Cutler didn't "win" the Olympia according to most experts... interesting

[coolness]

Yes, he did win, nobody is contesting that. We all agree.

Exactly. So how WOULDN'T he have won? It's all very strange... he's a pro, and none of you are pros, or Ronnie Coleman saying how he lost not Jay Cutler didn't win. So, in my opinion, this is all worthless stuff, and I'm leaving!

(( also... yes they are. Look here, the title-

Cutler didn't "win" the Olympia according to most experts... interesting

So... ))

[Hardcore Natural]

Exactly. So how WOULDN'T he have won? It's all very strange... he's a pro, and none of you are pros, or Ronnie Coleman saying how he lost not Jay Cutler didn't win. So, in my opinion, this is all worthless stuff, and I'm leaving!

(( also... yes they are. Look here, the title-

Cutler didn't "win" the Olympia according to most experts... interesting

So... ))

Well yes, technically he won and he showed up in better condition than Ronnie that day, so yes, he deserved it. This is evident and everyone can see this...just go look at the pics.

I think what most are saying here is that even though Jay showed up better than Ronnie that night, that some feel that Ronnie is still the better built bodybuilder who simply came in off his mark that night (obviously that is what happened...he did fuuck up on his conditioning). Either way though, yes, Jay deserved the win and he's Mr O for a year.

Next year hopefully Ron comes in fully conditioned and then we'll have ourselves a REAL contest! We'll then see who is the better bodybuilder!

[TheSheepdog]

Well... not many people have won the Mr. Olympia title, only 11, and he's one of them. All in all, he won it, and it doesn't matter how BAD anyone else was, he was better than all the others, and won. So as far as that goes, not many if you guys currently posting in the forums, and even the pros on this site, have ever won the Mr. Olympia Pro Male contest, so he DID win in the competition, and regardless of anything, or how you feel about him, he won, and you didn't, and that's that. Here are the Pro's that have won the Mr. Olympia title-

Lee Haney
Ronnie Coleman
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Dorian Yates
Sergio Oliva
Frank Zane
Larry Scott
Franco Columbu
Chris Dickerson
Samir Bannout
Jay Cutler

unless these people are on some account that's NOT a Pro account... then nobody here can honestly say that they have won the Mr.olympia contest. Ever. Period. So, there you go!

uh, how many of us have even attempted to go pro, how many of us have won an nfl mvp or and nba championship, how many of us want to go pro or take roids or sacrifice for an ifbb pro card, no many,
but we have a right as FANS to talk about the physiques, or the performance of are favorite athletes, the IFBB loves for us to argue who has the best physiques, they love for us to argue over who is the better bodybuilder and why Jay won and Ronnie lost, because it keeps interest in their sport.

Now to me Jay was the winner, because personally his physique was more pleasing then Ronnies (which like the judging is very subjective), but it doesnt take away the fact that
1.Jay is now in the same catergory as Samir, Dickerson, and Columbo, and i'm wondering is he going to take a huge gamble with his physique and try to do a drastic change to widen the slight gap he has over the other athletes like the gap Coleman had
2.Yes, Ronnie has owned Jay for 6 years and is argumentively the greatest IFBB bodybuilder of all-time, not because he won the Olympia 8 straight times, but because he has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders at there best, if there was a hall of fame of bodybuilding, Ronnie owned a third of the athletes...Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Cutler, Jackson, etc etc.
3.Jay's time is now and i dont think that ronnie is going to recover from this lost mainly because of his age, unless he loses his belly and attempts to go back to the 98 or 01 asc coleman.

[Hardcore Natural]

uh, how many of us have even attempted to go pro, how many of us have won an nfl mvp or and nba championship, how many of us want to go pro or take roids or sacrifice for an ifbb pro card, no many,
but we have a right as FANS to talk about the physiques, or the performance of are favorite athletes, the IFBB loves for us to argue who has the best physiques, they love for us to argue over who is the better bodybuilder and why Jay won and Ronnie lost, because it keeps interest in their sport.

