Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Routine

[Jasonk282]

It's a matter of trust. Yes Kelei's routines have worked very well for many people, generally all his advice is sound and he has a great attitude about helping people. No comment here. But most of his 'followers' simply take his word for nearly everything he says, they take his advice because they trust him. If however Kelei is claiming impossible numbers and putting out conflicting background information on himself, this will build skepticism surrounding his persona, which can make one question his advice, no matter how sound it generally is.

Get my point?

I understand what you are saying. However, this thread was stickied pretty much upon it's creation so the MODs must feel Kelei, whomever he is, is doing/is legit enough to get several topics stickied at various times without much of a post history.

[Jasonk282]

Which is correct, but when you get to the point where you're claiming you created it and pretty much sharing word for word advice from somebody else's work, that's a problem. Especially when it's on a public forum and the site can be held liable for it.

So I'll wait for Smolov to sue Ogus for Ogus 7/5/3...

Seems only YOU give a fuk about this...did Kelei steal from you and you want your ball back?

[necon76]

Which is correct, but when you get to the point where you're claiming you created it and pretty much sharing word for word advice from somebody else's work, that's a problem. Especially when it's on a public forum and the site can be held liable for it.



Problem is, the guy's not giving out "solid advice" and is full of it. If you want to keep worshiping a thief and obvious liar, good on you.

What fukking worshiping? I've posted in here 10 times at best, & offered no opinion on Kelei before my last post.

But as I've read the thread I constantly see you pissing & moaning, & adding nothing of value. Clearly he's not going to respond to you, so why continue to annoy the people in here trying to be constructive?


Also, lol @ the site being liable.

[grouchyjarhead]

Fair enough. I'll unsubscribe.

For the beginner thinking this is a good routine, rather than follow Kelei's advice I'd recommend looking towards the guy he's ripping off, Steve Shaw. Much better information from a much more reliable and legitimate source, who doesn't hide who he is or constantly lie about his background. Kelei has basically posted much of Shaw's info as his own (though because he lacks the understanding of why things works, has offered poor advice about certain things) and a good chunk of the advice he has given has been parroted straight from Steve's videos.

Steve actually addresses this at 10:09.



Or you can drink the Kool-Aid like a lot of other posters here and join the nut riding train. Your choice.

And if I were affiliated with BB.com, I would certainly want to reconsider allowing these threads to exist considering if the owner of the content pushed it they could be held liable under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act since they are now aware of it.

[necon76]

^See now we're getting somewhere. Offering up something constructive for folks to consider. I didn't even know he did vids, so cheers for that.


FWIW I actually utilise my favourite aspects of both this, & Shaw's take on the program.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

I actually found Steve Shaw's version before I found this and while they are similar, they are definitely not the same. Plus Steve Shaw comes off as a complete fool when answering people's questions and Kelei comes off very intelligent and confident. So who stole from who? Maybe Steve Shaw stole from Kelei. Maybe they're just both intelligent people that used their knowledge to come up with the same basic idea. Who knows. Who cares? Do the routine you like. I've had Steve Shaw answer my questions and I've had Kelei and I would listen to Kelei in a heartbeat over Steve Shaw.

Ugh... I'm done talking about this. Carry on with your flame baiting.

[Jasonk282]

to quote Peter Griffin...

Oh my God...Who the hell cares.

[krysix]

Even if he copied that guy (that I dont think so) he just stated what he thinks is best for hyperthrophy. There is nothing new, and I didn't ever see Kelei saying this is new. It's not like he is making profit off it and even if he was there are lots of routines out there that you must pay to download or buy a book and they are ripoffs of previous routines. Routines and training methods are not patented.

I guess u think fierce 5 routine should be also deleted cause it uses series of 5 reps and linear progression, how he dares to ripp off Reg Park, Mark Rippertoe...?

[Alyion]

To be fair, Kelei has been talking about 'rep goals' since 2007 http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4921203 (post 3), and Steve Shaw mentioned in the above video he's been talking about rep goals for "5 years" (so 2010-2015, and his ebook is only 18 months old, and bulldozer training was posted in 2013)

But like people are saying - this is nothing new, its also a rip off the likes of dc/myo-reps/edt (doggcrapp being far older than 2007 and also included rep goals within a number of sets, and edt has been talked about by Charles Staley and Poliquin - who kelei has mentioned in the past - Hell even the likes of old time strongmen like Arthur Saxon didn't count sets - they just lifted, then waited until they could lift it again, and I may add, none of these people are actually selling these programs unlike Steve Shaw)

This is more akin to someone posting a routine they personally like (in this case training to failure/rest pause or hard reps) and putting their own spin on it - much the same way people constantly rewrite 5x5's and bro splits and post them here.

