Kelei Routines/Advice

[Effrum]

Most of my queries were resolved by reading the thread, i have some questions regarding the beginner routine which i started last week.

1.Can i start with the assisted dips as i am unable to perform BW dips with full rom? or would bench dips be a better option (heard they are not good for your shoulders)?

2 My gym has only a smith machine, which among these would be better?
-Bulgarian split squat
-Leg curl/ Leg extension
I am avoiding Dumbbell front squats as it would be a problem holding heavy weights as i progress

Calculated my TDEE & trying to fix my diet with as much food as i can (Vegetarian), if protein intake is low then i would consider adding supplements. Current water intake is about 1.5-2 Ltrs which is quite low
Rest is a bit of an issue as i am working in rotational shift which changes every 2 weeks (morning->night->afternoon). Few days i can get 4 hrs of sleep, other days it would be 6-7 hrs.

Are you doing dips for chest or triceps? If you're doing dips for chest, then honestly I would say just do flat bench instead of doing weight-assisted. But if you would rather stick with dips, then you could try just doing negatives (lower yourself as slowly as possible).

Split squats and Glute-Ham-Raise or hyperextensions should be fine. What about a leg press?

[nikhil316]

Are you doing dips for chest or triceps? If you're doing dips for chest, then honestly I would say just do flat bench instead of doing weight-assisted. But if you would rather stick with dips, then you could try just doing negatives (lower yourself as slowly as possible).

Split squats and Glute-Ham-Raise or hyperextensions should be fine. What about a leg press?

Forgot to mention, dips are for triceps. No equipment for leg press.

[amashmous]

hello i've been doing this for the last month
it's really an intense work out .i had to take a deload week cuz i started having cramps all over my body specially when i do tooth extraction (i'm a dentist)
but the thing is i'm doing this to cut extra body fat but instead i started gaining weight :/ this is really weird and at the same time my muscles are starting to show more
here is my routine :
upper :

pull ups
db rows
chest dumble flys
bench press
bi curl
skull crusher
lateral raises
calf raises
lower:
leg extension
squat
launges
calf raises
romainian deadlift
sometimes i add lower abs

my body weight went from 84 to 87.5 im 24 years old 1.76 m and i think im between 15-20 body fat
i dont eat more than 2000 calories a day but to days a week i have like 2500
can someone explain to me what im doing wrong

[ThatOneLurker]

I don't notice anything on KNO3, stacked it with some of the Komodo Vaskular I had left today and still didn't notice anything different lol.

First time taking KNO3 I felt a bit tingly all over but it has since subsided.

[Effrum]

Forgot to mention, dips are for triceps. No equipment for leg press.

Since I'm assuming you don't have access to a machine for cable press-downs, try just doing negatives then, like I mentioned above.

hello i've been doing this for the last month
it's really an intense work out .i had to take a deload week cuz i started having cramps all over my body specially when i do tooth extraction (i'm a dentist)
but the thing is i'm doing this to cut extra body fat but instead i started gaining weight :/ this is really weird and at the same time my muscles are starting to show more

my body weight went from 84 to 87.5 im 24 years old 1.76 m and i think im between 15-20 body fat
i dont eat more than 2000 calories a day but to days a week i have like 2500
can someone explain to me what im doing wrong

If you're gaining weight, but not gaining fat, I don't see the problem .

[krysix]

For guys that have been doing this routine for a good while, did you notice any difference not doing any overhead triceps isolation in the long head of the triceps? I've been using overhead press but I'm thinking about switching to pushdowns.

[Alyion]

2 My gym has only a smith machine, which among these would be better?
-Bulgarian split squat
-Leg curl/ Leg extension
I am avoiding Dumbbell front squats as it would be a problem holding heavy weights as i progress

Smith front squats would be fine, you can also do back squats on the smith with your legs out in front like a hack squat to replace leg press.

