The Official Natty Thread - No Gear Talk - Moderated

[Luc1fer]

Alright brahs- missed you goons SRS.

Been trying get ITT as much as possible and see what the latest is. After my first bodybuilding comp that I completed about a month ago I think I am going to take some extend time off and just enjoy training and making gains!

But I always like hearing your guys take on things: your thoughts on Volume vs Frequency training? Example hitting each muscle group hard once per week vs 2+ times per week?

I dropped from 2x per week to 1x per week and noticed no loss. But this was after a decade of lifting.

[D-Wade7288]

I dropped from 2x per week to 1x per week and noticed no loss. But this was after a decade of lifting.

I have been at it for about 4 years (2 of actually knowing what in the world I was doing). First I trained lower volume 2x per week, then I trained 2x per week with higher volume and higher calories. Now I would say I am at medium volume coming off of the extreme deficit, I just wanted to ensure I was utilizing my rebound as much as possible. However, I think that window of opportunity has passed.

Considering dabbling into the powerlifting world as well.

[Znik]

I have been at it for about 4 years (2 of actually knowing what in the world I was doing). First I trained lower volume 2x per week, then I trained 2x per week with higher volume and higher calories. Now I would say I am at medium volume coming off of the extreme deficit, I just wanted to ensure I was utilizing my rebound as much as possible. However, I think that window of opportunity has passed.

Considering dabbling into the powerlifting world as well.

The rebound effect would depend if you lost any muscle/lbm during the contest prep. If you did then the rebound will last until it's regained, the theoretical time frame to do so is 2 years to a lifetime

For the frequency, personally I haven't seen any benefit for a natty to drop to 1x/week unless your goal is to purely maintain. If anything a increase in frequency would probably be better if mass is your goal, since MPS is reduced in advanced lifters. One of the more promising ideas lately is to split the workouts (once in the morning and once in the evening each lifting day) to maximize MPS due to the rapid drop in advanced lifters.

But unless you have a lot of free time or a home gym that option is not exactly a viable thing for the Average Joe. For those a radical change in the exercise routine (movements,loads,rep range,volume) might be more beneficial, to provide a different muscle and CNS stimuli compared to what you have been doing before.

TuT,Volume and Frequency seems to still be pretty much the key to maximize growth if that is your goal, keeping near max of what your recovery allows.

That's my views from what I've read in the more recent time at least.

[White-Belt]

I have been at it for about 4 years (2 of actually knowing what in the world I was doing). First I trained lower volume 2x per week, then I trained 2x per week with higher volume and higher calories. Now I would say I am at medium volume coming off of the extreme deficit, I just wanted to ensure I was utilizing my rebound as much as possible. However, I think that window of opportunity has passed.

Considering dabbling into the powerlifting world as well.

Do the powerlifting, you will be better as a result.

I did a lot of powerlifting type workouts, on PL style split and I added more muscle than at any point when I was lifting.

[LaughingStorm]

Do the powerlifting, you will be better as a result.
I did a lot of powerlifting type workouts, on PL style split and I added more muscle than at any point when I was lifting.

Plus, feels great when you can put up much more serious weight when you go back to doing higher volume.

[White-Belt]

Plus, feels great when you can put up much more serious weight when you go back to doing higher volume.

Das it mane... It works on a lot of level

[KRANE]

Embrace being a fatass?

Like the man said, the sculpted statue was already there. You just needed to chip away at the useless parts.

There is one awesome way to get huge legs and calves, become morbidly obese cat. II

Big legs fkin sucks though, virtually impossible to get a pair of jeans that actually fits.

Not really an isolated event when you're over 6 foot.

[Muzzlrpress]

Do the powerlifting, you will be better as a result.

I did a lot of powerlifting type workouts, on PL style split and I added more muscle than at any point when I was lifting.

Is there anything powerlifting can't do?

