Why am i stuck on keto/low carb for trying to gain muscle

[JonBana]

Just read those 2 posts and see what's going on.
As already mentioned, bulking is about a caloric surplus. Where the surplus comes from, is of secondary importance. What matters is that you chose your macronutrient distribution based on what optimises your performance and what suits your lifestyle. If that's keto, fine.
The real problem is, also already mentioned, that you have an irrational fear of carbs. After a mere one or 2 meals, carbophobia strikes and you want to switch back.
Bulking on leto is fine, but do it for the right reasons.

I'm really enjoying keto , but yes I don't know if im on keto for the right reasons... I love the food style of it making my own pizzas ice cream pies , bread I find it more challenging and laid back at the same time , only thing I find is I feel flat ... I've also notice I sweat more and get out of breath more , and everywhere I look carbs are needed for growth hense why people on keto do TKD or CKD ,

im just worried about carbs because ive been low carb for so long and now ive gone full keto I actually feel really good about myself besides looking half the size I normally do

I use to eat a pizza once a week and ice cream and full out binge and still stay under 10%BF I think keto being different and me not trying it before has trying it out , for maybe the wrong reasons specially being low BF already and training hard 5x a week 1.5 hours each and a 10 hour shift job 5x a week ,

just eating 3,500 calories on keto... doesn't leave much room for meats and animals because to much protein intake , that's the only downside is eating to much protein

[JonBana]

I don't understand what you are trying to say, up to you. If you want to go back to consuming carbs at some point all you have to do is stop trying to time and fool with them and eat them. Your fat loss or gain will be based on your intake and ouput.

If you are going to examine your body in the mirror after meals and look for "bloating" you are going to have an impossible time living a normal life. Even professional fitness models don't stay in photoshoot condition year round. Daily fluctuations in sub Q water are normal.

Your fears in this thread are irrational. Doesn't matter to me what you do, or prefer. Good luck.

yeah that's one thing I hated... I was always worried when to eat carbs because without them you crash...

keto you're always eating fat so you have constant energy not need to worry or stress when to eat fats..

[JonBana]

are you diabetic? i only ask because i'm curious as to why you bother checking your blood sugar.

Because I know something was wrong so I've started testing I think maybe im hypo reactive , even with 100g dextrose or vitgaro my mmol would never go above 6.0.. even eating an XL pizza and ice cream in one sitting , that 30-1 hour later crashed...

I've had all my blood tests done every test you can imagine and everything cam back perfect .

[Domicron]

Because I know something was wrong so I've started testing I think maybe im hypo reactive , even with 100g dextrose or vitgaro my mmol would never go above 6.0.. even eating an XL pizza and ice cream in one sitting , that 30-1 hour later crashed...

I've had all my blood tests done every test you can imagine and everything cam back perfect .

You've had every blood test you had come back negative for problems but you still think you have problems?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe these problems are best dealt with by a qualified medical professional.

I still stick with my original advice to stop looking for **** to worry about and just eat in a surplus. You might seek out a mental health care provider to gelp you gain some perspective about your problems.

I have one that i visit with sometimes and i fond it very therapeutic

[nicholina]

Ever consider a grey area? Keto is very very restricted. You can do a lower carb plan without being keto. You can eat higher carb foods to get more calories without consuming "high carb" foods like bread and oats. It doesn't have to be so black and white. For example, you could incorporate nuts, avocados, dairy products, beans/legumes, seeds, nut butters, fruits, starchier vegetables....these would all add carbs overall without being overkill. Generally keto diets avoid a lot of these because keto is SO low carb.
Just eat more food that doesn't make you sick. Stop trying to label your diet.

[ErikTheElectric]

Wouldn't even bother TBH. OP has proven via countless threads that he has issues with food.

[Mrpb]

just eating 3,500 calories on keto... doesn't leave much room for meats and animals because to much protein intake , that's the only downside is eating to much protein

That's not a concern while bulking on keto.

If you're cutting on keto protein needs to be kept moderate for lean mass retention. When you're bulking you don't have to worry about that.

[JonBana]

That's not a concern while bulking on keto.

If you're cutting on keto protein needs to be kept moderate for lean mass retention. When you're bulking you don't have to worry about that.

bulking isn't working that's the problem lol my maintenance on a normal diet is 2,400 calories im eating a 3,500 and still droping weight every single week lol and my muslces are not recovering and I feel sore and tired
im just use to eating 250+g of protein a day lol

[JonBana]

Wouldn't even bother TBH. OP has proven via countless threads that he has issues with food.