[J777]

I'm a married man, it's still sinking in. Life is busy, I'm performing weekend only training, upper body on Saturday and lower body on Sunday, very high volume in order to compensate (at least somewhat) for the reduced frequency.

Kelei, in your opinion, can you continue making muscle gains by doing infrequent, but high volume? Majority of studies point to 60-80 reps for a bodypart as enough volume, so how does the idea of trying to compensate by ramping up the volume fit in?

[Effrum]

Kelei, in your opinion, can you continue making muscle gains by doing infrequent, but high volume? Majority of studies point to 60-80 reps for a bodypart as enough volume, so how does the idea of trying to compensate by ramping up the volume fit in?

I would imagine that you still could, but it would likely be noticeably slower progress than someone who is able to go more frequently - even if you were using a very high volume per session. To quote something Kelei has said in the past:

In order of least efficient to most efficient:
100 reps 1x a week
50 reps 2x a week
25 reps 4x a week
20 reps 5x a week

[J777]

I would imagine that you still could, but it would likely be noticeably slower progress than someone who is able to go more frequently - even if you were using a very high volume per session. To quote something Kelei has said in the past:

In order of least efficient to most efficient:
100 reps 1x a week
50 reps 2x a week
25 reps 4x a week
20 reps 5x a week

Always hurts seeing how someone annihilates chest with 30 sets

[Effrum]

Always hurts seeing how someone annihilates chest with 30 sets

Haha, I guess if they've got the endurance/work capacity to do 30 sets on chest multiple times a week it would work just fine. Not to mention patience, I think that would be my biggest problem.

[J777]

Haha, I guess if they've got the endurance/work capacity to do 30 sets on chest multiple times a week it would work just fine. Not to mention patience, I think that would be my biggest problem.

there is no point to do that many sets to be honest, that is overboard. My aim is personally to keep growing. My best results came when I reduced the volume and increased the frequency

[Effrum]

there is no point to do that many sets to be honest, that is overboard. My aim is personally to keep growing. My best results came when I reduced the volume and increased the frequency

I agree that the higher frequency is better, I just meant if they had the ability to do that much volume AND keep up frequency, then more power to them.

[ThatOneLurker]

I do about 30 sets of chest. Volume is fun.

[iMangles]

Looking for a bit of advice for what direction I should move in right now.

DEXA scan early in the year came out at 91kg (200lbs) at around 17% bodyfat (15.5kg or so (34lbs) of bodyfat)

Today had a composition analysis done. Results were 79.9kg (176lbs) 12.7% bodyfat (10kg or 22lbs of bodyfat)

So a reduction of around 11kg bodyweight, 5.5kg of which was bodyfat. Currently at 12.7%

Male, 29, 178cm (5ft 10inch)

During those months I basically cut at 2000 calories for several months, did a short smolov jr cycle in the middle to break up the monotony where I gained a good bit of strength, but put on a good bit of fat again, and now back to weight loss at 1900ish cals on average. Basically eating at my BMR which was suggested by the doctor who did the scans.

Not sure how I feel exactly about the results. Im really happy to be under 13% at last, but only half of the weight loss was actual fat. I cant find my initial scan results to compare but I imagine the other 5kg was a mix of water weight and some muscle mass, how much I'm not sure.

So I would like to lose those last few kg, but am worried about losing any muscle mass, plus I'm really sick of low calories.


My question then is, would you suggest I work hard and aim for 10%, or should I hold steady here and recomp, or put on another couple kg of bodyweight, then recomp.

I usually just try to figure this stuff out myself and have a go, but am tired of treading water and making wrong turns. I pretty much have come to the conclusion that bulks are no good for me, I was overweight as a teenager and it has become a constant battle to keep the bodyfat down, which then eats into time where I could be building strength and muscle mass

Am currently running the beginner program, but my bench is in intermediate level, squat is pretty close to the threshold and RDL is a decent whack below. I only just switched to this program though and have primarily done traditional deadlifts so need to get used to the RDL movement I think.
Was planning to stick to the beginner for a little while and move to the intermediate sometime early in the new year.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated!