Now to me Jay was the winner, because personally his physique was more pleasing then Ronnies (which like the juding is very subjective), but it doesnt take away the fact that
1.Jay is now in the same catergory as Samir, Dickerson, and Columbo, and i'm wondering is he going to take a huge gamble with his physique and try to do a drastic change to widen the slight gap he has over the other athletes
2.Yes, Ronnie has owned Jay for 6 years and is argumentively the greatest IFBB bodybuilder of all-time, not because he won the Olympia 8 straight times, but because he has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders at there best, if there was a hall of fame of bodybuilding, Ronnie owned a third of the athletes...Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Cutler, Jackson, etc etc.
3.Jay's time is now and i dont think that ronnie is going to recover from this lost mainly because of his age, unless he loses his belly and attempts to go back to the 98 or 01 asc coleman.

Nice post, I agree.

[Clean]

uh, how many of us have even attempted to go pro, how many of us have won an nfl mvp or and nba championship, how many of us want to go pro or take roids or sacrifice for an ifbb pro card, no many

A lot of people have tried to and are going pro right now. This is a bodybuilding website, but not every one of these people are bodybuilders, so you cannot use this forum as an excuse because most of the people on here are either. There are plenty of people out there right now who are trying to be pro bodybuilders that this site doesn't even. Yes, you can criticise and praise the pros all you want which is what this site is for, but demeaning a pro's abilities which haven't even been fully shown yet shows ignorance.

Now to me Jay was the winner, because personally his physique was more pleasing then Ronnies (which like the judging is very subjective), but it doesnt take away the fact that
1.Jay is now in the same catergory as Samir, Dickerson, and Columbo, and i'm wondering is he going to take a huge gamble with his physique and try to do a drastic change to widen the slight gap he has over the other athletes like the gap Coleman had

How about putting him in the catergory of overall Olympia winners instead? Jay being in the same catergory of those guys is BS because for 1, you guys talk more about him then any of them, which shows that he is getting recognition(positive or negative) and those guys you listed didn't go against argueably(even you say so) the greatest bodybuilder in the history of bodybuilding and beat him.

O yea, and if you don't know already, Columbu won two, so your argument doesn't make sense. He also won them with the farthest margin between them of any IFBB pro, which makes him something special.

2.Yes, Ronnie has owned Jay for 6 years and is argumentively the greatest IFBB bodybuilder of all-time, not because he won the Olympia 8 straight times, but because he has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders at there best, if there was a hall of fame of bodybuilding, Ronnie owned a third of the athletes...Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Cutler, Jackson, etc etc.

Yada, yada, yada, etc. etc. etc. Yea, we all know about Ronnie's legacy, but how many of those people you listed have actually beat him and owned him in the Olympia, if only once? One. Cutler, which is more then enough for him.

[TheSheepdog]

A lot of people have tried to and are going pro right now. This is a bodybuilding website, but not every one of these people are bodybuilders, so you cannot use this forum as an excuse because most of the people on here are either. There are plenty of people out there right now who are trying to be pro bodybuilders that this site doesn't even. Yes, you can criticise and praise the pros all you want which is what this site is for, but demeaning a pro's abilities which haven't even been fully shown yet shows ignorance.





How about putting him in the catergory of overall Olympia winners instead? Jay being in the same catergory of those guys is BS because for 1, you guys talk more about him then any of them, which shows that he is getting recognition(positive or negative) and those guys you listed didn't go against argueably(even you say so) the greatest bodybuilder in the history of bodybuilding and beat him.

O yea, and if you don't know already, Columbu won two, so your argument doesn't make sense. He also won them with the farthest margin between them of any IFBB pro, which makes him something special.




