lunges.

[2 HUGE]

what about rack pulls

they are great for putting on mass and adding strength to the back

[slayer6x6]

i really dont know much about anatomy yet but i will share my experience.

i had a horrible back already in my life for alot of years. as soon as i got my ass in the gym, it slowly got better to the point of rarely bothering me. the time it gets me most is crunches, but even with them, it slowly gets better, not worse, from doing exercise

I hear ya, on the days that my back is really bothering me I sometimes will substitute crunches with leg raises.

[slayer6x6]

what about rack pulls

they are great for putting on mass and adding strength to the back

I dunno man, I just youtubed what a rack pull looks like. That might put me out of commission for good lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zweyUSaJ6c

I'm gonna go hit the gym for a little now. I've been out for a week now waiting for a tattoo to heal so this will be my first time back since Saturday. Thanks for all the tips so far guys.

[unity]

slayer, really you dont have to do deadlifts. lots of people never do them. i rarely see anyone else doing them but me.

but i do think you are going about things the wrong way. have you seen an actual physician and specialist for your lower back? chriopractors are good for some things, but they are far from the only solution and often times they dont "fix" anything at all, which is why people have to keep going back for routine visits for the same problem.

i have heard stories from many people, like Justin in this thread, that strengthening thier back muscles has either greatly helped or gotten rid of thier lower back pains. if it were me, i would rather fix it than try to live with it.

[slayer6x6]

slayer, really you dont have to do deadlifts. lots of people never do them. i rarely see anyone else doing them but me.

but i do think you are going about things the wrong way. have you seen an actual physician and specialist for your lower back? chriopractors are good for some things, but they are far from the only solution and often times they dont "fix" anything at all, which is why people have to keep going back for routine visits for the same problem.

i have heard stories from many people, like Justin in this thread, that strengthening thier back muscles has either greatly helped or gotten rid of thier lower back pains. if it were me, i would rather fix it than try to live with it.

The only reason I was concerned about the deadlift is because almost every workout program I have been reading has the deadlift included somewhere, but I do feel better now that I'm not the only one not doing it.

I have not seen an actual physician about my back. Whenever I go to the chiropractor, they would either massage me, stick some electric shock things on me, or crack my back. They never really tried to diagnose me. Thats why I just stopped going. So when my new health ins. kicks in, I will be sure to make an appointment with a physician.

[AHTTG]

Most people out there don't deadlift. Unless you have problems with back thickness that cannot be fixed by doing rows, there's no NEED to deadlift.

[raythethird]

i really dont know much about anatomy yet but i will share my experience.

i had a horrible back already in my life for alot of years. as soon as i got my ass in the gym, it slowly got better to the point of rarely bothering me. the time it gets me most is crunches, but even with them, it slowly gets better, not worse, from doing exercise

My experiences are the same as this guy here...i started absurdly low on the squat and deadlift to build it up, and now my back is in better shape, and more painfree, than i can ever remember it being.

[Carmen0857]

overhead tricep extension 3/10
preacher curls 3/10
bb bench press 3/10
db military press 3/10
db row 3/10
db curl 3/10
cable crossovers 3/10
db fly 3/10
situps 4/20

Just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time there...

Your routine looks a little unbalanced, for example you have 12 sets for chest and shoulders and only 3 for back and lats, I would maybe drop the flies or cable crossovers and add pullups and maybe some rear delt flies to even that out. You probably also only need one bicep exercise if you are doing this workout 3x per week.

And did you ever consider you lower back pain being due to weak lower back and core muscles? I used to have back problems, but they pretty much went away completly when I started properly performing squats and deadlifts, started out extremely light of course...

[Marion_Cobretti]

there is a reason why you don't see people doing the deadlift in gyms these days. it is called back injury. many people don't do them correctly and destroy their back. i would advise not do them unless you have professional trainers with you.

[slayer6x6]

Your routine looks a little unbalanced, for example you have 12 sets for chest and shoulders and only 3 for back and lats, I would maybe drop the flies or cable crossovers and add pullups and maybe some rear delt flies to even that out. You probably also only need one bicep exercise if you are doing this workout 3x per week.