[davo26]

Looking for a bit of advice for what direction I should move in right now.

DEXA scan early in the year came out at 91kg (200lbs) at around 17% bodyfat (15.5kg or so (34lbs) of bodyfat)

Today had a composition analysis done. Results were 79.9kg (176lbs) 12.7% bodyfat (10kg or 22lbs of bodyfat)

So a reduction of around 11kg bodyweight, 5.5kg of which was bodyfat. Currently at 12.7%

Male, 29, 178cm (5ft 10inch)

During those months I basically cut at 2000 calories for several months, did a short smolov jr cycle in the middle to break up the monotony where I gained a good bit of strength, but put on a good bit of fat again, and now back to weight loss at 1900ish cals on average. Basically eating at my BMR which was suggested by the doctor who did the scans.

Not sure how I feel exactly about the results. Im really happy to be under 13% at last, but only half of the weight loss was actual fat. I cant find my initial scan results to compare but I imagine the other 5kg was a mix of water weight and some muscle mass, how much I'm not sure.

So I would like to lose those last few kg, but am worried about losing any muscle mass, plus I'm really sick of low calories.


My question then is, would you suggest I work hard and aim for 10%, or should I hold steady here and recomp, or put on another couple kg of bodyweight, then recomp.

I usually just try to figure this stuff out myself and have a go, but am tired of treading water and making wrong turns. I pretty much have come to the conclusion that bulks are no good for me, I was overweight as a teenager and it has become a constant battle to keep the bodyfat down, which then eats into time where I could be building strength and muscle mass

Am currently running the beginner program, but my bench is in intermediate level, squat is pretty close to the threshold and RDL is a decent whack below. I only just switched to this program though and have primarily done traditional deadlifts so need to get used to the RDL movement I think.
Was planning to stick to the beginner for a little while and move to the intermediate sometime early in the new year.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated!

only you can answer that question mate, as we all have different goals and bodyfat %'s that we can realistically aim for. i too got a bit sick of 'treading water' and lifts staying the same whilst recomping, so decided id bulk over winter, cut for summer. its probably not optimal, and i do believe id be better off sticking with keleis recommendation of '5lb recomps', but this just suits me better right now. i dont like the extra blubber im gaining, but i just know for my lifestyle (work/socializing/family etc) i can realistically do no better. i just hope i can be strict enough with myself to strip it all off after christmas, but i know ill never get to 10% bf, so i just have a realistic aim of 'looking good with some abzzz.

i think we all fear muscle loss whilst cutting, and try and minimise it as much as possible, but all i can say is, that if youre working out for hypertrophy goals rather than strength say, that the lower bf you go, you appear more muscley, even tho you may not be. if that makes sense :-)

but....like i say, its going to be personal as to whether youd be happier bulking/cutting/recomping, for whatever reason and how far you go by what deadline etc.

oh, and personally i dont look at the numbers to decide whether im beginner, intermediate or whatever, so thats the routine i need to do. i just do the routine that i like doing best. theyre all good routines thatll give good results, the diets the main thing.

[iMangles]

only you can answer that question mate, as we all have different goals and bodyfat %'s that we can realistically aim for. i too got a bit sick of 'treading water' and lifts staying the same whilst recomping, so decided id bulk over winter, cut for summer. its probably not optimal, and i do believe id be better off sticking with keleis recommendation of '5lb recomps', but this just suits me better right now. i dont like the extra blubber im gaining, but i just know for my lifestyle (work/socializing/family etc) i can realistically do no better. i just hope i can be strict enough with myself to strip it all off after christmas, but i know ill never get to 10% bf, so i just have a realistic aim of 'looking good with some abzzz.

i think we all fear muscle loss whilst cutting, and try and minimise it as much as possible, but all i can say is, that if youre working out for hypertrophy goals rather than strength say, that the lower bf you go, you appear more muscley, even tho you may not be. if that makes sense :-)

but....like i say, its going to be personal as to whether youd be happier bulking/cutting/recomping, for whatever reason and how far you go by what deadline etc.

oh, and personally i dont look at the numbers to decide whether im beginner, intermediate or whatever, so thats the routine i need to do. i just do the routine that i like doing best. theyre all good routines thatll give good results, the diets the main thing.