Yada, yada, yada, etc. etc. etc. Yea, we all know about Ronnie's legacy, but how many of those people you listed have actually beat him and owned him in the Olympia, if only once? One. Cutler, which is more then enough for him.

dude, why is it that everytime i make a post, you have to argue, my post was as unbias as you can get and you still had a problem with it.

so the fuk what if columbo won two, you know were im getting at, the only reason why were talking about Jay now and not Samir is because...drumroll please...he just won the fuking olympia, were also talking more about Jay then Arnold or any other bodybuilder, so what is your point? What i was getting at (which how i dont see wasnt so fuking obvious), is that Jay has won one O' and right now he is in the catergory of the One O' winners, until he can prove otherwise, but to make you happy...JAY IS IN THE CATEGORY OF OLYMPIA WINNERS AND WILL WIN UNTIL HE RETIRES!!!!, is that what you want everyone to say, because we all can look into the future and see that right? Dude, no one knows what tommorow holds, he might win 10 straight or for some strange reason he might finish out of the top 5, maybe he tears a bicep or maybe his waist gets even tighter, my point is no one knows

and yes they all have owned Ronnie in the O'....but none of them was fuking Mr.O, now were they? What i was stating is that Ronnie as champion has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders ever at there best, why is that even argumentative or a problem for you, this is a fact, not just a random statement, but you seem to have a problem with that!....do you have that much Jay love that others cant say good things about Coleman? Im not even a Jay fan but i gave him his props.

and for your first paragraph, what in the hell are you talking about?
Who is demeaning a pro's abilities, and how can you demeaned the abilities if they havent been shown yet, he or they or whoever might not even possess those abilities?

[TheSheepdog]

but anyway im going to sleep, got work tommorow, got bad guys to nab

[Vinex]

got bad guys to nab

haha

[AlphaMaleLilJay]

Theres only one rule in Team Cutler...Don't talk about Team Cutler.

LOL....

[GIDE0N]

And the point about age is what?

And since the Arnold is held begining of the year 2001 - 2007 is almost 6 years so it is closer then 6 years then to 5 who the hell is getting technical.

The point about age is that Cutler has achieved what Ronnie did about 4 years earlier...and did so with Ronnie in the contest too.

And it is my understanding that the O was held in October...which is hardly near the beginning of the year.

[Guardian]

The point about age is that Cutler has achieved what Ronnie did about 4 years earlier...and did so with Ronnie in the contest too.

And it is my understanding that the O was held in October...which is hardly near the beginning of the year.

Even the past 5 years Cutler has achived more in terms of age comparison.

[RickRoss]

Jay turned pro at what 22,23 and it took him 10 years to be Mr.O. Ronnie turned pro at 28 and became Mr.O in 6 years.

[Hardcore Natural]

The point about age is that Cutler has achieved what Ronnie did about 4 years earlier...

Which only makes what Ronnie has done even more unbelievable! The dude's a genetic freak!!!

[Guardian]

Which only makes what Ronnie has done even more unbelievable! The dude's a genetic freak!!!

I dont see the logic, at least not in regards to his post...

[coldfusion71]

Even the past 5 years Cutler has achived more in terms of age comparison.

ronnie was 34 when he won the olympia in 98, cutler is 33. why are people continually saying namely you, that the age difference is drastic, when that is anything but the case.

[Guardian]

ronnie was 34 when he won the olympia in 98, cutler is 33. why are people continually saying namely you, that the age difference is drastic, when that is anything but the case.

I was not the one that said 4 years, that was someone else, check prior posts.

[GIDE0N]

I was not the one that said 4 years, that was someone else, check prior posts.

Oh that was my bad...I read an earlier post that threw out Jay's age and Ronnie's age in 01' and got that mixed up.

Still...Jay beat Ronnie...and won the Olympia a year before he did.

[iroczinoz]

The point about age is that Cutler has achieved what Ronnie did about 4 years earlier...and did so with Ronnie in the contest too.

And it is my understanding that the O was held in October...which is hardly near the beginning of the year.

Learn to read dude. The picture that was posted was from the Arnold Classic held in 2001 begining of the year. Which would make it almost 6 years to this date Ronnie had that physique. WTF are you smoking? Why you talking about the Olympia?