No im just confused , ever where you go people say you need carbs to grow muscles , I rather do it without carbs but every where you go there evidence saying you need carbs but yet common sense is calories in calories out to grow ,

I have no problem following a keto diet I like it , but the problem is I get confused about mixed research on whats optimal for muscle growth

[JonBana]

Ever consider a grey area? Keto is very very restricted. You can do a lower carb plan without being keto. You can eat higher carb foods to get more calories without consuming "high carb" foods like bread and oats. It doesn't have to be so black and white. For example, you could incorporate nuts, avocados, dairy products, beans/legumes, seeds, nut butters, fruits, starchier vegetables....these would all add carbs overall without being overkill. Generally keto diets avoid a lot of these because keto is SO low carb.
Just eat more food that doesn't make you sick. Stop trying to label your diet.

I eat nuts avocados , all those fun things on keto , I don't mind following keto as I enjoy it and find it very easy to follow and stick too I never was a fan of fruit to begin with and trust me I eat more veggies than 99% of the people on here with every single meal I love greens

I eat dairy as well full fat cream , cheese , etc I don't think theres much you cannot eat on keto besides carbs in portions ,

its just the fact i get confused about mixed research saying you need carbs for muscle growth

[Domicron]

bulking isn't working that's the problem lol my maintenance on a normal diet is 2,400 calories im eating a 3,500 and still droping weight every single week lol and my muslces are not recovering and I feel sore and tired
im just use to eating 250+g of protein a day lol

if you're honestly eating 3500 on a ketogenic and static on your weight, eating 3500 but including carbs isn't going to do more than a slight increase in water weight, initially.

btw are you ignoring my comments? because i've taken a decent amount of time putting them together, so if you don't want my advice just lmk and i'mma peace outta this joint

[JonBana]

You've had every blood test you had come back negative for problems but you still think you have problems?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe these problems are best dealt with by a qualified medical professional.

I still stick with my original advice to stop looking for **** to worry about and just eat in a surplus. You might seek out a mental health care provider to gelp you gain some perspective about your problems.

I have one that i visit with sometimes and i fond it very therapeutic

I just get confused with mixed research everywhere you go you need carbs carb carbs , I will admit my muscles hurt I look flat now as big I don't get pumps anymore.. but I don't mind the shredded look over the puffy blown up look but don't know if im actually building muscle or losing mucle

[Domicron]

I just get confused with mixed research everywhere you go you need carbs carb carbs , I will admit my muscles hurt I look flat now as big I don't get pumps anymore.. but I don't mind the shredded look over the puffy blown up look but don't know if im actually building muscle or losing mucle

as i said in the beginning:

you seem so far lost in the details that you can't see the basic principles.

if you want to stick to my "you're over-complicating things" theory, you need 2 things to get big and strong: a caloric surplus and a proper weightlifting routine.

if you're accurately tracking your macros and calories, and your weight is static, then you need to eat more. make sure you're on a good lifting routine and keep going. what is your lifting routine?

as far as keto goes: it doesn't matter. stop looking for answers or excuses in the details when it's the basics that progress is made.

[JonBana]

as i said in the beginning:


if you want to stick to my "you're over-complicating things" theory, you need 2 things to get big and strong: a caloric surplus and a proper weightlifting routine.

if you're accurately tracking your macros and calories, and your weight is static, then you need to eat more. make sure you're on a good lifting routine and keep going. what is your lifting routine?

as far as keto goes: it doesn't matter. stop looking for answers or excuses in the details when it's the basics that progress is made.

