Eating Disorder Support Thread: Recovery in Numbers (2nd Edition)

[Strength93]

Strength, is it real hunger or psychological? What is your nightly routine?

Well, that is another big problem. I can't tell I can feel it in my stomach = it feels empty...

EDIT: nightly routine: watch TV with parents/friends and go to bed (and I become extremely hungry!).

[determined4000]

Strength93

your body is telling you to FEED IT!!!
listen

[ErikTheElectric]

For all of those ITT. I just finished up "Part two" of my story, which is on my YouTube channel.


I figured I'd share it here:





Take it easy everyone, be kind to yourselves and to your bodies.

[repower]

@sonnydfrizzy
I think that I never had one, or at least that I recognize it. Why do you think otherwise?

[sonnydfrizzy]

@strength
It is not your body saying feed me. If you truly have a habit of eating at night, then it needs to not become an obsession where you are eat LOADS of food before bed.

Remember that hunger is largely hormonal, and the times when you feed yourself consistently are going to be habitual "feeding/hungry" times.
That empty weird gurgling feeling in the stomach is something to which I can relate. I have dealt with that for a lonnnnnggggg time; it does go away!

Just like telling an overweight person to not eat their 3pm coffee and croissant, you have to establish a new habit. Add something in rather than taking something away.

**Quick caveat: you must be eating properly throughout the day and this takes some time to get back to normal in terms of hunger and satiety, just due to hormones again.

So add in a habit of a glass of warm milk, then brush your teeth and go to bed. My dad has his metamucil (fiber supplement) in water and then heads up to brush his teeth. Maybe it is reading a book, or something else that's conducive to sleep.

Whatever you add in, enjoy the process and do not change anything else. There is also NOTHING WRONG with eating before you go to bed, so long as you are not making it a massive meal! Personally, I will have a bowl of oats and a scoop of whey before sleep every night. It has become such a habit that I can be running around all night and amped up, but when I have the oat bowl I immediately feel like I need to go to sleep lol

So find your habit and ADD (not subtract). Good luck!

[Aurora215]

I'm 21, 5'11" and 123lbs. I love running. I hate lifting. I suck at it. I have no energy in the gym. But I do it anyway because I figure that I need the strength/muscle. Honestly, I feel as if running has contributed greatly to my weight loss. I've lowered my mileage to about 8 miles per week. All I want to do is run because it helps with my anxiety/depression.

I hate being this size. It's embarrassing. People think I'm 16. My intake is currently ~2200kcal. For some reason, I have some severe mental block whereby I cannot bring myself to eat any more than that, as if it would be unhealthy to do so.

How do I get over this mental block? Should I lift? Should I run? Any advice?

[ShyGuyXS]

@Aurora - Welcome!

At least in my experience, the things I feared the most (i.e. eating more, stopping the exercise temporarily until the body could heal properly, and gaining weight that needed to be there) were in fact the best and healthiest changes I could make. Sometimes, though, the anxiety can overpower the logic, and many people that I got to know while inpatient, including myself, simply couldn't rationalize those changes at first. In complete honesty, I still struggle at times to recognize that it's for the best, but that is just part of trusting the process.

Like you, I also reached the point where I really couldn't take it anymore - being cold, feeling embarrassed when around family/friends, the weakness... yet I was too deep in the disorder to do anything of my own accord - the blocks were in the way. I needed to rely on professional support for at least the first few months because my brain and state of mind were so fragile and malnourished that my decision-making was not great... at all.

Are you working with professional help, such as with your doctor and a therapist and/or dietitian who specialize in working with patients with EDs? If not, that would be a great starting point, because you are quite honestly dangerously underweight, as I was not too long ago. Continuing the running and lifting can do more harm than good, especially if your body isn't being properly nourished.

[Strength93]

@Sonny
TY for always giving me thorough and encouraging responses
Maybe I don't eat enough during the day, but it is hard to know when I try my hardest not to count! I just try to eat balanced meals (eat proteins/carbs/fats along with some micronutrients at every meal).