To simplify it for you even more the picture of Ronnie in this thread is almost 6 years old. Not 4 not 5. get it now.

[iroczinoz]

Even the past 5 years Cutler has achived more in terms of age comparison.

Yeah he has lets see if he gets those 8 olympias in the next 7 years to enable him to be spoken of as the Great Ron Coleman. Currently all you are doing is saying how wonderful Jay is cause he beat ronnie by 1 year at winning the Olympia.

What is sad that Ronnie had a better physique when he won his first Olympia and that was 9 years ago. So it is fair to say that Ronnie brought in a package 9 years ago that would have been Jay at the 2006 Olympia. So instead of bodybuilding going forward it has taken 1 step back i believe.

Keep posting those pictures up of Ronnie and try and discredit him since you don't have any respect for the man.

[Clean]

dude, why is it that everytime i make a post, you have to argue, my post was as unbias as you can get and you still had a problem with it.

LOL, your post was unbiased? I don't want to argue either, but the post was just full of one sided thoughts everywhere.

[/Quote]so the fuk what if columbo won two, you know were im getting at, the only reason why were talking about Jay now and not Samir is because...drumroll please...he just won the fuking olympia, were also talking more about Jay then Arnold or any other bodybuilder, so what is your point? What i was getting at (which how i dont see wasnt so fuking obvious), is that Jay has won one O' and right now he is in the catergory of the One O' winners, until he can prove otherwise, but to make you happy...JAY IS IN THE CATEGORY OF OLYMPIA WINNERS AND WILL WIN UNTIL HE RETIRES!!!!, is that what you want everyone to say, because we all can look into the future and see that right? Dude, no one knows what tommorow holds, he might win 10 straight or for some strange reason he might finish out of the top 5, maybe he tears a bicep or maybe his waist gets even tighter, my point is no one knows[/Quote]

Jay is much different from them though. He was considered to be the winner on several times and was also the only guy to come in second consecutively. But you try and demean him by putting him in a "1 Olympia win" group, but each Olympia should be considered unique for what they brought, had, and presence. Do people put Haney in the same league as Ronnie? No, they usually just say Ronnie is flat out the best even though he did lose which Haney didn't.

[/Quote]and yes they all have owned Ronnie in the O'....but none of them was fuking Mr.O, now were they? What i was stating is that Ronnie as champion has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders ever at there best, why is that even argumentative or a problem for you, this is a fact, not just a random statement, but you seem to have a problem with that!....do you have that much Jay love that others cant say good things about Coleman? Im not even a Jay fan but i gave him his props.[/Quote]

Yes, Ronnie has beat some of the best in the Olympia, but he was beat, if only one time by someone, which shows that they had something that stood out that year and the margin of points wasn't even close. Why can't you acknowledge that instead of trying to put Jay in some "1 Olympia" group instead of at the top or not even in the same sentence as Kevin or Shawn? He is a much better bodybuilder then them if you go by the wins.

and for your first paragraph, what in the hell are you talking about?
Who is demeaning a pro's abilities, and how can you demeaned the abilities if they havent been shown yet, he or they or whoever might not even possess those abilities?

Isn't the Mr. Olympia contest a judge of each pros physique and abilities on stage and showing their hardwork? And Jay won didn't he? Nuff said.

[Clean]

ronnie was 34 when he won the olympia in 98, cutler is 33. why are people continually saying namely you, that the age difference is drastic, when that is anything but the case.

He is saying that because Jay did way better in his early Olympia's then Ronnie. Ronnie took years just to get to first and we all know he kept placing bad in the Olympia in the 90s until 98. Jay placed top 5 in all his Olympia's except his first I think.

[Guardian]

Yeah he has lets see if he gets those 8 olympias in the next 7 years to enable him to be spoken of as the Great Ron Coleman. Currently all you are doing is saying how wonderful Jay is cause he beat ronnie by 1 year at winning the Olympia.