[parashenkka]

Im going to switch to 90sec rest times. Kelei said rest pause is only approximately 10% better and thus I feel like it's by no means worth the increased risk of injury.

[Meei2]

I've been using this routine for a couple of weeks now and really like it (right now I'm doing 40 rep per exercise). But life keep getting in the way and it will not get better for a while (with kids on the way etc) so I jump between training 4 to 6 days a week. Would it be better for me to jump to a 2-split instead for better frequency? Sometimes it feels like I rest a bit to long between days.

If so, does anyone have a good example of this? I'm sure I could put up something that works with the same concept but if anyone already have something (or Kelei said something) it would be awesome.

[bfoley]

Maybe Kelei = Steve Shaw ?

[Jasonk282]

I've been using this routine for a couple of weeks now and really like it (right now I'm doing 40 rep per exercise). But life keep getting in the way and it will not get better for a while (with kids on the way etc) so I jump between training 4 to 6 days a week. Would it be better for me to jump to a 2-split instead for better frequency? Sometimes it feels like I rest a bit to long between days.

If so, does anyone have a good example of this? I'm sure I could put up something that works with the same concept but if anyone already have something (or Kelei said something) it would be awesome.

You're just going to have to plan things out the week a head of time and allow some wiggle room when things come up. we all have to deal with life...just get in your weekly volume, be it 2,3,4,5 or 6 days a week.

[Effrum]

I've been using this routine for a couple of weeks now and really like it (right now I'm doing 40 rep per exercise). But life keep getting in the way and it will not get better for a while (with kids on the way etc) so I jump between training 4 to 6 days a week. Would it be better for me to jump to a 2-split instead for better frequency? Sometimes it feels like I rest a bit to long between days.

If so, does anyone have a good example of this? I'm sure I could put up something that works with the same concept but if anyone already have something (or Kelei said something) it would be awesome.

It's up to you, really. Like Jason said, life happens. There's nothing wrong with it.

I suppose if you wanted to be as consistent as possible with your volume, you could do a 2-day split (basically D1+D2 together for Upper, and Legs for Lower). This way you'd be guaranteed to at least hit each session 2x a week, and any more is a bonus. You can adjust your volume per exercise to fit your schedule (30 reps or 40 reps or whatever).

[Kelei]

He won't answer there either.

Perhaps actually sending a PM might be a good start. I can state a few things here for the record though:

1. My inspiration for training to/near failure originates from Vladimir Zatsiorsky, the guy who first spoke about the different methods of building strength, commonly known as the Maximal Effort (ME) method, the Dynamic Effort (DE) method and the Repetition Effort (RE) method.

2. My inspiration for counting the total number of reps per exercise rather than counting the total number of sets originates from the total tonnage systems developed by several Eastern Bloc Olympic weightlifting coaches many decades ago.

3. I'm well aware that I'm not the first person to recommend rest-pause training, in truth I don't think anyone really knows where it originated. I haven't claimed to have created anything original.

4. I'm not selling or marketing anything, I'm not attaching my name to anything, I'm merely sharing my training recommendations and offering advice.

5. This is something I do in my spare time to help others, I have no plans to make a career/living out of it, I own/manage a business entirely unrelated to the fitness industry. This is my hobby, not my livelihood.

6. I have absolutely zero concern for my reputation here, prior to posting my original routine thread I had the option of creating an entirely new forum account with a blank post history, clearly I didn't care enough to bother.

7. I never expected my original routine thread to become as popular as it did, I figured it'd reach a few pages and then die, I only continued offering advice because people continued asking for advice, when people stop asking for advice I'll take my leave of this place.

8. Everyone here is well aware of the fact that I refuse to post pics/videos of myself, I don't think showing off my physique/lifts is going to accomplish anything useful, I've got no desire to promote myself. I'm not interested in competing or setting records even if I could. I despise the current lifting scene/culture and want nothing to do with it, I train because I love to train, not as a means to an end.

If there's anything else that's bothering you just send me a PM.

[GeraltOfRivia5]

Kelei,

I did some searching on your older posts on rotator cuff problems and it seems like 90% is caused by having tight lats & pecs, and weak external rotators + rhomboids (from your knowledge). I have shoulder problems and I am currently doing those stretches and external rotator work etc. My shoulders are a little bit "hunched forward" but not that much.

Do you think that if I just continue doing it, I can bench press problem free one day? Is that what usually happens? If that is the case, that sounds amazing, I can only hope its true. I guess its very different from person to person, but what have you seen in your experience? When the shoulders are no longer "hunched forward", does that usually mean one can bench press problem free?

At the moment I am only doing cable flies for chest because thats the only thing that doesn't bother the rotator cuffs (I am standing a few steps behind the cable pulley to not "overstretch" the rotator cuff), would really like to be able to fix this some day so I can do real pressing exercises.