[jordxnk]

I'm 21, 5'11" and 123lbs. I love running. I hate lifting. I suck at it. I have no energy in the gym. But I do it anyway because I figure that I need the strength/muscle. Honestly, I feel as if running has contributed greatly to my weight loss. I've lowered my mileage to about 8 miles per week. All I want to do is run because it helps with my anxiety/depression.

I hate being this size. It's embarrassing. People think I'm 16. My intake is currently ~2200kcal. For some reason, I have some severe mental block whereby I cannot bring myself to eat any more than that, as if it would be unhealthy to do so.

How do I get over this mental block? Should I lift? Should I run? Any advice?

I can relate to that 'mental block' you're talking about. I would recommend just slowly increasing your intake by 50-100 calories every couple of weeks.
It took me about 2 months to get over my fear of eating over 1500 calories while recovering. Also, reminding myself that caloric information on food isn't completely accurate either helped me to overcome my fear of calories. It's just a number.
I'm still a noob at lifting but i would recommend lifting too as this has dramatically reduced my anxiety, given me so much confidence and has helped me to understand the value of food.

[determined4000]

@aurora

Chances are you hate lifting because you are weak and have no energy in the gym due to your low food intake.
Lifting is no fun when you feel weak an have no energy.
You can only overcome this by eating more, fueling your body, giving it what it needs to grow and produce MUSCLE!

Once you become sick and tired of being sick and tired, you will do what is necessary to change.
I encourage you to see professional help to enable you to get to this point.

[muruku]

Is there a basic template on how to just get back to normal?
Eat maintenance calories, stop cardio and just lift?

[determined4000]

@muruku
stop counting cals
eat intuivtively
focus on thing s outside diet and exercise

[Aurora215]

Today I had a uni exam. I had an anxiety attack halfway through. Had trouble breathing. Needed fresh air. The supervisors very reluctantly let me outside. I took a minute, calmed down, went back in and finished it (but only just).

@shyguy
Thank you for your insight. You're right. I can't do this alone. I am seeing a psychologist. We talk about my weight often. His advice is sound. Eat more, exercise less. But I don't like him and I don't trust him. I think I should find another psychologist that I feel more comfortable with.

@jordxnk
I like your advice. I think I would feel more comfortable with gradually adding more and more food and tapering off the exercise. Making small changes. I think I'll just get too stressed and worsen my anxiety with anything too drastic.

I agree with your comment about calories. I don't think I'm all that bothered about 'calories'. Just the way I 'feel' is what truly matters to me. It mattered to me once. But not anymore.

Going out to a restaurant tonight. Could be served up a 1000 calorie meal. And that's fine with me. Will go to a dessert bar with my friends tomorrow night. As long as I have a good time, that's all I want.

@determined
Yes, you're right. I tend to place a lot of emphasis on eating AFTER I workout. But not nearly enough BEFORE I workout. I think I probably need some kind of gym 'buddy' as well. Lifting feels kinda lonely to me.

[Aurora215]

@determined
What/how much should I be eating before lifting? Or is it going to be more dependent on what I ate the day before?

I've been eating a lot of oats. Helps me feel calm. But there's barely any kcal in that.

[AddingPins]

@Aurora

I'm really sorry to hear about your anxiety attack. I have a lot of experience with those myself and they are anything but fun. It seems like you are under a lot of stress right now and that could be affecting your appetite and exaggerating that feeling of 'fullness' that you get from your food….however I do feel like I should mention the following.

Something to consider is that you may not 'feel' bothered about calories but it seems that you are fully aware of the caloric content of everything and like you said, feel as though you cannot eat more than 2200cals. That tells me that you are still consciously or subconsciously calculating your intake and that is just going to add to your current struggles. Oats used to make me feel calm as well because in the back of my mind I knew they were not caloric and I knew they were "clean"…so they felt safe. I challenge you to do your best to break free of this.

