The Official Natty Thread - No Gear Talk - Moderated

[Nexxus]

^^^
what's your end weight and how many calories you ending your cut on?

[Znik]

^^^
what's your end weight and how many calories you ending your cut on?

Lowest weight, fully depleted and partially dehydrated was 202-203lbs. Won't know my true end weight until glycogen supercompensation goes away (was 220lbs before bed time last night )

Calories yesterday was around 5500-6000kcal. The cutting calories was 1200-1600 (cyclical diet, so only 3-5 days/week that low)

[Gxp23]

Cliffs on last week.

[Serb404]

Just depressing knowing that theres a limit to what is attainable. I wanna know what it feels like to be lean at 100kg and have 20 inch arms

lettuce be cereal

you've been watching too many Rich Piano videos

[TypeNirvash]

The curse of low trap inserts.

This is my life

[White-Belt]

Really appreciate it

Yeah, traps is a department where I am severely lacking. Will be attempting to develop them a little more during my next bulk. Hopefully they'll get much bigger this time around--lord knows I need em'!



To be honest, when you hit your natural limit, you'll likely look much better than you think. The natural limit is esoteric in my opinion. Most of us will never truly see it.

Those that do, I'd think, will be fairly well rewarded. After all, I think that the only way to hit the natural limit is to;

1) Train with progressive overload over the course of a decade.
2) Progress to a point where you can be honest about your dietary habits.
3) Be honest with yourself regarding your physique, without nit-picking.
4) When you stall, just consume a high surplus for a small amount of time to see if that adds weight.
5) Be patient.


^Most people get stuck somewhere along the way and end up turning to dat dere. But I believe truly that if you've stuck it through the entire time, you'll be rewarded with more than just a nice physique. You're likely going to get a great mindset from it along with a strong sense of body-image.

After all, people who turn to dat dere mid-way through are usually upset with something about their body--be it progress, or something else. They'll never truly be satisfied until they realize that they need to work on their body-image.


I mean, in the 50's men who looked like this were considered Bodybuilders.



To be honest, a guy walking around looking like that today still looks very good. The problem that we have now, is that we're clouded by pictures of guys that look like this;



And we're to assume that they look like that year-round. In reality, they really don't maintain that level of body fat year round because it's hard, and unhealthy. But the industry doesn't tell us that because they want our money. As a result, we're questing for the ultimate physique year round... We're constantly bombarded by pictures and advertisements of men who are in a state of physique that they only maintain for a few weeks out of the year and are brainwashed into thinking that it is where we need to be. That couldn't be further from the truth. At the same time, the physique above could definitely be attained naturally... but maintaining that level of shred naturally could be very tough.

But you know what? Looking like that guy from the 50's year round isn't a bad way to go.

Hell, something like this is probably the best way to go;


^At least with a physique like this, if you ever had some kind of event in which you needed to shred down you could do so in a fairly short amount of time. No reason to go to a lower BF% than this yearly...

And let's be real tea... Do you really need to be walking around like this?



Do you know the kind of money you would need to throw down to get like this? Hell, do you know that not even 1% of bodybuilders make enough money to consider it a career?

Not worth it, IMO.

Good post.

The natty limit is higher than many think IMO, always has been.

As pointed out, the problem for natties isn't so much muscle mass but being lean and carrying a lot if mass at the same time.

My best shape ever was 95kg, (210lbs), and all my abs showing.

Trouble is that is really only one moment in history, I held that shape for only a few days to a week, and then when I tried to get leaner still all than muscle just melted off - that is the one of the defining differences between natty and not. The ability to hold muscle very lean.

[TradeKing]

So close to the end;

Mirin brah, what's your weight in this pic?

[Luc1fer]

After all, people who turn to dat dere mid-way through are usually upset with something about their body--be it progress, or something else. They'll never truly be satisfied until they realize that they need to work on their body-image.

Good post; it takes time, patience and consistency to build a good physique naturally. It's a journey, a long journey - so it's important that a person makes it enjoyable. I really think bodybuilding needs to be balanced in with everything else in life - it's got to be part of a lifestyle you enjoy. And although the gains are slow, with ups and downs along the way, it's extremely rewarding to see the results.