Yeah thanks mate, that makes sense. I guess I do want to try the recomp method, as bulking has resulted in too much fat gain in the past. At 12.7% bodyfat, is this a good position to recomp, or should I aim for a little more weight first do you think? What is generally recommended as far as recomp's go, or is it anywhere within in the 12-15% range?

[Kelei]

I agree that the higher frequency is better, I just meant if they had the ability to do that much volume AND keep up frequency, then more power to them.

For less advanced lifters frequency is key, the faster you learn to recruit more motor units the faster you'll grow, rapid strength progression requires a high training frequency. For more advanced lifters it's volume per session that begins to take precedence, beginners can stimulate hypertrophy just fine with 1-3 sets per session per muscle group, intermediate lifters probably need no more than 5-6 sets per session per muscle group, advanced lifters might need at least 10-12 sets per session per muscle group.

There are two ways to promote hypertrophy:

1. Gain strength, recruiting more motor units allows you to expose more muscle to a training stimulus, exposing 80% of your motor units to 3 sets of work is going to promote more hypertrophy than exposing only 40% of your motor units to 3 sets of work. Hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing new (previously untrained) motor units to work, hypertrophy comes to a halt when you can no longer recruit additional motor units.

2. Exposing any given motor unit to more work, hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing motor units to extra work.

Usually what happens is that a lifter will focus on learning to recruit as many motor units as possible milking all the "free" hypertrophy that comes along with it but eventually they'll need to start gradually increasing their training volume in order to promote further hypertrophy.

[davo26]

For less advanced lifters frequency is key, the faster you learn to recruit more motor units the faster you'll grow, rapid strength progression requires a high training frequency. For more advanced lifters it's volume per session that begins to take precedence, beginners can stimulate hypertrophy just fine with 1-3 sets per session per muscle group, intermediate lifters probably need no more than 5-6 sets per session per muscle group, advanced lifters might need at least 10-12 sets per session per muscle group.

There are two ways to promote hypertrophy:

1. Gain strength, recruiting more motor units allows you to expose more muscle to a training stimulus, exposing 80% of your motor units to 3 sets of work is going to promote more hypertrophy than exposing only 40% of your motor units to 3 sets of work. Hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing new (previously untrained) motor units to work, hypertrophy comes to a halt when you can no longer recruit additional motor units.

2. Exposing any given motor unit to more work, hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing motor units to extra work.

Usually what happens is that a lifter will focus on learning to recruit as many motor units as possible milking all the "free" hypertrophy that comes along with it but eventually they'll need to start gradually increasing their training volume in order to promote further hypertrophy.

K, how do you make up the difference from 40 to 80%? is it variety of exercises, as in hammer curls plus normal curls, flat bench plus incline etc..... or is it just by getting stronger in one exercise and making progress?

and BIG congratulations to you and AD mate, im well chuffed for you both :-)

[klaximilian]

I don't notice anything on KNO3, stacked it with some of the Komodo Vaskular I had left today and still didn't notice anything different lol.

First time taking KNO3 I felt a bit tingly all over but it has since subsided.

How much did you dose?

Odd, I get ridiculous pumps from it.

[roberto487]

For less advanced lifters frequency is key, the faster you learn to recruit more motor units the faster you'll grow, rapid strength progression requires a high training frequency. For more advanced lifters it's volume per session that begins to take precedence, beginners can stimulate hypertrophy just fine with 1-3 sets per session per muscle group, intermediate lifters probably need no more than 5-6 sets per session per muscle group, advanced lifters might need at least 10-12 sets per session per muscle group.