I used to defend my keeping tabs on calories because it 'helped me eat more' but when I was honest with myself, it was just a crutch to keep controlling my intake and fueling my disordered mentality towards food. My mental block was set at 1600calories and I 'simply couldn't eat more than that.' The truth of the matter is that I could, but the food choices that I was choosing were so low calorie and so filling that it contributed to the problem along with the fact that I was just not being honest with myself. If this sounds like you, my advice is to be honest with yourself and try to drop the numbers game completely. Drop the eating formats…just eat. Don't ask yourself 'How much should I eat before lifting and how much after?'. Ask yourself what you feel for before and after. When you first start, you may feel a little lost but that is because you are learning to tap back into your intuitive ability to know what and when to eat. This intuition can be very loud and a sound guide if you listen…it just takes time.

[jordxnk]

Is there a basic template on how to just get back to normal?
Eat maintenance calories, stop cardio and just lift?

I personally feel to get back to 'normal' is more of a state of mind as opposed to just a practical solution. I'm not completely comfortable around food but i'm getting there.
But yes, eating enough and stopping excessive exercise is the right way to go.

[Aurora215]

@AddingPins

Everything you have said is spot on. Last year I learnt about cals. Found out I was eating ~1600cals. From then on in, the numbers game started. I did increase my intake up into the 2000s. But then I started to develop anxiety, probably from all of the counting in my head. 'Helping me eat more' is my exact same rationale. My mind tells me that 'intuitive eating' lead to my weight loss. And keeping tabs has helped me maintain. I know that this is all just a BS excuse to stay in control. That's probably why I like oats. It makes me feel in control. I definitely have become increasingly aware of cal content. I'm struggling to flick off the switch. It's like telling someone not to think about elephants.

[AddingPins]

@Aurora

Don't be discouraged. It's not an overnight thing. Do your best each day to challenge these habits that you feel so locked into. You know about calories now and it's not something that you can just erase from your mind. It is fine to be aware of calories but it's when they begin to rule your decision making is when it is a problem.
So just be mindful and try to listen to your body and not your head when it comes to what you 'should' be eating. It's a one day at a time sort of thing

[drumlinegirl]

I am in the same boat Aurora, and what Addingpins said really resonated with me. I still track calories and use the excuse that I'm doing it just to make sure I eat enough. The thing is, since I started gaining and eating more, I know I could easily eat way higher than maintenance without counting. I have a ravenous appetite almost constantly. So I think that's where the excuse to track comes in. I really, if I'm honest, don't want to eat too high above maintenance so I don't gain too much.

The courage to let go of something so simple as counting calories, is just not there yet. When I think big picture, I realize how simple it would be to let it go. I just can't seem to do it yet.

[drumlinegirl]

And to add on to what I posted yesterday, I weighed myself today and have lost again. Although the weight has been fluctuating almost daily. I was around 106-107 all week long. Then today I weighed 105 again. I hope I'm not losing muscle. And like I said yesterday, I am still counting calories, it just baffles me that someone my size can lose weight on 2,000 calories! It seems if I get 2,100-2,200 I maintain, and anything less, I lose. I have not gone under 1,800 a day in 7 weeks. Again, just strange that I need more than 2,000 to gain or maintain. Seems like most women my size and even bigger eat less to gain.

[deadliftbrah19]

@drumline girl the minnie maudsley method says to eat a minimum of 2500 calories, and you may need even more. When I was close to your weight at 5'6, the outpatient ED program where I had my meals had me eating 3,000-3,500 calories a day (I wasn't counting, they did the counting for me). I had to eat everything on my plate so there was no choice, plus I felt so horrid and dizzy I was willing to eat so I could function and drive again.

The Food Intake Guidelines

http://www.youreatopia.com/blog/2013...ve-eating.html

How much are you exercising?

I recently went on exercise restriction per my Dr. and ate the 2500 calories/day. I definitely gained but the vertigo and constant dizziness went away thankfully!

It all comes down to pushing past those bridges. Many times if you see a nutritionist they will do the calorie counting so that you are forced to not do it, and get out of the habit.

[drumlinegirl]

Thanks deadlift for the advice and link.

