Jesus died for your sins... LOL

[CHCL]

Today the teachings of that are distorted and changed.. no more are the people following what the people of Jesus and his companions followed. Utter corruption.

Do you even Church history? Every and all Church fathers would disagree with you and the Qur'an.

At the time, every Christian (besides heretics) believed Jesus to be God. So what you just said is false.

[Ransom17]

Don't forget about The Holy Ghost.

I am not talking about the trinity there but rather in Christ being both fully God and fully man.

[Streetbull]

My main objection to the idea of Jesus dying a horrible death to redeem us of our sins is that WE AREN'T WORTH IT. Let's face it -- at least 80% of us are worse than animals. We kill and torture for fun. We take everything invented and somehow use it to harm some one, usually when that other person is helpless. We are irredeemably evil as a species.

The vast majority of humanity is very lazy, stupid, and just wants drugs, sex, and violent sports and games.

Ask 100 people: who was Mozart and what did he do? Name 3 plays written by Shakespeare. Who was Nietzsche and what did he say in his books?

Fukkin' LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Manc33]

It might make sense if we assume "Jesus" means the good spirit in all of us and how if we sin, we are destroying that.

But actually Jesus is a representation of the sun the same as other deities in other religions that also have the sun behind their head.

In an indirect way it is sort of saying "you are the sun". Its something science is yet to understand... but then science was setup to poo poo this sort of talk - I wonder why that would be.

So then Christianity is simply sun worship, but in disguise using literal characters and creating a story around it. Why do you think bible bashers back in the past hated anyone looking at the stars? Because the bible wanted the exclusive rights to that stuff, all the bible is... is a cosmological account. They told everyone that stuff was the work of the devil while giving them a book all about it, where you'd never know it was about the cosmos without some deep research.

Now we can do that research we can fast track through a lot more stuff and see oh, so its like a sun worship religion where the "subjects" don't get that they are just worshipping the sun (and you are the sun thus worshipping yourself) which is the original "good" crux of it, maybe.

[lasher]

^ lol

[deadrats]

i'll say what i have always said to people that try to convert me by telling me of the promise of eternal salvation by accepting Jesus as my own personal Savior: i don't want anyone else to die for my sins, i'll die and pay for my own sins, thank you very much.

this always get's Christian's panties in an uproar, telling me i don't know what i am saying, i tell them i am not a coward, i'm willing to face the consequences for my own actions, it's called being a man and not a sissy.

[GreatOldOne]

I am not talking about the trinity there but rather in Christ being both fully God and fully man.

Nobody has ever imo taken the idea of Jesus being fully human and fully God seriously. There is no reconciliation of Jesus learning and the classical idea of God as 'perfect' while trying to stick to a Blessed Trinity.

None.

That is, if you want to keep divinity to just Jesus.

Edit: inb4 confines on unlimited being.

[lasher]

Nobody has ever imo taken the idea of Jesus being fully human and fully God seriously. There is no reconciliation of Jesus learning and the classical idea of God as 'perfect' while trying to stick to a Blessed Trinity.

not sure if srs. Athanasius wrote about this in the 4th century. So did augustine. So did aquinas in the 13th. Including reconciling Jesus learning.

[GreatOldOne]

not sure if srs. Athanasius wrote about this in the 4th century. So did augustine. So did aquinas in the 13th. Including reconciling Jesus learning.

They didn't do a very good job.

brb...let me tie spaghetti into the shape of the Eiffel tower (which doesn't stand up) = no true Scotsman.

[lasher]

They didn't do a very good job.

cool story

[Harbinger]

not sure if srs. Athanasius wrote about this in the 4th century. So did augustine. So did aquinas in the 13th. Including reconciling Jesus learning.

THIS JUST IN: Christians come to the conclusion that jesus is god ...

[MuzzieChik786]

THIS JUST IN: Christians come to the conclusion that jesus is god ...

A God that dies? Wot? O_o

(semi-srs)

[Harbinger]

A God that dies? Wot? O_o

(semi-srs)

Well, he's not really dead is he?

[GreatOldOne]

A God that dies? Wot? O_o

(semi-srs)

He must be an adventure seeker.

cool story

Yes, it is.