I made a mistake by staying in that mode of self-criticism, never happy and always wanting to be better. At times in my life I obsessed, I avoided foods, I wasn't happy. You have to stop every few months and reward yourself, recognize the accomplishments and be fulfilled. That feeling didn't come for me until about 8 years in - it was the point where I didn't care so much about 'size' but focused on what I had really accomplished. I had met my initial goal. I let that sink in, and set new goals.

As a result, we're questing for the ultimate physique year round... We're constantly bombarded by pictures and advertisements of men who are in a state of physique that they only maintain for a few weeks out of the year and are brainwashed into thinking that it is where we need to be. .

A day or two is probably more realistic. I have friends who do some of those shoots, everything for months leads up to that one photoshoot - they dehydrate, pump up, drink wine the night before, get the perfect lighting, perfect photo angle, and then it's filtered and modified. They do not look anything close to that all year around.

[TypeNirvash]

Good post.

The natty limit is higher than many think IMO, always has been.

As pointed out, the problem for natties isn't so much muscle mass but being lean and carrying a lot if mass at the same time.

My best shape ever was 95kg, (210lbs), and all my abs showing.

Trouble is that is really only one moment in history, I held that shape for only a few days to a week, and then when I tried to get leaner still all than muscle just melted off - that is the one of the defining differences between natty and not. The ability to hold muscle very lean.

That's the thing. I feel like we can achieve amazing physiques with enough time and patience, but a lot of people don't have those virtues. When it comes down to it, we can look very good without being sub 10%. And honestly, I don't think it's necessary to be sub 10% in the long run.

Most people are very hyper-critical of themselves.

And yeah, once you hit a certain point as a natty... It just becomes very tough to maintain that level of muscle. Can be really rough on the mind, and very demotivating. I can understand why people would want to turn to the juice, but I don't think that most people understand what that entails.

Mirin brah, what's your weight in this pic?

I think I'm around 198ish currently!

Thanks, man, appreciate the kind words!

Good post; it takes time, patience and consistency to build a good physique naturally. It's a journey, a long journey - so it's important that a person makes it enjoyable. I really think bodybuilding needs to be balanced in with everything else in life - it's got to be part of a lifestyle you enjoy. And although the gains are slow, with ups and downs along the way, it's extremely rewarding to see the results.

I made a mistake by staying in that mode of self-criticism, never happy and always wanting to be better. At times in my life I obsessed, I avoided foods, I wasn't happy. You have to stop every few months and reward yourself, recognize the accomplishments and be fulfilled. That feeling didn't come for me until about 8 years in - it was the point where I didn't care so much about 'size' but focused on what I had really accomplished. I had met my initial goal. I let that sink in, and set new goals.



A day or two is probably more realistic. I have friends who do some of those shoots, everything for months leads up to that one photoshoot - they dehydrate, pump up, drink wine the night before, get the perfect lighting, perfect photo angle, and then it's filtered and modified. They do not look anything close to that all year around.

Exactly. A lot of people don't understand the intricacy of these shoots, and think that the job starts and ends at the photo-shoot. In reality, it takes months, and the physique is only held for a short amount of time. As fantastic as it is, it's just not realistic to look like that on a daily basis.

It's good that you broke out of that cycle--I think we've all been there at some point in our journey, and it is definitely a very "unhealthy" time when it comes to body image as well as our relationship with food.

I think it's always important to remember that we're hobbyists, and that some amount of lee-way is perfectly acceptable if you're not really competing. After all, even competitors aren't making a lot of money.

[Znik]

A day or two is probably more realistic. I have friends who do some of those shoots, everything for months leads up to that one photoshoot - they dehydrate, pump up, drink wine the night before, get the perfect lighting, perfect photo angle, and then it's filtered and modified. They do not look anything close to that all year around.

That phrase is extremely important for the hobbyist/normal bodybuilder to keep in mind. We are constantly bombarded with perfect setup pictures that usually has filters and photoshop (along with peds) as well.
Trying to reach the mainstream media physique and keep it is pretty much impossible. It's no wonder most of us will have some sort of body dysmorphia.

In the normal world , 10% body fat and a somewhat decent amount of LBM is shredded and huge compared to the average Joe, that's who you should compare against, not a model or a pro-bodybuilder who has left the natty world a long time ago.

