Many people may scoff at my opinion, but this is what I had to do and i'm in my 30's as well.
Cut out all fruits, breads, dairy, and processed protein (whey powders and bars). Whey(dairy) protein can convert to sugars and generally are inferior to natural animal proteins from meats. The most I will do is two 30 gram shakes a day, but only on leg day and that's probably too much.
Replace your carbohydrates with fats and keep protein at your 150+ grams the same. Fats are essential to the body, and they have minimal effect on insulin levels/metabolism, but they're essential for hormone production and at our age that's very important. If you're worried about no energy from lack of carbohydrates then just realize you have enough energy stored in your fat cells, and just push through it. Fats stores are the energy source you want to use, and not the energy you consume through food. You're not bulking so you don't need as many carbohydrates. Try to keep carb count under 75 grams a day.
Unhealthy fats should involve all vegetable fats, hydrogenated fats, partially hydrogenated fats.(soy bean, canola, corn oils, etc...)
Healthy Fats should involve Saturated fats mono-saturated fats....generally animal fats along with Olive and coconut Oils.
And just to let you know where i'm coming from....i used to eat the Cliff protein bars and slam 180 grams worth of ON Protein everyday and eat a bowl of broccoli with fish every day...i didn't lose an inch. Then I cut out the carbs and processed proteins and increased fats through eggs and red meat and started seeing changes.
I hope this helps, but it just depends on what you do.
P.S.- I also want to add that I was doing a full body high volume workout routine 6 days a week on this exact diet out of Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia similar to the programs you can fin here on BB.com
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04-07-2015, 07:27 AM #61
- Join Date: Mar 2015
- Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, United States
- Age: 40
- Posts: 34
- Rep Power: 0
Last edited by natebarbell; 04-07-2015 at 07:40 AM.
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04-07-2015, 11:48 AM #62
Thank you!
I woke up this morning and told myself I was done lifting. I told myself im finished with it. But I came to see if anyone else responded and your post makes me want to keep going.
My carbs are already fairly low but I will take your advice and try to keep it under 75.
Still tho, i really dont understand whats wrong w me. so frustrating. its really astounding when i think about how little ive gained despite my efforts. anyways......
thanks
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04-07-2015, 11:54 AM #63
- Join Date: Feb 2013
- Location: New York, New York, United States
- Age: 43
- Posts: 16,991
- Rep Power: 91766
You know what's wrong? Myself and others have requested for you to post your food log (a few days worth) along with your training layout and possibly your daily activities as well, you have failed to do so and continue to seek out some sort of magic formula that will give you results. How's anybody supposed to give you advice that is even remotely helpful if we know essentially nothing about you apart from the very very very very little you've told us about yourself.
I've even asked TWICE in this thread for you to explain how you have come to the bf % you have come to (as in, what is that % based off of? calipers? electronic scale? body pod? etc.)
I'm actually quite shocked that people are still giving you what boils down to nutritional plans based off of... essentially no details whatsoever. That is likely to just screw you up even more because we don't know how you will interpret and implement the information, I mean, you have completely failed to provide even basic information so that people can help you.
Sounds harsh but just being honest and trying to not lead you into a bunch of random experiments that has a good likelihood of messing you up.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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04-07-2015, 12:23 PM #64
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04-07-2015, 12:36 PM #65
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04-07-2015, 12:38 PM #66
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04-07-2015, 01:30 PM #67
- Join Date: Oct 2008
- Location: Wisconsin, United States
- Posts: 14,576
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It can be frustrating getting stuck when you're training hard.
He's probably looking for a clear cut answer that fits in with what he's already theorizing, but that's probably not going to happen.
OP, one sure fire way to fail is to give up.
Second piece of useless advice I have is to tell you the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time. And I don't mean the insanity workout that you've seen on TV. Don't do that. Whatever you do.
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04-07-2015, 01:35 PM #68
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Doesn't sound like the OP knows what he's doing so we can't even tell him if what he is doing is the problem or not. Essentially we can't comment on anything other than we don't have anywhere near the amount of information needed to give even the most basic of advice. Lulz.
We literally don't even know what his bf % is since he never explained how he came to the % he came to. So we don't even know if he's stalling because he's at the point where there's not much left to cut so manipulating things gets harder. All we know really is that the OP doesn't like how the reflection in the mirror looks, but that's such a subjective measure to begin with.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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04-07-2015, 01:49 PM #69
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04-07-2015, 02:22 PM #70
In response to the above:
I got tested at a gym about 6 weeks ago with calipers and they told me that my BF was 19% (19.something to be exact but i don't recall the exact number).
As far as my diet, I do not eat the same meals daily. However, I generally eat 4 meals a day and I weigh everything with a digital scale that I have. I track those calories as I proceed throughout the day. At the end of the day, I hit right around 1gram protein per lb of bodyweight, roughly 60 grams of fat, and the remainder in carbohydrates which turns out to about 150 grams.
I don't prep and prepare my foods for the day or week or month in advance. Should I? Prob not. Would it be ideal? Yes. But I don't think that NOT doing that is what is making me not lose weight given the nunmbers and ratios i identified above.