[Nexxus]

I've pretty much given up and just stick with jeans that are 4-8 sizes too big on the waist, looks like crap but at least they fit. The bodybuilder jeans are just so freaking expensive, and since like 90% of all Norwegians got the apple shape type of fat, phat luck finding jeans with big thighs anywhere.

just saw this. But dude, I've always had trouble finding jeans that fit well since legs are my thickest/most genetically gifted bodyparts... until I discovered these mostly cotton/polyester jeans that fit more like leggings or sweatpants and they stretch out so they're just so damn comfortable to wear, I could literally do squats in them.

http://store.diesel.com/be/men/onlinestore/joggjeans

I'm sure other brands have some similar style jeans. But yeah, these are basically the only jean materials I ever buy now. They're so damn comfortable, got 3 jeans from diesel of this material now and they're all 2-4 waist sizes smaller than what I wear with normal jeans. Notice how the pair I'm wearing don't even have an opening at the top because they literally stretch out so far I can just pull them on/off.





see I told you you can squat in these lol

[Drake7]

yeah those thight stretchy jeans are super comfortable. never had a problem finding jeans, maybe cus manlet with big waist.

[Znik]

yeah those thight stretchy jeans are super comfortable. never had a problem finding jeans, maybe cus manlet with big waist.

I've tried some of the stretchy jeans brands, couldn't find any that fit decently there either. Maybe I can now that I am shredded, but not sure if I want jeans that fit for a couple of weeks once a year

[Znik]

Since I am getting close to my breaking point, I've decided to rev it up and see when I break.

So, time for bigger deficit and full glycogen depletion focus on my workouts between my refeeds (apart from one max intensity workout on the start of refeed day). I've had a massive refeed two days ago and 2 days of full rest to recover, so lets see how long it takes before I fully break.

Goal is going to be to get those lat,delt and trap striations and tie-ins to pop better.

Spoiler!

[D-Wade7288]

Any good PL routines you would recommend? 5/3/1 seems to be the typical. I saw Matt Ogus had a 7/5/3 split I believe he was working with for a bit.

[Znik]

From Lyles UD 2.0

Nausea, intense muscular burning and fatigue are going to be your new friends on these workouts.

Can confirm, especially if you replace most of the isolation with compounds.

[boojurns]

Haven't lifted properly since my close mate passed away about two weeks ago. Haven't been eating much either. 10:30pm here now and about to go do a lower body workout, hold me brahs

[adamsz]

Any good PL routines you would recommend? 5/3/1 seems to be the typical. I saw Matt Ogus had a 7/5/3 split I believe he was working with for a bit.

I like Sheiko personally. There's a newer app with a bunch of different programs on it depending on your lifter classification (where your 1RMs fall in relation to your body weight).

[Serb404]

In4 natty thread gains

Been lifting serious for only 2 years, brb while in college I did the typical chest, back, shoulders and arms repeat split of piss

On dat strength hypertrophy time now and love it

[Znik]

Haven't lifted properly since my close mate passed away about two weeks ago. Haven't been eating much either. 10:30pm here now and about to go do a lower body workout, hold me brahs

My condolences, that sucks man.

Have a bro hug to get pumped for lower body *obligatory no-homo tag*

[Serb404]

Any good PL routines you would recommend? 5/3/1 seems to be the typical. I saw Matt Ogus had a 7/5/3 split I believe he was working with for a bit.

5/3/1

Madcows 5x5

Cube Method

Candito 6 week strength program

enjoy brah

[LaughingStorm]

Like the man said, the sculpted statue was already there. You just needed to chip away at the useless parts.

Statues are pretty.

Mountains are majestic.

[Serb404]

Guys if you're in a stage where you got injured and gained like 10lbs (eating bad / not giving a fuk cause I couldn't train) would you mini cut and start a bulk again?

I'm probably 16-17% right now and part of me needs to get bigger / stronger but I don't wanna be a fat ass.

Any personal experiences or views?

CARBS, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD, AND GAINS

it's all in your head dude, if you successfuly cut before you know you can do it at any time, personally it's harder for me to make strength gains so I am focusing on that for awhile now

[LaughingStorm]

CARBS, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD, AND GAINS
it's all in your head dude, if you successfuly cut before you know you can do it at any time, personally it's harder for me to make strength gains so I am focusing on that for awhile now

You find high carbs to be that beneficial?

Anybody make decent size gains on low carb but really high fat diets?

[Serb404]

You find high carbs to be that beneficial?