There are two ways to promote hypertrophy:

1. Gain strength, recruiting more motor units allows you to expose more muscle to a training stimulus, exposing 80% of your motor units to 3 sets of work is going to promote more hypertrophy than exposing only 40% of your motor units to 3 sets of work. Hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing new (previously untrained) motor units to work, hypertrophy comes to a halt when you can no longer recruit additional motor units.

2. Exposing any given motor unit to more work, hypertrophy occurs because you're constantly exposing motor units to extra work.

Usually what happens is that a lifter will focus on learning to recruit as many motor units as possible milking all the "free" hypertrophy that comes along with it but eventually they'll need to start gradually increasing their training volume in order to promote further hypertrophy.

When you count the amount of sets for chest do you count all the different exercises (compound and isolation) in that calculation. For example for intermediate 5-6 sets. Do you mean 5-6 sets of just bench press, then 5-6 sets of other chest exercises? or do you mean a total of 5-6 sets of bench press, incline press, flyes and decline? Oh congratulations on your marriage Kelei.

[ThatOneLurker]

How much did you dose?

Odd, I get ridiculous pumps from it.

first day 2 capsules, 3 capsules since. I just get a tingly feeling in the bodypart that I'm training.

this guy at the gym told me to try noxivol, I'm probably going to hop on that. It's non-stim but it has Beta alanine in it, so I can see why he said it gave him ridiculous pumps.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ct...s/noxivol.html

[klaximilian]

first day 2 capsules, 3 capsules since. I just get a tingly feeling in the bodypart that I'm training.

this guy at the gym told me to try noxivol, I'm probably going to hop on that. It's non-stim but it has Beta alanine in it, so I can see why he said it gave him ridiculous pumps.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ct...s/noxivol.html

KNO3 shouldn't give you tingles. Beta Alanine should.

I've never heard of Beta Alanine causing pumps. Sure it allows you push through fatigue, so maybe that helps contribute to the pump.

[TX0708]

Following the advice received for subbing Tucked Elbows Cable Rows for Incline DB Rows, I've tried it out this week and just can't get a good feel for the exercise. I'm thinking about subbing in Inverted Ring Rows, would this be a like for like or might I be better off with a bent over barbell row?

[Kelei]

K, how do you make up the difference from 40 to 80%? is it variety of exercises, as in hammer curls plus normal curls, flat bench plus incline etc..... or is it just by getting stronger in one exercise and making progress?

and BIG congratulations to you and AD mate, im well chuffed for you both :-)

I think it's best to keep variety limited until you get strong, for example it's better to double your bench press strength compared to increasing your bench + flyes + dips + crossovers all by only 50%, assuming equal training volume.

I built 90% of the mass in my chest using wide grip bench press as my only chest exercise, by focusing all my chest training time into a single exercise I was able to increase my strength quite quickly, I had a lot of practise which is essential to promoting neurological strength adaptions, I was already benching 140 kg for 12 reps (feet on bench, back flat, wide grip) before I began incorporating additional chest exercises.

One of the best plateau breakers I know of is to drop secondary exercises and focus solely on a single primary exercise, so to use my example above you'd drop every chest exercise except for flat bench press and devote your entire chest workout to it. For example, instead of performing 10-20 sets (in total) of various chest exercises you would perform 10-20 sets of flat bench press, and no I'm not ****ing with you, it works like no other.

When you count the amount of sets for chest do you count all the different exercises (compound and isolation) in that calculation. For example for intermediate 5-6 sets. Do you mean 5-6 sets of just bench press, then 5-6 sets of other chest exercises? or do you mean a total of 5-6 sets of bench press, incline press, flyes and decline? Oh congratulations on your marriage Kelei.

Total sets including all exercises.