Thanks a lot.

[Jasonk282]

Perhaps actually sending a PM might be a good start. I can state a few things here for the record though:

1. My inspiration for training to/near failure originates from Vladimir Zatsiorsky, the guy who first spoke about the different methods of building strength, commonly known as the Maximal Effort (ME) method, the Dynamic Effort (DE) method and the Repetition Effort (RE) method.

2. My inspiration for counting the total number of reps per exercise rather than counting the total number of sets originates from the total tonnage systems developed by several Eastern Bloc Olympic weightlifting coaches many decades ago.

3. I'm well aware that I'm not the first person to recommend rest-pause training, in truth I don't think anyone really knows where it originated. I haven't claimed to have created anything original.

4. I'm not selling or marketing anything, I'm not attaching my name to anything, I'm merely sharing my training recommendations and offering advice.

5. This is something I do in my spare time to help others, I have no plans to make a career/living out of it, I own/manage a business entirely unrelated to the fitness industry. This is my hobby, not my livelihood.

6. I have absolutely zero concern for my reputation here, prior to posting my original routine thread I had the option of creating an entirely new forum account with a blank post history, clearly I didn't care enough to bother.

7. I never expected my original routine thread to become as popular as it did, I figured it'd reach a few pages and then die, I only continued offering advice because people continued asking for advice, when people stop asking for advice I'll take my leave of this place.

8. Everyone here is well aware of the fact that I refuse to post pics/videos of myself, I don't think showing off my physique/lifts is going to accomplish anything useful, I've got no desire to promote myself. I'm not interested in competing or setting records even if I could. I despise the current lifting scene/culture and want nothing to do with it, I train because I love to train, not as a means to an end.

If there's anything else that's bothering you just send me a PM.

nailed it.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

*starts the slow clap for Kelei*

[64509chvl]

*starts the slow clap for Kelei*

Continuing the clap...

With no concern of the inventor of this training, I love it! Not only because it keeps me motivated, but the thread/advice along with it has a very positive & constructive atmosphere to get involved in. Kelei has been very helpful since the thread took hold & I am thankful for that. Thank you Kelei for the support & thanks to all the regulars in here...you know who you are. Keep it on the upside fellas, this a good place to be. Ignore the negativity, just a waste of time.

[Alyion]

I was gonna post a big essay on this program (you know, for a change ) but i'm not gonna bother - this is the best program I have ever ran, that's all - take it or leave it.

[glossin]

Any downsides to running 6-10 reps on my front squats on the next cycle after this deload? I feel my form is breaking down around 11-12 reps.

[Alyion]

Any downsides to running 6-10 reps on my front squats on the next cycle after this deload? I feel my form is breaking down around 11-12 reps.

^^ If you want, you will probably have to compensate with longer rest periods though. Fwiw I know what you mean about front squats - I used to go heavier on them as well but have started to go 12-15 on them now as I don't feel my legs working until rep 12 onwards (which ill admit is bull**** but I enjoy them more)

[sirc80]

Perhaps actually sending a PM might be a good start. I can state a few things here for the record though:

1. My inspiration for training to/near failure originates from Vladimir Zatsiorsky, the guy who first spoke about the different methods of building strength, commonly known as the Maximal Effort (ME) method, the Dynamic Effort (DE) method and the Repetition Effort (RE) method.

2. My inspiration for counting the total number of reps per exercise rather than counting the total number of sets originates from the total tonnage systems developed by several Eastern Bloc Olympic weightlifting coaches many decades ago.

3. I'm well aware that I'm not the first person to recommend rest-pause training, in truth I don't think anyone really knows where it originated. I haven't claimed to have created anything original.

4. I'm not selling or marketing anything, I'm not attaching my name to anything, I'm merely sharing my training recommendations and offering advice.

5. This is something I do in my spare time to help others, I have no plans to make a career/living out of it, I own/manage a business entirely unrelated to the fitness industry. This is my hobby, not my livelihood.

6. I have absolutely zero concern for my reputation here, prior to posting my original routine thread I had the option of creating an entirely new forum account with a blank post history, clearly I didn't care enough to bother.

7. I never expected my original routine thread to become as popular as it did, I figured it'd reach a few pages and then die, I only continued offering advice because people continued asking for advice, when people stop asking for advice I'll take my leave of this place.

8. Everyone here is well aware of the fact that I refuse to post pics/videos of myself, I don't think showing off my physique/lifts is going to accomplish anything useful, I've got no desire to promote myself. I'm not interested in competing or setting records even if I could. I despise the current lifting scene/culture and want nothing to do with it, I train because I love to train, not as a means to an end.

If there's anything else that's bothering you just send me a PM.