Im replying to mainly you , if you notice , lol because like you said you are the only person giving honest helpful advice ,

my training routine is a bro split 5days ,
chest/tri/abs
back/bie
shoulders/abs
legs
arms/abs
30 minute cardio after each full time training 1.5 hours total 4 sets of 10 reps usually for most movements , I do high volume , my weight has dropped maybe 5 pounts the most in big lifts since going to keto nothing drastic but im stil trying to find maintenance on keto for some reason I can eat way way way more on keto ,


I guess the main thing I do miss about carbs is the muscle fullness and pump ....
it just hard because like I said most research Says CARB CARBS CARBS than you have the odd research that says nope don't think so ,

I just don't want to waste time spinning my wheels and killing myself in the gym on keto long term if it isn't going to work ATM its early to tell but its not working to well I don't think recovery sucks but im still dropping weight do im adding more calories every week slowly , about 100 calories a week im doing , slow and steady

I know once I get adapted more I can do TKD or something but than again that involves carbs and proves carbs are needed lol

[Domicron]

the problem with that split is you're hitting each muscle group once per week. going high volume could also be burning lots of calories.

there's a reason most of the good beginner workout programs have you hitting each group 3 times a week and with probably a lot less volume than you're doing. you should look into those. even an 'intermediate' routine which has you hitting the full body twice a week is going to get you better progress than what you're doing now.

again, please notice this is all basic stuff. routine, caloric surplus. i encourage you to stop thinking about your blood glucose and other such nonsense.

if you like keto-friendly foods, then eat them. track your macros, get on a better lifting routine, cut down the volume to lower your TDEE, and you maybe surprised to see the benefits.

finally you may consider keeping a food journal. when you sit down at the end of the day to track your macros, write down any notes about foods and how you felt after eating them. you may just start to learn how eating certain foods can affect your performance in the gym, help with acid reflux, indigestion, sleep better, whatever.

TLDR:
1) caloric surplus (determined by the scale: does it go up?)
2) better workout routine and make sure you're achieving progressive overload
3) keep track of what you eat and how it makes you feel

[JonBana]

the problem with that split is you're hitting each muscle group once per week. going high volume could also be burning lots of calories.

there's a reason most of the good beginner workout programs have you hitting each group 3 times a week and with probably a lot less volume than you're doing. you should look into those. even an 'intermediate' routine which has you hitting the full body twice a week is going to get you better progress than what you're doing now.

again, please notice this is all basic stuff. routine, caloric surplus. i encourage you to stop thinking about your blood glucose and other such nonsense.

if you like keto-friendly foods, then eat them. track your macros, get on a better lifting routine, cut down the volume to lower your TDEE, and you maybe surprised to see the benefits.

finally you may consider keeping a food journal. when you sit down at the end of the day to track your macros, write down any notes about foods and how you felt after eating them. you may just start to learn how eating certain foods can affect your performance in the gym, help with acid reflux, indigestion, sleep better, whatever.

TLDR:
1) caloric surplus (determined by the scale: does it go up?)
2) better workout routine and make sure you're achieving progressive overload
3) keep track of what you eat and how it makes you feel

I can tell you what exactly I ate a year ago lol , nothing goes in my body without hitting my scale than my records even cheat meals or anything goes recorded , I track everything and anything to the dot !!

and yes I plan to change up my routine to a push/pull/REST/Push/PUll/LEGS/REST

I over think everything because I want the best possible results that are proven to work , if that involves eating the most degusting food I don't care I do it lol I didn't get this far in the short amount of time cutting any corners that's for sure ,

[Domicron]

I can tell you what exactly I ate a year ago lol , nothing goes in my body without hitting my scale than my records even cheat meals or anything goes recorded , I track everything and anything to the dot !!

and yes I plan to change up my routine to a push/pull/REST/Push/PUll/LEGS/REST

I over think everything because I want the best possible results that are proven to work , if that involves eating the most degusting food I don't care I do it lol I didn't get this far in the short amount of time cutting any corners that's for sure ,

if you want the most possible results, then my opinion you should be on a healthy bulk, like 400 calories, lifting 3 times a week with a barbell in the 5-8 rep range doing full body each time. from everything i've learned while on these forums, this is the best way to promote muscle growth. you will gain fat with this, but then you can transition to a cut once you've really put on some muscle without "wasting" your time in the gym by eating at maintenance.

because you won't be eating so close to maintenance, you can take the opportunity to put your years of meticulous counting to good use: stop doing it.

you have a great idea of how much you're eating by now without using the scale. step on the bathroom scale every morning, plot it into an excel chart with a rolling average (to keep things a little complicated for you). you're looking for maybe .5-.7 pounds/week gain.