What is sad that Ronnie had a better physique when he won his first Olympia and that was 9 years ago. So it is fair to say that Ronnie brought in a package 9 years ago that would have been Jay at the 2006 Olympia. So instead of bodybuilding going forward it has taken 1 step back i believe.

Keep posting those pictures up of Ronnie and try and discredit him since you don't have any respect for the man.

Flex Wheeler only lost by 3 points in 1998 and has futile width in comparison to Cutler. I dont think Cutler would have lost in the situation you described. Cutlers width for his height dwarves all others to the point small defiiciencies in his conditioning can be overlooked.

[TheSheepdog]

LOL, your post was unbiased? I don't want to argue either, but the post was just full of one sided thoughts everywhere.

so the fuk what if columbo won two, you know were im getting at, the only reason why were talking about Jay now and not Samir is because...drumroll please...he just won the fuking olympia, were also talking more about Jay then Arnold or any other bodybuilder, so what is your point? What i was getting at (which how i dont see wasnt so fuking obvious), is that Jay has won one O' and right now he is in the catergory of the One O' winners, until he can prove otherwise, but to make you happy...JAY IS IN THE CATEGORY OF OLYMPIA WINNERS AND WILL WIN UNTIL HE RETIRES!!!!, is that what you want everyone to say, because we all can look into the future and see that right? Dude, no one knows what tommorow holds, he might win 10 straight or for some strange reason he might finish out of the top 5, maybe he tears a bicep or maybe his waist gets even tighter, my point is no one knows[/Quote]

Jay is much different from them though. He was considered to be the winner on several times and was also the only guy to come in second consecutively. But you try and demean him by putting him in a "1 Olympia win" group, but each Olympia should be considered unique for what they brought, had, and presence. Do people put Haney in the same league as Ronnie? No, they usually just say Ronnie is flat out the best even though he did lose which Haney didn't.

[/Quote]and yes they all have owned Ronnie in the O'....but none of them was fuking Mr.O, now were they? What i was stating is that Ronnie as champion has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders ever at there best, why is that even argumentative or a problem for you, this is a fact, not just a random statement, but you seem to have a problem with that!....do you have that much Jay love that others cant say good things about Coleman? Im not even a Jay fan but i gave him his props.[/Quote]

Yes, Ronnie has beat some of the best in the Olympia, but he was beat, if only one time by someone, which shows that they had something that stood out that year and the margin of points wasn't even close. Why can't you acknowledge that instead of trying to put Jay in some "1 Olympia" group instead of at the top or not even in the same sentence as Kevin or Shawn? He is a much better bodybuilder then them if you go by the wins.



Isn't the Mr. Olympia contest a judge of each pros physique and abilities on stage and showing their hardwork? And Jay won didn't he? Nuff said.[/QUOTE]


dude, who in the hell is saying that Jay didnt win?
please, answer me, when did i say that Jay didnt win? its almost like you want to argue.

1.people sometimes do put Ronnie in the same league as Haney, because you always hear there names mention together (wonder why?).
2.The reason why people put Ronnie on top of Haney is because...can i get another drumroll please....the level of competition that he has beaten compared to Haney.

dude, you have to be ****ing kidding me, because Jay won the O' he's better then Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone ???
well lets see, Dan Marino never won a championship...but Trent Dilfer is better because he has a championship??

Dude, why do you not think that Jay shouldnt be mention with those that have only won O', Has Jay won more then one O'?

Just because you came in SECOND (which is'nt first, it means that you lost) for so many years, or people "THOUGHT" (which isnt a win, it means that you didnt win) you shouldve won, doesnt mean that you are the winner, if that was the case then ...Ronnie Coleman was the winner last year, because he came in second and some people think that he was the real winner. Second place is two things,
1. the highest loser
2. the first loser
and Jay has been that for most of his O career against Ronnie and Ronnie was that this year.