[davo26]

I think it's best to keep variety limited until you get strong, for example it's better to double your bench press strength compared to increasing your bench + flyes + dips + crossovers all by only 50%, assuming equal training volume.

I built 90% of the mass in my chest using wide grip bench press as my only chest exercise, by focusing all my chest training time into a single exercise I was able to increase my strength quite quickly, I had a lot of practise which is essential to promoting neurological strength adaptions, I was already benching 140 kg for 12 reps (feet on bench, back flat, wide grip) before I began incorporating additional chest exercises.

One of the best plateau breakers I know of is to drop secondary exercises and focus solely on a single primary exercise, so to use my example above you'd drop every chest exercise except for flat bench press and devote your entire chest workout to it. For example, instead of performing 10-20 sets (in total) of various chest exercises you would perform 10-20 sets of flat bench press, and no I'm not ****ing with you, it works like no other.

thats very interesting indeed, thanks, may try that sometime soon. just thinking tho, after 3 or 4 sets, even with a decent rest between sets, i think id only be getting reps of 4 or 5ish, so couldnt really call them full sets. whereas if you move to a different exercise such as flyes it feels like youre 'starting again with fresh muscles' if you know what i mean.

EDIT: oh, and to use your example above, for biceps then, better growth would come from 6 sets of incline db curls say, rather than 2 sets each of incline curls, cable curls and hammer curls? or 6 sets hammer over 2 sets each hammer, incline and cable etc. that would surprise me, especially knowing that hammer curls hit a different part of the biceps for instance. or is there 1 optimum exercise that would hit the bicep better than all the others?
good info mate, but its confused me a little now :-)

[Kelei]

thats very interesting indeed, thanks, may try that sometime soon. just thinking tho, after 3 or 4 sets, even with a decent rest between sets, i think id only be getting reps of 4 or 5ish, so couldnt really call them full sets. whereas if you move to a different exercise such as flyes it feels like youre 'starting again with fresh muscles' if you know what i mean.

EDIT: oh, and to use your example above, for biceps then, better growth would come from 6 sets of incline db curls say, rather than 2 sets each of incline curls, cable curls and hammer curls? or 6 sets hammer over 2 sets each hammer, incline and cable etc. that would surprise me, especially knowing that hammer curls hit a different part of the biceps for instance. or is there 1 optimum exercise that would hit the bicep better than all the others?
good info mate, but its confused me a little now :-)

By far the most important variable is your total tonnage, just aim for a total rep target and don't worry so much as to how exactly you reach it, if you're aiming for 50 total reps with 200 pounds I guarantee that 90% of your gains/progress will come from simply reaching this target regardless of how exactly how it happens, everything else (set/rep/rest combinations etc) accounts for only 10% of the big picture.

Unless you're already advanced your priority should be increasing your strength levels, it just so happens that devoting more training volume to any given exercise will increase your rate of strength progression, if your squat is currently 200 x 10 you should be aiming to increase it to 350 x 10 ASAP, the most efficient/effective way to accomplish this is to simply squat a lot, by eliminating all other quad exercises from your routine you allow for a greater volume of squatting.

To give you an example, compare the following:

- Lifter A starts with a 150 x 10 squat, 50 x 10 leg extensions and 75 x 10 lunges
- Lifter B starts with a 150 x 10 squat and the squat is his only quad exercise

Both lifters begin training their quads with equal volume, after 1 year it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 225 x 10, leg extensions are 75 x 10 and lunges are 112.5 x 10
- Lifter B is squatting 300 x 10

After 2 years it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 300 x 10, leg extensions are 100 x 10 and lunges are 150 x 10
- Lifter B is squatting 450 x 10

After all is said and done who do you think is going to have bigger quads? Forget about the linear progression for the time being, it applies equally to both examples and doesn't invalidate the underlying principle.

[getmynameright]

^ Kelei, can I ask a few questions.