Respect Kelei and a big and sincere THANK YOU!
This is the best routine I've tried (results and motivation). I've learned more from you than from any other training/nutrition resource. The principles behind your routines are simple but so powerful!

Also I would like to thank all you guys that post in this thread. I can wait every morning to check the posts from you and from Kelei.
Hope that this tread will have a long life. I will try to post here myself more often (this is 2nd post

Thank you again!

[kush007bond]

.....
8. Everyone here is well aware of the fact that I refuse to post pics/videos of myself, I don't think showing off my physique/lifts is going to accomplish anything useful, I've got no desire to promote myself. I'm not interested in competing or setting records even if I could. I despise the current lifting scene/culture and want nothing to do with it, I train because I love to train, not as a means to an end.

If there's anything else that's bothering you just send me a PM.

It's so awesome to see someone with such profound views. Somehow this makes me feel really good. How many people do we do know with such great knowledge/stats/physique ( presumed on the basis of lifts) and still wouldn't wanna 'show-it' off? none I guess. I want to to say lot on this very sentence, but I'll it here. winning!

[atgbrahsrs]

It's so awesome to see someone with such profound views. Somehow this makes me feel really good. How many people do we do know with such great knowledge/stats/physique ( presumed on the basis of lifts) and still wouldn't wanna 'show-it' off? none I guess. I want to to say lot on this very sentence, but I'll it here. winning!

it's very hard to find someone who has not changed his views on some stuff without trying to sell you something as the end all be all.

[69cam]

Perhaps actually sending a PM might be a good start. I can state a few things here for the record though:

1. My inspiration for training to/near failure originates from Vladimir Zatsiorsky, the guy who first spoke about the different methods of building strength, commonly known as the Maximal Effort (ME) method, the Dynamic Effort (DE) method and the Repetition Effort (RE) method.

2. My inspiration for counting the total number of reps per exercise rather than counting the total number of sets originates from the total tonnage systems developed by several Eastern Bloc Olympic weightlifting coaches many decades ago.

3. I'm well aware that I'm not the first person to recommend rest-pause training, in truth I don't think anyone really knows where it originated. I haven't claimed to have created anything original.

4. I'm not selling or marketing anything, I'm not attaching my name to anything, I'm merely sharing my training recommendations and offering advice.

5. This is something I do in my spare time to help others, I have no plans to make a career/living out of it, I own/manage a business entirely unrelated to the fitness industry. This is my hobby, not my livelihood.

6. I have absolutely zero concern for my reputation here, prior to posting my original routine thread I had the option of creating an entirely new forum account with a blank post history, clearly I didn't care enough to bother.

7. I never expected my original routine thread to become as popular as it did, I figured it'd reach a few pages and then die, I only continued offering advice because people continued asking for advice, when people stop asking for advice I'll take my leave of this place.

8. Everyone here is well aware of the fact that I refuse to post pics/videos of myself, I don't think showing off my physique/lifts is going to accomplish anything useful, I've got no desire to promote myself. I'm not interested in competing or setting records even if I could. I despise the current lifting scene/culture and want nothing to do with it, I train because I love to train, not as a means to an end.

If there's anything else that's bothering you just send me a PM.

Enough said...

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Kelei could be a scrawny dude and I still wouldn't care. He's knowledgeable as fuk and that is all that matters to me.

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On another note... someone remind me why we aren't working in the 12-15 rep range? I really enjoy this rep range. I don't know why. Some days I just want to get in the gym and rep out 12-15 on every exercise and then follow up with 6-8 reps rest-pause style. Any of you guys do that occasionally?

[Jasonk282]

Kelei could be a scrawny dude and I still wouldn't care. He's knowledgeable as fuk and that is all that matters to me.

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On another note... someone remind me why we aren't working in the 12-15 rep range? I really enjoy this rep range. I don't know why. Some days I just want to get in the gym and rep out 12-15 on every exercise and then follow up with 6-8 reps rest-pause style. Any of you guys do that occasionally?

Dunno, I still am. Hell I've been getting up to 20 reps on the first set and then still going for all my volume.

today was

hack squats 160*20 12 10
weighted sissy squats 25*12 10 8 8 6
SGDL partials 155*15 15 12
calf raises 155*20 20 15 15 20

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Dunno, I still am. Hell I've been getting up to 20 reps on the first set and then still going for all my volume.

today was

hack squats 160*20 12 10
weighted sissy squats 25*12 10 8 8 6
SGDL partials 155*15 15 12
calf raises 155*20 20 15 15 20

Damn. That 20 rep hack squat has to be killer.

[Jasonk282]

Damn. That 20 rep hack squat has to be killer.

Yeah it's pretty rough. They're barbell hack squats old school style, with my heels on a 35 lb plate to really hammer the quads.

The sissy squats afterwards though are the real killer...