A God that dies? Wot? O_o

(semi-srs)

The only sense I get out of it is a metaphor between existence and man (or awareness)...as if they are trying to personify the reasons Solomon is questioning existence in Ecclesiastes and then forcing that into a historical person.

There is no special deity with a finger-part who is 'Jesus' and existence happened to have the God finger placed surprisingly 2000ish years ago into reality...and then subsequently nothing happened. lolz!!!!! If you were to take a 'Jesus as God' or any one of those very seriously...that leads directly to my Evil God theory where God may be a panentheistic force...but just 'interrupts' his own dream now and again...to stir chit up. I'm actually quite...I won't say disturbed because I know the expected quality of posts here...but I would say disappointed nobody has been able to successfully shoot this down since my spreading of this disturbing idea.

The best I have seen is 'Evil as potential good'. BARF. And, that also doesn't work once you follow it through...which Christians don't do.

That's just...untrue, from a historical standpoint and philosophical standpoint (BTW I also don't think Divinity schools should be allowed to award philosophy degrees even if they are good natured in whole. BRB IAM...tear up your degree and throw it in the trash. Nobody will accept it...except for guess who?).

[GreatOldOne]

Just to stir the pot.

Muslims have wrecked Christians on the God as person issue.

That is all.

[StartAtTheEnd]

Im not a Christian, but you flogs do know that a historical figure such as Jesus existed right?

[andrew28]

thread title reminded me of stanhopes bit about this. lol. the saying "died for your sins" has always confused me.

:55

[lasher]

Just to stir the pot.

Muslims have wrecked Christians on the God as person issue.

That is all.

Oh chit, he bolded it. Must be true.

[Turbomunkey]

[associate]

Do you even Church history? Every and all Church fathers would disagree with you and the Qur'an.

At the time, every Christian (besides heretics) believed Jesus to be God. So what you just said is false.

Haha there is no solid proof. When the Christian religion started up, they had books, but they were all destroyed. Everything was destroyed at the council of Nicaea. After that, nothing survived except certain books and some of those the church took out and put back in over the next thousand years. The book of Revelations is one of those books they took out and put back in, and took it out and took it back in. There are other books, when the Protestants broke off from the Catholic Church, that they threw out. Then there are more books that the orthodox have. Protestants have 66 books, Catholic 73 books, and Orthodox 78 books. Tell me which one is right? And then when you look at the verses, they don’t match.

The council of Nicea changed so much. The year was 325 A.D. according to the Roman calendar. A council was convened by order of Constantine, the Roman emperor. He had been a leader in the cult known as Sol Invictus (Invincible Sun) and now wanted to unite the Christian sects in the empire under his existing church; the Universal Church of Rome. Many changes to the religion of Christianity were about to take place at that council, including:

Formulation for wording concerning the Trinity based on Anthanias
Changing Verses of Bible
Eliminating certain verses and books from the Bible
Declaring Arian's "unitarian" (belief in the Unity of God) as heresy
Changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday
Changing the date of Jesus' birthday to December 25th
Introduction of Easter (pagan worship called "Feast of Ishtar")
Church of Roman "officially" became the "Universal Church of the Holy Roman Empire" (the word 'Catholic' means 'universal'


So what you there saying is baseless and has no argument. Christianity was changed forever after nicea. Today you can find thousands of versions of the bible suiting different peoples.

[sawoobley]

Does that even make any sense, you Christians crazy? Does it make any sense that someone would die for someone elses sins?
Would you send YOUR son to a certain death?
Also who is God Christians? God, Jesus, or the holy spirit? Who is actually GOD?

It's not just someone. It was God who died for our sins. Yes, I would send my son to a certain death with the knowledge that his sacrifice and resurrection would lead to the resurrection and eternal life for all my children who repent, take upon them the name of Christ and follow his teachings.

Christian beliefs are twisted. Don't even make any sense. Feel sorry for those who follow it and don't even question themselves when they're hit with something bizarre.
If Jesus died for our sins then what about the millions and millions of people before him? Does that mean they go to hell now?
If we're free from sin, why is there Hell?
Does that mean if I call myself a Christian yet rob a bank, rape a few woman, kill men women and children, take drugs and **** but still be granted Heaven???? wow how easy.