Acourse Ronnie was beaten, hell, Arnold was beaten, Yates was beaten, The Yankees were beaten, the Celtics were beaten, but do we give a damn about who beaten them? No, we remember THEIR LEGACY, we remember how they destroyed their opponents for numerous years (and that's opponents with a "s"). We always place the numerous Champs on top as opppse to the one win Champions, because that's a legacy.

Does Jay have a legacy, no he has A Championship and a bunch of second place finish, which i do agree with you puts him the league as Olympipa champion, but not in the league of the greatest of all-time or a numerous champ, because he has won 1 Championship. Dude realize that he has won 1, he has won 1, he is in the catergory of the 1 winners...because he has won ....1, not 2 or three or 8, he has won 1. When he wins 3 theres a category for that....the three win group, the same for 8 and 2. Right now he Has 1, therefore he's in the 1 win group. I'm not making this up, he really only has 1 (for right now).
Did i ever say he sucks? no
Did I ever say he wont win again? no
All i did was state facts, and if i didt please point them out to me

[Mario_D]

is it hot in here or just me...... :S

[AlphaMaleLilJay]

My last thought on this thread is...

ONE Olympia Win isn't bad. Since when do we criticize someone for "only" being the best one planet Earth "One Time?" That's a feat that only a few men have accomplished since Larry Scott began it all.

Jay Cutler's legacy will not rise and fall from his Olympia triumphs and battles... his legacy has already been constructed in regards to his unstoppable tenacity, work ethic, and perseverance... in the face of so much doubt and disregard.

-Aaron Smith

[coldfusion71]

so the fuk what if columbo won two, you know were im getting at, the only reason why were talking about Jay now and not Samir is because...drumroll please...he just won the fuking olympia, were also talking more about Jay then Arnold or any other bodybuilder, so what is your point? What i was getting at (which how i dont see wasnt so fuking obvious), is that Jay has won one O' and right now he is in the catergory of the One O' winners, until he can prove otherwise, but to make you happy...JAY IS IN THE CATEGORY OF OLYMPIA WINNERS AND WILL WIN UNTIL HE RETIRES!!!!, is that what you want everyone to say, because we all can look into the future and see that right? Dude, no one knows what tommorow holds, he might win 10 straight or for some strange reason he might finish out of the top 5, maybe he tears a bicep or maybe his waist gets even tighter, my point is no one knows

Jay is much different from them though. He was considered to be the winner on several times and was also the only guy to come in second consecutively. But you try and demean him by putting him in a "1 Olympia win" group, but each Olympia should be considered unique for what they brought, had, and presence. Do people put Haney in the same league as Ronnie? No, they usually just say Ronnie is flat out the best even though he did lose which Haney didn't.

[/Quote]and yes they all have owned Ronnie in the O'....but none of them was fuking Mr.O, now were they? What i was stating is that Ronnie as champion has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders ever at there best, why is that even argumentative or a problem for you, this is a fact, not just a random statement, but you seem to have a problem with that!....do you have that much Jay love that others cant say good things about Coleman? Im not even a Jay fan but i gave him his props.[/Quote]

Yes, Ronnie has beat some of the best in the Olympia, but he was beat, if only one time by someone, which shows that they had something that stood out that year and the margin of points wasn't even close. Why can't you acknowledge that instead of trying to put Jay in some "1 Olympia" group instead of at the top or not even in the same sentence as Kevin or Shawn? He is a much better bodybuilder then them if you go by the wins.



Isn't the Mr. Olympia contest a judge of each pros physique and abilities on stage and showing their hardwork? And Jay won didn't he? Nuff said.[/QUOTE]


dude, who in the hell is saying that Jay didnt win?
please, answer me, when did i say that Jay didnt win? its almost like you want to argue.

1.people sometimes do put Ronnie in the same league as Haney, because you always hear there names mention together (wonder why?).
2.The reason why people put Ronnie on top of Haney is because...can i get another drumroll please....the level of competition that he has beaten compared to Haney.

dude, you have to be ****ing kidding me, because Jay won the O' he's better then Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone ???
well lets see, Dan Marino never won a championship...but Trent Dilfer is better because he has a championship??