^ Coming from the guy who just spend 6 months cutting and went through hellish mental battles, depletions and super compensation just to get as shredded as possible

[rZi]

So close to the end;

this is legit my goal body brah, srs

mirin

[TypeNirvash]

this is legit my goal body brah, srs

mirin

Aw shucks, man. Appreciate the compliment.

It doesn't take very long to get where I am currently, that's the good news!

[Znik]

Aw shucks, man. Appreciate the compliment.

It doesn't take very long to get where I am currently, that's the good news!

Think we actually have fairly similar trap inserts, same clavicle shape as well. Do your traps grow more like backwards rather than up and frontwards ?

[TypeNirvash]

Think we actually have fairly similar trap inserts, same clavicle shape as well. Do your traps grow more like backwards rather than up and frontwards ?

>.> To be honest, my traps are nearly non-existent. They haven't done much growing, but I actually did not do any direct trap work for the duration of my bulk.

But yeah, I think they look like they connect more to the back of my neck than they connect to the side of it lol

[Znik]

>.> To be honest, my traps are nearly non-existent. They haven't done much growing, but I actually did not do any direct trap work for the duration of my bulk.

But yeah, I think they look like they connect more to the back of my neck than they connect to the side of it lol

Mine pretty much do that, unless I flex and scrounge em up while pushing my neck down they look pretty damn small. While from the side they look pretty big.



Top pic even has a pump (few months old pic), while side pic doesn't.

[Serb404]

>.> To be honest, my traps are nearly non-existent. They haven't done much growing, but I actually did not do any direct trap work for the duration of my bulk.

But yeah, I think they look like they connect more to the back of my neck than they connect to the side of it lol

mirin gains srs

did you relatively keep your fats at a moderate level when bulking and just kept carbs mostly high with moderate protein since that doesn't matter too much while on bulk?

[D-Wade7288]

Mine pretty much do that, unless I flex and scrounge em up while pushing my neck down they look pretty damn small. While from the side they look pretty big.



Top pic even has a pump (few months old pic), while side pic doesn't.

Thats awesome bro! Continue.

Teach me the way srs....

[TypeNirvash]

Mine pretty much do that, unless I flex and scrounge em up while pushing my neck down they look pretty damn small. While from the side they look pretty big.



Top pic even has a pump (few months old pic), while side pic doesn't.

Yeah man, we have pretty much literally the same traps! I think as a result of our traps being similar, we also have a fairly similar shoulder structure.

By the way, mirin' your veins! Your physique has been looking absolutely phenomenal lately, gotta' say I've been seriously mirin'.

mirin gains srs

did you relatively keep your fats at a moderate level when bulking and just kept carbs mostly high with moderate protein since that doesn't matter too much while on bulk?

To be honest, as long as you're in a surplus you're going to grow. I hit my daily minimums, and ended up filling the rest of the calories however they happened to fill up throughout the day. The bulk was actually mainly to build as much strength as possible, so I let myself get kind of fat! Which was a good amount of fun.

Really appreciate the compliment, by the way!

[D-Wade7288]

Yeah man, we have pretty much literally the same traps! I think as a result of our traps being similar, we also have a fairly similar shoulder structure.

By the way, mirin' your veins! Your physique has been looking absolutely phenomenal lately, gotta' say I've been seriously mirin'.




To be honest, as long as you're in a surplus you're going to grow. I hit my daily minimums, and ended up filling the rest of the calories however they happened to fill up throughout the day. The bulk was actually mainly to build as much strength as possible, so I let myself get kind of fat! Which was a good amount of fun.

Really appreciate the compliment, by the way!

Getting a little fat is the point of a bulk right!?

[Znik]

Thats awesome bro! Continue.

Teach me the way srs....

The way in what ?

Yeah man, we have pretty much literally the same traps! I think as a result of our traps being similar, we also have a fairly similar shoulder structure.

By the way, mirin' your veins! Your physique has been looking absolutely phenomenal lately, gotta' say I've been seriously mirin'.

Yep, seem to have similar upper body bone structure. Probably why traps are similar indeed.

Unless I fked up the angles I should have some pretty sick pics from the glycogen depletion state (dried up nicely,flat though), mid super compensation (veins gone crazy) and hoping to get some during the maxed out super compensation if my stupid head will let me, didn't get to do a workout yesterday since the headaches were too bad. Hoping to get one in today before I lose most of the super compensation.