Jesus died for the sins of ALL mankind including those who lived before He did. The purpose of many of the rituals they did was to look forward to his eventual sacrifice for their sins and his victory over death. All those who have not repented of their sins are in a state we could call hell because they are spiritually separated from God. We are not all freed from sin nor its effects upon our lives. We must accept Jesus Christ and apply his atonement to our life. It is a lifelong process. We need to repent on a regular basis and recommit ourselves to Christ.

IMO, if you rob, rape and murder then you are going to hell. Christ's atonement is not a get out of jail free card. There must be a real change of heart, sincere repentance and an attempt at restoring what was stolen or damaged by your actions. The fact is when someone gets to the point where they are willing to murder someone in cold blood they are not likely to undergo the monstrous task of changing their life around. Now I am speaking of people who live in first world countries and not third world savages. I'm not saying it is impossible, only extremely unlikely IMHO.

If god is all powerful, then why does he need to sacrifice his son to rid humanity of sin? Why can't the all powerful god say all sin is absolved, and it is?

God's omnipotence cannot satisfy the need for justice. When God's laws are broken there is a punishment for it. No amount of punishment can restore a once unblemished soul to perfection and thus qualify that person for life with God. If God tried to forgive sins by simply declaring them forgiven because he said so he would not be just and would be a partial God forgiving sins at his whim. To forgive sins to qualify people for heaven requires an Infinite and Eternal sacrifice. Only a sacrifice by one who is perfect and able to suffer for the sins of the world would be enough and only God himself could do this.

When each of us stands before God to be judged of our sins and our minds are opened where we are able to comprehend the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and view our own life each of us will be able to concede that God's judgments are just. Not because he says so or under threat of his omnipotence but because we will see our deficiencies when we stand before a righteous and holy God. Our sins will be a source of embarrassment for us as we will be flawed and our soul filthy compared to God. In such a state we would do anything to escape the discomfort of standing before God's presence. Yet, if we accept the atonement of Jesus Christ and follow the teachings and course he has laid out for us our sins will be forgiven and through his merits and mercy we can stand clean before God, being acceptable before him.

Those who reject Christ in this life or the next will ultimately come to understand his sacrifice and will understand that his judgments upon them are just. Most, IMO, will be rewarded with far more than they deserve after suffering for their sins and will receive a reward and a life suited for who they have become.

i'll say what i have always said to people that try to convert me by telling me of the promise of eternal salvation by accepting Jesus as my own personal Savior: i don't want anyone else to die for my sins, i'll die and pay for my own sins, thank you very much.

this always get's Christian's panties in an uproar, telling me i don't know what i am saying, i tell them i am not a coward, i'm willing to face the consequences for my own actions, it's called being a man and not a sissy.

These Christians are somewhat misguided if they try this method of conversion. The point, IMHO, is to come to know Christ because he exists and has sacrificed for us so he may offer us a great gift. The invitation is to come to know Christ and to understand the nature of his atonement. The promise is this understanding through the Holy Ghost will bring peace in this life and hope for something better and eternal in the next plus much, much more.

You may die and suffer for your sins but the results will be undesirable because we are unable to perfect ourselves and justify ourselves so we can live with God and experience all he offers to those who come to know him. It's humility and meekness that are required not so called manliness.

[Indivdude]

[youtube]x6ARY2mszZE[/youtbe]

[associate]

Allah tells us in the Qu'ran how he helped the prophets Moses, Noah and Jesus in spreading the word of god.
Torah--"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).1
Psalms--"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
Gospel--"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).




Also: Let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel" (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 47).

"If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil" (Surah 5, Al maida)

: "There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, 'That is from Allah,' but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it!" (Surah 3, Ali 'Imran, verse 78).

[associate]

It's not just someone. It was God who died for our sins. Yes, I would send my son to a certain death with the knowledge that his sacrifice and resurrection would lead to the resurrection and eternal life for all my children who repent, take upon them the name of Christ and follow his teachings.