[Mrpb]

Ever consider a grey area? Keto is very very restricted. You can do a lower carb plan without being keto. You can eat higher carb foods to get more calories without consuming "high carb" foods like bread and oats. It doesn't have to be so black and white. For example, you could incorporate nuts, avocados, dairy products, beans/legumes, seeds, nut butters, fruits, starchier vegetables....these would all add carbs overall without being overkill. Generally keto diets avoid a lot of these because keto is SO low carb.

This is very good advice.

if you're honestly eating 3500 on a ketogenic and static on your weight, eating 3500 but including carbs isn't going to do more than a slight increase in water weight, initially.

Personally I would not make that assumption, especially when dealing with someone with blood sugar issues.

[Domicron]

This is very good advice.



Personally I would not make that assumption, especially when dealing with someone with blood sugar issues.

Normally i wouldn't, except that he said doctor performed blood tests all came back negative.

[JohnSmeton]

I've always done low carb or carb cycling or CBL with great results ,

why am I stuck on ketosis for trying to gain size / bulk something in the back of my mind says STOP and go to a 40/30/30 or a 40/40/20 diet and get a good bulk in and don't be scared of carbs


the other side of my brain says stay KETO because is different and I enjoy the food and style of ketosis dieting ,

any inputs on what I should actually do?

We all know you don't need carbs to add muscle we all know both diets have their ups and downs , but why must I try to prove people wrong and show people you can bulk and gain size on a ketosis diet as well , and risk wasting time ....

to gain muscle you need carbs. Can you do it without carbs , sure but your making it way more difficult , just do what works. Train intense and yyou cant do this all the time or youll get injured so cycle training maybe 5 weeks hit and a month more volume and repeat. make sure injuries are healed up before beginning hit. most people dont know how to train intnese enough to put in muscle after the newbie gains, thats why people look the same year after year. to build muscle 1 minium to 1.5 protein, carbs, depending on metabolisn at least a gram per pound of bodyweight and if you have a gifted metabolism 2 grams and up. always pay attention to how your body responds and adjust accordingly/ fats 20-30 %

that said I wouldnt do keto longer than 3-6 months at a time, even for health benefits, either that or do a big cheat meal or days. I personally dont do well on keto. My brother does it however he does it for health benefits and not for gaining muscle

[Caezar07]

but why must I try to prove people wrong and show people you can bulk and gain size on a ketosis diet as well , and risk wasting time ....

No one cares, dude. You're not impressing anyone but yourself, and are just screaming insecurity.

OH I have a PWO shake and a delicious meal after just ZERO carbs

You seem really proud of this. Uhhh...congratulations???

....600 above my normal diet and im still sore everyday and not recovering , and lifts are going down , and I feel like im just losing muscle mass , I love the idea but maybe it just isn't for me or im pulling the plug to early ,

So you're not gaining weight, you feel flat, and you're getting weaker....

I use to eat a pizza once a week and ice cream and full out binge and still stay under 10%BF....

Keto just allows you to binge on (sometimes) processed salty fats like beef, bacon, sausage, and cheese. Nothing is inherently wrong with these foods, but I feel like many nutrition lifestyles can basically just allow people with eating disorders to binge. For example, intermittent fasting can be an excellent fat loss tool, but I often see people using it to simply allow themselves to binge on ice cream and peanut butter before bed time.

I get confused about mixed research on whats optimal for muscle growth

Even though you're discussing things at the margins that aren't statistically significant, it doesn't really matter if you're not gaining weight to begin with. 95% of your gains come from getting sufficient sleep, protein, calories, and practicing progressive overload primarily with compound movements.

I can tell you what exactly I ate a year ago lol , nothing goes in my body without hitting my scale than my records even cheat meals or anything goes recorded , I track everything and anything to the dot !!

Sounds like you have issues with food, maybe you should get some help.

[DannPM]

Are you scared of perceived body-fat gain, just scared of carbs, what is the root of this?

Some insulin resistance is indeed genetic (sucks, but it is what it is) and those people do better on lowered carbs, it just depends.

There are a good reasons for lowering carbs (inherent insulin sensitivity/resistance, diet adherence, etc.) and there are bad reasons (irrational fears, diet myths, etc.)

[Canadiantuxedo]

potato

[JonBana]

Alright thanks for all the replies every one , I'm really thank full , I need to get off these forums and internet for a few days or weeks and make up my mind ,

you guys can give all the advice you want but at the end of the day it still comes down to me

like I said I think the main thing is , keto is something new that's why its hard to leave it I want to make it work optimal or not ...

but thank you I will post in here when I come back may be Friday , may be a week but when I come back I will have a clear mind set thankyou

[Mrpb]

I just noticed this, even Volek thinks standard ketogenic isn't well suited for bulking and bodybuilding.