Getting a little fat is the point of a bulk right!?

That it is. I tend to gain tons of it because fat gain doesn't scare me anymore


While we are on the subject of traps, I did read a article on training them, especially in terms of shrugs and such. And found out it's important to flex them back and up during shrugs to achieve full ROM.
Flexing straight up reduces the ROM due to mobility and neck getting in the way, while back and up allows for full ROM.

[Drake7]

mirin hard znik and typenirvash. you guys have top % natty physiques for sure.
also in on ****ty shoulders/traps crew (maybe we are just used to seeing cell-techers with boulders?"

[Znik]

mirin hard znik and typenirvash. you guys have top % natty physiques for sure.
also in on ****ty shoulders/traps crew (maybe we are just used to seeing cell-techers with boulders?"

Cheers.

Mostly I imagine it's just upper body width + trap inserts. You can see super skinny guys with huge traps simply because their inserts are so high.
Same goes for people with narrow upper bodies, trap length gets shortened thus the angle gets steeper and gives the illusion of bigger traps.

[Znik]

Damn it, missed the super compensation dryness yesterday since I couldn't lift and today I am soaking wet. Size wise I look decent (arms back up to nearly 17"), but definition is nowhere near where it was when I was dry.

Stupid headaches making me waste a near perfect super compensation.

[Serb404]

To be honest, as long as you're in a surplus you're going to grow. I hit my daily minimums, and ended up filling the rest of the calories however they happened to fill up throughout the day. The bulk was actually mainly to build as much strength as possible, so I let myself get kind of fat! Which was a good amount of fun.

Really appreciate the compliment, by the way!

this ^ and yeah pretty much what I did for my last one but this time around I plan to go longer in a surplus and stay on dat linear progression

always find myself getting too "bored" with that type of training and need to stick to it longer this time

[-Gin-]

^ Good to see you in here, Serb


Been a while, boys. How's everyone been?

On top of my usual lower back pain (nothing serious...just been going on for ~10 months now, so annoying more than anything), I somehow ended up tweaking my right shoulder 3 weeks ago. Currently steering clear of OHPs and not going over 2 plates on bench...tfw feel like I'm losing muscle mass

[Serb404]

^ Good to see you in here, Serb


Been a while, boys. How's everyone been?

On top of my usual lower back pain (nothing serious...just been going on for ~10 months now, so annoying more than anything), I somehow ended up tweaking my right shoulder 3 weeks ago. Currently steering clear of OHPs and not going over 2 plates on bench...tfw feel like I'm losing muscle mass

always good to see a Gin post itt and how has training been with the back? Are you still at planet fitness lol?

stopped OHP for awhile too due to right shoulder pain know dat pheeling

[-Gin-]

always good to see a Gin post itt and how has training been with the back? Are you still at planet fitness lol?

stopped OHP for awhile too due to right shoulder pain know dat pheeling

Back's still gets tight / hurts every now n then, so keeping off DL/squats...

And yep, still at Planet Fitness. Though they're going to be getting rid of the bench press (flat/incline), squat rack, and leg press on the 25th, so I'll probably have to go gym shopping soon...

How've you been? Bulking/cutting/maintaining? Lifts keeping strong?

[Nexxus]

Is it just me or do deadlifts just feel way better in general without a belt. I feel like my lower back is rounding less and it's safer for me. All the while im able to lift the same weight beltless?!

[-Gin-]

Is it just me or do deadlifts just feel way better in general without a belt. I feel like my lower back is rounding less and it's safer for me. All the while im able to lift the same weight beltless?!

How much do you DL? I felt fine beltless up 'til ~455 lbs, but anything higher, I felt safer using a belt.

[Serb404]

Back's still gets tight / hurts every now n then, so keeping off DL/squats...

And yep, still at Planet Fitness. Though they're going to be getting rid of the bench press (flat/incline), squat rack, and leg press on the 25th, so I'll probably have to go gym shopping soon...

How've you been? Bulking/cutting/maintaining? Lifts keeping strong?

that sucks, no bench, squat, or even leg press = cancel membership son

been busy with work and school cuz, kinda just maintaining right now and eating whatever

can't complain but hope back gets better thoon