Jesus died for the sins of ALL mankind including those who lived before He did. The purpose of many of the rituals they did was to look forward to his eventual sacrifice for their sins and his victory over death. All those who have not repented of their sins are in a state we could call hell because they are spiritually separated from God. We are not all freed from sin nor its effects upon our lives. We must accept Jesus Christ and apply his atonement to our life. It is a lifelong process. We need to repent on a regular basis and recommit ourselves to Christ.

IMO, if you rob, rape and murder then you are going to hell. Christ's atonement is not a get out of jail free card. There must be a real change of heart, sincere repentance and an attempt at restoring what was stolen or damaged by your actions. The fact is when someone gets to the point where they are willing to murder someone in cold blood they are not likely to undergo the monstrous task of changing their life around. Now I am speaking of people who live in first world countries and not third world savages. I'm not saying it is impossible, only extremely unlikely IMHO.




God's omnipotence cannot satisfy the need for justice. When God's laws are broken there is a punishment for it. No amount of punishment can restore a once unblemished soul to perfection and thus qualify that person for life with God. If God tried to forgive sins by simply declaring them forgiven because he said so he would not be just and would be a partial God forgiving sins at his whim. To forgive sins to qualify people for heaven requires an Infinite and Eternal sacrifice. Only a sacrifice by one who is perfect and able to suffer for the sins of the world would be enough and only God himself could do this.

When each of us stands before God to be judged of our sins and our minds are opened where we are able to comprehend the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and view our own life each of us will be able to concede that God's judgments are just. Not because he says so or under threat of his omnipotence but because we will see our deficiencies when we stand before a righteous and holy God. Our sins will be a source of embarrassment for us as we will be flawed and our soul filthy compared to God. In such a state we would do anything to escape the discomfort of standing before God's presence. Yet, if we accept the atonement of Jesus Christ and follow the teachings and course he has laid out for us our sins will be forgiven and through his merits and mercy we can stand clean before God, being acceptable before him.

Those who reject Christ in this life or the next will ultimately come to understand his sacrifice and will understand that his judgments upon them are just. Most, IMO, will be rewarded with far more than they deserve after suffering for their sins and will receive a reward and a life suited for who they have become.



These Christians are somewhat misguided if they try this method of conversion. The point, IMHO, is to come to know Christ because he exists and has sacrificed for us so he may offer us a great gift. The invitation is to come to know Christ and to understand the nature of his atonement. The promise is this understanding through the Holy Ghost will bring peace in this life and hope for something better and eternal in the next plus much, much more.

You may die and suffer for your sins but the results will be undesirable because we are unable to perfect ourselves and justify ourselves so we can live with God and experience all he offers to those who come to know him. It's humility and meekness that are required not so called manliness.

Truth is every man is responsible for his own self and will be held accountable as an individual.

When people have been brought to account for their deeds, each person will be given the book that contains the record of all his deeds. The believer will be given his book in his right hand, as a sign of honour. He will be the one who is saved and happy on the Day of Resurrection. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

�Then as for him who will be given his Record in his right hand,

He surely, will receive an easy reckoning,

And will return to his family in joy!�

[al-Inshiqaaq 84:7-9]

�Then as for him who will be given his Record in his right hand will say: �Here! read my Record!

Surely, I did believe that I shall meet my Account!�

So he shall be in a life, well-pleasing.

In a lofty Paradise,

The fruits in bunches whereof will be low and near at hand.

Eat and drink at ease for that which you have sent on before you in days past!�

[al-Haaqqah 69:19-24]

But the kaafirs, hypocrites and followers of misguidance will be given their books in their left hands, from behind their backs. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

�But whosoever is given his Record behind his back,

He will invoke (for his) destruction,

And he shall enter a blazing Fire�

[al-Inshiqaaq 84:10-12]

�But as for him who will be given his Record in his left hand, will say: �I wish that I had not been given my Record!

And that I had never known how my Account is!

Would that it had been my end (death)!

My wealth has not availed me;

My power (and arguments to defend myself) have gone from me!�

(It will be said): �Seize him and fetter him;

Then throw him in the blazing Fire.