Anybody make decent size gains on low carb but really high fat diets?

just from my experience I eat when hungry and keep my fats low to make up for my larger meals that already have a good amount of fat in them.

low carb for me doesn't work I can physically perform at work and feel tired like that, just doesn't work for my lifestyle

[Znik]

You find high carbs to be that beneficial?

Anybody make decent size gains on low carb but really high fat diets?

Those with crappy insulin sensitivity genetics do aka those that actually adapt splendidly to keto. For others (the general population) it's carbs all the way if you want mass.

[BlueSasquatch]

High carb diets work great for me while powerlifting, energy out the ass.

I wear some Levi jeans, they are comfortable enough, big enough in the thighs but not to big in the waist, something like comfort fit, idk, I can't seem to find the tag on them anywhere calling out specifics.

I did powerlifting style workouts for the majority of my size, strength being more important to me than size, when was the last time you saw someone small deadlift, squat or bench a car? Work towards a 500 bench, when you get there you will be a big SOB. But im chasing some volume/size workouts these days, with GVT.

5/3/1 is the way to go.



GVT week three, still sucks.

Benched on Sat, 10x10@225 in about 18 minutes, rest time (60s) is the killer here, still not at 60% which is a bit frustrating, it's failure at the lockout, need to focus on triceps a bit more, close grip bench press is my go-to, but hard to want to do, or destroy when the normal flat 10x10 does it for me.

Tuesday had squats, 10x10@280 in about 25 minutes, some bae walked in on set 5 and I cranked out 10 without stopping, opposed to a more moderate pace, ruined the next 5 sets, starting to get near a true killer working weight I feel. Hamstring holding up fine, wanting to hit 315 10x10 before the end of the program, which isn't a set time frame.

Wednesday did military behind the head, couldn't hang in there like before, 5x10@110, then 5x8@95. Behind the head is killer, feeling like a puss with 25s on there. Then threw in 10x10@135 DB rows, in 12.5 minutes, and various other shoulder lifts, when I cut my shoulders get a bit smaller, dont have that fullness to them, but when I am eating more, they're full and striations pop when I lift, so it makes me want to cut, but then they go away, doing something wrong, but chasing those DLB pumpkins man, hard to get natty I guess.

DOMs from squats kicked in this morning, need electrolytes or something.

[toneekay]

Any good PL routines you would recommend? 5/3/1 seems to be the typical. I saw Matt Ogus had a 7/5/3 split I believe he was working with for a bit.

I've come up with my own elaborate PL (w/ a little BB) routine if you're up to try it. I usually fall back on this because it's always helped me with gaining strength. It's super basic and only incorporates your main compound.

Week 1

Monday - Pull
> Hyper-extensions (body weight -- warm up), 3x10
> Pull-ups (body weight -- warm up), 3x10
--- Deadlifts
--- 8, 5, 3, onto heavy single reps until you can't anymore
> Pick 3 of your favorite back exercises and hit them 4x15 w/ moderate weight (This is the BB aspect of the program; I recommend choosing a row for thickness and a the other two for lat development)

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Push
> Push-ups (body weight -- warm up), 3x10
> Dips (body weight -- warm up), 3x10
--- Flat Bench Press
--- 8, 5, 3, onto heavy single reps until you can't anymore
> Pick 3 of your favorite chest exercises and hit them 4x15 w/ moderate weight (This is the BB aspect of the program; I recommend doing DB work. One more flat press, and the others can be like flies and pullovers, etc... Avoid incline work)

Thursday - Rest

Friday - Legs
> Body weight squats, 3x10
> Body weight walking lunges, 3x10 steps each leg (60 steps)
--- Squat
--- 8, 5, 3, onto heavy single reps until you can't anymore
> Pick 3 of your favorite leg exercises and hit them 4x15 w/ moderate weight (This is the BB aspect of the program; I recommend doing isolation work. One more flat press, and the others can be like flies and pullovers, etc... Avoid incline work)