Dude, why do you not think that Jay shouldnt be mention with those that have only won O', Has Jay won more then one O'?

Just because you came in SECOND (which is'nt first, it means that you lost) for so many years, or people "THOUGHT" (which isnt a win, it means that you didnt win) you shouldve won, doesnt mean that you are the winner, if that was the case then ...Ronnie Coleman was the winner last year, because he came in second and some people think that he was the real winner. Second place is two things,
1. the highest loser
2. the first loser
and Jay has been that for most of his O career against Ronnie and Ronnie was that this year.

Acourse Ronnie was beaten, hell, Arnold was beaten, Yates was beaten, The Yankees were beaten, the Celtics were beaten, but do we give a damn about who beaten them? No, we remember THEIR LEGACY, we remember how they destroyed their opponents for numerous years (and that's opponents with a "s"). We always place the numerous Champs on top as opppse to the one win Champions, because that's a legacy.

Does Jay have a legacy, no he has A Championship and a bunch of second place finish, which i do agree with you puts him the league as Olympipa champion, but not in the league of the greatest of all-time or a numerous champ, because he has won 1 Championship. Dude realize that he has won 1, he has won 1, he is in the catergory of the 1 winners...because he has won ....1, not 2 or three or 8, he has won 1. When he wins 3 theres a category for that....the three win group, the same for 8 and 2. Right now he Has 1, therefore he's in the 1 win group. I'm not making this up, he really only has 1 (for right now).
Did i ever say he sucks? no
Did I ever say he wont win again? no
All i did was state facts, and if i didt please point them out to me[/QUOTE]



the kid is a joke, engaging him in a coherent conversation is a excersize in futility, he will pervert and distort every post you make.

[coldfusion71]

Flex Wheeler only lost by 3 points in 1998 and has futile width in comparison to Cutler. I dont think Cutler would have lost in the situation you described. Cutlers width for his height dwarves all others to the point small defiiciencies in his conditioning can be overlooked.

yes olympia is not about conditioning,vasculartity, straitions,conditioning, it is a contest who has a wider build and looks like a unaesthetic fridge. it is funny how your thinking and rationalazations morph and evolve over a short time .

[Guardian]

Jay is much different from them though. He was considered to be the winner on several times and was also the only guy to come in second consecutively. But you try and demean him by putting him in a "1 Olympia win" group, but each Olympia should be considered unique for what they brought, had, and presence. Do people put Haney in the same league as Ronnie? No, they usually just say Ronnie is flat out the best even though he did lose which Haney didn't.

and yes they all have owned Ronnie in the O'....but none of them was fuking Mr.O, now were they? What i was stating is that Ronnie as champion has beaten some of the greatest bodybuilders ever at there best, why is that even argumentative or a problem for you, this is a fact, not just a random statement, but you seem to have a problem with that!....do you have that much Jay love that others cant say good things about Coleman? Im not even a Jay fan but i gave him his props.[/Quote]

Yes, Ronnie has beat some of the best in the Olympia, but he was beat, if only one time by someone, which shows that they had something that stood out that year and the margin of points wasn't even close. Why can't you acknowledge that instead of trying to put Jay in some "1 Olympia" group instead of at the top or not even in the same sentence as Kevin or Shawn? He is a much better bodybuilder then them if you go by the wins.



Isn't the Mr. Olympia contest a judge of each pros physique and abilities on stage and showing their hardwork? And Jay won didn't he? Nuff said.[/QUOTE]


dude, who in the hell is saying that Jay didnt win?
please, answer me, when did i say that Jay didnt win? its almost like you want to argue.

1.people sometimes do put Ronnie in the same league as Haney, because you always hear there names mention together (wonder why?).
2.The reason why people put Ronnie on top of Haney is because...can i get another drumroll please....the level of competition that he has beaten compared to Haney.

dude, you have to be ****ing kidding me, because Jay won the O' he's better then Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone ???
well lets see, Dan Marino never won a championship...but Trent Dilfer is better because he has a championship??