Then fasten him with a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits!��

[al-Haaqqah 69:25-32]

When the people have been given their books, it will be said to them:

�This Our Record speaks about you with truth. Verily, We were recording what you used to do (i.e. Our angels used to record your deeds)�

[al-Jaathiyah 45:29]

�Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day�

[al-Isra� 17:14]

With regard to the Balance:

The Balance will be set up to weigh people�s deeds. Al-Qurtubi said: �When the Reckoning is completed, then people�s deeds will be weighed, because the weighing has to do with reward and punishment. So it is apt that it should come after the Reckoning. The Reckoning is to evaluate the deeds, and the weighing is to determine the amount of reward or punishment.�

The texts indicate that the Balance is a real Balance, with two pans, in which people�s deeds will be weighed. It is a huge Balance, the size of which is known only to Allaah. The scholars differed as to whether it is one Balance in which people�s deeds will be weighed, or whether there are numerous Balances, so that each person will have his own Balance. Those who said that there will be numerous balances quote as evidence the fact that the word appears in plural form in some verses, for example (interpretation of the meaning):

�And We shall set up Balances of justice on the Day of Resurrection, then none will be dealt with unjustly in anything. And if there be the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it. And Sufficient are We to take account�

[al-Anbiya� 21:47]

Those who say that it will be one Balance quote as evidence the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): �The Balance will be set up on the Day of Resurrection, and if the heavens and the earth were to be weighed in it, it would be sufficient to carry them. And the angels will say, �O Lord, who is this for?� Allaah will say, �For whomsoever I will from among My slaves.�� (al-Silsilat al-Saheehah, 941). They interpret the verse in which the plural form is mentioned as referring to the large number of things to be weighed, namely words, deeds, records and people.

Allah the most high is also very merciful.

�Say: 'O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.� [Soorah az-Zumar (39): 53]

Example of Allah's mercy upon his servants:
Hadeeth 1: Umar Ibn al-Khattab (radhi allahu anhu) relates that some prisoners were brought before Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) and amongst them was a woman who was frantically searching for someone in the crowd. When she found a baby amongst the prisoners, she took it in her arms, cradled it next to her chest and suckled it. So Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: "Do you think that this woman would ever throw her child into the fire?" We said: 'By Allah, Never!' So he said: "Allah is more merciful to His believing servants than that mother could ever be to her child." [Saheeh al-Bukharee (10/426) and Saheeh Muslim (18/80)]

Hadeeth 2: Abu Hurayrah (radhi allahu anhu) relates that Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: "Indeed, before Allah created the creation, He decreed for Himself, 'Indeed My Mercy prevails over My Anger.� [Saheeh al-Bukharee and Saheeh Muslim (17/68)]

�And never give up hope of Allah's Mercy. Certainly, no one despairs of Allah's Mercy, except the people who disbelieve.� [Soorah Yusuf (12): 87]

Hope in the Mercy of Allah should be accompanied by regret and remorse of the heart upon the sins committed, sincerity, hastening in repentance and avoiding sins as is clearly manifest from the following verses of the Qur'aan. Allah says: �And whosoever does evil or wrongs himself but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.� [Soorah an-Nisa (4): 110]

�O you who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance.� [Soorah Tahrim (66): 8]

�And those who, when they have committed Fahisah (illegal acts) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their sins; - and none can forgive sins but Allah. And do not persist in what (wrong) they have done, while they know.� [Soorah al-Imran (3): 135]

�And of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil until death faces one of them and he says: 'Now I repent.'� [Soorah an-Nisa (4): 18]

The major sins are those acts which have been forbidden by Allah in the Qur�an and by His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in the Sunnah, and which have been made clear by the actions of the first righteous generation of Muslims, the Companions of the Prophet. Allah Almighty says: "If you avoid the major (part) of what you have been forbidden (to do), We will cancel out for you your (other) evil deeds and will admit you (to Paradise) with a noble entry" (An-Nisaa� 4:31)

In this verse, Allah Almighty has guaranteed the Garden of Paradise to those who avoid the major sins. And Allah Almighty also says: "Those who avoid the greatest of sins and indecencies, and forgive when they are angry" (Ash-Shura 42:37) and "Those who avoid the greatest sins and indecencies, except for oversights, (will find that) surely your Lord is ample in forgiveness�..." (An-Najm 53:32)

The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The five (daily) Prayers, Friday to Friday and Ramadan to Ramadan, make atonement for what has happened since the previous one, as long as major sins have been avoided." It is therefore very important to determine exactly what the greatest vices, technically called "the major sins" (kaba�ir), are in order that Muslims should avoid them.