As far as lifting:
I lift every other day. Chest/triceps, back/biceps, legs/shoulders. I lift for 60-75 minutes (usually 75).
Part of the reason I did not post my eating habits earlier is because I think there is a tendency for some people on this forum to always advocate more. You dont prepare your food in advance? fail. You dont eat the same meals everyday? fail. You dont keep your workouts under an hour? fail. You only workout everyother day? fail. You don't lift heavier/lighter/more resp/less reps? fail. If doing one or the other of any of these things are REALLY what will make the difference, then I give up.
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04-07-2015, 03:33 PM #71
- Join Date: Feb 2013
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We need to know what you're eating so that we can figure out if it's bad nutrition tracking.
We need to know what your routine is in the gym to understand if your training has deficiencies thus not having progress.
So if the above two are in check, then I would really scale your macros up slowly until you start gaining some weight. From there, scale it down a little so that you're at maintenance levels and continue to eat at that level for awhile to readjust your metabolism. After that, start cutting back calories a little bit so that you can get the cutting started again.
Jumping on a completely different diet (such as the extremely carb restricted one a poster above suggested) may work but may not be the best idea if the fundamental problem is possibly you having an off kilter metabolism.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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04-07-2015, 04:59 PM #72
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04-07-2015, 05:31 PM #73
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04-07-2015, 06:05 PM #74
Seems like the classic case of the sympathetic nervous system affecting the parasympathetic nervous system, a stress response. (for clarification you can look into Ben Fuchs, a compounding pharmacist)
Essentially, overall you are not meeting your optimal nutrient intake. Exercise in these cases will do little to nothing, since it is a bodily response to stress.
Although I can't post links, you can look into "Triage theory" by Bruce N. Ames, a biochemist at Berkeley. It postulates that nutrient deficiencies can cause x, y and z, "That nature may have developed such a system is logically consistent with an important evolutionary theory that natural selection favors short term survival [the storing of fat] for reproduction over long term health"
The above links [if I could post them] would give you the gist of how the SNS/PSNS can be affected due to nutrient deficiencies, although Ames doesn't make the connection, the connection is there when looking for an explanation. It's a bodily defense mechanism that will "tl;dr" cause your body to hold onto the fat. Fat/calories by definition = energy. Your body will not let go of it until your survival instincts are able to shut off. (this bodily instinct being, "store fat to survive," even though you aren't in a life threatening situation)
tl;dr- Triage theory, SNS/PSNS, even potentially your adrenal glands. (Dr. Eric Berg has a clinic in which he aids people that he dubs "adrenal body types," those who exercise and can't lose weight -- again, dealing with stress and bodily response to it)
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04-07-2015, 06:31 PM #75
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04-07-2015, 07:35 PM #76
I am reading on the subject right now. Perhaps I should take a good multi vitamin and minerals. Perhaps start juicing? (i actually did some juicing years ago and i recall myself losing weight - i wasnt lifting or anything).
I will also admit that I do not get veggies and that I have a ton of stress - I am an addict with severe depression.
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04-07-2015, 07:40 PM #77
- Join Date: Sep 2013
- Location: Portland, Oregon, United States
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04-07-2015, 07:50 PM #78
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04-07-2015, 08:04 PM #79
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04-07-2015, 09:28 PM #80
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04-07-2015, 09:38 PM #81
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04-07-2015, 11:13 PM #82
I am going to pick up a juicer tomorrow and try to make a conscious effort to take in more vitamins and minerals.
I just ate some flax seed, banana, blueberries, carrots, pineapple, pistachios, and carrots and a serving of magnesium citrate.
I dont know if juicing will make a difference. But we will see i guess.
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04-07-2015, 11:18 PM #83
Surprised to still see people talk about "metabolic damage"...
He's only been cutting for 5 weeks and he hasn't seen the scale move in 10 days...big deal. My guess: water fluctuations on top of a low TDEE (probably due to a sedentary lifestyle). Wait another week at 1800 calories and see what happens and if nothing does, drop calories further or increase activity.
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04-07-2015, 11:20 PM #84
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04-07-2015, 11:34 PM #85
Then it's most likely what I said...water fluctuations and you have a low TDEE. My TDEE is low because I'm practically sitting down all day besides when I'm at the gym. Add some type of cardio after your workout for a couple weeks and then come back to us and tell us you're if you still only lost 1lb. If you haven't lost anymore weight, you're doing something wrong plain and simple.
Even if you had thyroid issues, it slows metabolism a bit but not to the point that it STOPS weight loss. Is there anyone in this world that can starve themselves and not lose weight, even if they have the worst hypothyroidism they can possibly get? Think about it.
Besides all that...how do you measure your food exactly (not sure if you mentioned it...I'm half asleep right now)? Damn near everyone I know either forgets to measure "little things" or they don't even do it right.
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04-08-2015, 12:29 AM #86
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04-08-2015, 01:10 AM #87
Ahh, then in your case, yes, part of your weight loss issues may be directly tied to stress and how it effects your sympathetic + parasympathetic nervous system. Your parasympathetic nervous system deals with digestion (among other things), and it is your sympathetic nervous system which can essentially inhibit many of its functions. When you begin to inhibit your digestion, you may find it difficult for your body to utilize what you are giving it.