"you should take your first set to failure (as many full reps as possible, not actually failing)"- From the OP. So that would mean you should not train to failure as in attempting a rep and actually not managing to get it. How can one know when the next rep will be failure and shouldn't go for it ?

What would be the best set method after rest-pause in terms of rest between sets, rep-range, sets and etc.

In terms of results, does it matter if a Push/pull/legs is done like in the fashion of a 3 on/ 1 off or 6 on/ one off or even 3 on without rest ?

I haven't seen any recommendations towards volume per session per bodypart and would like your take on this when there is no rest-pause.

Thanks

[davo26]

By far the most important variable is your total tonnage, just aim for a total rep target and don't worry so much as to how exactly you reach it, if you're aiming for 50 total reps with 200 pounds I guarantee that 90% of your gains/progress will come from simply reaching this target regardless of how exactly how it happens, everything else (set/rep/rest combinations etc) accounts for only 10% of the big picture.

Unless you're already advanced your priority should be increasing your strength levels, it just so happens that devoting more training volume to any given exercise will increase your rate of strength progression, if your squat is currently 200 x 10 you should be aiming to increase it to 350 x 10 ASAP, the most efficient/effective way to accomplish this is to simply squat a lot, by eliminating all other quad exercises from your routine you allow for a greater volume of squatting.

To give you an example, compare the following:

- Lifter A starts with a 150 x 10 squat, 50 x 10 leg extensions and 75 x 10 lunges
- Lifter B starts with a 150 x 10 squat and the squat is his only quad exercise

Both lifters begin training their quads with equal volume, after 1 year it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 225 x 10, leg extensions are 75 x 10 and lunges are 112.5 x 10
- Lifter B is squatting 300 x 10

After 2 years it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 300 x 10, leg extensions are 100 x 10 and lunges are 150 x 10
- Lifter B is squatting 450 x 10

After all is said and done who do you think is going to have bigger quads? Forget about the linear progression for the time being, it applies equally to both examples and doesn't invalidate the underlying principle.

great stuff yet again, thanks a lot. could i just mix that up tho by applying the same principle but different exercise focus....

- Lifter A starts with a 150 x 10 squat, 50 x 10 leg extensions and 75 x 10 lunges
- Lifter B starts with a 50 X 10 leg extensions and they are his only quad exercise

Both lifters begin training their quads with equal volume, after 1 year it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 225 x 10, leg extensions are 75 x 10 and lunges are 112.5 x 10
- Lifter B's leg extensions are 100 x 10

After 2 years it looks like:

- Lifter A is squatting 300 x 10, leg extensions are 100 x 10 and lunges are 150 x 10
- Lifter B;s leg extensions are 150 x 10

who will now have bigger quads?

spose what im asking is how important is the exercise that you choose to focus on? squats for legs, flat bench for chest etc. what would be the implications of doing flys only for chest, leg extensions for quads, ham curl for hams (no RDL any more), hammer curls for biceps etc.

[jmmainvi]

Came in looking to ask a question that came up in my training yesterday, but I find it's mostly already answered. I'll post it up anyway just to be sure.

My gym closed early yesterday and I wasn't aware of it ahead of time, so I had to reduce the length of my workout. If I'm on the intermediate routine, is it preferable to do my whole upper workout with 10 less reps per exercise (20 vs 30), or to cut half the exercises (drop flyes, one of my rows, and shrugs) and go with full reps on the remaining exercises?

I went with option 1, thinking "I'm getting 15 money reps per exercise * 2 exercises" vs doing the 2nd which gives me 25 money reps but only one exercise per body part. Option 1 is also greater total tonnage for the workout.

Am I correct in thinking that, in isolated workouts (say I do this once every three months when something comes up) Option 1 is better for my short term progress because it keeps the tonnage higher, but (per the discussion over the previous page) if it were a regular thing and I were designing a routine around having faster workouts, I should go with option 2 because it would allow me to move heavier weights sooner and make more progress that way?