So many other verses of mercifulness and forgiving from Allah in the Qu'ran. It's so straightforward. You Christian brothers make it so hard, throwing in opinions and what you think. In reality, we just need to look into the Quran and look at what Allah has spoken.

[sawoobley]

Wall of text

[lasher]

Haha there is no solid proof. When the Christian religion started up, they had books, but they were all destroyed. Everything was destroyed at the council of Nicaea. After that, nothing survived except certain books and some of those the church took out and put back in over the next thousand years. The book of Revelations is one of those books they took out and put back in, and took it out and took it back in. There are other books, when the Protestants broke off from the Catholic Church, that they threw out. Then there are more books that the orthodox have. Protestants have 66 books, Catholic 73 books, and Orthodox 78 books. Tell me which one is right? And then when you look at the verses, they don’t match.

The council of Nicea changed so much. The year was 325 A.D. according to the Roman calendar. A council was convened by order of Constantine, the Roman emperor. He had been a leader in the cult known as Sol Invictus (Invincible Sun) and now wanted to unite the Christian sects in the empire under his existing church; the Universal Church of Rome. Many changes to the religion of Christianity were about to take place at that council,


So what you there saying is baseless and has no argument. Christianity was changed forever after nicea. Today you can find thousands of versions of the bible suiting different peoples.

another idiot.

hrr durrr Nicaea! Hurr durrr Constantine!

Dip**** muslims, dime a dozen these days.

1. NO, everything wasn't destroyed at Nicaea. Nothing was destroyed at Nicaea. Nicaea was called to address the Arian heresy, that's it. Nothing more.

2. NO, Nicaea had NOTHING to do with the biblical canon.

3. Orthodox do not have 78 books. One specific branch of orthodox, ethiopian, considers their church manuals as scripture. Other that that, orthdox and catholic completely agree on canon. Protestants are irrelevant.

4. YES, the verse do match. Stop talking shyt you clown. What verses don't match?

including:

Formulation for wording concerning the Trinity based on Anthanias Problem?
Changing Verses of Bible No they didn't
Eliminating certain verses and books from the Bible No they didn't
Declaring Arian's "unitarian" (belief in the Unity of God) as heresy it was a heresy, mad?
Changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday lol no it didn't
Changing the date of Jesus' birthday to December 25th No it didn't
Introduction of Easter (pagan worship called "Feast of Ishtar") No, it fixed the DATE of easter. It did not "introduce" anything
Church of Roman "officially" became the "Universal Church of the Holy Roman Empire" (the word 'Catholic' means 'universal' NO, ROME ALREADY WAS THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH

I am so sick of you idiots talking so much fking crap when you are competently historically illiterate.

[confuoco]

Other that that, orthdox and catholic completely agree on canon. Protestants are irrelevant.

Not really, considering our judgment is confirmed by sources like Athanasius, Jerome, Gregory, Bede, Ambrose, William of Ockham, Cardinal Cajetan & the Glossa Ordinaria. We still read the apocrypha, just not as scripture.

[lasher]

Not really, considering our judgment is confirmed by sources like Athanasius, Jerome, Gregory, Bede, Ambrose, William of Ockham, Cardinal Cajetan & the Glossa Ordinaria. We still read the apocrypha, just not as scripture.

still irrelephant. Septuagint > masoretic.

And William of Ockham pretty much doomed western civilization. I'd avoid invoking his name for support.

[homicidal_misc]

Lasher dropping serious bombs lately. I can tell your patience is running thin with the BS lol.

[confuoco]

still irrelephant. Septuagint > masoretic.

And William of Ockham pretty much doomed western civilization. I'd avoid invoking his name for support.

Who said we aren't relying on the septuagint? The apocrypha is considered the "septuagintal plus" - not integral to the Septuagint. You could easily remove Ockham without damaging the argument.

The apocrypha wasn't declared canonical until the Council of Trent in 1546...a bit late to the game.