Many the times the inhibition of digestion and other roles of these nervous systems are symptoms of an underlying issue. Your underlying issue seems to be stress. People should never downplay stress, ever. Like Dr. Eric Berg, a great amount of his patients are "stress body types" (adrenal body types, the adrenals can sometimes be looked at as the stress gland in some cases).
Ex: Those who don't handle stress well may tax their adrenals more than others. If you don't address your stress, over time the adrenals become very worn out. People might notice a lack of energy, their core strength starts to diminish, a sluggish feeling and inevitably, they gain weight. Why? Cortisol. Like all hormones in the human body, they must be kept in balance, and when they are out of balance they can wreak havoc on the human body. (women that go through menopause is a good of how hormones play a massive role in our bodies)
This is where weight comes into play. As a bodily defense mechanism, your body will store fat around the adrenals (and other vital organs that this region encompasses, kidneys, the mid-section), this is why you will sometimes notice people carrying weight more in the mid-section. They will exercise and exercise and exercise, they'll lose weight everywhere else, but not the mid-section. It can possibly be an adrenal issue, at least a contributing factor, but the underlying issue more times than not is stress. However, like with all weight loss/gain cases, it's debatable, and there are a myriad of factors.
I suggest you do start getting your veggies. Like you had mentioned, a juicer. I recommend something like the Champion Juicer (a bit older, but there are many and they're reliable and you could potentially find a used one for a bit cheaper, you don't need the "latest and greatest" $500 juicer tbh).
As for a multi, yes, I highly suggest a multi. Personally, I like Source Natural's Life Force (not the men's, just the normal Life Force Multi). In Lyle MacWilliam's publication, a biochemist btw, called "Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements" over a thousand products (Multis) are tested for absorption/bioavailability. Source Natural has been around for decades and their multi has been one of the highest rated in North America for over a decade. A few other multi's do contend with it in terms of absorption + bioavailability, however, compared to others such as BHS or Douglas Laboratories (two others of similar rating) is that the serving size is substantially less. 2 tablets of SN's multi = 8 of Douglas Labs or 7 of BHS'. Even then, SN's still comes out ahead with RDA's even when only taking two tablets.
Either way, i'd suggest going with a multi along the lines of SN's, or other brands that have incorporated very stringent manufacturing/quality standards. No offense to the many multi's that are promoted on this site, but i'd say an overwhelming majority of the multi's promoted here don't hold a candle to SN and a very very small handful of others.
If anything is confusing i'll gladly clarify.
E: Something of note. To somewhat condense this. At the very basic level, the human body cares only about one thing, survival. It doesn't recognize or care that you're weight lifting or trying to lose weight. The human body itself cares about one thing and one thing only, survival, and if proper nutrient intake is not met, the body will not give up things such as fats, as it is a survival mechanism to hold onto these things.
Look at it this way. Can someone who is overweight be malnourished? Yes. Can someone such as a Kenyan runner be getting proper nutrient intake? Indeed they can, and are. People will claim, "well that's their body type!" There's some amount of truth to that, but generally, it comes down to whether you have a high caloric intake and low nutrient intake, or a high nutrient intake and low caloric intake.
To then recap, what I just stated in my edited portion, that is then when the Triage theory comes into play, and the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system. Hope it makes somewhat sense!Last edited by InoKaze; 04-08-2015 at 01:19 AM.
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04-08-2015, 02:43 AM #88
- Join Date: Jan 2015
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
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Hi feelthetpump.
The problems should be many. Have you tried with HIIT training ? It gives a good shock to your metabolism if it's done properly and can help you maybe lose a bit of fat. You can introduce a couple of session a week (not more then 15minutes, if you do it well are enough). Better if you do it in your days off lift training, anyway you can still do it at the end of it. The thing taht you count everything is ok but should be that you have some wrong food or wrong meals in your plan that doesn't allow you to lose the weight you want to lose.
Burn 24 I don't really know what is but there are just a few legal substances that can help you lose weight, all the others are bull**** and scams. And one is simply caffeine.
Should you also have some thyroid problems or your metabolism get stucked because it get used to your training and nutrition plan.
PS: I just read now that you have lot of stress. Before thinking about juicing, that for me is gonna be the last last last last resource if nothing else works well and if you are concerned and ready to it, try to rest for some days, even a week and relax yourself as much as you can. Your cortisol levels are probably always higher than normal, and this make the food absorbing process and the fat loss really hard , even impossible sometimes.Personal Trainer & Sport Nutritionist Online.
If you want me to coach you just message me here or on ********.
"Instead of thinkin about waisting your money on supplements, think about if your diet and training are on point. 95% of time, they are not".
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04-08-2015, 06:23 AM #89
- Join Date: Feb 2013
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OP clearly wants something that sounds fancy and magical, plain and simple. Straight forward advice that is likely to be applicable the OP is clearly completely ignoring.
Inb4 someone gives him a cleanse/detox protocol and the OP jumps on it.Completed Logs & Reviews:
Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053
"Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
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04-08-2015, 07:38 AM #90
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