Even the lead author of the study, Dr Jeff Volek, believes that more carbohydrate is needed if you’re trying to build muscle.

Volek, a former Indiana state champion in powerlifting, is the co-author of numerous articles in scientific journals, with a number of book chapters, research presentations and abstracts wedged under his lifting belt.

“If you are trying to gain weight, my experience is that it is very difficult to prevent weight loss, let alone gain weight, on a strict ketogenic diet,” says Volek. “When you start doing higher repetitions like bodybuilders do, at least during some phases of their training, I do think there’s probably going to be some compromise in your ability to do those sets.”

http://muscleevo.net/ketogenic-diet-muscle-growth/

[JonBana]

After long thinking , and thinking....

I'm sticking with KETO , I enjoy the life style so far it's a change up from the normal typical western American diet , I also feel like im starting to adapt really well and things are changing ,


People say its pointless not optimal blah blah blah , what I've come to , most these people never tried it before it didn't give it long enough to sdapt correctly of where never in ketosis just low carb high fat high protein diet ,

so im going to stick to my guns and do my best to prove and show people you don't need carbs for the body building world , and I just enjoy it this way , im all natural I don't plan to be massive aka juice so why worry about every little detail and do what everyone else says ,

I also find on keto I don't use supplements really , food more laid back meal timing meh what ever , I feel more free and not addicted and stressed like I was on a normal diet trying to time every meal for insulin and crap ,

so im going to do at least 12 weeks total with weekly progress reports , measurements , weight and body fat percentage and see what happens ...

thanks

[Mrpb]

Today:

I'm sticking with KETO , I enjoy the life style

Two days ago:

I feel like **** and tired always

Couldn't help but notice

[TBU720]

Because ketosis feels amazing? And once you know the feeling of the steady energy level you get from keto, you don't wanna go back to having the blood sugar ups and downs that you had before. Carbs make me bloated, constipated, and make my joints hurt. I'm fine with them for carb ups every now and then but I'm happiest when I'm mostly in ketosis.

[sevenhm]

Not sure who you think you need to convince of anything. Your actions oppose what you say.

You've made multiple threads about the same subject since last month. You have been given ideas and advice on what to try and are still asking the same questions while stating that you still don't feel well. At this point it seems like you're unwilling to try anything else. Threads resulting in arguments and looped answers/questions with you agreeing in one then disagreeing in another isn't going to get you anywhere. You may want to consider seeking professional help.

Threads started by JonBana

[Caezar07]

OP all jokes aside, you need to see a therapist. You're under eating, obsessing over food, and perpetuating your unhealthy relationship with food. You're asking for advice but not willing to change, and instead you're really just trying to see how you can keep doing the same chit but get different results. I've learned that any time someone keeps doing the same chit, and expecting different results, there is almost certainly some type of emotional issue beneath the surface. It is imperative that you break this cycle, or else you'll be stuck in neutral the rest of your life. You need to be more self aware and come to terms with yourself, and then try to make an honest effort to improve yourself.

Someone else pointed this out, and I agree with them that you're simply avoiding carbs because it's your way of coping with the fact that you don't have the willpower to control your eating if you do eat carbs. You'd likely be back to binging on pizza and ice cream if you started eating carbs again.

Your problem with binging on carbs isn't caused by your lack of willpower. Your lack of willpower is caused by your undereating and trying to maintain too low of a body fat percentage. Personally, while I do occasionally enjoy sweets and processed carbs when bulking, I stay almost completely away from them when cutting (although I still get some carbs from oatmeal, fruit, and some bread) because eating sweets or junk food during a cut is just asking for trouble. Controlling binging or overeating is much more difficult when your body is starved.

That said, your low body fat in itself isn't really the cause of your issue with carbs. The root cause is probably low self esteem that's making you define yourself by your physique or some arbitrary body fat percentage number. This is why I suggest seeing a therapist, or finding a friend or family member you can discuss this with.

https://youtu.be/KG2Kt_9dQtk?t=7m35s

https://youtu.be/up_LxI-GUwo?t=14m2s