And did you ever consider you lower back pain being due to weak lower back and core muscles? I used to have back problems, but they pretty much went away completly when I started properly performing squats and deadlifts, started out extremely light of course...

Your right, it is a bit unbalanced. I will change the routine and see how it works out for me next week. I kind of developed the routine just by watching what other people were doing in the gym.

As far as trying to strengthen the lower back muscles, I will probably wait and speak with a physician before performing any weight training excersises that target those muscles.

[unity]

there is a reason why you don't see people doing the deadlift in gyms these days. it is called back injury. many people don't do them correctly and destroy their back. i would advise not do them unless you have professional trainers with you.

the reason people do not do deadlifts is because they have no idea what they are. was there ever a day when deadlifts were a trendy exercise performed in the gym?

i agree that you should make proper form your top priority for deads. i dont think you can attribute deads with destroying a lot of peoples backs. where are the studies that back up a claim like that?

you dont need professional trainers to teach you a deadlift. just be careful, and study up. watch some good vids. at the most you might want to have a partner to make sure your are not rounding your back. deads are not like the oly lifts.

[Big Arm Big Pay]

maybe for back you should do t-bar or bb row instead of dbs, dbs pretty much only hit lats for me

[Destructodave]

you dont have to do deads to build a great back. they are a great exercise but not a mecessity. i personally havent done them in years. as far as ur lower back, you might wanna work on your core like everyone here has said. for example my brother had a car wreck year or 2 ago and they told him hed have lower back pain the rest of his life, but since hes started back to the gym(since xmas) and been strengthening his lower back and core, he hasnt had any more lower back pain. just food for thought.

id prob. still check with your doctor first, if possible

[Canz]

i say you stick with deadlifts, remember
deadlifts dont hurt your back
bad form hurts your back

[Destructodave]

also, you can try this out and see if it helps. its what me and my brother have been doing for awhile now. during your warmup before every workout do a superset of bridges and planks. do a side bridge for each side and hold for 30-45 seconds, then do a normal plank for 30-45 seconds. it has seemed to help us out. also maybe on your off day do this circuit at least 1 time, i do it 3.

[commanderchobo]

i watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tG1y0gYRcw

and followed the ones that looked easiest to repeat and my back has improved 100 times over

i squat and deadlift and no problems, only time my back bothers me now is if i sit improperly in my computer chair or if i pass out in my car after a night at the bar

[JamesDavid]

I have a little advice on the lower back thing. Having broken my lower back i spent years with lower back pain. I decided to make my back strong and it really has cured me.

My advice follows

Get an exercise log and write everything you do in it.

Write a list of things that you can do to improve your back at the front of the book. You should easily be able to write 20 odd things that you are not currently doing.

My list would include:

First go strait to a physio, they will teach you good posture, how to hold you abs and stretches.

Do regular stretches, the ones the physio shows you or alternatively any martial art will teach you good stretches and lower back posture, you could take up a MA.

Diet, sleep, reduce stress, don?t drink alcohol, (this list goes on, just a matter of how much you want a strong back)

Posture, try to focus on posture at all times. I find that a heavy deadlift is no problem but sit on a couch in a bad posture and i am out of action for a week.!

Start with low impact exercises, i had to do hyperextensions for a year before graduating to deadlifts.

Work up slowly with deadlifts. Do higher reps focusing on form. I started deads with .25 my body weight, and still strained muscles LOL. The routine I used was 3 sets of 15 with 3 min rest between. Over time the tendons cartilage and muscle will respond. I am not massively strong by the standards of this forum but I can do 3 sets of 120kg deads now. Its taken years but it was worth it. Now I laugh at people who think they are strong because they have a big bench press. Yet when they bend over you can see their vertebrae at the base of their spine. Rather have mine hidden beneath a couple of ropes and an average bench???

[xian]

wow - first time i've seen a really good first post on any forum.. (serious)

would rep / on recharge / will forget.