My nutritionist says I should be around 2,500 as well, but she is trying to help me stop counting calories. It's a #1 goal of mine. Just haven't done it yet. She has given me a great meal plan that includes what to eat with eat meal, such as 1-2 carbs, 4 oz protein, 1 fat, etc. I believe if I went by the meal plan only, I'd hit about 2,500 as well. So I guess I need to up it. I tend to miss a couple things in the meal plan with some of my snacks (for instance, not getting a fat or enough protein in one snack).

My workouts are pretty intense. 5 days a week lifting weights. I run on the track throughout my upper body days (3 laps around the track between lifts for a total of 2 miles) 3 days a week. My workouts tend to be 70-90 minutes each. My nutritionist has suggested doing yoga in place of one of my lifting days for stress relieve and flexibility, but I haven't been able to "let go" of one of them and figure out a good 4 day split that I like. I used to work out 6 days a week, so I'm still getting used to the idea of "only" 5 intense days.

[flackoflacko]

@deadliftbrah minnie maud is extremely controversial and imo, should not be recommended in this thread as it encourages binging, restriction of physical activity, ignoring professional medical advice, and is backed by unfounded claims. Gwenyth Olwyn, the founder is also a "patient advocate" and has no actual qualifications to be giving out the advice that she is. Just sayin.

[deadliftbrah19]

@flackoflacko I'm saying it's a good rule of thumb for those who haven't been in treatment.

I honestly had a tough time with it as I'm already clinically overweight so to eat that amount was tough. However, my vertigo and dizziness went away and I had it for months.

I disagree that it encourages binging. Restriction of physical activity is important because your body needs to rest and refeed. There's nothing wrong with that at all, temporarily.

True, yet Erik the Electric has referenced youreatopia

To be honest MinniMaud is the same that I saw in treatment. Drs had us on exercise restriction and eating 3,000+ calories a day to make up for the starvation. It's tough though as the water retention and bloating, but that seems to alleviate the symptoms for me at least. The weight gain part sucks because it's huge and literally within weeks.

[ShyGuyXS]

@drumline - Shifts in weight (either up or down) are a common thing, even at maintenance, due to fluid shifts in our bodies. I wouldn't be too concerned about that "drop".

That said, weight is not the focus right now. Changing the habits, restrictive behaviors, and working towards a healthier physical and mental state of mind are all more important.

This might be a big step ("letting go" of the numbers was indeed a challenge for me), but instead of weighing yourself, perhaps consider leaving the scale with the dietitian or have them use one and track your weight trend - without telling you?

[flackoflacko]

@Deadlift19 while I do agree that certain aspects of MM are similar to the protocols that one might follow in an IP program, the biggest difference is the oversight of a doctor. http://www.youreatopia.com/blog/2012...-bingeing.html Gwenyth is not a fan of the term "bingeing" and prefers to call it "extreme hunger" or "reactive eating", and she does in fact encourage it (she explains it as the bodies way of recovering from starvation, which is partially true, but she also says that non-physical "mental hunger" should be honored, i.e. "I'm not hungry, but I want to eat that bag of oreos, so my body must need it to recover!"). Although I agree that MM can be a temporary fix, and some of the resources on YE can be helpful, they should be read discerningly.

[drumlinegirl]

Thanks Shy. You are totally right that weight should not be my focus. Sigh. I don't know why I am struggling so much with this. My nutritionist actually wanted me to STOP weighing and that she would do blind weighing for me. But I haven't listened. I stopped weighing myself for about the first week, but went back to it. I told her about this. She still takes my stats and doesn't tell me what they are (body fat percentage especially because I get fixated on that).

So you are right, that is what I am SUPPOSED to be doing.

Felt great a few days ago on a mini vacation to the lake. Didn't think of food as much, didn't count calories AT ALL, and felt good in my bikini. Since coming back, it's like I'm just right back to it. Almost to "make up" for the eating I did while away. I don't know. Last night I went to a BBQ and didn't count calories, even enjoyed some wine, but was unable to eat any of the copious amounts of dessert that were provided. Would love to indulge in social situations like this without guilt some day.

[deadliftbrah19]

@flackoflacko Agreed that's ideal. Many in this thread don't get professional help.