Dude, why do you not think that Jay shouldnt be mention with those that have only won O', Has Jay won more then one O'?

Just because you came in SECOND (which is'nt first, it means that you lost) for so many years, or people "THOUGHT" (which isnt a win, it means that you didnt win) you shouldve won, doesnt mean that you are the winner, if that was the case then ...Ronnie Coleman was the winner last year, because he came in second and some people think that he was the real winner. Second place is two things,
1. the highest loser
2. the first loser
and Jay has been that for most of his O career against Ronnie and Ronnie was that this year.

Acourse Ronnie was beaten, hell, Arnold was beaten, Yates was beaten, The Yankees were beaten, the Celtics were beaten, but do we give a damn about who beaten them? No, we remember THEIR LEGACY, we remember how they destroyed their opponents for numerous years (and that's opponents with a "s"). We always place the numerous Champs on top as opppse to the one win Champions, because that's a legacy.

Does Jay have a legacy, no he has A Championship and a bunch of second place finish, which i do agree with you puts him the league as Olympipa champion, but not in the league of the greatest of all-time or a numerous champ, because he has won 1 Championship. Dude realize that he has won 1, he has won 1, he is in the catergory of the 1 winners...because he has won ....1, not 2 or three or 8, he has won 1. When he wins 3 theres a category for that....the three win group, the same for 8 and 2. Right now he Has 1, therefore he's in the 1 win group. I'm not making this up, he really only has 1 (for right now).
Did i ever say he sucks? no
Did I ever say he wont win again? no
All i did was state facts, and if i didt please point them out to me[/QUOTE]



the kid is a joke, engaging him in a coherent conversation is a excersize in futility, he will pervert and distort every post you make.[/QUOTE]

Arnold and Yates were never beaten once they won the Olympia, therefore putting them in the same type of category doesnt make sense in the way you described.

While I wont debate in a technical sense whether Levrone or Ray or or aren't "better" then Cutler I will say your reasoning is flawed. Football for example is a team sport, a great quarterback may never win the big one because of a poor team or poor coaching, etc. On the other hand bodybuildin gis about the individual and is not geared at performance rather is geared at appearance. Therefore unlike other sports in bodybuilding there is much more correlation to winning the big one and how good you are.

Now I know you may say I have contradicted myself before in the above, let me explain. While winning the Olympia is individualistic and indication of greatness at one time it is harder to use it to accuratly gauge pros against one another. For example someone may decide to retire after 3 years of winning the Olympia. There is no doubt he is the best for those years, but to simply say someone with more Olympia wins is better is not a good idea. This uis because the 3 time winner may have a better body but decided to leave the sport.


My basic idea here is the Olympia can be used to see whos the best at a particular time. But in comparing timespans of winners it is less accurate to merely to count up wins. The Olympia shows greatness at a particular time. If a winners greatness at that time exceeds the greatness of anyone else then he is the best. Notice the above statement does not indicate a need for a certain amount of wins rather stresses a point in time. Ideally this means each champions "best" time is what is actually indicative of there physique that should be used in comparison as opposed to win count.

[Guardian]

yes olympia is not about conditioning,vasculartity, straitions,conditioning, it is a contest who has a wider build and looks like a unaesthetic fridge. it is funny how your thinking and rationalazations morph and evolve over a short time .

They are all important but in modern day raw size is the "most" important factor followed by others. Rarely if ever were Ronnie or Jay the most conditioned in the entire lineup. Jay does not look like a fridge.... that is quite rude to say imo..


If your reasoning were true Gaspari would have beaten Haney a couple times.
jay was the widest man on stage for his build and imo this is the "largest" reason he won, not the only but the largest.

[coldfusion71]

you really need to stop talking your reasoning gets more and more convoluted and irrational the more you post. your views are notiing more than a complicated formula to slight someone who you hate for whatever reason, it is truly sad.