Saturday - Shoulders (optional)
> Rotator Cuff exercises, stretching, and everything. I don't use any weight over 5lbs for any of this just to get my delts lubed up and ready for some good old military pressing. This is a feeler and you should keep on doing it until you feel ready (have no discomforts).
--- Standing BB Military Press
--- 8, 5, 3, onto heavy single reps until you can't anymore
--- Friendly tip: Set your safety hooks on the outside of a power rack about mid chest, this'll prepare/set you up for pressing a lot easier.
> Pick 3 of your favorite delt exercises and hit them 4x15 w/ moderate weight (This is the BB aspect of the program; I recommend doing isolation work on each of the heads)

Sunday - Rest



Week 2

This is pretty much the same as Week 1 except for your 8, 5, 3 reps you'll want to utilize some type of resistance training or a different method/variation of hitting that lift. For example:

Deadlifts - I would do deficit deads standing on top of two plates stacked on each other, this'll help my "off the ground" pull. Or sometimes I would do rack pulls which helps the second half of my pull. You can also mix up some traditional, semi-sumo, or full sumo stance.

Bench - I LOVE doing negatives and static holds for bench. If anything, I think this is the actual key to me increasing my bench which is a staple technique for e.

Squat - Same thing with benching, controlling the weight and pause squats do wonders.

Military Press - These can be tricky... A lot of time's people would say standing press is the way to go, however I like to switch it sometimes to seated military if you have one. DB presses also help out too.





Like I said, this is my own "go to" PL type routine that I've created. It works great for me and to give you an idea of how I progressed on it, here are my 1RM numbers (weak numbers I know) from like a 2 1/2 month training cycle: D 365 to 425, B 245 to 305, S 335 to 405.

[LaughingStorm]

Those with crappy insulin sensitivity genetics do aka those that actually adapt splendidly to keto. For others (the general population) it's carbs all the way if you want mass.

Now you got me wondering if I have chitty insulin sensitivity.

I feel very energetic on high fats with low to no carbs. High carb and sugary foods make me a little ill.

Must Google this.

[toneekay]

High carb crew checking in!

I swear if I eat a chit load of carbs (mainly pasta, I love pasta) and chit it all out like a day prior to doing some heavy ass lifts. IT NEVER FAILS!

[Znik]

Now you got me wondering if I have chitty insulin sensitivity.

I feel very energetic on high fats with low to no carbs. High carb and sugary foods make me a little ill.

Must Google this.

Just use the Znikoogle.

You can find the calculations in my first book The Ketogenic Diet but, very roughly, for every 2 moderate rep sets, you might need 5 grams of carbohydrates to replace the glycogen used. For a fairly ‘long’ 24 set workout, that’s only 60 grams carbs (24 sets * 5 grams/2 sets) to replace the glycogen. Of course, you need more calories than that to cover growth but I think the point is made: carb requirements from weight training simply aren’t that big unless volume is very high.

Additionally, genetic insulin sensitivity (which can vary 10-fold) at the same level of body fat is another factor. Successful bodybuilders seem to have a propensity to more effectively store calories in muscle (as opposed to fat) better than less successful bodybuilders. Part of that is their training volume but part of it is assuredly genetic (and please note that there is more to this story than just insulin sensitivity, you can think of it as nutrient sensitivity perhaps).

As discussed in Insulin Sensitivity and Fat Loss, people with good insulin sensitivity do better with higher carbs but people with poorer insulin sensitivity often do better with lowered carbs and higher fat intakes. They tend to not only feel better but grow as well without gaining as much fat.

And while training certainly improves insulin sensitivity (it’s arguably the most powerful tool we have to do so), for folks with truly ****-poor genetic insulin sensitivity, carbs may still have to be kept fairly moderate even while gaining. They may do better with perhaps 1 g/lb (with a minimum of perhaps 150 g/day) with the remainder of their caloric intake coming from fats after protein intake has been taken care of.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...gains-qa.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...you-need.html/

[Znik]

If you have truly crappy insulin sensitivity (like where even 150g makes you feel horrible), a cyclical low carb approach might be even better, just a prolonged cycle instead of the usual 3-5 low carb days you would do 14-21 or more days and a refeed (depending on when glycogen depletion is reached)

If carbs doesn't give you the mental and physical boost, fat can play that role fairly well after adapting to a ketogenic diet, positive nitrogen balance is usually reached within 3-7 days of low carb (as ketones start coming into play).
But it is only beneficial for those where carbs doesn't give the lifting boost but fat and ketones does.