I went into an IP program and had a Dr., nutritionist, therapist and psychiatrist. Thankfully I had a good health care coverage then. Not others are as fortunate. Even then, the time spent going to the appointments can be overwhelming.

I just saw those pages and they sounded almost identical to my recovery program.

The binging part is normal after a period of restriction. I just have gone through refeeding a few times, and when my body is refueled, the binging stops. I remember the IP Director said that the body is making up for the starvation. I don't binge anymore, but I certainly did right after I restricted. To stop binging, stop restricting.

drumlinegirl -- I thought of it this way, why spend all of this money on Nutritionists and Drs. if you're not following what they say, you are wasting your time and money and theirs. Somehow the cost got me to think about it, not to mention the sad statistics about living with an eating disorder and the impact on your health.

It comes down to you don't want to stop counting, look good in a bikini etc., because of the anxiety and depression that comes with stopping the behaviors. It's not the food or the counting calories, it's the underlying issues that drives the ED. When you stop behaviors, all kinds of uncomfortable thoughts and feelings come up.

[ShyGuyXS]

@drumline - "progress, not perfection" or, in another interpretation, "feedback, not failure" - A motto I've followed often throughout my recovery process.

Recovery isn't linear, and many of us have big hurdles and stopping blocks that we don't always overcome right away. Time and patience are just part of the process. i.e. the vacation - the fact alone that you didn't have to count calories on that trip is a great step! Each meal, each day where those disordered habits get replaced or when you're just able to enjoy life as you did at the BBQ are great moments to celebrate.

I've personally found journaling to be a great tool to celebrate all of the small things, the little accomplishments. Even if friends and family might not understand our perspective on these occasions, it's still worth reflecting on the fact that we did make a change, whether small or large.

It's taken many months after leaving inpatient treatment for me to get comfortable with going out to eat or eating at family barbecues and holiday events again (including eating dessert, though I never had a huge sweet tooth). There are still moments where those restrictive thoughts pop up, and it has taken me time and a lot of trust in the process to be able to resist acting on them. I still have good days where everything seems to go well and difficult days when I struggle more than usual.

[randallhill1989]

Hey guys, just wanted to share my story. I was a really active nutrition forum member at the height of my battle with whatever "eating disorder" you think I had... I caught some flak in the following thread for saying I was anorexic although I wasn't clinically diagnosed, I guess.. But in my opinion, anorexia is a mental disorder and not a specific bodyweight.

Anyways, maybe this can help some of you guys:

I tried to add pics but it says I need 50 posts or greater.. Is there another way? I feel like they're the important part.

I was 165lb and now I am 250.

6'5" tall. Started at 160lbs with an eating disorder and am now 250lbs. Here is my story:

I know that most peoples' stories here are about going from fat to fit, but mine was the other way around. I was always skinny growing up and never particularly athletic. I didn't play sports in high school (but I did karate - bow to your Sensei!). At age 18 in 2007, I joined the Marine Corps a measly 180lbs at 6'5" and had the ability to do 3 pull ups on a good day.

Shortly after arriving at my duty station I became a bit depressed at my situation, feeling out of control of the events of my life since joining the military and being isolated from my home that I had never left before. I began to attempt to gain control of my life by restricting my eating. I counted every calorie, and somehow managed to convince myself that I needed to be leaner. I didn't know this at the time, but I was starting on a path to unhealthy relationships with food and exercise.

It wasn't long before I found myself eating under 2,000 calories per day and spending hours (literally) on the exercise bike in the gym. 2,000 calories may seem like enough to sustain a person, but definitely not a 6'5 19 year old. This is starvation stuff.

Before long, I weighed between 155-160 lbs. I began to feel dizzy, weak, irritable and sad a lot of the time. I had 0 interest in friends or pursuing women. All I cared about was food. I kept it from myself and yet wanted it so badly. I binged and purged (through exercise, never puking). I woke up at 3am writhing in pain from starving and binged at an IHOP 45 minutes away. I came back on base and went to the gym and biked for three hours. I went back to my room and had a protein shake and went to sleep. It was about all I could do.

I remember one time being able to taste ammonia in my mouth, which I later read had something to do with the body breaking muscle protein down for food. I was a mess.

The night before my unit was scheduled to leave for Afghanistan, I randomly found a website listing the symptoms of anorexia and was not so shocked to find that I was experiencing almost all of them. That night, I had an epiphany and realized that I needed to change my habits. I had been reading Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength forum and couldn't wrap my mind around how all of these people just wanted to be strong and not skinny and lean like me. How could they want that? How can all of my friends and co workers be eating food and not worrying about it's nutritional or calorie content? How can they do all of that and yet still outperform me at PT?

And then I realized - I am an anorexic.

That same night, I went to a burger place on base and ordered a cheeseburger, fries and a vanilla shake (to dip the fries in, duh. PS if you don't do this, you need to try it). I sat the food down on my computer desk and told myself that I was going to eat this meal and enjoy it for what it is. It isn't a collection of macronutrients. It isn't a calorie content or a "cheat meal". This is dinner. This is what NORMAL people eat for dinner.

The fitness world is obsessed with being disgusted at the standard American diet. I was too. I judged people HARD for that ****. But that night, I just wanted to be a standard American. I learned a valuable lesson about how extremes are bad, and life is for living. We will all die one day, and I'm not going to be any more righteous on my death bed for having eaten egg whites and veggies my whole life.

Shortly after arriving in Afghanistan and going from Helmand to Kandahar province, I found myself with a decent amount of "free" time. My job wasn't particularly stressful. I worked in communications with computers on a flight line. I wasn't out patrolling every day. I had time to go to the amazing gym on base, and I committed to Starting Strength. I was done being skinny. I wanted to be a ****ing Viking. This was around the same time that 70's Big came online, and I made it my mantra.

I started my squats at 95x3x5. My max bench press was 135lbs. I could Deadlift 185. I got involved in the CrossFit.com forums. I ate my ****ing face off.

A funny thing about starvation is that after a long period of it, your brain shuts down the mechanism to make you feel full. It does this as a survival technique to get you to eat to repair the damage of starvation and return to a healthy weight. I never felt full. I would only know to stop eating because my stomach was so painfully distended. I regularly ate over 3,500 calories per day but tried my best not to count it.

I was so lucky to have a cushy job and be somewhere that I could eat and train like I wanted.. A lot of my brothers and sisters weren't so lucky, and those brave men and women had a much rougher experience in Afghan than I did.

When I got back, I weighed 190-200lbs and was much stronger, but still had so far to go.

Through transitioning from Starting Strength to a bodybuilding program, I was able to reach 225lbs bodyweight.

Just before leaving the military, I got my CrossFit level 1 trainer certification and spent some time training at the CrossFit on base, which was a parking lot with a shipping container full of equipment.

When I got out of the Marines, I landed a personal training job back here in San Diego with just my CrossFit Certification, and began training clients in a regular gym setting while going downtown to do CrossFit myself at CrossFit San Diego.

From there, I ended up on a CrossFit team here that made it to the SoCal Regional competition where I competed. I think we placed 14th overall out of the top 30 teams who qualified in the first place.

I no longer have an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with food, my gains in performance and aesthetics have never been better. I eat mostly whatever I want, just try to get enough calories in. If I don't feel like training or I have to skip it to hang out with friends or because I'm hung over, so be it. I don't get anxiety about it any more. Drop in the ocean.

I'm still a personal trainer and still on my fitness journey! I recently weighed in at 250lbs and have done powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting competitions as well as CrossFit ones. I've worked at a CrossFit gym which was an awesome experience, but am no longer really active in that community.

TL;DR - Was a skinny weakling, now i'm not

PS If anybody in the San Diego area wants to train with me, let me know! I love working out with a partner!

My current best lifts are:

Squat - 465lb (high bar Olympic style, full depth)

Deadlift - 530lb (did this the other day with no chalk or belt, think I have more in me)

Bench Press - 360lb

Snatch - 270lb

Clean and Jerk - 345lb

Push press - 300lb

Overhead squat - 315lb